Government Spying on Millions (Verizon)

[Whiskeyjack]

From TAC-- Justin Amash: "Snowden Is a Whistleblower".

According to a Quinnipiac poll released last Thursday, a majority of U.S. voters agree with Amash’s recent comments: 55% percent of respondents say Snowden is “more a whistleblower” than traitor, 34% “more a traitor.”

Particularly interesting is the shift in Amash’s own party that these polls have highlighted. As the Wall Street Journal noted, the Republican demographic has been one of the most drastically changing in recent years. In 2010, 72% of Republicans said counterterrorism did not go far enough, which had fallen to 46% by this summer. And according to last week’s poll, Republicans almost mirror national sentiment: 51% of Republicans label Snowden a whistleblower.

 

[BobD]

From TAC-- Justin Amash: "Snowden Is a Whistleblower".

At one point a vast majority of people thought the world was flat.

 

[kmoose]

From TAC-- Justin Amash: "Snowden Is a Whistleblower".

But here's the thing that people are ignoring...........

There are procedures in place, to become a whistleblower, and none of those procedures involve newspapers, money from Wikileaks, flights to Asia, or asylum in Russia. If Snowden wanted whistleblower protection, then he should have gone through the whistleblower process.

 

[Buster Bluth]

But here's the thing that people are ignoring...........

There are procedures in place, to become a whistleblower, and none of those procedures involve newspapers, money from Wikileaks, flights to Asia, or asylum in Russia. If Snowden wanted whistleblower protection, then he should have gone through the whistleblower process.

So the same government that lies to Americans about spying on them sets up the process needed for someone to get protection from them (possibly the death penalty), and you think someone who has seen the system is going to trust that? It doesn't take a man in Snowden's position to realize there has basically been a coup in this country and the military-industrial complex runs the show.

"Ooooh Buster you're crazy! We elected a guy who promised to shut down Guantanamo, was against the Iraqi surge and wouldn't do the same in Afghanistan, promised to try Al-Qaeda conspirators in US courts not military ones, thought Bush trampled on the US Constitution so he wouldn't do the same sense he was a Constitutional Law professor and all...and he did all of that!

Uh huh.

 

[kmoose]

So the same government that lies to Americans about spying on them sets up the process needed for someone to get protection from them (possibly the death penalty), and you think someone who has seen the system is going to trust that? It doesn't take a man in Snowden's position to realize there has basically been a coup in this country and the military-industrial complex runs the show.

The point is that all of the protections set up for whistleblowers are predicated on the said whistleblower following established procedures. If you don't follow those procedures, then you cannot claim whistleblower status, and you are therefore entitled to none of those protections.

 

[BobD]

Defending an assclown that went to Russia with American secrets.

 

[Buster Bluth]

The point is that all of the protections set up for whistleblowers are predicated on the said whistleblower following established procedures. If you don't follow those procedures, then you cannot claim whistleblower status, and you are therefore entitled to none of those protections.

Like they aren't set up so the government sees you coming ten miles away. "Oops, I'm sorry Mrs. Snowden, we don't know what happened to your son. He just didn't show up for work one day!"

 

[kmoose]

Like they aren't set up so the government sees you coming ten miles away. "Oops, I'm sorry Mrs. Snowden, we don't know what happened to your son. He just didn't show up for work one day!"

If that's all the faith you have in the US government, then why do you choose to live here? I'm not suggesting that you are not welcome to live in the US, I'm just wondering why you would live under a government that would just indiscriminately kill off a government worker who had some information that could make it look bad? I think you should remember that movies are just fiction.

 

[Buster Bluth]

If that's all the faith you have in the US government, then why do you choose to live here? I'm not suggesting that you are not welcome to live in the US, I'm just wondering why you would live under a government that would just indiscriminately kill off a government worker who had some information that could make it look bad? I think you should remember that movies are just fiction.

Ummm you haven't read a whole lot of history have you? This country once gave dozens of people syphilis and then watched them die over the course of a few decades, for research. The government is people, and people are scum.

I mean come on this country once toppled a country for a banana corporation, and we just got done with toppling a country for oil and arms corporations. You don't think they'd off a guy for blowing the whistle here? Snowden clearly felt they could do that.

Of course, because you say that the government would be noble and assist the investigation into PRISM, what happened during Iran-Contra? Ooooh that's right, John Poindexter fell on his sword, was convicted of seven felonies of obstructing Congressional investigations into the secret programs the Pentagon was running, and then got off on a technicality. But wait, there's more. In January of 2002 he shows up once again running a DARPA office and suggested a little something called the "Total Information Awareness," which was publicized in 2003 and Congress defunded it. What happened...it went underground and became PRISM.

Iran-Contra folk started PRISM. That's your government's noble crusade at work. They aren't working for you and me, that's for sure.

 

[kmoose]

Ummm you haven't read a whole lot of history have you? This country once gave dozens of people syphilis and then watched them die over the course of a few decades, for research. The government is people, and people are scum.

I mean come on this country once toppled a country for a banana corporation, and we just got done with toppling a country for oil and arms corporations. You don't think they'd off a guy for blowing the whistle here? Snowden clearly felt they could do that.

Of course, because you say that the government would be noble and assist the investigation into PRISM, what happened during Iran-Contra? Ooooh that's right, John Poindexter fell on his sword, was convicted of seven felonies of obstructing Congressional investigations into the secret programs the Pentagon was running, and then got off on a technicality. But wait, there's more. In January of 2002 he shows up once again running a DARPA office and suggested a little something called the "Total Information Awareness," which was publicized in 2003 and Congress defunded it. What happened...it went underground and became PRISM.

Iran-Contra folk started PRISM. That's your government's noble crusade at work. They aren't working for you and me, that's for sure.

I suggest that you google the following names, if you really believe that the government is likely to kill you for following the whistleblower protocol:

Mark Klein
Karen Kwiatkowski
Samuel Provance
Russ Tice

 

[T Town Tommy]

And yet we still can't find out the truth about the IRS targeting groups for political purposes or what really happened in Bengazi? Not that the average thinking American doesn't already know but the mainstream liberal media won't report.

The history of most President's and their "legacy" usually doesn't start showing up for at least a decade after they leave office. I can't wait to read all the BS our current Commander in Chief has done. It will no doubt be right there with Nixon and Carter's of my lifetime.

 

[dshans]

The point is that all of the protections set up for whistleblowers are predicated on the said whistleblower following established procedures. If you don't follow those procedures, then you cannot claim whistleblower status, and you are therefore entitled to none of those protections.

Hmmmmm ... why does "Catch 22" immediately come to mind?

 

[Buster Bluth]

I suggest that you google the following names, if you really believe that the government is likely to kill you for following the whistleblower protocol:

Mark Klein
Karen Kwiatkowski
Samuel Provance
Russ Tice

Uh huh. And, this:

» Why Didn’t Snowden Go through “Proper Channelsâ€� to Blow the Whistle? Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Ex-spy 'Falcon': U.S. likes Snowden in Russia - CNN.com

 

[Buster Bluth]

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/08/dea-and-nsa-team-intelligence-laundering

Sooo turns out the DEA and IRS are using PRISM for other purposes? Shocking.

Please present a defense for this, Bobd.

 

[BobD]

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/08/dea-and-nsa-team-intelligence-laundering

Sooo turns out the DEA and IRS are using PRISM for other purposes? Shocking.

Please present a defense for this, Bobd.

Don't be a tax cheat or drug smuggler.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Don't be a tax cheat or drug smuggler.

Someone is going to really get ****ed up over this that isn't a tax cheat or drug smugger because their metrics are off and the people running this are dumb shiits; and,

Don't you ever have a problem with the entire lack of integrity that your government shows in its daily operations? Because you saw that they were making up cover lies, didn't you? So doesn't that prove they knew what they were doing was wrong? Malice, I think they call it?

(People with that kind of problem, rarely limit their badness to one arena.)

 

[Buster Bluth]

Don't be a tax cheat or drug smuggler.

Exactly what I was fearing you'd say.

BobD I love ya and all, but you've gone far past the point of scaring me. Your disregard for our rights basically labels you a fascist in my book. Apathy in this matter makes my blood boil.

 

[Buster Bluth]

I find it especially disturbing if you lived during the Nixon administration and think that this sort of power won't lead to huge abuses.

 

[BobD]

Jesus, some of you should stop wasting your time posting here and flee the country immediately before our terribly corrupt government gets you.....but you won't. Sitting around and complaining about progress is too much fun for you. Please find one average Joe citizen that's been impacted by any of this.

 

[BobD]

Exactly what I was fearing you'd say.

BobD I love ya and all, but you've gone far past the point of scaring me. Your disregard for our rights basically labels you a fascist in my book. Apathy in this matter makes my blood boil.

I like you too. Just relax and don't buy into conspiracy theories. I've said it before....If our government wasn't using its abilities, folks would be screaming negligence.

 

[kmoose]

Uh huh. And, this:

» Why Didn’t Snowden Go through “Proper Channelsâ€� to Blow the Whistle? Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

Tell me which one of these people is dead, again?

 

[Buster Bluth]

Jesus, some of you should stop wasting your time posting here and flee the country immediately before our terribly corrupt government gets you.....but you won't. Sitting around and complaining about progress is too much fun for you. Please find one average Joe citizen that's been impacted by any of this.

You call this PROGRESS?!?

Let me clue you on why this hasn't been ruled unconstitutional. For the Supreme Court to hear a case someone has to sue NSA over this and prove their rights have been encroached upon. Now, tell me exactly how someone is supposed to do that when the program is classified? It's literally above the law, you couldn't investigate it if you wanted to see if you've been ****ed. They have a file on every electronic communication you've ever made and they'll use it against you and hide it under "confidential informant," (see: DEA/IRS). You don't even have the ability to claim it should be thrown out because it's above what even the judge can see!

How you can't see that is beyond me.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Tell me which one of these people is dead, again?

Hey I'm merely referring to Snowden himself, you know the guy who had access to the info, on his fear of the CIA making people disappear. At a very minimum, its hyperbole.

Did the article not have a point on the initial discussion of whistleblowing obstacles?

 

[Buster Bluth]

I like you too. Just relax and don't buy into conspiracy theories. I've said it before....If our government wasn't using its abilities, folks would be screaming negligence.

Telling opponents to leave the country and calling them conspiracy theorists are two sure signs of a weak argument. Not to mention the first is something a fascist would say. "Well we, the government, won't let this program have it's day in court, so if you don't like it leave the country. OH BUT BY THE WAY WE RECORD WHAT YOU DO ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD."

 

[kmoose]

Hey I'm merely referring to Snowden himself, you know the guy who had access to the info, on his fear of the CIA making people disappear. At a very minimum, its hyperbole.

Did the article not have a point on the initial discussion of whistleblowing obstacles?

It has some anecdotal bearing, perhaps. But those are only a few stories. And those stories are not complete. What are those folks doing now? Did they go on to successful careers with other agencies and/or companies? If so, then the end result doesn't seem so bad, does it? But again......... it seems like a stretch, to believe that Snowden had a reasonable worry about the CIA trying to kill him, when so many other National Security whistleblowers are still alive. It seems to me that he just threw that out there, to cover his cowardly tracks.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Even Jay Leno's getting on-board:

"I was going to start off tonight with an Obama joke, but I don't want to get audited by the IRS."

On NSA surveillance: "We wanted a president who listens to all Americans - now we have one."

On a new IRS commissioner: "He's called 'acting commissioner' because he has to act like the scandal doesn't involve the White House."

On closing the Guantanamo prison for terrorists: "If he really wants to close it, turn it into a government-funded solar power company. The doors will be shut in a month."

Concerning the Benghazi , Associated Press, and IRS scandals: "Remember in the old days when President Obama's biggest embarrassment was Joe Biden?"

On Obama saying he didn't know about the IRS scandal: "He was too busy not knowing anything about Benghazi to not know anything about the IRS."

"The White House has a new slogan about Benghazi : Hope and change the subject."

"It's casual Friday, which means that at the White House, they're casually going through everybody's phone calls and records."

"It is not looking good for President Obama. Today his teleprompter took the fifth."

"Fox News has changed its slogan from 'Fair and Balanced' to 'See, I told you so!'"

"These White House scandals are not going away anytime soon. People in Kenya are now saying he's 100 percent American. That's how bad it's gotten."

On Obama's commencement address: "He told the young graduates their future is bright unless, of course, they want jobs."

On a Chicago man who set a record for riding a Ferris wheel: "The only other way to go around and around in a circle that many times is to read the official report on Benghazi ."

On White House claims of ignorance on the scandals: "They took 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' out of the Pentagon and moved it into the White House."

 

[Buster Bluth]

It has some anecdotal bearing, perhaps. But those are only a few stories. And those stories are not complete. What are those folks doing now? Did they go on to successful careers with other agencies and/or companies? If so, then the end result doesn't seem so bad, does it? But again......... it seems like a stretch, to believe that Snowden had a reasonable worry about the CIA trying to kill him, when so many other National Security whistleblowers are still alive. It seems to me that he just threw that out there, to cover his cowardly tracks.

How can you call someone a coward for having the balls to give up their ~$200,000/yr job IN HAWAII to become enemy #1 for the NSA/CIA/FBI/etc and barred from seeing your family/friends or even stepping foot in your own country....or any country allied to it....ever. again.

Yeah some coward.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

How can you call someone a coward for having the balls to give up their ~$200,000/yr job IN HAWAII to become enemy #1 for the NSA/CIA/FBI/etc and barred from seeing your family/friends or even stepping foot in your own country....or any country allied to it....ever. again.

Yeah some coward.

I agree on this one. On the one hand, Bradley Manning seemed more just like some guy with nothing to lose and mad at the gov't, so he just leaked as much info as he could. Sort of like a crazy, jealous ex-wife who just wants to destroy as much as possible.

Snowden, by contrast, had a lot to lose and specifically only leaked information concerning something he believed was illegal and immoral. (Think about it -- he could have leaked the whole world to wikileaks, and instead gave just the NSA snooping program to a journalist). And he's basically in a living hell now because of it.

 

[kmoose]

How can you call someone a coward for having the balls to give up their ~$200,000/yr job IN HAWAII to become enemy #1 for the NSA/CIA/FBI/etc and barred from seeing your family/friends or even stepping foot in your own country....or any country allied to it....ever. again.

Yeah some coward.

In my opinion, he's a coward for not following the whistleblower protocols. In the meantime, I'm sure he's incredibly disappointed about not being able to reenter the country he betrayed.