George Zimmerman Trial

[irishpat183]

IrishPat, as hard as it might be for you to understand, some people think of things only in terms of, "white, black, and Hispanic." They are in a distinct minority, and they are found in each racial group.

In my experience, there are more people in a second group, one that has a membership that can't understand why people think that way. There are more that can't understand thinking that way, than think that way.

The reason this is a national case is because it is because it took so long for authorities to charge GZ.

The reason there is a problem with this case, is because of a third group, those that think everyone (else) breaks things down on a racial basis, and that is the core reason there is so much strife. When in reality, this case is not about race at all, (even though profiling took place.)

Anyone who has a homeowner association that would let an untrained civilian patrol with a gun, should be sued out of existence, one member at a time. THAT IS THE ISSUE; People with property regarding their property as more important than human life.

People get the real reason wrong for things most of the time. And they surely have a lot of help!

I agree with a lot of this. But I disagree that this case has nothing to do with race. If you need proof of that, just wait until the verdict is read and you see clips of black people celebrating/rioting and white people celebrating/rioting. Watch. It'll be OJ 2.0. Which is sad.

Had a black man shot Trayvon...you think that activists would be out there screaming for justice? You think Obama makes the comment about it? You think There are retaliation crimes? Not a chance in hell.

And while I disagree with some people's value on personal things...the right to DEFEND ones home and property, I don't disagree with. And it's really not about your things...when someone breaks into your home, it's about safety and protecting your family.

And why do you not call out the crimnal as valuing property that ISN'T his, as more important than his OWN life??!!?!?!? THAT IS THE QUESTION SOCIETY SHOULD BE ASKING.

(But I do understand your point, and respect your opinion)

 

[Cackalacky]

But what if most the people in his neighborhood (and I don't know the area) in the streets at night are black people?

I mean, in fear of being labled a "profiler" you just don't call the cops anymore if you see something suspicious?

Don't you see where this is headed? We're literally letting polical correctness dictate how we utilize our public servants.

That's assuming a big what if. However, a pattern of behavior can be determined from the previous calls. The pattern the prosecutor wants to show is that GZ became more aggressive with each failed call because of the "these *******s are always getting away" comment. The judge has already said the court will not allow "racial profiling" to be used in any context during the trial, so this whole race point is moot at the moment. It has not been determined if the jury will be able to hear the previous calls either.

As far as the community goes, I have read that it is a mixed ethnicity neighborhood. My neighborhood is 70% white, and 10% black , Hispanic, and Asian. It is terribly difficult to profile anyone in my neighborhood.

And no I don't see that political correctness is directing this. The judge has been fairly cognizant of the racial implications and I think is doing an admirable job so far of not allowing "race" to dictate the evidence and the trial.

George Zimmerman dictated who got involved when he chose to follow TM, although I can say I am not quite sure what you are getting at in your last sentence.

 

[NDohio]

But what if most the people in his neighborhood (and I don't know the area) in the streets at night are black people?

I mean, in fear of being labled a "profiler" you just don't call the cops anymore if you see something suspicious?

Don't you see where this is headed? We're literally letting polical correctness dictate how we utilize our public servants.

You call the cops and allow them to do their job.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

If someone breaks into my home, I will very, very quickly start to value my property more than his "human life". And the law of every state supports that.

 

[irishpat183]

That's assuming a big what if. However, a pattern of behavior can be determined from the previous calls. The pattern the prosecutor wants to show is that GZ became more aggressive with each failed call because of the "these *******s are always getting away" comment. The judge has already said the court will not allow "racial profiling" to be used in any context during the trial, so this whole race point is moot at the moment. It has not been determined if the jury will be able to hear the previous calls either.

As far as the community goes, I have read that it is a mixed ethnicity neighborhood.
And no I don't see that political correctness is directing this. The judge has been fairly cognizant of the racial implications and I think is doing an admirable job so far of not allowing "race" to dictate the evidence and the trial.

George Zimmerman dictated who got involved when he chose to follow TM. He did not wait for the police.

...because waiting for police isn't always the best course of action. And when GZ followed TM, who says he was looking for a fight? Maybe he wanted to find out who he was and why he was in GZ's hood??? Maybe that pissed off TM and he reacted?

How is it so far fetched that TM was the aggressor? Have you tried talking to a teenager these days? LOL

And I'd be pissed too if I was calling police and they never caught the a$$holes that were robbing houses. Wouldn't you?!?!? What if YOUR house was next?

Do we not have a resposiblity to our neighbors to report suspicious behaivor?

 

[irishpat183]

You call the cops and allow them to do their job.

He did. Many times. And, in his opinion, they weren't doing their jobs.

So there is that angle. A frustration with police may have forced his hand, no?

 

[Cackalacky]

He did. Many times. And, in his opinion, they weren't doing their jobs.

So there is that angle. A frustration with police may have forced his hand, no?

So he is a vigilante then?

 

[irishpat183]

If someone breaks into my home, I will very, very quickly start to value my property more than his "human life". And the law of every state supports that.

I just don't understand that...It's like "don't shoot me, because I'm worth more than your stuff, but I'm gonna take it anyway".


LOL. If you, Mr Criminal, really believed that, you wouldn't be standing in my living room with a red dot on your chest in the first place.


But I think I get what bogs is saying...In general, we don't value life and put a premium on "stuff"...therefore, too many people get killed over stupid things (like the guy that got gunned down for LeBron's shoes)

 

[irishpat183]

So he is a vigilante then?

Could be.

But that doesn't mean he didn't have the right to patrol his neighborhood if he felt like it. And it doesn't diminsh the fact that he was catching an asswhooping and had to defend himself.

Hell, police encourage vigilantisim...Citizens arrest?

 

[Cackalacky]

..because waiting for police isn't always the best course of action. And when GZ followed TM, who says he was looking for a fight? Maybe he wanted to find out who he was and why he was in GZ's hood??? Maybe that pissed off TM and he reacted?

plausible. I have conceded that earlier. i would be pissed off/scared too if I was not doing anything and an unknown man was following me.

How is it so far fetched that TM was the aggressor? Have you tried talking to a teenager these days? LOL

as above, its plausible TM was a wiseass, but this is something we will never know.

And I'd be pissed too if I was calling police and they never caught the a$$holes that were robbing houses. Wouldn't you?!?!? What if YOUR house was next?

What if what if. Luckily I have two trained 100 lb dogs that will eat anyone that gets 1 foot inside my house so I don't have to worry about that. That does not excuse vigilante attitudes in the neighborhood watch.

Do we not have a resposiblity to our neighbors to report suspicious behaivor?

Yes we have a responsibility. I refuse to act like the outside world is Thunderdome though.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

...How is it so far fetched that TM was the aggressor?...

I don't think it's too far-fetched, but for Zimmerman's self-defense purposes it might not matter.

Say, for example, that Zimmerman initially grabbed Martin by the arm, to hold him until the police came, or question him, or whatever. If Martin escalates the conflict by repeatedly punching Zimmerman and slamming his head into the sidewalk (or any other act that a reasonable person would interpret as putting them in serious risk of substantial bodily harm) then Zimmerman is not guilty of a crime in shooting Martin in response to this reasonably-preceived threat.

 

[Cackalacky]

Could be.

But that doesn't mean he didn't have the right to patrol his neighborhood if he felt like it. And it doesn't diminsh the fact that he was catching an asswhooping and had to defend himself.

Hell, police encourage vigilantisim...Citizens arrest?

This is where you and I will differ. There is a definite difference in neighborhood watch and vigilantism. Sucks for him he chose the latter. I will wait for the forensic evidence to be provided before I decide he got his *** kicked and needed self defense. That is a big question.
And no, officer's of the law do not encourage vigilantes. Well maybe in texas they do..

 

[irishpat183]

I don't think it's too far-fetched, but for Zimmerman's self-defense purposes it might not matter.

Say, for example, that Zimmerman initially grabbed Martin by the arm, to hold him until the police came, or question him, or whatever. If Martin escalates the conflict by repeatedly punching Zimmerman and slamming his head into the sidewalk (or any other act that a reasonable person would interpret as putting them in serious risk of substantial bodily harm) then Zimmerman is not guilty of a crime in shooting Martin in response to this reasonably-preceived threat.

but...but...but Zimmerman followed him!

We only know what Zimmerman tells us. Anything other than that is just assumptions based on character.

So the entire case for TM is to make GZ look like some renegade...not actually find out what really happened.

 

[Cackalacky]

but...but...but Zimmerman followed him!

We only know what Zimmerman tells us. Anything other than that is just assumptions based on character.

So the entire case for TM is to make GZ look like some renegade...not actually find out what really happened.

LOL. WTF have you been arguing for over the last two pages then.

 

[FLDomer]

This is where you and I will differ. There is a definite difference in neighborhood watch and vigilantism. Sucks for him he chose the latter. I will wait for the forensic evidence to be provided before I decide he got his *** kicked and needed self defense. That is a big question.
And no, officer's of the law do not encourage vigilantes. Well maybe in texas they do..

Not publicly

 

[irishpat183]

This is where you and I will differ. There is a definite difference in neighborhood watch and vigilantism. Sucks for him he chose the latter. I will wait for the forensic evidence to be provided before I decide he got his *** kicked and needed self defense. That is a big question.
And no, officer's of the law do not encourage vigilantes. Well maybe in texas they do..

It's pretty well known that TM was beating on GZ (the facial wounds and the angle of the gun shot)

 

[irishpat183]

LOL. WTF have you been arguing for over the last two pages then.

****, I never know what i'm arguing. I just like to do it. LOL


I'm saying that what's been presented, the facts, don't tell me that Zimmerman did anything wrong UNLESS something has been left out. The only guy alive that knows what happened is GZ.

Why would we not believe him? He's been pretty forthcoming about admitting things

 

[Cackalacky]

****, I never know what i'm arguing. I just like to do it. LOL

LOLOLOLOLOO. You're crazy bro.

I'm saying that what's been presented, the facts, don't tell me that Zimmerman did anything wrong UNLESS something has been left out. The only guy alive that knows what happened is GZ.

Yeah that's a big stinker when the other side of the story is dead.

Why would we not believe him? He's been pretty forthcoming about admitting things

He will not take the stand in court. His attorney will not go the Stand Your Ground route although he had every right to apparently. His accounts of the night are muddled as Bogs has stated....I would not say he has been totally forthcoming. I will give him credit for calling 911 and admitting to shooting TM. The prosecutor has chosen to go after 2nd degree murder. It is up to him to prove that or GZ walks. Ballzy.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Martin's girlfriend is also going to testify as to what Martin said while on the phone.

I think a lot of that could be hearsay, depending on the testimony, but I guess that's why they play the games.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

...He will not take the stand in court...Ballzy.

I will bet you every vbuck I ever get that he takes the stand.

 

[Cackalacky]

His girlfriend is also going to testify as to what Martin said while on the phone.

I think a lot of that could be hearsay, depending on the testimony, but I guess that's why they play the games.

I don't think it can be hearsay if she is reporting what she heard as she could also provide personal knowledge of things going on in the background or other such evidence that will be just as acceptable as the other witnesses.

 

[irishpat183]

I will bet you every vbuck I ever get that he takes the stand.

I think so too.....I know if I was on trial for something like this, my *** would be up there defending myself.

And while the girlfriend will tesify, stuff didn't go down until AFTER they hung up. I mean, we all bascially know what happened up until that point from Zimmerman's 911 call...

 

[irishpat183]

I don't think it can be hearsay if she is reporting what she heard as she could also provide personal knowledge of things going on in the background or other such evidence that will be just as acceptable as the other witnesses.

What about the eyewitness that saw TM on top of Zimmerman? Where is that neighbor at?

 

[Cackalacky]

I will bet you every vbuck I ever get that he takes the stand.

"..The defense doesn't have to present any evidence, any piece of paper, any witness including the defendant. It is all up to whether or not the State can prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt," he said. "In this case, they have to disprove self-defense beyond a reasonable doubt. So if they get past all of that, such that we decide to put some witnesses on, we'll decide whether or not George should take the stand."
He noted that Zimmerman has already given several voluntary statements to police, "so all of that information is already out there."

Are you still willing to believe the prosecutors will get that far?

Lawyers have no plans for George Zimmerman to take the stand in Trayvon Martin murder trial

 

[Cackalacky]

What about the eyewitness that saw TM on top of Zimmerman? Where is that neighbor at?

I assume they may allow witnesses. It depends on the judge.

 

[FLDomer]

I assume they may allow witnesses. It depends on the judge.

While I was working out they had the trial on TV and noticed they had a "witness" on the stand, (at least thats what the caption said, i was listening to yani getting my swoll on) So it appeals they are allowing witnesses, since I witnessed it with my eyes but dont have a link to provide, lol

 

[Cackalacky]

While I was working out they had the trial on TV and noticed they had a "witness" on the stand, (at least thats what the caption said) So it appeals they are allowing witness, since I witnessed it with my eyes but dont have a link to provide, lol

Hahaha. You never know. I am just getting twitter updates and regurgitating unverified knowledge.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

I don't think it can be hearsay if she is reporting what she heard as she could also provide personal knowledge of things going on in the background or other such evidence that will be just as acceptable as the other witnesses.

No, it's hearsay. All that other stuff you mention is irrelevant under the Florida Rules of Evidence.

The only exceptions I can think of that could apply to her conversation would be a Present Sense Impression or a Dying Declaration.

 

[Cackalacky]

No, it's hearsay. All that other stuff you mention is irrelevant under the Florida Rules of Evidence.

The only exceptions I can think of that could apply to her conversation would be a Present Sense Impression or a Dying Declaration.

Interesting. Thanks.

 

[Cackalacky]

Wait a second IrishHoustonian, I see where you don't have any vbucks.... that's messed up.