irishpat183
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Opinions/Discussions on Guns
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kmoose
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The problem with this is...... he stopped the beating, regardless. The concealed carry only kept him from having a fight of his own. I mean, that is significant. But it's not like he was confronted with some drug crazed lunatic, and he had to shoot him to save the girl's life. The handgun only kept a fist fight from taking place.
irishpat183
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Ok......
FLDomer
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Wow...I don't know where to begin and am to busy right at the moment to go into it.
irishpat183
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But they never help in home defense situtions......
They Never Learn: Burglar Breaks Into Texas Home, Leaves With Gunshot Wounds Instead of Loot | Video | TheBlaze.com
They Never Learn: Burglar Breaks Into Texas Home, Leaves With Gunshot Wounds Instead of Loot | Video | TheBlaze.com
Polish Leppy 22
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If I were a burglar, the last place I would target is a gun owning home in Texas.
DSully1995
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Agree, itd be an insult to your marines to say he couldnt beat the **** out of that guy without a gun
DSully1995
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Bit too much opinion passed on as fact. I still dont understand why gun rights activist always think people are coming for theyre guns.
FLDomer
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Originally Posted by kmoose
The problem with this is...... he stopped the beating, regardless. The concealed carry only kept him from having a fight of his own. I mean, that is significant. But it's not like he was confronted with some drug crazed lunatic, and he had to shoot him to save the girl's life. The handgun only kept a fist fight from taking place.
So the Marine was a wimp for drawing his weapon? Why fight fair when you can fight to win, this wasn't a school yard fight. This Marine used his weapon to prevent further bodily harm to the woman (or possibly worse) and to prevent any bodily harm to himself, how is this not a good thing or that big of a deal, I bet the woman getting the **** kicked out of her would disagree. Just because he was a Marine does not make him invincible in hand to hand combat.
The problem with this is...... he stopped the beating, regardless. The concealed carry only kept him from having a fight of his own. I mean, that is significant. But it's not like he was confronted with some drug crazed lunatic, and he had to shoot him to save the girl's life. The handgun only kept a fist fight from taking place.
So the Marine was a wimp for drawing his weapon? Why fight fair when you can fight to win, this wasn't a school yard fight. This Marine used his weapon to prevent further bodily harm to the woman (or possibly worse) and to prevent any bodily harm to himself, how is this not a good thing or that big of a deal, I bet the woman getting the **** kicked out of her would disagree. Just because he was a Marine does not make him invincible in hand to hand combat.
DSully1995
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GUNS DONT SAVE PEOPLE, PEOPLE SAVE PEOPLE GOES BOTH WAY I GUESS
FLDomer
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WHY THE CAPS? People with guns can tilt the field in their favor, especially good people.
DSully1995
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Yes, of course but then so can all people, including "bad" people
FLDomer
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Yep and my point is how is it making it harder for the good guy to have that game changer a good thing??
DSully1995
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Well your assuming here that the "bad" guy will get a gun easily without a problem, which I do doubt
ACamp1900
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In the past I considered my views on gun control to be more liberal... I wanted waiting periods and all weapons to be reg'd... other things as well... but all of a sudden I am nowhere near in line with liberal thought, banning guns across the board and making so that people obeying the law either can't have weapons or can only have five bullets per weapon is way too far for me...
and the above is why I feel that way... the people committing crimes with these weapons are CRIMINALS... what is going to stop them from getting a gun illegally??? nothing. Where people like myself can't appropriately defend my family against people like that because new restrictions? I personally have trouble supporting that.
GoIrish41
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Would he not have done anything about the man kicking the woman if he didn't have a carry permit?
FLDomer
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Doubt what you want but I have seen first hand the "bad" will obtain it if he wants it and if a "good" he has to jump through the hoops and may not even be able to get certain guns. Booze was made illegal too at one time in this country and all it did was fuel crime and if someone wanted to obtain it illegally they could.
FLDomer
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I do not know, I am not him, but if he had he ran the risk of the situation having two victims of assault. He went into dangerous situation using his advantages and it worked out well.
ACamp1900
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It's fairly easy to get a gun through non-legal channels NOW... when they are all illgeal and enforcement is strecthed much further you think it would be harder????
DSully1995
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Well, enforcement is non existant, the ATP doesnt do anything, how would you sir obtain this gun? have you got contacts available?
ACamp1900
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1.) If they do nothing now how are they going to flip a switch and increase enforcement 10 fold... which MIGHT be enough to show a little impact...
2.) In all honesty, yes, i could get a gun illegally tomorrow if i had the desire, and the cash,... and i'm not special in that regard.
GoIrish41
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If the guy was driving home from a round of golf and pulled an 8-iron out of his bag and used that to fend off the guy beating a woman, do you think the headline would have been golfer saves woman's life? What about a guy walking his Golden Retriever and he ordered the dog to attack? A plummer might have pulled a wrench out of his toolbox before approaching the violent offender. Or if the Marine was just out for a walk and didn't have anything to help him I suspect he would have stepped in anyway. People who advocate for gun ownership will make a big deal about the fact that the guy has a gun permit, but the real story is that most people would have done the same thing whether they had a gun or didn't.
ACamp1900
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I disagree... In fact it seems you just gave a bunch of hypotheticals that did not occur and stated they were the real story over a situation that did in fact occur...
I believe most people would have ignored the whole thing or screamed for someone else to help, weapon or no weapon sadly... I have read many articles over the years were someone was hurt or killed while shouting for help and many people in ear shot did nothing, not even dial 911 so someone else can step in. Growing up in a bad area my experience is the same. This of course goes much more to human nature than to gun laws, but yeah I do not expect the average person to help when help is needed, at all.
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I'm not really invested in this argument and am pretty ambivalent.... but the article does state pretty clearly that the attacker was a "big guy" relative to the guy who stopped him... and I think 99/100 times a smaller guy driving around at 4 AM sees a bigger guy beating someone to death they aren't going to hop out of their car and try to stop them. That's a recipe for getting your *** kicked/killed. He also doesn't know at the time he is driving by whether the attacker is armed... with a knife, gun, or any other type of weapon. Having the gun and the training gave him the ability to stop the attack and call the authorities... otherwise chances are he never gets out of his car, calls the cops, and who knows if they get there in time.
So let's not trivialize how big of a role the gun played in this one anecdotal situation in saving this woman's life. On a larger scale, my issue with the gun control debate is that it always devolves into an argument of anecdotes. There are dozens of examples of guns saving lives/protecting people. And there are dozens of examples of guns doing harm.
The positions people should be debating are more philosophical than empirical... which is borderline impossible on the internet haha.
GoIrish41
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I'm not saying that in every case every person would step in, and I know that you aren't saying they wouldn't. I think you should also concede that even among those that carry firearms not all would step in to help the woman. However, most people I know would step in and help the woman, no matter what "tools" they had at their disposal. I suspect that scenario plays out far more often than not, and in more instances that we could possibly know because those events rarely make the news.
ACamp1900
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Between this and the tire fire that is the politics thread i think it becomes clear we have lived very different experiences
FLDomer
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Congrats to all those that would help, that is humanity at its finest, God knows I would have stepped in armed or unarmed! So what he used a gun or 9 iron, but with all the anti-gun media that goes on why not be unbiased and print the positive news where a gun is used to save or protect a life. To your initial question, Yes I think if a golfer, plumber or dog walker had saved a woman from being assaulted I do think it would have made the news!
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Sorry, total bullsh*t. If there's a big guy -- let's say 6'2" - 6'4" 220+ -- beating someone to death on a street most people are NOT hopping out of their car at 4 AM to go confront them in hand-to-hand combat.
Unless "most people you know" are trained MMA heavyweights who are also really great people that are an exception to psychological norms AND aren't afraid of the attacker having a knife or gun on them. Then your statement has a chance of being accurate.
There are hundreds of studies done in social psychology that say you are likely to assist another if you don't perceive the situation as very threatening TO YOU in the assistance. If you perceive extremely high risk TO YOU (which engaging a large person in combat at 4 AM on the street would be to most everyone) then you're likely to defer the response to someone else or help in the way that has least risk to you (i.e. yell out your window "I see you! I'm calling the cops!" or honk your horn at them or just call the cops or a myriad of other actions that don't put you at risk). The classic examples are that many people will assist someone in a wrecked car or who is drowning if they're a strong swimmer but few people will run into a burning building to save someone or attempt to stop an assault/mugging by themselves.
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GoIrish41
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I'm not against the story being printed or the fact that they mentioned the gun. I could go on Google and find dozens of stories in which people acted heroically without a gun but wouldn't use them to demostrate why not having guns is a superior posiition. Articles like this should not be used as evidence that guns are a necessity for a good and functioning society any more than the others that speak of people doing the right thing when they are unarmed. I comend you and the many, many others who would step in to help.