Manti Te'o for Heisman

[JughedJones]

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[North Buffalo Irish]

Just to play devils advocate what is so special about this year that Manti couldn't do the last 3 years? Is it just his personal growth and experience that completely turned the team around in his senior year??

Talent around him was not very good, especially in his first two seasons. Manziel is playing in the most quarterback-friendly system in the world, and has two monster wide receivers in Swope and Evans. But yeah, a lot of it had to do with Te'o's decision to turn down the NFL and come back for his senior season. He also dropped some weight and worked on getting faster, quicker and getting better in pass coverage (his major weakness his first three years... and now he has 7 interceptions!).

I think it is more apparent that in his Freshman year JFF came in and replaced a top ten NFL quaterback in the first year in a more difficult conference (and don't even pretend the Big 12 is good this year) and completely turned around the program. You see where I am going with this?

So the move from Sherman to Sumlin has absolutely, positively nothing to do with the change? And the fact that A&M's best wins outside of Bama are Cowbell State and Louisiana Tech?

Why didn't Teo's leadership and inspiration lead his team to victory last year?

Because Te'o doesn't play quarterback. Tommy Rees's turnovers prevented the 2011 team from winning 10+ games.

And to all of JFF is a criminal types.... Being arrested and lying to the cops.

Sounds like a criminal to me. Not that ND hasn't had recent high-profile players have run-ins with the law... but Michael Floyd wasn't a Heisman candidate.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

Just to play devils advocate what is so special about this year that Manti couldn't do the last 3 years? Is it just his personal growth and experience that completely turned the team around in his senior year??

I think it is more apparent that in his Freshman year JFF came in and replaced a top ten NFL quaterback in the first year in a more difficult conference (and don't even pretend the Big 12 is good this year) and completely turned around the program. You see where I am going with this?

Technically he is replacing Case Keenum who was an obvious product of a system, just like Kingsbury was under Leach. Now obviously Johnny brings an added dimension with his legs but do you think he would be putting up the numbers he is with last year's A&M staff and system?

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

The ND Football Banquet is on Friday, Dec. 7 and the Heisman Trophy presentation is on Saturday, Dec. 8. I wonder if Manti and Kelly fly out to NYC after the banquet or early Saturday morning. I wouldn't think they would miss the banquet.

 

[PraetorianND]

I won't be disappointed if Manti doesn't win the Heisman. I'm so happy with the way this season has turned out that I can't be upset. Johnny is pretty damn good. He isn't overrated at all, he makes that team go. I think it's neck and neck Johnny and Manti in terms of production and on field impact. I think Johnny has the better defining moment in his win against Bama and I think Manti has the better story, integrity, and character.

Obviously I hope Manti wins it but either way we're going to the NCG!

 

[ekinggill_ftw]

Let's be clear: Manti is a great linebacker. However, there are half a dozen other ILB/OLB on teams that have greater individual stats. Their teams are not undefeated and don't have shiny gold helmets.
http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2012&div=IA&site=org

Manti
58th in FBS in tackles/game
Not in top 100 in FBS in solo tackles.
Not in top 100 in FBS in tackles for loss.
Not in top 100 in FBS in sacks.
67th in FBS in passes defended.
3rd in FBS in interceptions.
Not in top 100 in force fumbles.

For all of those talking strength of schedule: A&M is ahead of ND in every single possible way SOS is determined.

Toughest Schedules

Moreover, 3rd party SOS like Sagarin have A&M above ND.

You guys should focus on game planning for Georgia or Alabama and stop wasting time thinking Manti is going to win it. There is nothing exceptional about Manti's year. Heck, Marqise Lee has had a more outstanding year, but unfortunately Lane Kiffin and his dad can't coach their D.

Gig'Em.

 

[dshans]

Jughed: "bifurcated"

Oh, here is a good word for a new drinking game.

Am I the only one who glided over the word without blinking? I suppose though, that unless watching some program on medical or legal issues, you'd end the night as sober as a member of the Woman's Christian Temperance Movement.

Not exactly a good word to use in a drinking game if your goal is to get "loose."

 

[JughedJones]

Manti's stats are middle of the road in ILB/OLB, except his interceptions. Learn to accept that you have a good defensive player on an undefeated team. There is nothing exceptional about him that we can't find every year in a good linebacker.

He isn't in the top 100 in tackles of loss, solo tackles, sacks.

He is 58th in tackles/game.
He is 3rd in interceptions.

Enjoy your championship game, and start game planning for Georgia/Alabama. You guys put up a pretty good fight (given your big Nissan lead) for the Heisman vote, but once again the 12th man prevails.

Gig'Em!

 

[North Buffalo Irish]

blah blah blah blah blah a bunch of **** we've all heard before

Rakeem Cato has better stats than Manziel.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Jughed: "bifurcated"



Am I the only one who glided over the word without blinking? I suppose though, that unless watching some program on medical or legal issues, you'd end the night as sober as a member of the Woman's Christian Temperance Movement.

Not exactly a good word to use in a drinking game if your goal is to get "loose."

No, that isn't the point. I started conflation. I used it a lot. People conflate a lot. The conflaters started a drinking game. They began drinking every time I said conflation. Then Joe Biden said it, (because I taught him). Then the massive conflaters really started drinking.

We could do the same thing with bifurcate. A) we could have a bull session about the Chaos Theory. B) We could talk about the Bible with some good Tehas fundementalists; lots of bifurcation going on there! C) We could talk about ekinggill_ftw. I am going to call him Gill for short. We could say, My, my, that Gill conflated two different things, and thus his logic train's tracks bifurcated leaving a massive wreck!" And everybody could take a drink. I mean everybody!

 

[Grahambo]

Let's be clear: Manti is a great linebacker. However, there are half a dozen other ILB/OLB on teams that have greater individual stats. Their teams are not undefeated and don't have shiny gold helmets.
http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2012&div=IA&site=org

Manti
58th in FBS in tackles/game
Not in top 100 in FBS in solo tackles.
Not in top 100 in FBS in tackles for loss.
Not in top 100 in FBS in sacks.
67th in FBS in passes defended.
3rd in FBS in interceptions.
Not in top 100 in force fumbles.

For all of those talking strength of schedule: A&M is ahead of ND in every single possible way SOS is determined.

Toughest Schedules

Moreover, 3rd party SOS like Sagarin have A&M above ND.

You guys should focus on game planning for Georgia or Alabama and stop wasting time thinking Manti is going to win it. There is nothing exceptional about Manti's year. Heck, Marqise Lee has had a more outstanding year, but unfortunately Lane Kiffin and his dad can't coach their D.

Gig'Em.

Manti's stats are middle of the road in ILB/OLB, except his interceptions. Learn to accept that you have a good defensive player on an undefeated team. There is nothing exceptional about him that we can't find every year in a good linebacker.

He isn't in the top 100 in tackles of loss, solo tackles, sacks.

He is 58th in tackles/game.
He is 3rd in interceptions.

Enjoy your championship game, and start game planning for Georgia/Alabama. You guys put up a pretty good fight (given your big Nissan lead) for the Heisman vote, but once again the 12th man prevails.

Gig'Em!

 

[johnnykillz]

*nice complexion.

Proactive is calling.

They're sending back his money.

And apparently Jessica Simpson just yelled out a "Boo Johnny Football, Woo Pig Sooey!"

 

[ulukinatme]

Just to play devils advocate what is so special about this year that Manti couldn't do the last 3 years? Is it just his personal growth and experience that completely turned the team around in his senior year??

I think it is more apparent that in his Freshman year JFF came in and replaced a top ten NFL quaterback in the first year in a more difficult conference (and don't even pretend the Big 12 is good this year) and completely turned around the program. You see where I am going with this?

Manti's 7 Ints this year are 7 more than he had in the previous 3 years, if I'm not mistaken. Thats one way he's really stepped up his game. He also was prone to missing tackles here and there in previous years. It wouldn't occur all that often, but he's been pretty spot on this season. He's shut down beasts like Bell from MSU, he's been in coverage when needs be, and he's just always making big plays and stops for this Irish defense. I think those reasons are why he's been highlighted this year and not in previous years, aside from his leadership on and off the field. Just look at the USC game and you can see the integrity and positive impact he conveys as an ambassador of this university. Before the game he made it a point to seek out Matt Barkley, mention how he was sorry he was injured, and wish his team good luck. He was also out on the field to check on his comrade, an offensive player, when he went down injured. Theres a lot of unity in this team, they play for each other, and it starts with Manti.

 

[Ag11]

While I wouldn't be as blunt as ekinggill, the argument against Teo is pretty clear. This is pretty much what I have been reading from our end of the spectrum and why I wanted to come see if you guys have the same type of argument against Johnny. After what we have talked about it I think it would be fair to say that had Pitt kicked a field goal then Teo would no longer be in contention because he would no longer be "the best player on the best team" which is the main thing he has going for him.

 

[Grahambo]

Texas A&M wins:

SMU: 6-6
South Carolina State (FCS): 5-6
Arkansas: 4-8
Ole Miss: 6-6
LA Tech: 9-3
Auburn: 3-9
Miss State: 8-4
Alabama: 11-1
Sam Houston State (FCS): 9-3
Missouri: 5-7

66 - 53 (With two FCS wins)

ND wins:

Navy: 7-4
Purdue: 6-6
MSU: 6-6
Michigan: 8-4
Miami: 7-5
Stanford: 10-2
BYU: 7-5
Oklahoma: 9-2
Pitt: 5-6
Wake Forest: 5-7
USC: 7-5

77 - 52

 

[DSully1995]

While I wouldn't be as blunt as ekinggill, the argument against Teo is pretty clear. This is pretty much what I have been reading from our end of the spectrum and why I wanted to come see if you guys have the same type of argument against Johnny. After what we have talked about it I think it would be fair to say that had Pitt kicked a field goal then Teo would no longer be in contention because he would no longer be "the best player on the best team" which is the main thing he has going for him.

Buuuuut they didnt, had Bama won, Johnny would be just like mariota, ''great for a frosh, but a Heisman winner? cmon"

 

[Grahambo]

While I wouldn't be as blunt as ekinggill, the argument against Teo is pretty clear. This is pretty much what I have been reading from our end of the spectrum and why I wanted to come see if you guys have the same type of argument against Johnny. After what we have talked about it I think it would be fair to say that had Pitt kicked a field goal then Teo would no longer be in contention because he would no longer be "the best player on the best team" which is the main thing he has going for him.

Yeah, it is. He doesn't play offense and the Heisman is an offensive award. It's really that simple.

And if 'Bama scored from the 2 yard line then Manziel wouldn't be considered either.

Manziel is the best player on a good team who played a weak schedule and plays in Kevin Sumlin system. Same system that allowed Case Keenum to throw for a billion yards.

 

[Ag11]

Absolutely the Bama victory was huge but using a goal line stand as your argument is pretty ironic coming from a ND fan. Ole miss would be a better example. Bama away vs Pitt at home. My point is Johnny is not running as "the best player on the best team".

And to compare our offense to the one Keenum ran is way off. We are way more balanced and have more rushing yards than passing yards.

And weak schedule? I would take Standford, and OU any day over LSU, Florida, and Bama. Good luck coming out of that with no losses. No one thought MSU or USC was going to be that bad but you could say the same for Arkansas and Auburn.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

Absolutely the Bama victory was huge but using a goal line stand as your argument is pretty ironic coming from a ND fan. Ole miss would be a better example. Bama away vs Pitt at home. My point is Johnny is not running as "the best player on the best team".

And to compare our offense to the one Keenum ran is way off. We are way more balanced and have more rushing yards than passing yards.

And weak schedule? I would take Standford, and OU any day over LSU, Florida, and Bama. Good luck coming out of that with no losses. No one thought MSU or USC was going to be that bad but you could say the same for Arkansas and Auburn.

You are right it is not all Air Raid, but it is 1000% different then what A&M would traditionally run and is really just a modification of Sumlin's up tempo style.

You are right that Johnny is not running as " the best player on the best team," he is running as "the exciting QB who is only getting consideration because all the other QBs that were ahead of him flopped." If Collin Klein had not lost to Baylor he would be far and away the favorite with far less impressive stats.

The Heisman has become nothing more than an offensive player of the second half of the year award.

 

[Grahambo]

Absolutely the Bama victory was huge but using a goal line stand as your argument is pretty ironic coming from a ND fan. Ole miss would be a better example. Bama away vs Pitt at home. My point is Johnny is not running as "the best player on the best team".

And to compare our offense to the one Keenum ran is way off. We are way more balanced and have more rushing yards than passing yards.

And weak schedule? I would take Standford, and OU any day over LSU, Florida, and Bama. Good luck coming out of that with no losses. No one thought MSU or USC was going to be that bad but you could say the same for Arkansas and Auburn.

We can circle the wagon a billion times but the fact is Manti won't win it because he isn't an offensive player putting up 'Madden' type numbers.

 

[ulukinatme]

Absolutely the Bama victory was huge but using a goal line stand as your argument is pretty ironic coming from a ND fan. Ole miss would be a better example. Bama away vs Pitt at home. My point is Johnny is not running as "the best player on the best team".

And to compare our offense to the one Keenum ran is way off. We are way more balanced and have more rushing yards than passing yards.

And weak schedule? I would take Standford, and OU any day over LSU, Florida, and Bama. Good luck coming out of that with no losses. No one thought MSU or USC was going to be that bad but you could say the same for Arkansas and Auburn.

Yeah, try going 12-0 against all AQ teams, no FCS. Also, your'e comparing Arkansas and Auburn to MSU and USC? Seriously? USC and MSU at least won some games in their conferences. Arkansas only conference wins were against friggin' Kentucky and Auburn, who was winless in conference play.

 

[Ag11]

We can circle the wagon a billion times but the fact is Manti won't win it because he isn't an offensive player putting up 'Madden' type numbers.

Agreed. Its just hard to quantify and compare players that aren't QB, RB or WR's. Heck a CB could have 0 pics all year and be the best in the league because no one ever throws to that side.

 

[Irish8248]

Absolutely the Bama victory was huge but using a goal line stand as your argument is pretty ironic coming from a ND fan. Ole miss would be a better example. Bama away vs Pitt at home. My point is Johnny is not running as "the best player on the best team".

And to compare our offense to the one Keenum ran is way off. We are way more balanced and have more rushing yards than passing yards.

And weak schedule? I would take Standford, and OU any day over LSU, Florida, and Bama. Good luck coming out of that with no losses. No one thought MSU or USC was going to be that bad but you could say the same for Arkansas and Auburn.

doesnt really matter what you previously thought of a team when your presented with what they really are.... Does MSU and USC beat Ark and Aub this year? i would bet my life. Could they beat A&M? I like their chances. You dont have the defense to stop the USC Wrs nor the MSU rushing attack.... until you can defeat or even deflate Pat Forde's article on the SEC schedule vs NDs schedule, youre in a losing battle.

 

[ulukinatme]

doesnt really matter what you previously thought of a team when your presented with what they really are.... Does MSU and USC beat Ark and Aub this year? i would bet my life. Could they beat A&M? I like their chances. You dont have the defense to stop the USC Wrs nor the MSU rushing attack.... until you can defeat or even deflate Pat Forde's article on the SEC schedule vs NDs schedule, youre in a losing battle.

USC's offense, with a healthy Barkley, would beat A&M in a shootout methinks.

 

[Ag11]

Yeah, try going 12-0 against all AQ teams, no FCS. Also, your'e comparing Arkansas and Auburn to MSU and USC? Seriously? USC and MSU at least won some games in their conferences. Arkansas only conference wins were against friggin' Kentucky and Auburn, who was winless in conference play.

You mean Kentucky that beat Kent St that is going to replace OU in a BCS game? lol

I kid. Going 12-0 is quite a feat and I don't deny that but in my opinion beating LSU, Florida, and Bama is harder than beating OU, Stanford, and a bunch of mid level teams that taken individually would be a 14 point underdog in every game. Not to mention we didn't have a bye week this year and beat bama after playing LSU at home then AU away, and MSU away. Thats just an opinion though. Luckily we will get to see here in a month

 

[Ag11]

USC's offense, with a healthy Barkley, would beat A&M in a shootout methinks.

Not so impressive when it took a goal line stand to beat them without Barkley and terrible play calling.... And just for arguments sake I think you are wrong

 

[Ag11]

You are right it is not all Air Raid, but it is 1000% different then what A&M would traditionally run and is really just a modification of Sumlin's up tempo style.

You are right that Johnny is not running as " the best player on the best team," he is running as "the exciting QB who is only getting consideration because all the other QBs that were ahead of him flopped." If Collin Klein had not lost to Baylor he would be far and away the favorite with far less impressive stats.

The Heisman has become nothing more than an offensive player of the second half of the year award.

Completely agree with everything you said and it is a little sad. Solid post

 

[johnnykillz]

Not so impressive when it took a goal line stand to beat them without Barkley and terrible play calling.... And just for arguments sake I think you are wrong

A TD is 7 points if a successful conversion is yielded.

9 points was the spread champ.

Why are you here?

Go away.

Johnny needs you to bail him out of jail.

We aren't voters in the Heisman.

Take your bullshit to wherever their forum exists.

 

[Irish8248]

Not so impressive when it took a goal line stand to beat them without Barkley and terrible play calling.... And just for arguments sake I think you are wrong

yea... 0/8 from within 5 for a net of 0yds -- clearly not impressive at all

 

[Ag11]

yea... 0/8 from within 5 for a net of 0yds -- clearly not impressive at all

Probably some of the worst play calling I have ever seen. Plus the crappy throw to the back of the endzone to wide open receiver over Teo. Then the obvious lack of catching ability on the last play of the game.

You see it as the best D in the league stuffing an offensive juggernaught, I see it as a good defense selling out on the run and a completely inept coach and quarterback who is not good.