Politics

[Rhode Irish]

"And that makes him totally unqualified to ask a group of people what they thought about the debate for the rest of time. He can never be cool with a crowd or be honestly intrigued with responses of undecideds if he is involved in any way shape or form with the game."

Gotcha. Thanks.

Buster, if I put up a video of myself (registered independent and not paid by anyone) interviewing a group of "independents," how much credence would you give to their responses? If you're smart, you'd say "not much." I could easily set that up in favor of my worldview.

 

[Rhode Irish]

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[Rhode Irish]

He's on again right now. Show me the bias. Go.

THE GROUP, buster. The group is garbage. These people that he pulls on (in typical FOXNews fashion) are an embarrassment to middle school graduates everywhere.

 

[BobD]

I just wish Biden would say what's really on his mind. If he called Ryan a lying fvckin douche bag on national TV....Obama and Biden win re-election in a landslide.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Buster, if I put up a video of myself (registered independent and not paid by anyone) interviewing a group of "independents," how much credence would you give to their responses? If you're smart, you'd say "not much." I could easily set that up in favor of my worldview.

I would judge that depending on that interview. I WOULD HAVE TO ACTUALLY WATCH IT.

I can understand having cautious. Hell the guy is on Sean Hannity's show after all hahaha But if he's truly a Republican strategist, then he's paid to get to know what people are really thinking, regardless if it favors a side or not.

And for the record, I'm not saying that Luntz doesn't have a whole fuuck-ton of bones in his closet. I'm simply saying this: "in the few focus groups I have watched with Luntz, I have found them to be fair, honest, and unbiased." That's it. It's past my bed time. I'm going to bed. My mom might yell at me if I stay up any longer............

 

[Buster Bluth]

THE GROUP, buster. The group is garbage. These people that he pulls on (in typical FOXNews fashion) are an embarrassment to middle school graduates everywhere.

Ahhh well see, I tend to look at people like that and think "welp, half of us are below average..."

These people do vote. And when I said earlier that politicians cater to the lowest common denominator with their platitudes, these are exactly the type of people I'm talking about. I'm not watching it to gain any awesome insight to sway my vote, I'm watching it because it shows me what some of the (below) average joes are thinking. I find it fascinating in that regard, which is why focus groups happen all the time for political parties.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Ahhh well see, I tend to look at people like that and think "welp, half of us are below average..."

These people do vote. And when I said earlier that politicians cater to the lowest common denominator with their platitudes, these are exactly the type of people I'm talking about. I'm not watching it to gain any awesome insight to sway my vote, I'm watching it because it shows me what some of the (below) average joes are thinking.

Fair point, I suppose.

 

[Domina Nostra]

I just wish Biden would say what's really on his mind. If he called Ryan a lying fvckin douche bag on national TV....Obama and Biden win re-election in a landslide.

That has been the campaign strategy. Everything, every disagreement, every opinion, every utternance, is a full-out lie. It's like that song, "Wasn't me." No matter what happens, just stick to your story. Well the strategy was working until it wasn't. But it like the Boy who cried wolf. If you are going to make a stink like that, you better have your house in order (see Libya).

Everyone knows politicians will say what it takes to get elected. You aren't supposed to vote based on the guy's handshake, or how he makes you feel, or what he says to your people. You ask yourself who he is and who appears to be influencing him... who does he need to please? who does he rely on for support and resources? Then you vote based on who you think will end up pushing policies that will most benefit the country.

So I have no problem with both sides calling out the other side occasionally and giving their side of the facts. But if Democrats are really convinced that Pres. Obama and Joe Biden--JOE BIDEN (look up his history with plagiarism)--are little selfless, paragons of truth and virtue that have been honest and forthright throughout this campaign, we're all in a lot of trouble.

It cuts both ways.

 

[irishpat183]

I just wish Biden would say what's really on his mind. If he called Ryan a lying fvckin douche bag on national TV....Obama and Biden win re-election in a landslide.

....So tolerant, so progressive.


Come on. Yet you let your own canidate lie to people for the last 4 years, and not a peep??

As much as you think Romney/Ryan have to prove to win the election...Obama needs to prove that he deserves another 4 years, despite his horrible record.


Hypocrisy at it's finest.


I love how Charles Krauthammer put the debate: “If you read the transcript, I think it’s dead even. If you heard it on radio, Biden won. If you watched it on television, he lost.”

 

[irishpat183]

Biden is an emotional trainwreck. He's the LAST guy I want in charge of our country.

But that's the difference between me and a bleeding heart.

Emotion isn't going to fix our economy

 

[RDU Irish]

In a single payer system who are you suggesting is "picking up the tab" for the insurance? Will companies be taxed? Will individuals be taxed? or Will it just be added to the debt?


I don't know how your monthly pre-bate works but consumption taxes **** the poor and let the rich get off easy. Most poor and middle class people spend most if not all of their money, while the rich don't thus raising the real tax rate on the poor and lowering it on the rich. So unless your pre-bate basically gives the poor all of their taxes back, you are screwing them. Thanks and try again.

You admit you don't get it and then fume about how stupid something is that you don't understand? Let me educate you on a very simple concept that is integral to any consumption tax discussion.

Prebate - Give every citizen a monthly check, say $300/month. No questions asked. This offsets taxes UP TO a certain consumption level, if the tax is 10% it covers tax on $3000/month of consumption. This gives ADVANTAGE to those who consume less. A family of four starts the month with $1200 in their bank account, regardless of welfare, work or whatever, which would offset taxes on $12,000 a month of consumption. How can anyone with an ounce of intellect call that regressive?

I know a "framework" discussion is impossible with most of you but this is not a hard and fast proposal, rather a simple example.

 

[irishpat183]

You admit you don't get it and then fume about how stupid something is that you don't understand? Let me educate you on a very simple concept that is integral to any consumption tax discussion.

Prebate - Give every citizen a monthly check, say $300/month. No questions asked. This offsets taxes UP TO a certain consumption level, if the tax is 10% it covers tax on $3000/month of consumption. This gives ADVANTAGE to those who consume less. A family of four starts the month with $1200 in their bank account, regardless of welfare, work or whatever, which would offset taxes on $12,000 a month of consumption. How can anyone with an ounce of intellect call that regressive?
I know a "framework" discussion is impossible with most of you but this is not a hard and fast proposal, rather a simple example.

Because anything other than "TAX THE RICH!!!!" is bad.

 

[ab2cmiller]

You admit you don't get it and then fume about how stupid something is that you don't understand? Let me educate you on a very simple concept that is integral to any consumption tax discussion.

Prebate - Give every citizen a monthly check, say $300/month. No questions asked. This offsets taxes UP TO a certain consumption level, if the tax is 10% it covers tax on $3000/month of consumption. This gives ADVANTAGE to those who consume less. A family of four starts the month with $1200 in their bank account, regardless of welfare, work or whatever, which would offset taxes on $12,000 a month of consumption. How can anyone with an ounce of intellect call that regressive?

I know a "framework" discussion is impossible with most of you but this is not a hard and fast proposal, rather a simple example.

I think you probably need to clarify who you are talking to, the first part of the quote is from me, the second part is from someone else. I raised a question and you are responding to someone else's reply in the second part you have quoted. Yet my name appears as the one making this questionable comment. It looks like it's pkt that you are grilling.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Obama slept through the debate last week. Biden giggled through the debate last night. Didn't do his ticket any favors with independent voters.

 

[irishpat183]

Obama slept through the debate last week. Biden giggled through the debate last night. Didn't do his ticket any favors with independent voters.

Given the state of our nation, I thought his laughing was just disrespectful.

Really? With your record in the whitehouse, you're LAUGHING?

 

[BobD]

....So tolerant, so progressive.


Come on. Yet you let your own canidate lie to people for the last 4 years, and not a peep??

As much as you think Romney/Ryan have to prove to win the election...Obama needs to prove that he deserves another 4 years, despite his horrible record.


Hypocrisy at it's finest.


I love how Charles Krauthammer put the debate: “If you read the transcript, I think it’s dead even. If you heard it on radio, Biden won. If you watched it on television, he lost.”

My comment is more based on the idea that I'd like to hear someone, anyone in politics say whats really on their mind. I think it might be time to drop some of the formality. The real world and politics are so disconnected.

 

[RDU Irish]

On one hand, Ryan reassured old people with his respectful behavior and compliments to old man Joe. On the other hand, he let Joe run over him. He missed a ton of openings, was to wonkish and not concise enough in some of their main points. His closing remarks were good but I bet half the people tuned out within 45 minutes rather than listen to people talking over eachother all night.

Ryan talked the talk with foreign policy, average idiotis impressed if you can name some places or people around the world that you have never heard of. Ryan sounded better in this than I expected.

If I want someone to lead the legislative process, I have no doubt after last night that Ryan can listen to bombastic jackasses with patience and respect to at least keep a dialogue going. Biden will tell everyone the are lying liars and make a scene where ever possible.

F-ing drama queen Joe scares the hell out of me if he were to be President. Ryan isn't anything to brag about though. So the job I KNOW they will do, Ryan hands down. In the job they MIGHT have to do, nothing to get excited about either way.

End of the day - yawn. I don't see any votes changing over this or major campaign fodder either. Edge Biden for the debate but he gave some nice cartoonish behavior to reinforce the concept of who will be reaching across the aisle. Record and rhetoric do not bode well for the Dems on this issue that IMO is integral to getting independent and blue dog voters. For this primary reason, I think the debate did not stop the bleeding for Obama. Good chance Mitt does not jump on it though!

 

[Domina Nostra]

Here is a "fact check" from last night:

FACT CHECK: Slips in vice president's debate - Yahoo! News

 

[Irish Houstonian]

The only winner of this "debate" was Biden's dentist.

 

[BGIF]

If you really think that Luntz is unbiased, you should really rethink your position. He's a hack. Not dumb...knows what he's doing. That's what makes him a mess. He knows that he's playing the part of unbiased arbiter, but he's pushing an agenda .

You mean like the guy who started this thread because he was ... "curious" but has his guy listed first?

And than savaged the other team throughout the thread.

I can't say that I've heard heard Luntz savage the other side nor have I heard the CNN Focus Group Moderator savage the republicans. I do recall Luntz pointing out in this and past debates areas where each parties points have scored points or lost them.

He's neither Rush nor Ed.

 

[RDU Irish]

I love the focus groups. Better than any commentator IMO. You can see Luntz smh at Hannity all the time when Hannity blathers on for five minutes with some slanted rhetorical question at the end of the rant to ask the group. Hannity is a knob.

 

[GoIrish41]

The only winner of this "debate" was Biden's dentist.

That's funny no matter who you are for!

 

[RDU Irish]

Because anything other than "TAX THE RICH!!!!" is bad.

They spout off $800B from expiring Bush tax holiday on the rich only- That is $80B per year on average and more like $50B next year. Way under 10% of the current deficit.

Meanwhile, $200B of tax on earners below "rich" comes back next year if no action is taken. That is 75% of the "cost" of the Bush tax holiday going to the lower earners, not the rich? How can that be? But Biden and Obama say Republicans gave it all to the rich? Damn you facts getting in the way of dramatic effect!

Both sides stretch the truth but on Libia, Biden may have screwed the pooch pretty hard. From the link above -

WASHINGTON (AP) — Anyone who paid attention to a hearing in Congress this week knew that the administration had been implored to beef up security at the U.S. Consulate in Libya before the deadly terrorist attack there. But in the vice presidential debate Thursday night, Joe Biden seemed unaware.

"We weren't told they wanted more security there," the vice president asserted flatly. During a night in which Biden and Republican rival Paul Ryan both drifted from the facts on a range of domestic and foreign issues, that was a standout.


And then to later dramatically assure the world that IRAN is not a threat and "we will know" emphatically if they have a weapon??!??!? WTF Joe? You STILL don't know it was a terrorist attack in Libia but you will know what is going on in Iran? Say what you want about how we deal with Iran but that is a HUGE flub.

The fact Ryan didn't jump all over this was disappointing. He flatly responded instead of taking the chance to pound home the point. Zinger here would have been the soundbite to last a week and I can't understand how he wasn't prepared to deliver one.

 

[Bluto]

Biden is an emotional trainwreck. He's the LAST guy I want in charge of our country.

But that's the difference between me and a bleeding heart.

Emotion isn't going to fix our economy

Neither are overly emotional and childish statements like calling people bleeding hearts, whatever that means.

 

[RDU Irish]

And the "you cut $300M from embassy security" from Biden was effective because Ryan did not immediately retort "YOU prioritized Paris over Libia with your funds" to reiterate the point he made sheepishly elsewhere. Good information used ineffectively.

Just the same, I would have liked Ryan to let Biden answer what the unemployment rate of Scranton was, I bet he didn't know. He wasted ammo there too.

Experience won this one for Joe, Ryan was respectible and respectful but left a lot on the table.

 

[Bluto]

My comment is more based on the idea that I'd like to hear someone, anyone in politics say whats really on their mind. I think it might be time to drop some of the formality. The real world and politics are so disconnected.

This made me kind of laugh. Having been around people involved in politics most of my life the last thing anyone ever does is "say what's really on their mind". That is unless they want to get canned and or have their life ruined. The root of this problem in my opinion is the ammount of money involved in the electoral process on all levels which has made electoral politics big business. This in turn necessitates the need to constantly blow smoke up rich people's asses. That being the case of course there is a disconnect between most politicians and the average person due to the constant pandering to the super rich and their personal agendas whatever they may be. With the Citizens United ruling this is only going to get worse. What's that old saying..."pucker up buttercup".

 

[RDU Irish]

This made me kind of laugh. Having been around people involved in polotics most of my life the last thing anyone ever does is "say what's really on their mind". That is unless they want to get canned and or have their life ruined. The root of this problem in my opinion is the ammount of money involved in the electoral process on all levels which has made electoral politics big business. This in turn nessecitates the need to constantly blow smoke up rich people's asses. That being the case of course their is a disconnect between most politicians and the average person due to the constant pandering to the super rich and their personal agendas whatever they may be. With the Citizens United ruling this is only going to get worse.

Dead on, Bluto. I think out vapid soundbite nation has more to blame than anything. I would like to see some of these guys grow a pair and put it out there too but the minute you say anything meaningful you are ripped to shreds by the media. Political correctness is essential to elections since the opposite is really political wrongness.

 

[irishpat183]

My comment is more based on the idea that I'd like to hear someone, anyone in politics say whats really on their mind. I think it might be time to drop some of the formality. The real world and politics are so disconnected.

Have you ever listened to Chris Christie?

 

[irishpat183]

Neither are overly emotional and childish statements like calling people bleeding hearts, whatever that means.

I didn't call anyone here that name. I was stating the difference.


Running this country on emotion is the reason we're in this mess to begin with.

 

[irishpat183]

Dead on, Bluto. I think out vapid soundbite nation has more to blame than anything. I would like to see some of these guys grow a pair and put it out there too but the minute you say anything meaningful you are ripped to shreds by the media. Political correctness is essential to elections since the opposite is really political wrongness.

Which is a real problem...