With the Presidential election coming up...

[Irish Houstonian]

Another great one is Okun's book regarding efficiency and equality

Equality and Efficiency, the Big Tradeoff - Arthur M. Okun - Google Books

Although it's fairly intuitive, he spells out pretty clearly the universal tradeoff between forced redistribution of wealth ("equality") and economic growth ("efficiency").

 

[Bluto]

Hey since we are talking about easy reading like the Communist Manifesto and Das Kapital I'll throw out Distinction by Pierre Bourdieu.

The Wrecking Crew and What's the Matter with Kansas by Thomas Frank and Invisible Hands by Phillips Fien are good political critiques.

Children of NAFTA by David Bacon gives some good insight into "free trade".

Collapse by Jared Diamond is a good one in terms of environmental policies and practices and their consequences.

Shadowed Lives by Chavez is a good ethnography in regards to illegal immigrants.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

Pierre Bourdieu has some interesting ideas.

 

[Bluto]

Pierre Bourdieu has some interesting ideas.

The Favored Circle by Gary Stevens is a good book that uses Bourdieu's theories as the foundation for a critique of the architecture profession. Really well written and pretty funny as well.

 

[connor_in]

Atlas Shrugged=femigm, conservative "philosophy" in a nut shell.

Honestly how can conservatives be objectivists and religious whackos at the same time?

Answer...not possible. Similarities yes..and some common views but you will find overlap among a number of political philosophies

 

[Quinntastic]

I knew as soon as I saw this thread title that it would eventually become a political bloodbath in here and not even a full page in and it's already hostile. We already have a political "debate" thread. I don't think my blood pressure can handle another one...

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

Thats why I didn't ask ppl's thoughts on the "other side".

If I get this right, republicanism(little r) is about small gov, individual liberty, free market, etc

So where are the roots of these ideas?

EX: Someone can correct me but TJ's "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" line comes from Paine's work?

 

[Downinthebend]

I question that republicanism is about small gov, individual liberty, or the free market.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

I question that republicanism is about small gov, individual liberty, or the free market.

ah sh#t so... they don't believe in that or that those ideas cant be implemented the way they hoped

 

[Downinthebend]

ah sh#t so... they don't believe in that or that those ideas cant be implemented the way they hoped

If you're looking at an ideology that follows those things check out libertarianism or check out some of Ron Paul's views.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Thats why I didn't ask ppl's thoughts on the "other side".

If I get this right, republicanism(little r) is about small gov, individual liberty, free market, etc

So where are the roots of these ideas?

EX: Someone can correct me but TJ's "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" line comes from Paine's work?

The "root" of individual liberty...? It's a concept that's in every body politic, one that has been analyzed and built upon since ancient Greece. It wasn't "discovered" in a documented event like the light bulb.

That second line comes from John Locke, probably one of the first Libertarian theorists.

 

[Bluto]

Thats why I didn't ask ppl's thoughts on the "other side".

If I get this right, republicanism(little r) is about small gov, individual liberty, free market, etc

So where are the roots of these ideas?

EX: Someone can correct me but TJ's "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" line comes from Paine's work?

If you are genuinely interested in the rise of the modern day conservative movement from a historical perspective Invisible Hands by Phillips Fien is fantastic. It documents the rise of what is now the modern day GOP beginning with the immediate response to the Great Depression and the rise of the New Deal. It documents the creation of the Mont Pelerin Society and the Chamber of Commerce and the roles they played in shaping conservative thought as well as GE's role in Ronald Reagan's political career. Lots of interesting stuff.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

The "root" of individual liberty...? It's a concept that's in every body politic, one that has been analyzed and built upon since ancient Greece. It wasn't "discovered" in a documented event like the light bulb.

That second line comes from John Locke, probably one of the first Libertarian theorists.

Maybe I'm confused... is their a republican definition of a "individual liberty". Didn't the Ancient Greeks have slaves?

 

[irish1958]

Maybe I'm confused... is their a republican definition of a "individual liberty". Didn't the Ancient Greeks have slaves?

Of course they did. Even St. Paul, Christ, the Old Testament talked about the duties of slaves to their masters. Some of our esteemed founding fathers, whom the present day conservatives hold holy, ( perhaps not saints, but at least blessed) did also.
I have to give you this, however. Jefferson's first draft of the Declaration condemned slavery in the most graphic terms, but was omitted from the final document to placate South Carolinia and Georgia.
He must have recanted as he continued to hold slaves until he died and did not free them in his will.
For the Republicans, and apparently, the Libertarians, "life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness" means "MY life, liberty and happiness" not yours or the unfortunate amount us.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

Of course they did. Even St. Paul, Christ, the Old Testament talked about the duties of slaves to their masters. Some of our esteemed founding fathers, whom the present day conservatives hold holy, ( perhaps not saints, but at least blessed) did also.
I have to give you this, however. Jefferson's first draft of the Declaration condemned slavery in the most graphic terms, but was omitted from the final document to placate South Carolinia and Georgia.
He must have recanted as he continued to hold slaves until he died and did not free them in his will.
For the Republicans, and apparently, the Libertarians, "life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness" means "MY life, liberty and happiness" not yours or the unfortunate amount us.

Do you know where if this is in any books on his life? Looking into Alexander Hamilton by Chernow.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Maybe I'm confused... is their a republican definition of a "individual liberty". Didn't the Ancient Greeks have slaves?

Like a Republican dictionary...? What are you talking about?

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

Has individual liberty been defined the same way through all eras? What role did the individual have in society, etc...

 

[jason_h537]

Has individual liberty been defined the same way through all eras? What role did the individual have in society, etc...

Nothing has been defined the same way always. I guess you can define civil liberties the same but context has to be taken into account.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Has individual liberty been defined the same way through all eras? What role did the individual have in society, etc...

No. So, for example, "liberte, egalite, fraternite" of the French Revolution generally meant that everything's fine until Robespierre sent you under the guillotine for criticizing the gov't.

 

[WaveDomer]

The "root" of individual liberty...? It's a concept that's in every body politic, one that has been analyzed and built upon since ancient Greece. It wasn't "discovered" in a documented event like the light bulb.

That second line comes from John Locke, probably one of the first Libertarian theorists.

Aristotle and philosophers like Epicurus talked about "pursuing happiness" or "virtue." Jefferson wrote in letters that he was a big fan of Epicurus and even wrote that Epicurean philosophy is, "Moral.—Happiness the aim of life. Virtue the foundation of happiness. Utility the test of virtue." So pursuing happiness is pursuing virtue. It's not about pleasure.

Regarding slavery, just remember that human beings are exactly that, human. There is no perfect place or perfect person, and there never will be. And while some Founding Fathers did own slaves, there were others who fought vehemently against it. John Jay, Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, John Quincy Adams and Alexander Hamilton among others. Benjamin Franklin actually owned slaves but as he got older he became very opposed and headed up abolition efforts. At the time of the Founders, slavery was something that was very ingrained in society. Of course, that doesn't make it right, but context does matter.

American Sphinx by Ellis is a good Jefferson book. Also, check out the National Archives and just search around. There are a lot of neat things in there, letters etc.

 

[DSully1995]

Thats why I didn't ask ppl's thoughts on the "other side".

If I get this right, republicanism(little r) is about small gov, individual liberty, free market, etc

So where are the roots of these ideas?

EX: Someone can correct me but TJ's "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" line comes from Paine's work?

I learnt this today in my poli 201, Classical Liberalism (believe it or not) is the root of the ideals like:

Laissez faire(turgot), spontaneous order Friederich HAeyk) and of course Adam Smiths invisible hand are classical liberal themes, theorised in order to establish an equality of right ( but not necessarily opportunity).

 

[Bluto]

I learnt this today in my poli 201, Classical Liberalism (believe it or not) is the root of the ideals like:

Laissez faire(turgot), spontaneous order Friederich HAeyk) and of course Adam Smiths invisible hand are classical liberal themes, theorised in order to establish an equality of right ( but not necessarily opportunity).

You are correct. That's what makes the whole liberal conservative debate kind of weird. Republicans are actually "neo-liberals" when it comes to economic issues.

 

[DSully1995]

You are correct. That's what makes the whole liberal conservative debate kind of weird. Republicans are actually "neo-liberals" when it comes to economic issues.

Its funny cause I thaught myself a liberal on social issues and conservative on economic issues, but its end up im basically just a classical liberal

 

[irish1958]

Do you know where if this is in any books on his life? Looking into Alexander Hamilton by Chernow.

I am not sure to whom you are reffering. If it the Jefferson statement:
Declaring Independence: Drafting the Documents and: George Stephanopolous: Flake | Facebook, among others.

 

[Downinthebend]

Its funny cause I thaught myself a liberal on social issues and conservative on economic issues, but its end up im basically just a classical liberal

Pretty close to the definition of a Libertarian too.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

I am not sure to whom you are reffering. If it the Jefferson statement:
Declaring Independence: Drafting the Documents and: George Stephanopolous: Flake | Facebook, among others.

No you had it right. I just mentioned Hamilton because someone told me that he has been somewhat misunderstood and mentioned that book.

 

[ACamp1900]

With an election between these two 'winners' I'd say your best bet at literature would be something along the lines of "Heavy Drinking: The Myth of Alcoholism as a Disease"

Heavy Drinking: The Myth of Alcoholism as a Disease: Herbert Fingarette: 9780520067547: Amazon.com: Books

 

[phgreek]

With an election between these two 'winners' I'd say your best bet at literature would be something along the lines of "Heavy Drinking: The Myth of Alcoholism as a Disease"

Heavy Drinking: The Myth of Alcoholism as a Disease: Herbert Fingarette: 9780520067547: Amazon.com: Books

yea no kidding...