Black alumni upset by Irish firing of Willingham

[NDLyght37]

Somebody's cranky.

First of all, when have I ever been politically correct? I've said nothing on theese boards that would be considered "PC". And hiring a good coach is not progressive, it's smart...but not progressive.

Secondly, if anyone has the opportunity to ensure their family financial stability and passed it up, I would call them an idiot...regardless of race.

Next, I played football, baseball, & ran track in high school. I played baseball on the junior college level. What does that have to do with anything? I'd still much rather have a guy like Tom Landry coach me over some raving madman on the sidlines. Just because someone is screaming & yelling, it does not make them a good leader.

Finally, in almost every post I've called for all minorities to get the opportunity to be a head coach, not just African Americans. And the BCA is inclusive to all minorities, not just African-Americans.

BTW, I'm still trying to find where all this hostility is coming from. I guess you mistake slandering a coach's name and questioning my athletic experience for a rational argument. :starwars:

 

[bmf175]

Somebody's cranky.

First of all, when have I ever been politically correct? I've said nothing on theese boards that would be considered "PC". And hiring a good coach is not progressive, it's smart...but not progressive.

Secondly, if anyone has the opportunity to ensure their family financial stability and passed it up, I would call them an idiot...regardless of race.

Next, I played football, baseball, & ran track in high school. I played baseball on the junior college level. What does that have to do with anything? I'd still much rather have a guy like Tom Landry coach me over some raving madman on the sidlines. Just because someone is screaming & yelling, it does not make them a good leader.

Finally, in almost every post I've called for all minorities to get the opportunity to be a head coach, not just African Americans. And the BCA is inclusive to all minorities, not just African-Americans.

BTW, I'm still trying to find where all this hostility is coming from. I guess you mistake slandering a coach's name and questioning my athletic experience for a rational argument. :starwars:

Oh what can I say about my buddy, good old NDLyght37?

First you obviously failed to read my post... so go back and read it again.

The reason I have Progressive in quotations is because YOU USED THAT WORD! That would constitute the use of quotation marks.
And I never called him an Idiot I called him a quiter. How are you going to apply for a job and already be planning for your firing? Unless you know you are a fraud?
What does your athletic experience have to do with anything? I had a point in that last post of mine...you know about looking up to your coach when you are losing... It was not a personal attack and I wasnt saying that you never played sports. I was simply saying that people with experience playing sports should know what kind of impact a coach can provide or not provide.
And when did I say I wanted a coach running up and down the sideline screaming?
Once again read the post over one more time.
A rational arguement? Slander is not a an argument its a quarrel evrybody knows that.
But what makes my disliking of Coach Willingham an argument is that I have multiple Premise to back it up. And my argument is Valid because my premise are true. And you are the one committing the falacy of revelance in trying to appeal to emotions that you have in the misconduct of college football or that you think they are wrong.
So dont get me started on arguments I think I know an argument when I see one. Once again dont put words in peoples mouths. That just shows that you are dumb founded like Willingham. :swordfigh

 

[Guest]

The media made too much of a big thing with the Ty firing. The media probably set back what progress might of been made in minorities getting coaching jobs. Do you think schools are going to want to hire black coaches now that they've seen all the shit ND has had to put up with.

No college is going to want to hire a coach where they have to honor the contract, and if they don't get beat up by the media. Ty's contract was honored, he got his money.

Ty must of broken every record at ND. Not the good records. ND got embarassed on national TV too many times. I don't want to hear how he needed to implement his system, he lost to teams with no talent, he lost to Syracus by 26 points, SYRACUSE for crying out loud.

Ty wouldn't drop the Axe and fire diedrick, that alone should be means for termination. Isn't it funny how it looks like Diedrick isn't going to Washington, From what I read Washington wasn't going to hire Ty unless he dropped Diedrick.

 

[NDLyght37]

BMF - I used progressive because in this day & age it IS progressive for a major university to hire a minority coach.

And I don't think Ty was being a quitter...just being a realist. Coaching is a job where you could get fired after one bad season, so a smart coach who thinks ahead would put a thing like that in his contract just in case something happens. If I was going in for a coaching job & I saw how guys like Zolich were fired despite winning records, I'd want some financial compensation in case I got wrongly fired, too.

I think you can look up to a quiet coach just as you could a firey coach. Landry, Dean Smith, Coach K...all quiet guys who I would have no problem playing for. There are firey guys like Gruden who are very good coaches, but just because you're quiet it doesn't mean you're not a good coach.

Queens - Yeah, Ty finally smartened up on that one. That's the old "fool me once, shame on me..." deal.

 

[bmf175]

BMF - I used progressive because in this day & age it IS progressive for a major university to hire a minority coach.

And I don't think Ty was being a quitter...just being a realist. Coaching is a job where you could get fired after one bad season, so a smart coach who thinks ahead would put a thing like that in his contract just in case something happens. If I was going in for a coaching job & I saw how guys like Zolich were fired despite winning records, I'd want some financial compensation in case I got wrongly fired, too.

I think you can look up to a quiet coach just as you could a firey coach. Landry, Dean Smith, Coach K...all quiet guys who I would have no problem playing for. There are firey guys like Gruden who are very good coaches, but just because you're quiet it doesn't mean you're not a good coach.

Queens - Yeah, Ty finally smartened up on that one. That's the old "fool me once, shame on me..." deal.

Theres nothing wrong with being a quiet coach but even quiet head coaches have coaches on their staff that pick up the emotion level, rarely do you see the whole side line of coaches standing there and looking dumb.

"There are firey guys like Gruden who are very good coaches, but just because you're quiet it doesn't mean you're not a good coach."

Please show me were I said anything different... I simply said For TY WILLINGHAM that tactic was not working and he should of made some "half time adjustments" thats all Im saying. A good coach should know when to put some fire up their players butts.

And addressing Bobby Knight, I dont agree with his tactics but he is a great coach and has won everywhere hes been.

Young college players respond to that emotion level that the coach brings to the game. Thats why I think Coach Weis is going to be great at ND. He has the knowledge, he has the drive, and he will provide the motivation on Staurdays.

 

[bmf175]

"Next, I played football, baseball, & ran track in high school. I played baseball on the junior college level. What does that have to do with anything? I'd still much rather have a guy like Tom Landry coach me over some raving madman on the sidlines. Just because someone is screaming & yelling, it does not make them a good leader."


And dont preech to me what leadership IS!!!

Until you've led army rangers in two different wars ,led rangers in ranger school and graduated all the leadership courses rangers and special forces offer you can leave the leadership lessons to me. Thank You
:rocket:

 

[irishtexan]

This is a stupid f****** argument. I think it got out of hand a little too much.

 

[bmf175]

Well than...dont read it anymore,.

Thats why it is called a chat forum you can chat about anything you want.

Me and NDLyght are both ND fans we can chat or argue about a thread if we feel we need to.

Besides Im done with this topic for now unless we still have opinions to share.

 

[irishtexan]

you guys both have some good points, i just think its dumb to argue about anything over ty. sure, i played football in high school, and bmf175 i think you are right. i get fired up as hell when i see a coach getting into the game, and not just standing there like a jackass, emotionless, and getting beat on by shi**y teams. ndlyght was right in his sense too. bmf175 i am a marine, and i totally agree with lighting a fire under someones ass if they are giving a poor performance, thats where i think me and you see it differently than most people. we are used to gettin close and personal with things and not letting them ride out. and we both certainly wouldnt sit there with our arms crossed on the sideline if we were getting our ass kicked.

 

[bmf175]

Agreed, Thank You.

Ill honor your request and drop the conversation.

 

[Guest]

I like to see a coach go nuts on the sideline myself. Ty would just stand their emotionless no matter what, used to piss me off. The man must have some patience. Maybe he was thinking about his boyfriend bill diedrick. Prolly consoled one anther everynight. Fairy's. kidding kidding...

I'm sure Weis will go nuts, mainly because he's and ND guy and it will piss him off if ND is screwing up.

I heard alot of players would always yell at Diedrick, answer him back. Ty must of known this why didn't he lose Diedrick.

 

[jiggafini19]

I like to see a coach go nuts on the sideline myself. Ty would just stand their emotionless no matter what, used to piss me off. The man must have some patience.

Queens, take it from a guy that played the game, this stuff is overrated. The screaming and yelling. Eddie George once said that if you need to get yelled at or have somone light a fire under your ass to motivate you to play, then you're not ready to play anyway. Bill Belicheck doesn't blow up and do the Gruden/Cowher dog and pony show. So much of that stuff is showmanship in my opinion. These guys know the cameras are on them.

When guys on our staff used to get red faced and start screaming, it would usually lighten the mood because it was so damn funny we'd fight back the laughter. These outburts usually served as inside jokes for the rest of the season.

Are there times that a coach should go nuts and needs to? Absolutely. However, I think these moments should be saved for behind closed doors situations like halftime, team meetings or practice. Again, with the game the way it is these days, these coaches know the cameras are on them. I don't want Weis to be a poser like Pete Carroll.

 

[bmf175]

I agree with most of what you said.

But I know personally that grabbing a player and getting in his face (not yelling in his face) can get a player to focus and bring him back to the game.

Like you said there are certain times for it But I dont think it should be restricted to behind closed doors. There are alot of different personalities out there and and everyone of them requires a different approach to leadership, if the situation calls for it...I dont care if its on national television or at practice screaming and yelling does get a point accross at the right time.

Eddie George is a great athlete but he is failing to take into consideration what I just said above. Everybody needs a different stimulus to get going. If you are quiet coach...great be quiet but if you start getting your ass wooped something needs to change.

Some coaches might use it as a show. But if somebody yelled at me on national television and i knew this guy off television to be a quiet guy, it might make me think about my performance.

 

[jiggafini19]

I think a lot of it depends on the player. Some guys absolutely needed to get the ears rung with a little hollering. Others didn't respond well to that kind of coaching. Some guys would use the chastizing as fuel and play to spite the coaches.

My stimulus was knowing exactly what I had to do and going out and doing it. Some guys are very elaborate about pumping themselves up before a game. I usually went over what I needed to do that day in my mind and visualized it.

That and Metallica "And Justice For All" always seemed to do the trick.

 

[irishtexan]

bmf175 is right. in some of those huge college matchups and crowded stadiums, kids can get unfocused. the cameras, reporters, screaming fans, all that stuff. if they arent concentrating on the task at hand, then sometimes screaming to get their attention back in the game can help. i never saw ty trying to do that. im sure he didnt do it in the locker room at halftime, because look at the performance of the team in some of those games, i.e., pitt, bc, purdue. the team came out and went through the motions. it didnt look like to me they were fired up.

 

[Aerosmith777]

I think to you really have to make a seperation between college and the pros. Some of you are talking about Landry and Belichek and other pro coaches who didn't/don't yell and scream, but I think its different in college. In the pros you're dealing w/ all paid proffesionals, many of whom are seasoned veterans in their mid-to-late 30's. These are grown men making a living who are in a completely different state of mind than college players. College players are younger and much more impressionable, and much more likely to take on the personality of their coach. So I kinda straddle both sides of the fence; in the pros I kind of like to have a quieter coach who doesn't wear his heart on his sleave like a Belichek or Jeff Fisher type (especially for a veteran team), but in college I'd want to have a guy who's a little more emotional. And don't use Bobby Knight, that's a bad example given how he's treated some of his players. I think a good person to talk about is Dick Vermeil. That guy always lets his players know exactly where he's coming from and how he feels, but he remains pretty posititve throughout most of the time, so its not exactly that he's yelling and screaming at them in a negative way, he's getting behind them and pumping them up. I think young players take to that kind of aggressive motivation as long as its mostly positive, especially b/c for a young kid in college they look up to their coach in a very different way than a veteran pro, who mostly sees their coach they way we would probly see our boss. Might be a good guy and someone we really enjoy working for, but he's not someone we look to to really validate us or take our identity from.

 

[jiggafini19]

When people defend Bobby Knight by saying he graduates players, guess what: you're supposed to. They're supposed to. I know many of his former players swear by him, but there is no way I'd deal with that crap. I don't want to get into Bobby Knight, but there's an inferiority complex there that dates back to when he was a kid. Hugged too much or not enough? We'll never know.

Was at the UC last night watching Alford's Hawkeyes blow the Red Raiders out of town. Great stuff.

 

[Guest]

When people defend Bobby Knight by saying he graduates players, guess what: you're supposed to. They're supposed to. I know many of his former players swear by him, but there is no way I'd deal with that crap. I don't want to get into Bobby Knight, but there's an inferiority complex there that dates back to when he was a kid. Hugged too much or not enough? We'll never know.

Was at the UC last night watching Alford's Hawkeyes blow the Red Raiders out of town. Great stuff.

I'm amazed it took him so long to wear out his welcome in Indiania.
TEXA TECH I THINK HAS HAD ENOUGH OF HIM HE MAY GO T USC

 

[jiggafini19]

I'm amazed it took him so long to wear out his welcome in Indiania.
TEXA TECH I THINK HAS HAD ENOUGH OF HIM HE MAY GO T USC

Queens, if he had been winning like in years past, he'd still be at IU. That's what kept him around so long in the first place.

 

[NDFan4Life]

agree, REPS, LOLOLOL

Too subtle.

 

[greyhammer90]

In Soviet Russia, thread bumps you!

 

[Andy in Sactown]

Stop speaking sputnik.

 

[PANDFAN]

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i stopped translating after this...

 

[greyhammer90]

welcome all

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i stopped translating after this...

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[PANDFAN]

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[greyhammer90]

while we have this up... what the hell did QueensNY do to earn his title? I want a story!

 

[notredomer23]

while we have this up... what the hell did QueensNY do to earn his title? I want a story!

I am pretty sure he started deleting perfectly fine recruiting threads and then reported IE to Mike Frank when he was at Irisheyes and the whole site almost collapsed and it pretty much had to be reborn