Why do players keep leaving?

[laxkid23]

This is now Chris Stewart and Matt Carufel since the season started.

 

[Shark Attack]

As far as I know, Chris Stewart went home but decided to stay.

However, we have had a fair share of transfers in Zach Frazer, Demetrius Jones, Konrad Reuland, and now Matt Carufel. To be fair though, the depth chart was pretty crowded at QB and TE, especially for such high talent players who probably expected to see playing time - QB with brady gone, and two high talent players told they wouldn't start, and TE playing much more of a blocking role than anything. Matt Carufel however is a surprise, considering that he got jumped on the depth chart tuesday and left wednesday, and that Weis has been saying that no starting position is ever safe. Carufel has been contributing a lot lately and I'm stumped as to his decision.

In any case, this opens up another scholarship should Weis decide to pursue more recruits.

 

[johnnd05]

These kids are getting passed up by other guys who are more talented. I wish they'd stay and compete to move up the chart, but if they're not into doing that then perhaps it's best that they go elsewhere. As I've said, though, having players transfer is not really all that uncommon, and ND's had fewer players transfer from their '06 class than many other schools. I don't know how many of those others were mid-season departures, but oh well. It was a 28-man class and now it's down to 24, and all the players who left were second-string at best and may never have been starters.

 

[laxkid23]

The 2006 class wasn't entirely Weis' either, so this does open up an opportunity for HIS recruits to come in a compete. Some of this does show that he knows how to recruit, considering his players are the ones coming in a pushing others out of the starting roles and forcing others to work harder.

 

[johnnd05]

The 2006 class wasn't entirely Weis' either, so this does open up an opportunity for HIS recruits to come in a compete. Some of this does show that he knows how to recruit, considering his players are the ones coming in a pushing others out of the starting roles and forcing others to work harder.

No, the 2006 class was 100% Weis (and his staff). It was the '05 class (such as it was) that was almost entirely Willingham's doing.

 

[SouthieND04]

No, the 2006 class was 100% Weis (and his staff). It was the '05 class (such as it was) that was almost entirely Willingham's doing.

Cute kid, John. And yeah, Stewart is rejoining--or has rejoined--the team.

 

[johnnd05]

Cute kid, John. And yeah, Stewart is rejoining--or has rejoined--the team.

He's rejoined it. He actually got into the game yesterday, for the first time in his career. Good for Chris.

 

[Epitome]

Good for him! I hope it works out because he is a hope lot of man for defenses to contend with(340lbs).

 

[kmoose]

As far as I know, Chris Stewart went home but decided to stay.

However, we have had a fair share of transfers in Zach Frazer, Demetrius Jones, Konrad Reuland, and now Matt Carufel. To be fair though, the depth chart was pretty crowded at QB and TE, especially for such high talent players who probably expected to see playing time - QB with brady gone, and two high talent players told they wouldn't start, and TE playing much more of a blocking role than anything. Matt Carufel however is a surprise, considering that he got jumped on the depth chart tuesday and left wednesday, and that Weis has been saying that no starting position is ever safe. Carufel has been contributing a lot lately and I'm stumped as to his decision.

Frazer = didn't like his position on the depth chart
Jones = didn't like his position on the depth chart
Reuland = didn't like his position on the depth chart
Carufel = now that we know he quit the team the day after being told he wasn't going to start against BC, I think it's safe to say that he didn't like his position on the depth chart.

What I want to know is..............where are the fighters, the kids who respond to adversity by buckling down and working harder? Are we offering a bunch of quitters, or have kids really changed that much, as a whole?

 

[johnnd05]

Good for him! I hope it works out because he is a hope lot of man for defenses to contend with(340lbs).

Yep. Or at the very least (as has been pointed out), he's at least more of a man to run around if that's all our opponents are going to be doing every game.

 

[KamaraPolice]

Frazer = didn't like his position on the depth chart
Jones = didn't like his position on the depth chart
Reuland = didn't like his position on the depth chart
Carufel = now that we know he quit the team the day after being told he wasn't going to start against BC, I think it's safe to say that he didn't like his position on the depth chart.

What I want to know is..............where are the fighters, the kids who respond to adversity by buckling down and working harder? Are we offering a bunch of quitters, or have kids really changed that much, as a whole?

I wouldn't call them quitters. It's easy for me, who never had a shot at playing notre dame football (even though rudy falsely inflated my hopes as a child), to say, come on, you are living the dream of millions of people. But, realistically, to be there in the moment, with your own life, it's got to be hard as hell for the team. Thats why they will rebound, this team will be leaps and bounds better next season; and it's too bad it will happen without a lot of good players who decided to leave.

I can't fault them though, I have no idea what they are experiencing not just on the football field, but as a college kid as well.

 

[kmoose]

I wouldn't call them quitters. It's easy for me, who never had a shot at playing notre dame football (even though rudy falsely inflated my hopes as a child), to say, come on, you are living the dream of millions of people. But, realistically, to be there in the moment, with your own life, it's got to be hard as hell for the team. Thats why they will rebound, this team will be leaps and bounds better next season; and it's too bad it will happen without a lot of good players who decided to leave.

I can't fault them though, I have no idea what they are experiencing not just on the football field, but as a college kid as well.

Maybe you're right, KP. My perspective is a little different. I survived a brain aneurysm about ten years ago. It was a tough recovery, and I could have just packed it in and gone on disability and Social Security and gotten paid (albeit not well) the rest of my life. But I busted my ass to get better, and went back to work as an electronics technician (a "brain heavy" occupation). But I have good friends and family who supported and encouraged me, the whole way. Maybe some of these kids' families and friends are more "in the way", instead of being supportive.

 

[NDFan4Life]

Frazer = didn't like his position on the depth chart
Jones = didn't like his position on the depth chart
Reuland = didn't like his position on the depth chart
Carufel = now that we know he quit the team the day after being told he wasn't going to start against BC, I think it's safe to say that he didn't like his position on the depth chart.

What I want to know is..............where are the fighters, the kids who respond to adversity by buckling down and working harder? Are we offering a bunch of quitters, or have kids really changed that much, as a whole?

Kids nowadays expect everything to be handed to them. They don't want to exert any energy to get what they want. I don't know if those kids are in that category, but it certainly wouldn't surprise me if they are.

 

[Epitome]

Yep. Or at the very least (as has been pointed out), he's at least more of a man to run around if that's all our opponents are going to be doing every game.

Have you ever seen the movie Wildcats? Maybe we should attempt the Finch tactic and have AA and JA just push him over on two defenders.

 

[SouthieND04]

Frazer = didn't like his position on the depth chart
Jones = didn't like his position on the depth chart
Reuland = didn't like his position on the depth chart
Carufel = now that we know he quit the team the day after being told he wasn't going to start against BC, I think it's safe to say that he didn't like his position on the depth chart.

What I want to know is..............where are the fighters, the kids who respond to adversity by buckling down and working harder? Are we offering a bunch of quitters, or have kids really changed that much, as a whole?

Reps for this--well said.

 

[Moostache]

Frazer = didn't like his position on the depth chart
Jones = didn't like his position on the depth chart
Reuland = didn't like his position on the depth chart
Carufel = now that we know he quit the team the day after being told he wasn't going to start against BC, I think it's safe to say that he didn't like his position on the depth chart.

What I want to know is..............where are the fighters, the kids who respond to adversity by buckling down and working harder? Are we offering a bunch of quitters, or have kids really changed that much, as a whole?

Ultimately, the team is better served without these guys.

Anyone who bails because they can't earn a starting job is a dogshit player in my book. They may be great kids and great human beings, but whenever quitting is your chosen option in the face of adversity, then you are useless as a football player. Of course that is a harsh over generalization (AND THERE MAY BE MANY MORE UNPUBLICIZED REASONS FOR A KID TO LEAVE), but I see too many people on ND boards the last month hand wringing and worrying about guys leaving or transferring without considering this:

The team STINKS right now, especially on offense. If the 4th tight end (and possibly as low as 5th next year) and the Guard who lost his starting job after 3 largely ineffective weeks, leave, then how much of a loss can that really be? Seriously, if you are a young player and you are looking for playing time, if you are any good whatsoever, then the most promising position in the world to be in has to be on the Notre Dame offensive line at this point. Those guys as a unit are the WORST in D1 football, not near the bottom, not in the bottom half, they ARE the bottom. If a player is worth his salt, he is doing one of two things - getting better and holding down a position or getting better and trying to win backa position.

Carufel bailing after being told he would not start against BC is incredibly selfish and immature. It shows me a player with no heart, no guts and no worth to a football team or program. If I was Weis, I would have offered to help him pack his shit if it meant getting his quitting, afraid of competition and self-important ass out of my sight any faster....

CAVEAT - IF SOMEONE IS TRANSFERRING FOR REASONS BEYOND PLAYING TIME SUCH AS FAMILY ISSUES OR EVEN PERSONAL DISSATISFACTION WITH BEING AN ND STUDENT, THEN THE ABOVE DOES NOT APPLY.....BUT, IF FOOTBALL DEPTH CHART ISSUES ARE THE REASON FOR A TRANSFER, ESPECIALLY THIS YEAR WHEN JOBS ARE THERE FOR THE TAKING BY THE COMPETENT NOT ONLY THE DOMINANT, THEN LOSING THAT PLAYER IS REALLY ADDITION BY SUBTRACTION....

 

[onenybrother]

Frazer = didn't like his position on the depth chart
Jones = didn't like his position on the depth chart
Reuland = didn't like his position on the depth chart
Carufel = now that we know he quit the team the day after being told he wasn't going to start against BC, I think it's safe to say that he didn't like his position on the depth chart.

What I want to know is..............where are the fighters, the kids who respond to adversity by buckling down and working harder? Are we offering a bunch of quitters, or have kids really changed that much, as a whole?

Your 100% right. Only the strong will survive. Maybe that's why we been looking so bad, players griping behind the scene thinking they could do better. Charlie will be better off without them.

Let's Go Dame !!!

 

[SoCalDomer]

I think Reuland and Carufel had other reasons besides just playing time.

I think Reuland wanted to be closer to home (California). And something similar may be true with Carufel (who is possibly transfering to Iowa or Minnesota?). Perhaps position on the depth chart influenced Reuland, but I don't understand if that is part of Carufel's decision. He was the starter and from what I recalled reading, he's been gone from practice the whole week, before Weis made the decision that Olsen was the starter.

What I don't understand is the mid-season transfer.

 

[notredomer23]

I think Reuland and Carufel had other reasons besides just playing time.

I think Reuland wanted to be closer to home (California). And something similar may be true with Carufel (who is possibly transfering to Iowa or Minnesota?). Perhaps position on the depth chart influenced Reuland, but I don't understand if that is part of Carufel's decision. He was the starter and from what I recalled reading, he's been gone from practice the whole week, before Weis made the decision that Olsen was the starter.

What I don't understand is the mid-season transfer.

I dont buy the closer to home theory bc Reuland recently visted Bama.

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

Ultimately, the team is better served without these guys.

Anyone who bails because they can't earn a starting job is a dogshit player in my book. They may be great kids and great human beings, but whenever quitting is your chosen option in the face of adversity, then you are useless as a football player. Of course that is a harsh over generalization (AND THERE MAY BE MANY MORE UNPUBLICIZED REASONS FOR A KID TO LEAVE), but I see too many people on ND boards the last month hand wringing and worrying about guys leaving or transferring without considering this:

The team STINKS right now, especially on offense. If the 4th tight end (and possibly as low as 5th next year) and the Guard who lost his starting job after 3 largely ineffective weeks, leave, then how much of a loss can that really be? Seriously, if you are a young player and you are looking for playing time, if you are any good whatsoever, then the most promising position in the world to be in has to be on the Notre Dame offensive line at this point. Those guys as a unit are the WORST in D1 football, not near the bottom, not in the bottom half, they ARE the bottom. If a player is worth his salt, he is doing one of two things - getting better and holding down a position or getting better and trying to win backa position.

Carufel bailing after being told he would not start against BC is incredibly selfish and immature. It shows me a player with no heart, no guts and no worth to a football team or program. If I was Weis, I would have offered to help him pack his shit if it meant getting his quitting, afraid of competition and self-important ass out of my sight any faster....

CAVEAT - IF SOMEONE IS TRANSFERRING FOR REASONS BEYOND PLAYING TIME SUCH AS FAMILY ISSUES OR EVEN PERSONAL DISSATISFACTION WITH BEING AN ND STUDENT, THEN THE ABOVE DOES NOT APPLY.....BUT, IF FOOTBALL DEPTH CHART ISSUES ARE THE REASON FOR A TRANSFER, ESPECIALLY THIS YEAR WHEN JOBS ARE THERE FOR THE TAKING BY THE COMPETENT NOT ONLY THE DOMINANT, THEN LOSING THAT PLAYER IS REALLY ADDITION BY SUBTRACTION....

Great Post! Well done!

 

[kjones]

Since I'm usually trying to see the other side, let me at least play at devil's advocate here. (whether or not I actually believe it.)

For some of these kids, their dream is to play college football, and also to possibly play NFL football. Coming out of high school where they were all big fish in small ponds, many of them believed they were good enough to achieve both goals.

However, the harsh reality of big time D1 football sometimes reveals this is not true. They aren't even good enough to play on their own team, much less likely to play on Sundays. Faced with the realization that the bigger dream will likely never come true, can we say its fair that these kids continue in a situation where their lesser dream will also probably never come true? They might never be good enough to play for Notre Dame or a big time school, but does that mean they shouldn't get to play college ball ever? That seems a little bit hard to me.

/devils advocate

Of course, this is freaking Notre Dame we are talking about. Pick your sack up off the ground and quit whining and work to get in! You're never getting another chance like this!




(In reality, I do see both sides, but I think our point of view is based more on our love of Notre Dame which trumps all in our books. Some of these kids love football and getting to play more. Which seems dumb to me and you, but doesn't mean they are bad kids. I still wish them luck and that they enjoy their dream of playing college ball. But I shake my head at what they passed up on.)

 

[quiksilver253]

i agree, if you quit because of your place on the depth chart, u are nothing but a coacsting little bitch. rather than try to improve and work, they'd rather be handed playing time and coasting along with the talent that they have.

 

[piyachi]

Kids nowadays expect everything to be handed to them. They don't want to exert any energy to get what they want. I don't know if those kids are in that category, but it certainly wouldn't surprise me if they are.

Not to snap at you but as a 22 year old, and generally part of the generation you are referring to....this is bullshit. I worked my butt off to get where I wanted and I haven't had squat handed to me, so it's an obnoxious generalization. Every generation probably has some dissatisfaction with the ones that follow since they would like them to be even better, and as a whole people don't change that quickly.

Some people are quitters and some aren't. Carufel may be either, but if you can't be content as competing for a starting job soph year, then you probably never will be. It certainly seems like a stupid move even for him individually since he might miss playing time that would help him - more than he can get sitting out a year. I'm not sure what he will be doing in two years, but I hope he has a tv so he can watch ND win a NC.

 

[WaveDomer]

Since I'm usually trying to see the other side, let me at least play at devil's advocate here. (whether or not I actually believe it.)

For some of these kids, their dream is to play college football, and also to possibly play NFL football. Coming out of high school where they were all big fish in small ponds, many of them believed they were good enough to achieve both goals.

However, the harsh reality of big time D1 football sometimes reveals this is not true. They aren't even good enough to play on their own team, much less likely to play on Sundays. Faced with the realization that the bigger dream will likely never come true, can we say its fair that these kids continue in a situation where their lesser dream will also probably never come true? They might never be good enough to play for Notre Dame or a big time school, but does that mean they shouldn't get to play college ball ever? That seems a little bit hard to me.

/devils advocate

This is a good point. I find it hard to believe that a kid would make a snap decision after being told he is down on the depth chart. Maybe I'm wrong. Transferring is a big decision which involves sitting for a year. I don' think it's something done in a rush of emotion. (Sometimes I'm sure it is.) There can be many reasons for it. Quite simply, it could be the school and the student just don't fit. Nothing wrong with that. How many of us have taken a job, dated someone, or bought a car and had "buyers remorse?" Both parties are better off in that situation.

I think what scares fans is the wondering if something is institutionally wrong with the program and that is why kids are leaving. I don't think so. If you look at how the players are acting, I don't see a team that is disfunctional on that level. Despite their play on the field.

 

[WaveDomer]

Not to snap at you but as a 22 year old, and generally part of the generation you are referring to....this is bullshit. I worked my butt off to get where I wanted and I haven't had squat handed to me, so it's an obnoxious generalization. Every generation probably has some dissatisfaction with the ones that follow since they would like them to be even better, and as a whole people don't change that quickly.

I don't think you get to the level of playing D-I football at a school that demands academic performance, by being a slacker. Rare is the player with that amount of talent alone.

 

[kjones]

I think what scares fans is the wondering if something is institutionally wrong with the program and that is why kids are leaving. I don't think so. If you look at how the players are acting, I don't see a team that is disfunctional on that level. Despite their play on the field.

I don't think anyone should be worried about this. We have less people transferring than USC and other big time programs. Check johnnd05's thread about this. These are, if anything, more healthy signs than what has happened in our recent past.

 

[kmoose]

Since I'm usually trying to see the other side, let me at least play at devil's advocate here. (whether or not I actually believe it.)

For some of these kids, their dream is to play college football, and also to possibly play NFL football. Coming out of high school where they were all big fish in small ponds, many of them believed they were good enough to achieve both goals.

However, the harsh reality of big time D1 football sometimes reveals this is not true. They aren't even good enough to play on their own team, much less likely to play on Sundays. Faced with the realization that the bigger dream will likely never come true, can we say its fair that these kids continue in a situation where their lesser dream will also probably never come true? They might never be good enough to play for Notre Dame or a big time school, but does that mean they shouldn't get to play college ball ever? That seems a little bit hard to me.

/devils advocate

I'll play Devil's Advocate to your Devil's Advocate. If you aren't going to be playing on Sundays, you have two choices:

1. Buckle down and try to earn back your starting spot in South Bend.

2. Go someplace else, sit for a year, and hope that you can earn a starting spot there.

The bottom line is that you may not play at either place. Given that, and the fact that you aren't going to be playing on Sunday: Which degree would you rather have? The one that says "Notre Dame", or the one that says "Minnesota"? No offense to Minnesota, but the degree that says "Notre Dame" is probably worth a lot more.

 

[SoCalDomer]

I'll play Devil's Advocate to your Devil's Advocate.

Wouldn't that be Angel's advocate?

1. Buckle down and try to earn back your starting spot in South Bend.

2. Go someplace else, sit for a year, and hope that you can earn a starting spot there.

The bottom line is that you may not play at either place. Given that, and the fact that you aren't going to be playing on Sunday: Which degree would you rather have? The one that says "Notre Dame", or the one that says "Minnesota"? No offense to Minnesota, but the degree that says "Notre Dame" is probably worth a lot more.

This is why I think there must be something more than "I didn't get the starting job" motivating the transfer. I don't profess to know what it is, though. And I'm not implying that the "it" must be the fault of ND.

 

[kjones]

I'll play Devil's Advocate to your Devil's Advocate. If you aren't going to be playing on Sundays, you have two choices:

1. Buckle down and try to earn back your starting spot in South Bend.

2. Go someplace else, sit for a year, and hope that you can earn a starting spot there.

The bottom line is that you may not play at either place. Given that, and the fact that you aren't going to be playing on Sunday: Which degree would you rather have? The one that says "Notre Dame", or the one that says "Minnesota"? No offense to Minnesota, but the degree that says "Notre Dame" is probably worth a lot more.

[devil's advocate]

This makes sense to me, and to you as well. But in actuality, where you get your degree in the end won't really matter once you buckle down and get a job some where. ND might open up some more opportunities, and perhaps better ones, but overall people with a college degree from anywhere do alright for themselves, at least according to national averages. In the meantime, some of these guys I'm sure would rather get to play since they are working so hard.

I mean, college athletes work their butts off trying to get everything done. Especially at ND. Long hours and no really "cake-walk" athlete majors and low sleep without getting playing time is not for people who don't have a sincere love of all things ND. Take that into account, and many players would rather play and have an easier life (ballroom dancing anyone?) than work and sweat it out at ND.

Dang it, I think I just proved the opposite point that they are kinda wimpy guys who don't want to work hard. Crap.

[/devil's advocate]

 

[SoCalDomer]

Dang it, I think I just proved the opposite point that they are kinda wimpy guys who don't want to work hard. Crap.