USC Post Game Thread

kmoose

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It comments on all of Joe Schmidt's missed tackles and poor play, but as somebody has decided to declare..missed tackles do not technically exist.

No one said that they don't exist; only that the stat is only recorded by one website, and there's no telling what subjective criteria they use to come up with it. If it were you counting Joe Schmidt's missed tackles, I would imagine he would have more missed tackles than CJ Prosise has rushing yards. He's missing tackles, that's obvious. It's also obvious that his back up is a worse option. If you guys want to bury someone, bury the back up who must not be doing anything to convince the coaches to pull the plug on Schmidt.
 

GoIrish41

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No one said that they don't exist; only that the stat is only recorded by one website, and there's no telling what subjective criteria they use to come up with it. If it were you counting Joe Schmidt's missed tackles, I would imagine he would have more missed tackles than CJ Prosise has rushing yards. He's missing tackles, that's obvious. It's also obvious that his back up is a worse option. If you guys want to bury someone, bury the back up who must not be doing anything to convince the coaches to pull the plug on Schmidt.

Every time I've seen Morgan play he has been productive. He's made a mistake here and there, but he's also made his share of plays. Schmidt makes mistakes every game ... lots of them ... and he has a difficult time tackeling RBs and rarely makes a play. Indeed, he's had some dreadful and humiliating performances in the middle of our defense this year. I'll take a few mistakes and otherwise solid play, against a guy who does not seem to have the physical ability to play the position, can't get off a block, is a step slow, and seems to have bought into the hype about himself being a football genius. This situation is far, far worse tham the Cam situation last year on offense because the coaches eventually came to their sences and gave other guys a chance to take most of Cam's snaps. Not the case with Schmidt, despite the increase in production every time Morgan takes the field. I'm not a "fire BK" guy, but this picking of favorites by the coaching staff is getting tiresome.
 

kmoose

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Stats That Matter: Enough with the missed tackles - CBSSports.com

Missed tackles are a part of the game.coaches look at. Here is an article that has Mattison discussing why he wants his team to have no more than 8 missed tackles per game. They are tracked by coaches regardless if it's an official "stat".

Of course they are tracked by coaches. No one has ever suggested otherwise. But those are not "public" stats. The whole "that's not a real stat" issue came up because someone made the claim that Joe Schmidt had more missed tackles than tackles in two consecutive games, and so the coaches must be stupid to keep running him out there. The source of that stat is questionable, is the only point. It's a subjective thing that has no accountability. It's no different from me saying that Joe Schmidt has caused 15 running backs to throw up ahead of the game. So unless you believe that BVG or another coach on the staff is sharing their tracking of missed tackles with a website, then it doesn't matter that the coaches track it.
 
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Cackalacky

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Of course they are tracked by coaches. No one has ever suggested otherwise. But those are not "public" stats. The whole "that's not a real stat" issue came up because someone made the claim that Joe Schmidt had more missed tackles than tackles in two consecutive games, and so the coaches must be stupid to keep running him out there. The source of that stat is questionable, is the only point. It's a subjective thing that has no accountability. It's no different from me saying that Joe Schmidt has caused 15 running backs to throw up ahead of the game. So unless you believe that BVG or another coach on the staff is sharing their tracking of missed tackles with a website, then it doesn't matter that the coaches track it.

Why are you arguing this? I am flummoxed. A missed tackle is easy to see and Coaches have criteria. A person attempts the tackle and is unsuccessful and stopping the other's forward motion.

Eddie Lacy is Really Good: A Look at His Week 1 Performance Against the Seahawks - Acme Packing Company They exist... they are tracked... they are not subjective...and coaches use them to evaluate players. Mattison does not want any more than eight for his whole team... Joe missed 11/20 tackles meaning he has a whiff rate over 50%. Not awesome.
 
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kmoose

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Why are you arguing this? I am flummoxed. A missed tackle is easy to see and Coaches have criteria. A person attempts the tackle and is unsuccessful and stopping the other's forward motion.

Eddie Lacy is Really Good: A Look at His Week 1 Performance Against the Seahawks - Acme Packing Company They exist... they are tracked... they are not subjective...and coaches use them to evaluate players. Mattison does not want any more than eight for his whole team... Joe missed 11/20 tackles meaning he has a whiff rate over 50%. Not awesome.

How do you know that the coaches and the website that publishes this number are using the same criteria? Does it count as a missed tackle if you have your hands on a guy and one of your teammates crashes into you and knocks you off of the guy? You act like the numbers that the website publishes are generated by the coaches, and are therefore legitimate. They're not. The numbers on the website are generated by a bunch of nameless, faceless guys who watch the games for the website. I don't understand how you can not understand this? You think that because some website publishes it, that that makes it accurate?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/v_CgPsGY5Mw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 

kmoose

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Advanced Stats – Thru Week 6 | College Football Film Room
Through week six, Joe leads the nation in missed tackles with 17

Just as reliable......... through 6 weeks, Joe Schmidt has single-handedly saved 15 babies from fires, and beaten both Al-Qaeda AND ISIS.

And since when does "the nation" only include 6 teams? Or has no player outside of ND, Ore, OSU, LSU, Alabama, and FSU(Florida State, presumably, not Fresno State) missed even one tackle this year?
 
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Cackalacky

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How do you know that the coaches and the website that publishes this number are using the same criteria? Does it count as a missed tackle if you have your hands on a guy and one of your teammates crashes into you and knocks you off of the guy? You act like the numbers that the website publishes are generated by the coaches, and are therefore legitimate. They're not. The numbers on the website are generated by a bunch of nameless, faceless guys who watch the games for the website. I don't understand how you can not understand this? You think that because some website publishes it, that that makes it accurate?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/v_CgPsGY5Mw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I feel like you are purposefully being difficult. A missed tackle is a really straight forward stat. Like incomplete pass straight forward. Like assisted tackle straight forward. I appreciate your condescending post... I thought you might not really understand but now I think you are just being obtuse on purpose.
 

SoDakDomer

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Just as reliable......... through 6 weeks, Joe Schmidt has single-handedly saved 15 babies from fires, and beaten both Al-Qaeda AND ISIS.

I would assume they judge each attempted tackle on the same criteria and according to these dudes he has 10 more missed tackles than any guy on our team. Obviously not a black and white stat, as more tackle attempts will lead to more missed tackles. But we have all watched all the games, and its pretty clear to see Joe needs to finish better.
 

kmoose

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I would assume they judge each attempted tackle on the same criteria and according to these dudes he has 10 more missed tackles than any guy on our team. Obviously not a black and white stat, as more tackle attempts will lead to more missed tackles. But we have all watched all the games, and its pretty clear to see Joe needs to finish better.

Of course he does. No one, including me, has been arguing otherwise.
 

kmoose

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I feel like you are purposefully being difficult. A missed tackle is a really straight forward stat. Like incomplete pass straight forward. Like assisted tackle straight forward. I appreciate your condescending post... I thought you might not really understand but now I think you are just being obtuse on purpose.

I'm not being purposefully difficult. And what is this "straightforward" criteria that they use to determine a missed tackle? It's like you refuse to accept that maybe we should not be piling on Joe Schmidt, because that is the only thing I have been against in this whole debate. But people have started to pile unofficial stats on the fire, to burn him even hotter. Again, if people are so angry about the average play from the MLB position, maybe they should focus some of that anger on Joe's backup, who obviously isn't doing much of anything to force the coaches to play him.
 
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Cackalacky

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I'm not being purposefully difficult. And what is this "straightforward" criteria that they use to determine a missed tackle? It's like you refuse to accept that maybe we should not be piling on Joe Schmidt, because that is the only thing I have been against in this whole debate. But people have started to pile unofficial stats on the fire, to burn him even hotter. Again, if people are so angry about the average play from the MLB position, maybe they should focus some of that anger on Joe's backup, who obviously isn't doing much of anything to force the coaches to play him.

Enjoy your evening bud.
 

Luckylucci

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Of course he does. No one, including me, has been arguing otherwise.

You said he was "productive". Over the last 3 games, 4.3 tackles/game and 2.6 solo stops/game is not productive especially for your starting MLB who plays as many snaps as he does.
 

ACamp1900

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You said he was "productive". Over the last 3 games, 4.3 tackles/game and 2.6 solo stops/game is not productive especially for your starting MLB who plays as many snaps as he does.

all while averaging 138 missed tackles every quarter...
 

kmoose

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You said he was "productive". Over the last 3 games, 4.3 tackles/game and 2.6 solo stops/game is not productive especially for your starting MLB who plays as many snaps as he does.

He's the third leading tackler on the team, only one tackle behind the second leading tackler. No one on the defense played well against Clemson. Your MLB is NOT usually your leading tackler against a triple option Navy team; a DB usually is. He hasn't been great, he has had a few complete WTF moments. Is it really too much to ask, for people to quit killing the kid? I don't care if people want him to play less downs, and get his backup some more PT. But there are a number of people crying that "he sucks" after every game. And it's just not warranted.
 

Luckylucci

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all while averaging 138 missed tackles every quarter...

I thought the number was 139 but I can't verify because the website I looked at doesn't have its doctorate in football analysis posted yet.

For comparison sake. Last year Joe had 65 tackles in 8 games. That puts him at 8.12/game and this year he is at 41 tackles through 7 games. Which is 5.85/game. So even relative to his numbers last year he has seen significant regression in productivity. The only positive from this years performance compared to last is his TFL and sack numbers are higher. Which is good but fairly easy to do as they were basically coming from zero.
 

ACamp1900

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He also freed OJ and destroyed the Polio vaccine...
 

DillonHall

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He's the third leading tackler on the team, only one tackle behind the second leading tackler. No one on the defense played well against Clemson. Your MLB is NOT usually your leading tackler against a triple option Navy team; a DB usually is. He hasn't been great, he has had a few complete WTF moments. Is it really too much to ask, for people to quit killing the kid? I don't care if people want him to play less downs, and get his backup some more PT. But there are a number of people crying that "he sucks" after every game. And it's just not warranted.

He's the worst starter on defense. I understand you're hesitant to criticize a model college student, but I'm sure even Joe understands dealing with scrutiny is a big part of being a Notre Dame football player.
 

IrishinSyria

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Pretty boring Joe interview, but I almost choked when I saw the highlight at the end of the video. On the second pick of the game play, we had Joe running in single coverage deep with Adoree. It is pure luck that Kessler didn't try to exploit that.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/E0D_e2xxrBw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 

kmoose

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He's the worst starter on defense. I understand you're hesitant to criticize a model college student, but I'm sure even Joe understands dealing with scrutiny is a big part of being a Notre Dame football player.

But that's just it. I'm not hesitant to criticize; it's the over-the-top "this guy sucks", "he can't tackle"(ignoring the fact that he is the 3rd leading tackler on the team), "he must have pictures of BVG with a goat", "Brian Kelly is a terrible coach, just look at how he keeps playing Schmidt because he likes him" stuff that I object to. We gush over the type of young men that come to Notre Dame; guys like Jaylon Smith, Tarean Folston, Jerry Tillery. We practically fellate these guys over what great PEOPLE they are. But how many of us really live that philosophy? Some of those same people would probably cheer if Schmidt went down with an injury. I'm not perfect, and I do get just as emotional as anyone else about Notre Dame football. But let's quit acting like Joe Schmidt hasn't earned his position more than the guy(s) behind him on the depth chart.
 
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He's the third leading tackler on the team, only one tackle behind the second leading tackler. No one on the defense played well against Clemson. Your MLB is NOT usually your leading tackler against a triple option Navy team; a DB usually is. He hasn't been great, he has had a few complete WTF moments. Is it really too much to ask, for people to quit killing the kid? I don't care if people want him to play less downs, and get his backup some more PT. But there are a number of people crying that "he sucks" after every game. And it's just not warranted.

You have a point that he is a young man and sometimes we are too critical of these kids who play college sports.

That being said, Schmidt really is outclassed physically at this level. I think the coaches leave him in there because he gets everyone lined up and he has a greater than 50% change to make the play in his direction. As you said, his backup must not be able to reach those thresholds or they would play him.

I have a hard time believing, however, that they couldn't rotate another LB in there, possibly from another position, and get him some reps if Morgan looks like he is not 'getting it'. We have some pretty good LB depth that should be an option (and maybe the team is working on that as we speak).

The other thing that makes Schmidt (and the defense as a whole) look bad is the aggresive blitzing defense BVG has implemented. Stats pretty much show those defenses are boom or bust, leading to the inconsistent performance quarter to quarter and game to game that the Irish seem to have.

I further think that BVGs decisions to blitz more often than not to create pressure stem from the lack of recruiting several high quality pass rushing DL. The current DEs are more run stuffers than pass rushers. I think our DTs are probably better rushers than our DEs, relatively speaking.

Next year if a couple DEs have good seasons and our MLB replacing Joe is above average, then I think we see a substantially more consistent defense.
 

scUM Hater

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My biggest takeaway from the USC game is I saw Okwara multiple times going out in coverage. Seriously, why?

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koonja

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- Best game for the WR unit (and Alize) this year IMO. They really put together a focused, and complete game.

- No turnovers from Kizer. Crazy how much better he is as a RS frosh than Golson was.

- Runningbacks played great, I like that Adams got in their early, although I'd still like to see closer to an even split throughout the game.

- OL was great. So great that Kizer stands in the pocket forgetting there's a rush, and he needs to work on that.

- Very unimpressed with the pashrush the defense got most of the night.

- Rush defense was overall good enough. Joe Schmidt was again bad.

- Thought the corners played excellent considering who we were playing.

- Overall team tackling needs to improve somehow. It wasn't just one guy.

- Great special teams game. A+ for each unit IMO.

- Fuck USC.
 
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My biggest takeaway from the USC game is I saw Okwara multiple times going out in coverage. Seriously, why?

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That is a pro-style defense that doesn't work as well in the college game because the college offenses are different and most everyone in the NFL can play well enough that scheme can make a bigger difference.
 

tommyIRISH23

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- Best game for the WR unit (and Alize) this year IMO. They really put together a focused, and complete game.

- No turnovers from Kizer. Crazy how much better he is as a RS frosh than Golson was.

- Runningbacks played great, I like that Adams got in their early, although I'd still like to see closer to an even split throughout the game.

- OL was great. So great that Kizer stands in the pocket forgetting there's a rush, and he needs to work on that.

- Very unimpressed with the pashrush the defense got most of the night.

- Rush defense was overall good enough. Joe Schmidt was again bad.

- Thought the corners played excellent considering who we were playing.

- Overall team tackling needs to improve somehow. It wasn't just one guy.

- Great special teams game. A+ for each unit IMO.

- Fuck USC.

I agree with everything. The WR's were on point and special teams had a coming out party. I disagree about the pass rush. From what I saw and read, the pass rush was there but we were an step to short mostly because of Kessler's pocket presense. We had 9 hurries. We made him uncomfortable.

Tackling needs to be fixed. BK said it best, SC's skill players will make you pay for missed tackles and they certainly did.
 

Irish Insanity

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Why the arguments over Schmidt missed tackles? Dude just doesn't get there enough for that stat to matter.
 
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