Those complaining about the defense...

maison bleu

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National Rankings.......Total Defense.......Scoring Defense
Rutgers............................4 ...........................4
Wisconsin ....................... 7........................... 6
Notre Dame.................... 59.......................... 55

Part of that disparity is due to stength of schedules. But not nearly all of it.

Does any one think Rutgers or Wisconsin has more talent on D than ND? I don't.

What would happen if the ND defense was coached by the Rutgers or Wisconsin staffs? They'd be ranked a hell of a lot higher than the mid-50s....

CW and staff have done a wonderful job with the O. But they need to shake up the staff on the D side of the ball.
 

irishtexan

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I totally agree that Zbikowski should be moved to a LB hybrid. I think ND should run a TRUE 4-2-5 scheme with Zibby and Ndukwe playing up closer to the line. Put in Herring at the deep safety spot. Zibby loves to give run supprt so why try and cage that. Let him play closer to the line like an outside LB and for the love of god, bring him in on some blitzes. Leave Maurice Crum and T.T. at the inside LB position. TT should be blitzing more with his speed. TAKE OUT TERRAIL LAMBERT AT CORNER. He has had some spark this year but he is too streaky. If he has a bad day, it turns into a really bad, bad, day. I dont know why Wooden isnt playing more or maybe some of the freshman. But Zibby and Ndukwe have really missed some coverage support this year becuase they are so hungry to make contact. The 4-2-5 can act like a 4-4 stack against the run but it can also act like a nickel package against the pass. The package utilizes the oustide speed of the LB/Hybrid to blitz often and force turnovers. I haven't been too impressed with our defense this year, but I dont think its the worst in the nation by far. Im not for firing Minter just yet. Give the guy some time to plug in the recruits we are getting. Remember Richardson was not even a corner in high school. If you go back and look back at ND's past recruiting classes before Weis they are as follows:

2003- 21 commits
2004- 16 commits
2005- 15 commits

As you see the number of commits is astonishingly depreciating. I have no idea how recruiting got so bad but we are not exactly playing with a sideline full of superstars. I am not saying they all suck balls, but ND should have a stockpile of better DB's from those 3 classes. At least better enough where they dont have to worry about true freshman in the #2 spots on defense. I honestly think Ty Willingham really killed ND football when he was here with his lazy attitude and the fact that he simply did not "get" ND football. If someone cant see that his inability to get off his ass and recruit and see how that laziness really hurt this University then they are an idiot. We blame Ty for alot of shit but this is by far the truest of all his faults. With more time by Weis though to recruit better talent I think Minter will have more on his plate to gamble with. Dont fire Minter just yet.
 

marv81s

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My theory, kids weren't ready to committ to ND till they saw that CW and ND were the real deal. I think we'll get back up to where we will have a "regular" full class and maybe we didn't have that many scholarships to give out. Either one of those would be my guess. Its not quantity anyway, its quality. I agree that Ty didn't really do us any favors with his final two recruiting classes. Yeah some have panned out obviously, but that is to the credit of CW and his staff's coaching.
 

lattedatte

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National Rankings.......Total Defense.......Scoring Defense
Rutgers............................4 ...........................4
Wisconsin ....................... 7........................... 6
Notre Dame.................... 59.......................... 55

Part of that disparity is due to stength of schedules. But not nearly all of it.

Does any one think Rutgers or Wisconsin has more talent on D than ND? I don't.

What would happen if the ND defense was coached by the Rutgers or Wisconsin staffs? They'd be ranked a hell of a lot higher than the mid-50s....

CW and staff have done a wonderful job with the O. But they need to shake up the staff on the D side of the ball.

I think Rutgers has more talent than us on D(not even close on offense overall). I'm sorry but anyone that could absolutely shut down Brohm the way they did deserves mad props. Their D-line reaked havoc on that team, I have yet to see that from our d-line. I'm going to beat a dead horse but our d-line is the primary problem with our pass d-fense not our secondary.
 

Irish52

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This "bend but don't break" strategy is a bunch of bull! When a defensive back plays 15-20 feet off the potential receiver, you are, in effect, conceding the pass will be caught and depending on stopping him after the catch. Look how many times after the catch, the receiver has gone on for either a hugh gain or touchdown. I say hug that receiver like he is a lost long love! And PLAY FOR THE INTERCEPTION...AND THAT CAN BE TAUGHT. When was the last time an interception took place at the point of completion? The few interceptions we have gotten came from a tipped ball or a very bad throw from the qtrbk. My beef with the defense is that has been no noticeable improvement from last year up through the Aif Force game. I don't know whether its Minter or the position coaches...but, I think everyone agrees that improvement is long overdue. I think Charlie should take a hard look at Bunting (fired coach at UNC) for a defensive coaching position..he's also an excellent recruiter! Talking about recruiting, I think our greatest need in the 2007 class has to be defensive tackles and fast..very fast, line backers. On the offensive side, We need a fast..Reggie Bush or Mike Hart type...tailback and two big offensive linemen with speed. Just my opinion...which probably isn't worth much.
 

Irish52

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This "bend but don't break" strategy is a bunch of bull! When a defensive back plays 15-20 feet off the potential receiver, you are, in effect, conceding the pass will be caught and depending on stopping him after the catch. Look how many times after the catch, the receiver has gone on for either a hugh gain or touchdown. I say hug that receiver like he is a lost long love! And PLAY FOR THE INTERCEPTION...AND THAT CAN BE TAUGHT. When was the last time an interception took place at the point of completion? The few interceptions we have gotten came from a tipped ball or a very bad throw from the qtrbk. My beef with the defense is that has been no noticeable improvement from last year up through the Aif Force game. I don't know whether its Minter or the position coaches...but, I think everyone agrees that improvement is long overdue. I think Charlie should take a hard look at Bunting (fired coach at UNC) for a defensive coaching position..he's also an excellent recruiter! Talking about recruiting, I think our greatest need in the 2007 class has to be defensive tackles and fast..very fast, line backers. On the offensive side, We need a fast..Reggie Bush or Mike Hart type...tailback and two big offensive linemen with speed. Just my opinion...which probably isn't worth much.
 

maison bleu

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I think Rutgers has more talent than us on D(not even close on offense overall). I'm sorry but anyone that could absolutely shut down Brohm the way they did deserves mad props. Their D-line reaked havoc on that team, I have yet to see that from our d-line. I'm going to beat a dead horse but our d-line is the primary problem with our pass d-fense not our secondary.

The Rutgers D plays together as a team. They are very well coached. Compared to O, D is more about desire and effort than speed and skill. Not that the latter aren't important, just a little less important to defense than offense.

In my opinion, a team that tackles poorly week in and week out is poorly coached.
 

Clotho

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ND's whole d-line might be in the NFL. Rutgers is not more talented than us on the d-line. Yet, I'm sure if we played Louisville we wouldn't generate any pass rush at all. It's coaching.
 

patman1868

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I dont know a whole lot about ND's defensive scheme other than it looks like they run a 4-3. I was kind of thinking what if they changes up that every so often and threw in the 3-4 here and there to change it up. I know ND does not have great personel for the 3-4 but here is how I would see it being played. Landri could probably play a 3-4 DE along with From. Then You keep Laws in the middle. The you could stand Abiamiri up at 3-4 OLB and use him as a pass rusher from the standing up position like a shawne merriman. Then you have Crum and Brockington in the middle and TT on the outside. Also if they wanted they could try blitzing morrice richardson from the OLB position. The 3-4 is also a good formation to blitz safties from so ND would be able to blitz Zibby and Ndukwe some times. The thing that I like about running the 3-4 is that you can hide the blitzes, and have more blitz packages. They would also be able to throw in some zone blitzes to try to confuse the offense. So basically I think if ND switched up the formation every now and then it may confuse the O and maybe lead to more pressure on the QB and more forced turnovers.
 
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Clotho

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Similarly, our offense isn't nearly as talented as people think, or as talented as many other team's offenses that can't score nearly as well as our offense does- that, too, is coaching. Weis got Stovall and Fasano drafted first day, and then immediately McKnight and Carlson come in and put up similar or better numbers. I'm interested to see how our players do away from Coach Weis, in the NFL. Brady especially. Does the education stick? Or was it more a matter of great scheming and playcalling than education? I dunno. We'll find out. But Weis is why our offense works. And Minter is why our defense doesn't. I want Georgia Tech's d-coordinator.
 

wclancy

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So many small problems are contributing to the poor performances on defense. There's plenty of "blame" to go around:

1) Lack of presnap movement/shifts - any D1 QB worth his salt has learned to make proper pre-snap reads that will dictate primary passing targets, blitz pickups, and/or audible calls. ND's defense shows few shifts or they shift too early in the cadence effectively neutralizing their movement.

2) Minter reminds me of Bill Dietrick ala trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Sure numbers are down due to players leaving since Weis took over. I don't want to hear about needing a certain type of player (which Minter HAS said) to make the scheme work. ADJUST the scheme then, schmuck. Oh yeah, Stoops at Oklahoma & Tressel at OSU won titles in Year 2 and Urban Meyer did pretty good in Year 2 at both Bowling Green & Utah - great coaches make things happen with what they got. Period.

3) Poor blitz schemes/calls - How 'bout we run EVERY blitz from the weakside??? Too often that's where the pressure comes from - on runs to the offense's strongside, which is where most runs in CFB go, it's an easy 5+ yd gain (or often much more).

4) Poor coverage design - I would LOVE to see our DBs lined up non-traditionally straight across approx 8-10yrs deep like BYU. It allows no pre-snap read for what pass def is coming...2-deep? 3-deep? Quarters? Man-Zone Under? Which in turn slows down or confuses the QB'ss reads and results in more "coverage sacks" and poor pass decisions --> PBU/Ints.

5) Move from two DTs to one DT & a 3-technique NT which forces two OL to block the NT every play. This would give Landri, Abiamiri, & Frome 1-on-1's more often (excluding TEs or RBs staying in to block) and should lead to more QB pressure.

6) Zone blitz? Have you heard the term?


Talent is not an issue, at all. I'll admit Zibby & Ndukwe are way too aggressive against the run at safety, but that wouldn't be as obvious if the above were handled better. Minter may be a great teacher of technique and a great recruiter (not sure if either are true), but his schemes and play-calling are average at best. We've see what great scheming & play-calling can do for an offense (Charlie Weis, you're being paged!), the same could be possible with the defense.
 

ND Lifer

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I'd change the LB corp to T. Smith in the middle and Zibby and Crum on the outside. (I posted early last year that Zibby should be moved to LB). Richardson and Walls at corner and Burton and Duke at safety. I'd leave the D line as is. However, I would bring Richardson in on obvious passing downs because he is a much better pass rusher than Frome. Then I would go to an "attack" defense rather than a "bend, don't break" defense.

As a side note, we made the AFA QB look awfully good for a guy who is not a passer, but a runner. It was his best passing game of the year by far. Booty and USC really worry me in the passing game. Say a lot of prayers!!!!!
 
J

jerseyborn1971

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National Rankings.......Total Defense.......Scoring Defense
Rutgers............................4 ...........................4
Wisconsin ....................... 7........................... 6
Notre Dame.................... 59.......................... 55

Clearly ND's Defense is not great, but a 59 and 55 ranking tells me they aren't nearly as terrible as people make it seem. You would think by the comments made by analysts and fans that ND had the worst defense in the country. They aren't great, but they aren't terrible either. Actually, they must be at least ok, they helped get ND to 9-1.
 

tommy

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the d won some of the games this year or at least kept us in it when the o was sputtering
but everyone would agree there are problems
 

Irish1

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the d won some of the games this year or at least kept us in it when the o was sputtering
but everyone would agree there are problems

well put! Too bad the only complete game that the irish had was against PSU. Defense played well that game as well as the offense and special teams. Haven't seen any such thing since.

Still gave up the big play during the Air force game, granted it was still out of reach...Fact of the matter is that it was still given up. If we give USC the big plays of course the irish will lose and the same with the bowl game as well.

Once the right guys for the system get into ND, they will be a machine! Until then we just have to wait.....
 

Clotho

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The defense did NOT play well vs PSU, Morelli and the wideouts just made horrible mistakes.
 
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jerseyborn1971

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The defense did NOT play well vs PSU, Morelli and the wideouts just made horrible mistakes.

Spoken like a true PSU fan. I'm amazed at the luck ND has had this year. In virtually every game they have played, the opposing offense has made so many mistakes that the Irish won despite having a horrific defense.

9/10 games the opponents mistakes gave ND the win. That truly is the Luck of the Irish!
 
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polishdomer

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Zibby was a no show? Statistically speaking maybe, but this couldn't be father from the truth. Zibby's job against option offenses is to mirror the pitchman, in this case, the Air Force's QB. He played this spot against Navy and it was no different today. Who do you think was setting up Ndukwe for all of those tackles? Zibby forced the pitch and Ndukwe was there to make the stop.

Svo, he was a no-show...he was out of position several times, despite his assignment to spy on the QB...how many yards did Carney have running the ball? If he is assigned to spy on Carney, then there was failure there. I was trying to make the point that Zibby seems more suited to play LB than as a true Safety as his pass coverage skills are very lacking.
I love the guy, as he is a fellow Polak from my neck of the woods, and I have run into him once in the area. He is a phenomenal athlete, and I wish nothing but the best for him. I was suggesting that since we have some other speedy guys at Safety, and serious lack of depth at LB, that to try Zibby there...but it is getting late in the season...???
 

jiggafini19

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1. Lack of takeaways (12)

2. Still too many big plays being allowed

3. Third down

Everyone is fine at the position they are playing. Period.
 
J

jerseyborn1971

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Svo, he was a no-show...he was out of position several times, despite his assignment to spy on the QB...how many yards did Carney have running the ball? If he is assigned to spy on Carney, then there was failure there. I was trying to make the point that Zibby seems more suited to play LB than as a true Safety as his pass coverage skills are very lacking.
I love the guy, as he is a fellow Polak from my neck of the woods, and I have run into him once in the area. He is a phenomenal athlete, and I wish nothing but the best for him. I was suggesting that since we have some other speedy guys at Safety, and serious lack of depth at LB, that to try Zibby there...but it is getting late in the season...???

Carney had 42 yards rushing. I think this is what SVo was talking about. People are so passionate about the team that they comment off gut instinct instead of fact. Everything else you wrote could be right, but Zibby did show up and do his job well. Only 42 yards from the QB.
 

Freeman Ara

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It seems that there are two types of people on this thread, those that see the truth about our defense, which is that they are not that good and the offense makes them look much better then they are. And those that see the truth, have accepted it and realize its going to get better with recruiting and time. someone in an earlier post stated that the defense must be ok, we're 9-1, um we're 9-1 because we can put up 40 against just about anybody. The UCLA game is about the only game this year where I would say the defense did a good enough job to keep us in the game long enough to let BQ & Co. win it for us. We easily could have lost the GT game(how do you not throw it to Calvin Johnson in the second half...AT ALL!!). PSU game could have been very different if PSU could kick a field goal and Morelli didn't get stupid and pitch the ball right to Zibby. MSU, well if John L. Smith had any nuts he would have put about 65 up on us and ended that game after the third quarter. And Purdue, Jesus H., could you please double cover a guy that has 200 yards receiving and halftime. I admit 9-1 looks great but the offense has helped out a ton, Weis eats clock to keep the defense off the field, hes knows its our weakness. Remember the USC game last year? He knew the only way to beat them was to keep them off the field, so we pounded 3 yards and a cloud of dust all day to eat clock. I don't know how anyone can say this defense is better then it was last year, I think its worse, especially for most of theses guys being 2 and three year starters/contributors. The furure looks bright with the talent Weis is recruiting, but to say this defense is anywhere close to being good enough to actually be helpful in winning a championship just means you have your head up your rear.
 
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jerseyborn1971

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It seems that there are two types of people on this thread, those that see the truth about our defense, which is that they are not that good and the offense makes them look much better then they are. And those that see the truth, have accepted it and realize its going to get better with recruiting and time. someone in an earlier post stated that the defense must be ok, we're 9-1, um we're 9-1 because we can put up 40 against just about anybody. The UCLA game is about the only game this year where I would say the defense did a good enough job to keep us in the game long enough to let BQ & Co. win it for us. We easily could have lost the GT game(how do you not throw it to Calvin Johnson in the second half...AT ALL!!). PSU game could have been very different if PSU could kick a field goal and Morelli didn't get stupid and pitch the ball right to Zibby. MSU, well if John L. Smith had any nuts he would have put about 65 up on us and ended that game after the third quarter. And Purdue, Jesus H., could you please double cover a guy that has 200 yards receiving and halftime. I admit 9-1 looks great but the offense has helped out a ton, Weis eats clock to keep the defense off the field, hes knows its our weakness. Remember the USC game last year? He knew the only way to beat them was to keep them off the field, so we pounded 3 yards and a cloud of dust all day to eat clock. I don't know how anyone can say this defense is better then it was last year, I think its worse, especially for most of theses guys being 2 and three year starters/contributors. The furure looks bright with the talent Weis is recruiting, but to say this defense is anywhere close to being good enough to actually be helpful in winning a championship just means you have your head up your rear.

Shoulda, coulda woulda...but didn't. By the way, ND hasn't scored 40 on exactly 1 team all season. This terrible d has given up 20 points only 4 times. You know who else gave up 20+ 4 times this year? USC. But that's different I'm assuming. You should know one person who thinks the d is better. Why? Because the numbers would tell you they are. The defense is ranked 22 spots higher this year compared to last. You're right though, there are 2 kinds of people on this board.

1: People who use hard numbers and facts to back up arguments they make.

And

2: People who ignore those facts because they are personally upset by their perception of where the team should be. Ya know, people that have to bitch about something even when things are going great(9-1 with a real shot to get into the big game). These are the same people who would rather beat Pitt in the Who the F Cares Bowl then lose in the National Championship game.

Now get your head out of your own rear and go to a rival site if all you want to do is bash the d with no facts to back up your argument. Everyone will be agreeing with you there.
 
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Freeman Ara

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Look I know this sounds crazy, but stats lie...use your eyes, what you have actually seen this year, and common sense and if you can still tell me the defense is better, then well I think your lost. Seriously think about ever game this year and not just the outcome, but how they actually played. And there are a total of 2 where they played well, UCLA and PSU. Everyone else ran up numbers on us like we were the JV team. Look we are 9-1 and have a chance at a national chiopionship I think its great, but this conversation is about the defense and honestly they are average at best. Be realistic if anyone can say hey, you know what, I would be happy having this style and quality of defense for Weis's entire tenure, or I think we are good enough on d to win a national title every year. Then you need to wake up. I just don't get how people don't see the problem here.
 

scooper

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Stats lie, yes. But scores are scores and can't be twisted ala stats.

It's not that some don't see what you say is the problem. Others call it a need for improvement. To-may-to. To-mah-to. It's just the annoying whining week after week without offering anything more to justify it than "so and so sucks." Or without recognizing that this team is still undermanned somewhat on the defenisive side of the ball when being compared to the top D's in the country. No matter who the coordinator is, that problem can't be fixed immediately. It's going to take re-stocking.

It's easier to hide deficiencies on offense through gameplanning and scheming because offense dictates where the ball goes on every play. Defense, no matter what the scheme or play call, is reactionary at the core. It's simply tougher to hide your warts, especially when opposing coaches find out those warts.

The defense IS better than last year's. It's not great. Heck, not even good. It's average, which is an improvement. The definition of average is sometimes capable of the stop, sometimes not. That sounds a lot like our defense. As mentioned, they've given up 20+ only four times. And in the worst of those games, the offense didn't help much with 5 turnovers (off which came 14 direct points.)

Again, the defense is better than last year by every measure. Imagine that kind of improvement projected forward. When you have to build a defense from the ground up, there is no magic pill to take. Sometimes it takes time.

When we defend the defense, we are accused of being kool-aid drinkers and blind. That is simply wrong. Everybody sees the issues. But the whiners fail to see that there is nothing that can be immediately done. They fail to see the increase in talent that is being recruited at defense. They apparently fail to see better numbers in 06 than in 05. This inspite of the upperclassmen consisting of a safety that was a QB only until his senior year in HS, a LB that played RB until this year, starting corners that were not recruited as corners and a very shallow line that was underrecruited for a few years. (Yes, even by this staff when it comes to DT). This is what they have to work with.

I for one, think this defense will be improved when the Ryans, Richardsons and Walls of the team get some training, maturity and experience under their belts and are joined not only by their classmates (who were recruited for defense) but also the upcoming class which looks to possibly have some nice defensive athletes coming in.

I'm just not sure what the whiners want to happen immediately, other than to simply vent that "so and so sucks." And quit telling us we're drinking %$#&ing kool-aid. We're not blind. We're simply enjoying our first back to back nine win seasons in a decade.
 

Freeman Ara

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Stats lie, yes. But scores are scores and can't be twisted ala stats.

It's not that some don't see what you say is the problem. Others call it a need for improvement. To-may-to. To-mah-to. It's just the annoying whining week after week without offering anything more to justify it than "so and so sucks." Or without recognizing that this team is still undermanned somewhat on the defenisive side of the ball when being compared to the top D's in the country. No matter who the coordinator is, that problem can't be fixed immediately. It's going to take re-stocking.

It's easier to hide deficiencies on offense through gameplanning and scheming because offense dictates where the ball goes on every play. Defense, no matter what the scheme or play call, is reactionary at the core. It's simply tougher to hide your warts, especially when opposing coaches find out those warts.

The defense IS better than last year's. It's not great. Heck, not even good. It's average, which is an improvement. The definition of average is sometimes capable of the stop, sometimes not. That sounds a lot like our defense. As mentioned, they've given up 20+ only four times. And in the worst of those games, the offense didn't help much with 5 turnovers (off which came 14 direct points.)

Again, the defense is better than last year by every measure. Imagine that kind of improvement projected forward. When you have to build a defense from the ground up, there is no magic pill to take. Sometimes it takes time.

When we defend the defense, we are accused of being kool-aid drinkers and blind. That is simply wrong. Everybody sees the issues. But the whiners fail to see that there is nothing that can be immediately done. They fail to see the increase in talent that is being recruited at defense. They apparently fail to see better numbers in 06 than in 05. This inspite of the upperclassmen consisting of a safety that was a QB only until his senior year in HS, a LB that played RB until this year, starting corners that were not recruited as corners and a very shallow line that was underrecruited for a few years. (Yes, even by this staff when it comes to DT). This is what they have to work with.

I for one, think this defense will be improved when the Ryans, Richardsons and Walls of the team get some training, maturity and experience under their belts and are joined not only by their classmates (who were recruited for defense) but also the upcoming class which looks to possibly have some nice defensive athletes coming in.

I'm just not sure what the whiners want to happen immediately, other than to simply vent that "so and so sucks." And quit telling us we're drinking %$#&ing kool-aid. We're not blind. We're simply enjoying our first back to back nine win seasons in a decade.

I agree with just about everything you say in your post, and honestly I hate everyone whining about the defense too, which you probably think is exactly what I am doing, I'm not. It was the title of the thread so I gave my opinion. and I don't think I have ever called out a player individually saying he sucks.Honestly, I was just trying to open some eyes of people that think the defense isn't as bad as it really is, because a lot of people on these chat boards see the world through rose colored glasses. I'm a realist, I know the current staff has very little depth and talent to work with. I also know when Weis gets his kids in here things will get better. Honestly, I am surprised that people are still shocked that our defense hasn't gotten better. We all knew that if we were going to have a chance at the national title the offense was going to have to out score people. I personally didn't expect major changes this year on defense bringing back nine starters from an average defense last year. And yes thankfully we have won 9 games and still have dreams of a title and I have enjoyed the last two seasons more then just about any season I can rememeber.The future looks bright on both sides of the ball and I can't wait til some of this talent starts showing up on the field.
 

sonomairishfan

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1. I would force Minter to spend time teaching open field tackling. (i don't think he knows how) I am so sick of seeing our players fly in with the shoulder instead of wrapping the ball carrier up. Football 101!!!!

2. I would force Minter to spend time teaching basic footwork in the secondary. Our guys have the speed. They just don't have basic fundamentals. They get beat because of poor foot speed. (i don't think Minter knows how to teach this)

3. Increase the amount of zone blitzes. (somebody already state this, i second this)

4. 3rd down pass protection. When it is 3rd and 5, don't give every WR a 5 yard cushion. Sometimes you have to chance it with a bump and run. Maybe have Zibby or Duke slide over top to protect deep pass.

5. Run Defense. We do decent here. But I don't like the gap play of our linebackers this year. I would focus on filling gaps, especially before the USC game.

6. Movement before the play. I never see us faking a blitz. We always show exactly what set we are in. That makes it too easy for a decent QB.
 

scooper

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1. I would force Minter to spend time teaching open field tackling. (i don't think he knows how) I am so sick of seeing our players fly in with the shoulder instead of wrapping the ball carrier up. Football 101!!!!
This has frustrated me to no end. With better tackling, for example, the North Carolina game would have been a 30+ point win.
 
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