The Navy Hangover

[subwaydomer26]

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[irish4ever]

WTF was Weis thinking when they went for it on 4th down around the 50 yard line (w/ Sharley @ QB)? That whole last 2+ min. debacle possibly could have been avoided by punting it out of there (even on 25-30 yds. out of bounds) and make Navy go the length of the field. I was truly perplexed on that call.

 

[phork]

Was that the only call you shook your head at?

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

WTF was Weis thinking when they went for it on 4th down around the 50 yard line (w/ Sharley @ QB)? That whole last 2+ min. debacle possibly could have been avoided by punting it out of there (even on 25-30 yds. out of bounds) and make Navy go the length of the field. I was truly perplexed on that call.

Up until 2:30 to go, Navy had 1 first down in the entire SECOND HALF.

I assume, based on that, Weis figured we could hold them in check.

Does not seem that unreasonable an expectation does it?

 

[irish4ever]

Does not seem that unreasonable an expectation does it?

Yes, it does seem unreasonable! To me it was a major gaffe on the coach's part and the proof is in the pudding ... it just about came back to bite them in the ass!

 

[phork]

Up until 2:30 to go, Navy had 1 first down in the entire SECOND HALF.

I assume, based on that, Weis figured we could hold them in check.

Does not seem that unreasonable an expectation does it?

Sure its unreasonable. For a team that pretty much every other team that Navy has played knows that they will get their yards and Charlie Weis himself said that you know whats coming and you just can't stop it, why chance it with your second string in? Your first string D has been practicing to stop this attack all week, why stop now? Its not like it was 49-7 with a quarter to play...

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

Sure its unreasonable. For a team that pretty much every other team that Navy has played knows that they will get their yards and Charlie Weis himself said that you know whats coming and you just can't stop it, why chance it with your second string in? Your first string D has been practicing to stop this attack all week, why stop now? Its not like it was 49-7 with a quarter to play...

The second team was practicing too.

And Charlie can say it can't be stopped, but he's blowing smoke. The 1st team OWNED navy all game.

The reason to put in the second stringers is practice. with 2:30 to go, it's completely unexpected that Navy will put up 3TDs due to 2 onsides kicks.

Weis took a lot of crap his first two years for never putting in the backups. So he changed and has done a little. Now he catches crap for it.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

Yes, it does seem unreasonable! To me it was a major gaffe on the coach's part and the proof is in the pudding ... it just about came back to bite them in the ass!

It's what we called for him to do for 2 years...it was not a major gaffe. It was a chance to build needed depth. As we saw from the injuries duriing the Navy game: DEPTH MATTERS.

 

[phork]

The second team was practicing too.

And Charlie can say it can't be stopped, but he's blowing smoke. The 1st team OWNED navy all game.

The reason to put in the second stringers is practice. with 2:30 to go, it's completely unexpected that Navy will put up 3TDs due to 2 onsides kicks.

Weis took a lot of crap his first two years for never putting in the backups. So he changed and has done a little. Now he catches crap for it.

Clearly the second does not get the amount of reps the first team does. Saying that, with our D experienced players, as thin as they are, would you have put in the second string?

1st allowed 200 yards rushing, while its clearly below their average, its still a high number. I wouldn't have made that call.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Clearly the second does not get the amount of reps the first team does. Saying that, with our D experienced players, as thin as they are, would you have put in the second string?

1st allowed 200 yards rushing, while its clearly below their average, its still a high number. I wouldn't have made that call.

Phork, IT'S NOT a HIGH NUMBER!!! We've gone through this so many times! You just said it's way below their average! When all a team does is run, and we hold them way below their average, that means the defense did a hell of a job! Why don't you understand this? Do you hate ND? Do you hate CW so much that you refuse to admit that our beloved team does anything right? Are you serious?

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

Clearly the second does not get the amount of reps the first team does. Saying that, with our D experienced players, as thin as they are, would you have put in the second string?

1st allowed 200 yards rushing, while its clearly below their average, its still a high number. I wouldn't have made that call.

Yes I would have put in the 2nd string.

Ummm...Navy got 178 Rush yards TOTAL in the game.
ESPN - Notre Dame holds off Navy in final minutes for tense victory - NCAA College Football Recap

The 2nd team gave up 28 yards on the 1st drive.

So the 1st string AT MOST gave up 150 yards to Navy on the Ground. That's less than half their average.

Navy got 64 yards passing total...almost all of that came at the end of the game. (54 yards to be exact)

So the 1st string gave up less than 150 yards rushing and 10 yards passing before the second string walked on...

Yeah, I woulda put in the second string for sure.

 

[phork]

Phork, IT'S NOT a HIGH NUMBER!!! We've gone through this so many times! You just said it's way below their average! When all a team does is run, and we hold them way below their average, that means the defense did a hell of a job! Why don't you understand this? Do you hate ND? Do you hate CW so much that you refuse to admit that our beloved team does anything right? Are you serious?

So many times? Its not high because they haven't played anyone with a defense in 5 years. I gave the D all the credit in this game, in fact if it wasnt for them carrying the game you can file this one under the L.

 

[NDinL.A.]

So many times? Its not high because they haven't played anyone with a defense in 5 years. I gave the D all the credit in this game, in fact if it wasnt for them carrying the game you can file this one under the L.

There you go making baseless, wild claims with zero facts. Ummm, SoCal already burned you on that specifically (talking about Navy's opponents) on another thread. Do you really need to be burned on 2 separate threads?

You sure have a funny way of giving credit, that is for sure. You need to re-read your posts. All you did was disparage Navy's schedule whenever anyone gave credit to the D.

Whatever. Like I said, your hatred for CW clouds anything positive ND does...

 

[phork]

Hatred for CW? Eh? Impatience maybe, but clearly not hatred.
SoCal did not burn me on that thread. Sorry to burst your bubble. My point was that Navy has not played anyone of consequence in pretty much the last 5 years. So saying that we were the last team to hold them under their average as being a terrific thing is a little misleading.

He said, and I quote:

So by my count, going back to that 2006 Rutgers game, 10 BCS schools and one of the top non-BCS schools (Utah) were not able to hold Navy to as few of yards as the 2008 ND defense did. That includes the 2006 ND defense.

To which I replied that a differentiation needs to be made that just because you are in a BCS conference, does not make you BCS talented, and I stand by that. Please re-read his post and my reply to it. My point being that holding them to under their average is really not all that impressive. Frankly I would love to see what would happen if they played Florida or USC. My money is on they gain even less. Ask Hawaii how their greatest show on turf made out, outside of the WAC.

I'm not exactly sure where mediocrity become common place and generally accepted and applauded around here. I am damn pissed about the direction and lack of personality of this team. Has their been moments of brilliance? Sure there has. But as a lot of people have pointed out, a couple of plays separates us from 8-2. Sadly a couple plays also separates us from 3-7.

Somewhere along the line I was labeled a Weis hater. And while I don't hate anyone I grow more impatient and frustrated with him as the weeks go by. Simply because we have seen those flashes and we all know how good this team can be. I have never once called for Weis' head, but after next year we'll see what happens. I have stated before and I will state again, anything less than 11-1 and a BCS game and this team is UNDER-achieving.

I do not cheer for my team, any less or any more than you do. We are all fans, obviously. We all came here to share our thoughts with fellow fans. If you don't like the critical posts, then DON'T READ THEM. As a fan I am entitled to criticize my team when I feel there is something wrong. As a fan I am entitled to support my team win or lose.
I haven't called anyone names, I don't use vulgarity in my posts and I generally present valid points for consumption and debate. Why have a message board if all your going to have on it is a bunch of goody goody do gooders? Sorry if I rub you the wrong way, its how I roll. I call it as I see it. Obviously judging by the other fan sites and blogs I read I am not the only one.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Hatred for CW? Eh? Impatience maybe, but clearly not hatred.
SoCal did not burn me on that thread. Sorry to burst your bubble. My point was that Navy has not played anyone of consequence in pretty much the last 5 years. So saying that we were the last team to hold them under their average as being a terrific thing is a little misleading.

He said, and I quote:


To which I replied that a differentiation needs to be made that just because you are in a BCS conference, does not make you BCS talented, and I stand by that. Please re-read his post and my reply to it. My point being that holding them to under their average is really not all that impressive. Frankly I would love to see what would happen if they played Florida or USC. My money is on they gain even less. Ask Hawaii how their greatest show on turf made out, outside of the WAC.

I'm not exactly sure where mediocrity become common place and generally accepted and applauded around here. I am damn pissed about the direction and lack of personality of this team. Has their been moments of brilliance? Sure there has. But as a lot of people have pointed out, a couple of plays separates us from 8-2. Sadly a couple plays also separates us from 3-7.
Somewhere along the line I was labeled a Weis hater. And while I don't hate anyone I grow more impatient and frustrated with him as the weeks go by. Simply because we have seen those flashes and we all know how good this team can be. I have never once called for Weis' head, but after next year we'll see what happens. I have stated before and I will state again, anything less than 11-1 and a BCS game and this team is UNDER-achieving.

I do not cheer for my team, any less or any more than you do. We are all fans, obviously. We all came here to share our thoughts with fellow fans. If you don't like the critical posts, then DON'T READ THEM. As a fan I am entitled to criticize my team when I feel there is something wrong. As a fan I am entitled to support my team win or lose.
I haven't called anyone names, I don't use vulgarity in my posts and I generally present valid points for consumption and debate. Why have a message board if all your going to have on it is a bunch of goody goody do gooders? Sorry if I rub you the wrong way, its how I roll. I call it as I see it. Obviously judging by the other fan sites and blogs I read I am not the only one.

I'm not that good at managing quotes, so just check out what I bolded, and that's what I'm replying to:

1. Bubble not bursted. I read the posts again, and he burned you. Sorry.

2. The reason for calling it a dominating performance was a combination of 2 things: 1, the numbers, and 2, the way they played. Being disciplined, tackling, being in the right spots, attacking the ballcarriers, etc. It was great to watch, no matter the opponent. Navy gains those yards, as SoCal pointed out, against some ranked teams. NOt USC ranked, but teams of a certain significance. Your obvious bias against CW does not allow you to admit that. Whatever.

3. And there's a counter to the Hawaii argument: Ask Oklahoma how they feel about Boise St.

4. Agreed.

5. I have no problem with critical posts. I'm critical at times too. It's when people just say things out of anger or hate but that are based on nothing but anger and hate, that's when I'll counter. I prefer intelligent talk myself. Like when you always bring up Nick Saban and how great he's doing but at the same time you say you don't want to hear about how he can recruit JUCO's and non-qualifiers. Well how can you talk about one but not the other? Those are the things I'm talking about. Or when you say our defense wasn't that impressive against Navy but then you say you give all the credit to the D. Huh? We should all discuss and vent etc, but don't be stupid about it. That's when we become an Alabama board.

6. Call it as you see it, that's fine. That's what we all do, in our own way. But don't get hurt when you get called out for it. I'm more of a realist, but I find myself siding with the optimists more and more. They actually seem more 'real' than the others. Some of us sound like spoiled brats on here. "I want an NC NOWWWWWW!!!!" Off a 3-9 season??? Are you serious? C'mon guys. Next year will be the year to jus=dge CW. I'm in full agreement there...

 

[phork]

I'm not that good at managing quotes, so just check out what I bolded, and that's what I'm replying to:

1. Bubble not bursted. I read the posts again, and he burned you. Sorry.

Please enlighten me on how that happened?

2. The reason for calling it a dominating performance was a combination of 2 things: 1, the numbers, and 2, the way they played. Being disciplined, tackling, being in the right spots, attacking the ballcarriers, etc. It was great to watch, no matter the opponent. Navy gains those yards, as SoCal pointed out, against some ranked teams. NOt USC ranked, but teams of a certain significance. Your obvious bias against CW does not allow you to admit that. Whatever.

Like I said, there needs to be lines drawn. For instance Oklahoma/Texas etc are consistently better than the Kansas's and KSU's in the Big12. You cannot beat Baylor and Iowa St. and say you owned the Big12.

3. And there's a counter to the Hawaii argument: Ask Oklahoma how they feel about Boise St.

Georgia 41, Hawaii 10. Boise St. 43 Oklahoma 42.

5. I have no problem with critical posts. I'm critical at times too. It's when people just say things out of anger or hate but that are based on nothing but anger and hate, that's when I'll counter. I prefer intelligent talk myself. Like when you always bring up Nick Saban and how great he's doing but at the same time you say you don't want to hear about how he can recruit JUCO's and non-qualifiers. Well how can you talk about one but not the other? Those are the things I'm talking about. Or when you say our defense wasn't that impressive against Navy but then you say you give all the credit to the D. Huh? We should all discuss and vent etc, but don't be stupid about it. That's when we become an Alabama board.

You can have all the players in the world, but if you can't coach you won't win. JUCOS or not Saban is 11-0 and headed to the SEC Championship. With his predecessor's recruits, who apparently didn't know how to play until Saban arrived.
I still don't understand where this whole "I hate Charlie" thing comes in. I am highly critical of mistakes made in the program, because I can be.
And again with putting words in my mouth. I never said our D was unimpressive. I said Holding someone to 200 yards is embarrassing. And yes, if the D didn't play up this game, we lose.

6. Call it as you see it, that's fine. That's what we all do, in our own way. But don't get hurt when you get called out for it. I'm more of a realist, but I find myself siding with the optimists more and more. They actually seem more 'real' than the others. Some of us sound like spoiled brats on here. "I want an NC NOWWWWWW!!!!" Off a 3-9 season??? Are you serious? C'mon guys. Next year will be the year to jus=dge CW. I'm in full agreement there...

Call me out, thats why I am here. I was an optimist at the beginning of the season but I have been slowly beaten against the rock and have lost my edge in that regard. I never said I wanted a NC now but we should be better than this. And as you use SoCal's post, so shall I since he brings up a good point. Duke has had 10 wins from the 2002 season through the 2007 season. For those counting at home thats 1.7 wins per year. 4 wins already this year, almost 6 with close losses to Northwestern & Wake Forest.
With their team they beat Navy by 10 points, and held them to 207 yards. Cutliffe is in his first year coaching there.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Georgia 41, Hawaii 10. Boise St. 43 Oklahoma 42.

And again with putting words in my mouth. I never said our D was unimpressive. I said Holding someone to 200 yards is embarrassing. And yes, if the D didn't play up this game, we lose.

(I'm glad you say that CW's next year is the year to truly judge him.)

1. Soooo, Boise St. didn't prove anything to Oklahoma because they only won by one point in one of the most exciting comebacks in NCAA history? Ummm, OK.

2. The fact that you don't see the hypocricy in your statement about our defense pretty much sums up our argument. I mean, our defense was impressive, and they saved us the game, according to you, but yet (according to you) at the exact same time the defense was embarrassing. Ummmmmmmmm, OK. That is where I leave this argument. No more needs to be said. Peace...

 

[phork]

1. Boise St is a good team, anyone can see that, was it surprising? Sure it was, but they have been a solid program for a while, just not able to prove it. Hindsight is 20-20. Everyone hyped up Hawaii and they got their ass handed to them, as was expected.

2. Are you drunk? I just said that our Defense won us that game. Building up Navy's 300yds/game rushing on the basis of the number alone is insane, check out who they ran over to get that mark. DUKE held them to 207 yards.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

Hatred for CW? Eh? Impatience maybe, but clearly not hatred.
...

I'm not exactly sure where mediocrity become common place and generally accepted and applauded around here. I am damn pissed about the direction and lack of personality of this team...

I don't use vulgarity in my posts and I generally present valid points for consumption and debate. Why have a message board if all your going to have on it is a bunch of goody goody do gooders? Sorry if I rub you the wrong way, its how I roll. I call it as I see it. Obviously judging by the other fan sites and blogs I read I am not the only one.

Great post. Dayum this site full of MENSA fools or sumsin?
I am thinkin the lack of personality is based on:

1. History of officials flaggin ND for smiling wrong, and
B. Coaches raggin on athletes for celebrating.

Any perceived lack of direction probably a result of the youth of the staff and athletes. They all a bunch of proven champions coming together. I say give it two more years before I go punch another puppy.

 

[phork]

Any perceived lack of direction probably a result of the youth of the staff and athletes. They all a bunch of proven champions coming together. I say give it two more years before I go punch another puppy.

Can I come? I like to punch puppies.

 

[NDinL.A.]

1. Boise St is a good team, anyone can see that, was it surprising? Sure it was, but they have been a solid program for a while, just not able to prove it. Hindsight is 20-20. Everyone hyped up Hawaii and they got their ass handed to them, as was expected.

2. Are you drunk? I just said that our Defense won us that game. Building up Navy's 300yds/game rushing on the basis of the number alone is insane, check out who they ran over to get that mark. DUKE held them to 207 yards.

Wait, the defense won us that game, but they were embarrassing. Ummm, OK. And you call me drunk???

 

[phork]

Look. The fact is that pumping up Navy's running game, in light of who they have played, is ridiculous. So let me clarify my statement. In DIV1A Football, when someone runs for 200 yards on your team it is widely accepted that it is not a GOOD thing.

Saying that, the defense won the game for ND. Yes you can have your cake and eat it to.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Bravo. You managed to justify your twisted words (in your own head). Congrats.

Here's my image of you on Saturday:

"Defense, you suck!!!! You are an embarrassment to the University of Notre Dame!!! Almost 200 yards rushing to a team that averages over 300 yards! If it weren't for you, we would have lost this game!!! You saved us!"

OK. Whatever you say Phork.

BTW, your argument is the exact same as saying (a few years ago) that a team that held Texas Tech to under 400 yards passing (even though ALL THEY DO IS THROW) and beat them an embarrassing performance by the defense...

 

[phork]

Here is a question for you:

Is letting a team run over you for 200 yards in a game, ok with you?

 

[NDinL.A.]

Here is a question for you:

Is letting a team run over you for 200 yards in a game, ok with you?

First of all, they ran for 178 yards.

To answer your question: Let's see, if we held them to ONLY 64 YARDS PASSING and 120+ less than than their rushing average, and we won the game handily (if not for CW unforgivably calling off the dogs), then yeah, I'm OK with it. I get the fact that a team that is only going to rush the ball is going to get some yards rushing. And if they do NEXT TO NOTHING against my first team for pretty much the entire game, then yeah, I'm OK with that.

It's unfathomable to me how you say in one breath how embarrassing the defense played and that you are not OK woth their performance, but yet in the next breath you give them credit for winning the game for us.

:jawdrop:

 

[phork]

Do you know how to read? Can you comprehend what you read? I never once said our defense was embarrassing, in fact I have given them credit for the win. In your blind rage of trying to prove me wrong you've neglected the initial statement.

And I still stick by the fact that had Navy played anyone of consequence (Re: Florida, Oklahoma, USC) the total would have been much much less.

 

[NDinL.A.]

I'm not angry, there's no rage here. I'm just laughing at your hypocrisy.

I can read. Can you think? You said it's embarrassing to give up 200 yards to Navy (it was actually only 178). Whose defense did that? Oh, it was ours. Interesting. But yet you give the defense credit for winning the game, even off an embarrassing performance. 'Nuff said.

LOL.

 

[phork]

So obviously you can't read. Because I said, and I quote, "Holding a team to 200 yards rushing is embarrassing."
I never said Navy, in fact I didn't mention any team. The fact is, that it is not something you would want on a resume showcasing your Defense.

Just because you win 100-99 doesn't mean the defense didn't win the game, because the final outcome might have been 130-100.

With that said, I am done with you.

 

[NDinL.A.]

So obviously you can't read. Because I said, and I quote, "Holding a team to 200 yards rushing is embarrassing."
I never said Navy, in fact I didn't mention any team. The fact is, that it is not something you would want on a resume showcasing your Defense.

Just because you win 100-99 doesn't mean the defense didn't win the game, because the final outcome might have been 130-100.

With that said, I am done with you.

Yawn. So the thread is entitle "The Navy Hangover" and we held NAVY to under 200 yards, but we're supposed to assume you WEREN'T talking about Navy??? Are you for real?

To recap: Holding someone, anyone, to just under 200 yards is embarrassing. We played Navy and held them to less than 200 yards. You say that that kind of performance is embarrassing. You give "all the credit to the ND defense" and that "they carried the day".

Wow. That's be crazy if my boss said that my type of performance was embarrassing, but that same performance carried the day and save d the company. I'd be confused. But in your world, that's just fine.

Done with me??? Ummm, I chewed up your argument and spit it out. I've been wrong plenty before, but this one is just laughable.

Next.

 

[IrishFan4Life]

Was it me, or did they just use the same play over and over again?