The Mitchell Report Cometh

[ab2cmiller]

Full List of Names
Names in the Mitchell report - MLB - Yahoo! Sports

NEW NAMES

Chad Allen
Mike Bell
Gary Bennett
Larry Bigbie
Kevin Brown
Alex Cabrera
Mark Carreon
Jason Christiansen
Howie Clark
Roger Clemens
Jack Cust
Brendan Donnelly
Chris Donnels
Matt Franco
Eric Gagne
Matt Herges
Phil Hiatt
Glenallen Hill
Todd Hundley
Mike Judd
David Justice
Chuck Knoblauch
Tim Laker
Mike Lansing
Paul Lo Duca
Nook Logan
Josias Manzanillo
Cody McKay
Kent Mercker
Bart Miadich
Hal Morris
Daniel Naulty
Denny Neagle
Jim Parque
Andy Pettitte
Adam Piatt
Todd Pratt
Stephen Randolph
Adam Riggs
Armando Rios
Brian Roberts
F.P. Santangelo
Mike Stanton
Ricky Stone
Miguel Tejada
Ismael Valdez
Mo Vaughn
Ron Villone
Fernando Vina
Rondell White
Jeff Williams
Todd Williams
Steve Woodard
Kevin Young
Gregg Zaun


PREVIOUSLY LINKED

Manny Alexander
Rick Ankiel
David Bell
Marvin Benard
Barry Bonds
Ricky Bones
Paul Byrd
Jose Canseco
Paxton Crawford
Lenny Dykstra
Bobby Estalella
Ryan Franklin
Jason Giambi
Jeremy Giambi
Jay Gibbons
Troy Glaus
Juan Gonzalez
Jason Grimsley
Jose Guillen
Jerry Hairston Jr.
Darren Holmes
Ryan Jorgensen
Gary Matthews Jr.
Rafael Palmeiro
John Rocker
Benito Santiago
Scott Schoeneweis
David Segui
Gary Sheffield
Randy Velarde
Matt Williams

 

[Newc]

Reps for putting together an easy-to-read list.

 

[Sureal]

Good call...I forgot about that one. A little too wrapped up in searching for Sox names.

Ditto. This report reports nothing new. We all pretty much knew about the names for a while so IMO the Mitchell Report stated the obvious... There are really no surprising names on the list, even Clemens. It was long rumored that he was on something.

 

[Newc]

This report has brought up a very interesting debate, mainly based around Clemens because he is one of the best of all time as well as being named by Mitchell. So should guys on this list be considered for the Hall of Fame, most notably Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds??

 

[ACamp1900]

Randy Velarde? RANDY VELARDE???? What's next, Mike Gallego taking shots in the butt? Give me a break ...

Man, do the Yanks come out looking bad here or what?

My parents grew up with Randy... and we know his family... lol

 

[ACamp1900]

Least suprising aspect of the list... 20 Yankees... one pigeon from EACH New York team... so much for impartial... not that New York baseball is beyond beating up but the radio ways and media were brutal today... like only those in NY pinstripes injected... lol

btw, how many Sox are actually on the list... three?

 

[IrishFan4Life]

Reps for putting together an easy-to-read list.

I second that

 

[SoCalDomer]

This report has brought up a very interesting debate, mainly based around Clemens because he is one of the best of all time as well as being named by Mitchell. So should guys on this list be considered for the Hall of Fame, most notably Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds??

Yes, it is an interesting issue. Of course, the media is going to focus on the race difference between them and use that as a reason Bonds will still continue to have more negativity for his alleged used. I think they both deserve the same amount of contempt, but considering Bonds is a less likeable guy, even by those who played MLB, it won't surprise me if he still receives more public scorn.

What I posted earlier:

IMO, I think a blanket ban from the Hall of Fame for anybody who played during the steriod era. This morning on First Take, they debated whether Clemens and Bonds deserve to be there. The arguments for both of them were that they were both HOF material before we have evidence of them taking drugs. That is such a weak argument.

1) So what. You don't reward cheaters.
2) There will not be any punishment for the cheating, allowing them into the HOF only adds to the complete lack of punishment for cheaters.
3) The process of determining who was a HOF candidate before we think they took drugs is so completely subjective as to render that argument completely meritless.

The most likely response to my opinion is that it is unfair to those who did not take the steroids but might otherwise be HOF material. To that I respond:

1) Only a handful of players have come out and been honest about their own use or what they know about other players. Honesty is completely lacking in baseball. People who've said they never did, turn around and fail a test. Others refuse to answer questions, taking the 5th or just refuse to talk about it. Even this "study" will not reveal everyone who cheated.
2) Those who did not take them likely knew who did and sat idly by and did nothing about it. I know Wham didn't like this quote from me: "All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." The "good players" (non-cheaters) did nothing, now they live with the consequences.
3) It's the players' union that bears a good bit of the fault for allowing this culture to exist. The union protects cheaters by refusing to agree to any kind of drug testing (until recently). The non-cheaters allowed the union to do so and went along with it. Therefore the non-cheaters are just as guilty by agreeing to allow the union to protect the cheaters and stifle any efforts to root out drugs in baseball. The non-cheaters should have insisted on drug testing, because they were more likely to lose money, possibly lose a career because they couldn't compete with enhanced players. That leads me to believe that a majority (meaning more than 50%) of the players used them. If less than a majority used them, the the non-cheating majority could have easily out-voted the minority cheaters and agreed to a drug testing policy

There may also be those who argue: "who cares, players should be allowed to ingest whatever they want so long as they accept the consequences. Afterall, it's just entertainment."

1) The entertainment argument is weak. If we're not interested in legitimate competition, why not just have the games scripted. Before the game, the teams will decide who gets to hit homeruns, how many runs are scored, how many strikeouts, etc. That would ensure you're entertainment is maximized. "But then it's fake, no longer a game." Exactly, but that's what entertainment is: fake. Baseball is a competition, not entertainment, at least is should be. The fact that it might be entertaining does not change the basic premise: players compete on a level playing field with the objective to score more runs than the opponent.
2) The ripple effect of allowing the players to take the drugs is that it requires minor leaguers and college players to do so, and on down the competition chain. If I'm a minor leaguer or college player and one day I am going to have to compete with steroid enhanced players, no scout is going to look at me unless I appear that I can compete at that level. But I will never make the minor leagues or college unless I start now. "I need an edge. I should start taking the steroids now, so that I can compete with them sooner."

Ok, I'm done. Don't feel the need to respond. Just venting.

 

[kjones]

As long as there is proof that they took steroids, keep them out by all means. Whether we all think they are guilty or not, it's just a bad moral precedent to condemn someone for something you cannot prove they did. Now I realize that this moral high ground is easier for me, because I really could care less about the Hall of Fame's, and baseball's in particular. There's so many players in them, it just kinda loses meaning for me, anyone good who plays a while gets in it seems like. But I digress.

Personally, I think in terms of raw skill, Bonds was probably one of the best baseball players who's ever played, and it's a shame he felt he needed to juice, though he's probably one of the worst human beings who's played baseball. But then we talk about some of the older greats who where even worse with a kind of nostalgia (I'm looking at you Ty Cobb).

Either way, if you can prove Bonds did steroids: 1. he's probably going to jail, and 2. he should have a lifetime ban, just like Pete Rose. But I'd like there to be no room for debate, no room for whiners and apologists to wriggle. Either you can prove it or you can't, and to me, that should decide it. I'd be willing to live with Bonds in the HoF if they can't prove it, because it just seems unfair to me to punish someone without that proof. But then I realize I have an overdeveloped sense of fairness and I don't expect anyone else to agree with me.

Of course this is all just my opinion, but then I don't have anyone else's opinion to give .

 

[SoCalDomer]

kjones, you raise good arguments.

This isn't all that unlike the Black Sox scandal, where the players were actually criminally prosecuted but found not guilty.

The newly hired commissioner nonetheless kicked them all out of baseball because there was enough evidence of cheating. So I don't have alot of faith in this commissioner who wink winked at the problem the whole way through this.

 

[ACamp1900]

kjones, you raise good arguments.

This isn't all that unlike the Black Sox scandal, where the players were actually criminally prosecuted but found not guilty.

The commissioner nonetheless kicked them all out of baseball because there was enough evidence of cheating. But that was back when commissioners had integrity. So I don't have alot of faith in this commissioner who wink winked at the problem the whole way through this.

There was no commissioner when the black sox scandal occured... the scandal was the very reason FOR a commissioner... also I think stating kenesaw mountain landis was a man of great integrity is certainly a challengable statement...

 

[kjones]

Kenesaw Mountain Landis (November 20, 1866 – November 25, 1944) was an American jurist who served as a federal judge from 1905 to 1922, and subsequently as the first commissioner of Major League Baseball. Born in Millville, Ohio, to Abraham Hoch Landis and Mary (Kumler) Landis. He grew up in Logansport, Indiana where, at the age of 17, he played on and managed the Logansport High School baseball team. He later dropped out of school to take a job at the courthouse in South Bend, Indiana. He died in Chicago in 1944.

interesting huh?

 

[KamaraPolice]

Hello..... the MITCHELL report... like the guy is gonna turn in his own team... every single team EXCEPT the sox will probably be involved... just another reason to hate that slimy organization... first they trade the Babe for a Broadway play... then years of ineptness... then long standing racism... then collusion followed by an overly bitter fan base... now this.

go Boston!

I love it.

God forbid we name schilling; the bloody sox fiasco has given him permanent immunity from steroids and hgh allegations.

 

[Sureal]

Who is watching the hearing today?

 

[onenybrother]

Me.

 

[Rocket's Rocket Fan]

I've been watching some of it between classes.

 

[ACamp1900]

Home sick today... so I'm watching...

 

[onenybrother]

Hope you feel better Camp. Can't wait to see Clemen's and the rest of the cheats next month.

 

[Sureal]

What happened today? Just a lot of preliminary crap?

 

[SoCalDomer]

i didn't watch, but probably a bunch of congressmen and women spouting off and chiding MLB, Player's Union, etc.

 

[ACamp1900]

What happened today? Just a lot of preliminary crap?

Exactly as SoCal quessed... at one point Bus S. and Donald F. were basically called hypocrites for allowing this to happen yet up holding Joe Jackson's suspension... stating cheating is cheating and you knew about this...

i didn't watch, but probably a bunch of congressmen and women spouting off and chiding MLB, Player's Union, etc.