The Brian Kelly Thread

[I Dont Miss Charlie]

It appears that the Home Runs are out. Meyer is not coming, Stoops is not coming, and Gruden definetly is not coming.

Swarbrick needs to get up off his ass and interview at least 15 candidates for this job, instead of just going directly to Brian Kelly to gauge his interest.

My only question, is what exactly makes Brian Kelly a better candidate than Charlie Weis?
You hear people talk about how good of a guy he is, Charlie received the same comments from people who met him.

Does his success at Grand Valley State in D2 mean anything, when his replacement at GVSU has done even better than Kelly did.

Kelly's selling point right now is his very good offensive system at Cincinatti, but his defense is still average.

 

[WeisWeisBaby]

We should've kept Charlie for one more year, this is going to be bad

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

For starters, he's actually been a head coach before...

 

[Aerosmith777]

Well, here's the rub first off. You can hire anybody and it not work out. Look at Louisville right now. A few years ago Steve Kragthorpe was a hot commodity, taking Tulsa to a 29-12 record over 4 seasons, and it has obviously not worked out. So it could not work anywhere.

That said, one difference from Kelly to Weis is he has actual head coaching experience at the college level. His work at GVSU does count for something despite it being Div-II, but don't forget his work at Central Michigan and of course Cincinnati. His teams improved every year he was at CMU in his 3-year term, and now he has the Bearcats on the verge of a perfect season and a second consecutive Big East Championship. Even if they lose to Pitt and lose again in their bowl game, they will still have won 33 games in the past 3 years. Besides all that, also unlike Weis, Kelly is actually schooled on both sides of the ball. His last non-head coach coaching job was defensive coordinator at GVSU. But he has also proven to be a legitimate QB guru during his time with the Bearcats.

So I think there are a lot of reasons Kelly is more appealing right now than another year of Weis. But all that said, when you're a premier program looking for a new head coach, you can hire a hot candidate at a smaller program and it not work out as with Kragthorpe, so its no guarantee. But to be fair, it also does work out a good portion of the time. Just look at Urban Meyer.

 

[wallym]

Well, here's the rub first off. You can hire anybody and it not work out. Look at Louisville right now. A few years ago Steve Kragthorpe was a hot commodity, taking Tulsa to a 29-12 record over 4 seasons, and it has obviously not worked out. So it could not work anywhere.

That said, one difference from Kelly to Weis is he has actual head coaching experience at the college level. His work at GVSU does count for something despite it being Div-II, but don't forget his work at Central Michigan and of course Cincinnati. His teams improved every year he was at CMU in his 3-year term, and now he has the Bearcats on the verge of a perfect season and a second consecutive Big East Championship. Even if they lose to Pitt and lose again in their bowl game, they will still have won 33 games in the past 3 years. Besides all that, also unlike Weis, Kelly is actually schooled on both sides of the ball. His last non-head coach coaching job was defensive coordinator at GVSU. But he has also proven to be a legitimate QB guru during his time with the Bearcats.

So I think there are a lot of reasons Kelly is more appealing right now than another year of Weis. But all that said, when you're a premier program looking for a new head coach, you can hire a hot candidate at a smaller program and it not work out as with Kragthorpe, so its no guarantee. But to be fair, it also does work out a good portion of the time. Just look at Urban Meyer.

Good response, and I agree. One other thing is his passion, ability to motivate, energy, sideline demeanor, and overall being a good "face" for a program.

I'm in the school of thought that we have someone already lined-up, and wouldn't/shouldn't have fired Weis if we didn't. If JS relieved Charlie without this, then we are going to have some problems.

 

[I Dont Miss Charlie]

We should've kept Charlie for one more year, this is going to be bad

Im going to say this with a straight face, once again.

We should have kept Charlie Weis for one more season, a line drive hire is not worth $40 Million(cost of Charlie & his staff's buyouts, along with new coach & staff's contracts).

There is going to be minimal support for Brian Kelly if hired, hes a good coach but hes just the hot candidate right now. Hes an offensive minded coach, with no BCS pedigree as an assistant.

The best hire at this point for Swarbrick to make is to hire a young assistant like Muschamp,Smart,Reaves,or one of our young assistants and spin the media & alumni on him being the right guy for the job despite his age, and that Notre Dame needs to build with a young coach rather than following the past high priced coaching scenarios.

 

[IrishInFl]

As a head coach, Kelly has one losing record. This was his first year coaching at CMU, a team that had not been to a bowl game since 1994. Despite you claiming him not being a good recruiter, Kelly has brought in better classes (at least according to rivals) than his predecessors. He also is proven to develop players well. The best example that comes to mind is Joe Staley from CMU, whom later became a first round NFL draft pick. He came into a Cincinnati program with previous classes by Dantonio that were comprised of mostly 2* players, with a sprinkle of 3* players. He has developed these players well, like Mickens and Gilyard. The current recruiting classes (most likely due to success) is far superior than that of any of Dantonio's classes, comprising of mostly 3*, and a single 4*. The previous class was also better (according to rivals) than any class of Dantonio's.

As to why a d2 coach is assumed to be able to succeed, an example of a lower level coach making it in the big conferences is Jim Tressel. Tressel had success, including one national championship.

Now let us review Charlie Weis's head coaching college football success prior to Notre Dame... oh wait! He had no college football success! As far as I know, he also had no head coaching experience (I could be wrong on that).

 

[Rudy89]

I hope he does well but I dunno after all the hype on Charlie and nothing spectacular coming of it I just dont know. But before he does well I hope they actually hire him

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

Im going to say this with a straight face, once again.

We should have kept Charlie Weis for one more season

Can I ask why you and others keep saying this? And I am not talking about rationalizations for keeping him, I mean why bother wasting the calories in typing those words? The fact is they DIDN'T keep him for one more season. He's not coming back. What anyone should have done is moot at this point. I can name a thousand things Charlie himself should have done, but it would be pointless now.

 

[Aerosmith777]

Now let us review Charlie Weis's head coaching college football success prior to Notre Dame... oh wait! He had no college football success! As far as I know, he also had no head coaching experience (I could be wrong on that).

Well, he was head coach of a high school program somewhere here in Jersey like 20 years ago....He did win a state title in that capacity I believe....lol

 

[IHateMarkMay]

I just don't understand replacing an offensive guru with an offensive guru. Kelly's teams are letting up a lot of points and are outscoring out opponents and ND is a TD away from doing that. It just seems like we'll have the same problems with Kelly. That is just my opinion.

 

[Aerosmith777]

Im going to say this with a straight face, once again.

We should have kept Charlie Weis for one more season, a line drive hire is not worth $40 Million(cost of Charlie & his staff's buyouts, along with new coach & staff's contracts).

There is going to be minimal support for Brian Kelly if hired, hes a good coach but hes just the hot candidate right now. Hes an offensive minded coach, with no BCS pedigree as an assistant.

The best hire at this point for Swarbrick to make is to hire a young assistant like Muschamp,Smart,Reaves,or one of our young assistants and spin the media & alumni on him being the right guy for the job despite his age, and that Notre Dame needs to build with a young coach rather than following the past high priced coaching scenarios.

That's fair to say that you think the University should've given Weis one more year. I respectfully disagree with you, but that's fair to say.

What I can't imagine defending though is wanting another coordinator with no head coaching experience over a guy like Brian Kelly who has won at his past 3 stops as a head coach, including a BCS-conference program like Cincinnati. Who cares if he's never been a BCS assistant when he IS a BCS head coach? He's not totally offensive minded, he's been a DC in the past and still has a hand in his defense (much more than Charlie did at Notre Dame, anyway).

And look, I'm not saying that makes Kelly a can't-miss. There's no such thing really imo. But its a lot less of a crapshoot than hiring another coordinator with no head coaching experience.

 

[I Dont Miss Charlie]

Well, here's the rub first off. You can hire anybody and it not work out. Look at Louisville right now. A few years ago Steve Kragthorpe was a hot commodity, taking Tulsa to a 29-12 record over 4 seasons, and it has obviously not worked out. So it could not work anywhere.

Sure.

That said, one difference from Kelly to Weis is he has actual head coaching experience at the college level. His work at GVSU does count for something despite it being Div-II, but don't forget his work at Central Michigan and of course Cincinnati. His teams improved every year he was at CMU in his 3-year term, and now he has the Bearcats on the verge of a perfect season and a second consecutive Big East Championship. Even if they lose to Pitt and lose again in their bowl game, they will still have won 33 games in the past 3 years.

Sure. His teams improved at both schools, but what does it say for his coaching abilities when he sticks around for 3 years but doesn't stay to field a team solely of his players. Thats the difference between Kelly and a coach like Schiano or Levitt in the Big East, their entire team is full of their recruits and it shows their abilities a coach to get the most out of their own players when they have a 10 win season.

I think Kelly leaves jobs because he doesn't want his stock to drop by having to rebuild his team after graduations, if he leaves Cincy and gets the Notre Dame job, his plan will have worked and we would then be forced to find out what he can do here. Years of mediocrity will not be tolerated here, specifically due to his success at Cincy with other coaches players and because you can't use an excuse to claim that the cupboard is not full for Kelly here at Notre Dame.

Besides all that, also unlike Weis, Kelly is actually schooled on both sides of the ball. His last non-head coach coaching job was defensive coordinator at GVSU.

His last non-heading coaching job was defensive coordinator of a Div 3 schools, GVSU, in the 1980's. Do you honestly believe that in your mind that gives him any sort of credibility on defense?

But he has also proven to be a legitimate QB guru during his time with the Bearcats.

Hes now a QB guru.
How does shuffling QB's into a spread system make him a QB guru?

So I think there are a lot of reasons Kelly is more appealing right now than another year of Weis. But all that said, when you're a premier program looking for a new head coach, you can hire a hot candidate at a smaller program and it not work out as with Kragthorpe, so its no guarantee. But to be fair, it also does work out a good portion of the time. Just look at Urban Meyer.

Urban Meyer was more proven as an assistant than Kragthorpe, Meyer was an assistant here at Notre Dame for years before taking over with his first HC opportunity in college.

Kragthorpe's experience on the BCS level was being fired by RC Slocum for the failure of Texas A&M's offense with his promotion to Offensive Coordinator.

You can't compare every single mid major coach to Urban Meyer, because there are few who even have the successful track record on a BCS level to compare to Meyer.

 

[JefMaj]

Im going to say this with a straight face, once again.

We should have kept Charlie Weis for one more season, a line drive hire is not worth $40 Million(cost of Charlie & his staff's buyouts, along with new coach & staff's contracts).

There is going to be minimal support for Brian Kelly if hired, hes a good coach but hes just the hot candidate right now. Hes an offensive minded coach, with no BCS pedigree as an assistant.

The best hire at this point for Swarbrick to make is to hire a young assistant like Muschamp,Smart,Reaves,or one of our young assistants and spin the media & alumni on him being the right guy for the job despite his age, and that Notre Dame needs to build with a young coach rather than following the past high priced coaching scenarios.

Minimal support????? I am an ND guy. I support whoever they say is our coach. They say one more year for CW and I'm there... come on CW let's do it. I don't understand the minimal support talk.

That being said... I have wrestled for days on how I would accept Harbaugh. Therapy? I'm sorry, even if he could pull a rabbit out of his ass... to me... it's gonna smell like...

 

[Rudy89]

Patterson is out so its Kelly or bust now not looking good

 

[IrishInFl]

Is it possible that Kelly left GVSU and CMU to get a higher paying job? Is it possible that Kelly wanted a job that was a notch above his previous one? If the answers to my questions are yes, than why would Kelly not at least have some interest in the ND head coaching position?

 

[I Dont Miss Charlie]

That's fair to say that you think the University should've given Weis one more year. I respectfully disagree with you, but that's fair to say.

What I can't imagine defending though is wanting another coordinator with no head coaching experience over a guy like Brian Kelly who has won at his past 3 stops as a head coach, including a BCS-conference program like Cincinnati. Who cares if he's never been a BCS assistant when he IS a BCS head coach? He's not totally offensive minded, he's been a DC in the past and still has a hand in his defense (much more than Charlie did at Notre Dame, anyway).

Its not even solely about a coordinator, Charlie had no experience in the college ranks as an assistant. The guys I've mentioned whether someone from another school, or even some of the young coaches on our staff have the experience on the college level at a BCS program. Where do you think the successful coaches currently in college football start out as? Even Tressel was an assistant at Ohio State under Bruce, before getting a HC opportunity at D2 and then getting the Ohio State job.

I do care that Kelly hasn't been a BCS assistant, because simply there are no proven coaches in college football who didn't cut their teeth as an assistant at a BCS school where they learned under an experienced HC on how to run a program, how to recruit, how to deal with the pressures that come along with the job, etc. You're telling me he is not totally offensive minded and has a hand in the defense, but whatever hand hes putting in has Cincinatti as nothing more than an average defense thats faced only 1 team in conference ranked above 50 in terms of total offense. But even with that has dropped in defensive rankings since starting conference play,while facing weak offensive teams.

And look, I'm not saying that makes Kelly a can't-miss. There's no such thing really imo. But its a lot less of a crapshoot than hiring another coordinator with no head coaching experience.

Charlie was a NFL coordinator with no experience in college at a BCS level, we were expecting him to transition into becoming a top HC by bringing a NFL system and identity to this program.

 

[I Dont Miss Charlie]

Is it possible that Kelly left GVSU and CMU to get a higher paying job? Is it possible that Kelly wanted a job that was a notch above his previous one? If the answers to my questions are yes, than why would Kelly not at least have some interest in the ND head coaching position?

Im not saying that Kelly wouldn't have interest in the Notre Dame job, the question is whether or not what hes done at CMU or Cincy is a fluke. Once they reach the highest success he jumps ship to another job instead of at least sticking around to rebuild or reload after the success.

If Cincy goes undefeated this season, I would want to see what they do the following season where he graduates about 1/2 of the team. I would want to see how his recruits develop at Cincy and if he can get them back to the level he did this season.

 

[IrishInFl]

What difference does it make if Kelly was an assistant at a BCS school rather than a HC? Would you not want a guy with HC experience than one with little to none?

 

[Aerosmith777]

Sure.



Sure. His teams improved at both schools, but what does it say for his coaching abilities when he sticks around for 3 years but doesn't stay to field a team solely of his players. Thats the difference between Kelly and a coach like Schiano or Levitt in the Big East, their entire team is full of their recruits and it shows their abilities a coach to get the most out of their own players when they have a 10 win season.

I think Kelly leaves jobs because he doesn't want his stock to drop by having to rebuild his team after graduations, if he leaves Cincy and gets the Notre Dame job, his plan will have worked and we would then be forced to find out what he can do here. Years of mediocrity will not be tolerated here, specifically due to his success at Cincy with other coaches players and because you can't use an excuse to claim that the cupboard is not full for Kelly here at Notre Dame.

That's not totally fair, he stayed at GVSU for 13 years. And he's been at Cincinatti for 4 years now, meaning the Juniors at least are all his players, and the seniors have only known him as their coach even though he's not the guy who recruited a lot of them. And to be fair, (and I know you hate this comparison, but its the truth) the exact same thing was said of Urban Meyer before he left for Florida....

His last non-heading coaching job was defensive coordinator of a Div 3 schools, GVSU, in the 1980's. Do you honestly believe that in your mind that gives him any sort of credibility on defense?

Now wait just a minute. The only reason that was his last non-head coaching job is because he became the head coach and has been so good at it he's never HAD to accept a job as a coordinator anywhere since! So now we're going to actually hold his success at what he does against him???

How does shuffling QB's into a spread system make him a QB guru?

If producing quarterbacks who win and perform at a high level when they play does not make you a legitimate QB guru, what does exactly? If being able to reach down on your bench when Tony Pike goes down and produce Zach Collaros like a rabbit out of a hat means nothing, then I'm not sure what we should use as a criteria to find the next coach.

Urban Meyer was more proven as an assistant than Kragthorpe, Meyer was an assistant here at Notre Dame for years before taking over with his first HC opportunity in college.

Kragthorpe's experience on the BCS level was being fired by RC Slocum for the failure of Texas A&M's offense with his promotion to Offensive Coordinator.

You can't compare every single mid major coach to Urban Meyer, because there are few who even have the successful track record on a BCS level to compare to Meyer.

My whole point in bringing up Kragthorpe to point out that yes, I'm admitting, hiring a hot head coach at a mid major doesn't alway work out. Not sure what your point here is.

The Meyer reference though it to show that sometimes it does. Now, if your point is that they shouldn't go after Kelly because we are now going to compare Kelly's record as an assistant (which he hasn't been since 1990) to Meyer's to me doesn't make a whole lot of sense for this reason, which I touched on earlier. Kelly hasn't been an assistant in a long time because he took a different path than Meyer. He got an opportunity to be a head coach at GVSU at a much younger age than Meyer got his first shot at head coaching, at Bowling Green. And Kelly stayed there for over a decade and was so good at it, he ended up getting a Div-I job at Central Michigan. Then he succeeded there so much in 3 years, he moved up again to a BCS Conference program. Now he's been there for 4 years as head coach. His record as an assistant is now meaningless to me, just as Urban Meyer's was to Florida. Florida did not hire Meyer because he was the receivers coach at Notre Dame from 1996-2000, they hired him for the job he did as a head coach at Utah and Bowling Green before that. Which is the same reason ND will hire Kelly, if they do.

 

[IrishInFl]

Im not saying that Kelly wouldn't have interest in the Notre Dame job, the question is whether or not what hes done at CMU or Cincy is a fluke. Once they reach the highest success he jumps ship to another job instead of at least sticking around to rebuild or reload after the success.

If Cincy goes undefeated this season, I would want to see what they do the following season where he graduates about 1/2 of the team. I would want to see how his recruits develop at Cincy and if he can get them back to the level he did this season.

You got me there. If only we could have seen what Kelly could have done with Dan LeFevour at CMU. How much better could he have been. He's already good now, so it would have been fun to see what would have happed.

 

[I Dont Miss Charlie]

Minimal support????? I am an ND guy. I support whoever they say is our coach. They say one more year for CW and I'm there... come on CW let's do it. I don't understand the minimal support talk.

Im not talking specifically about you, I'm talking about our collective fanbase and the expectations that once again were not met with this hire. Fire Charlie! Hire the coach at Cincinatti If you can explain to me how the hiring of Brian Kelly is worth paying the $20+ Million to rid the program of Charlie & members of his staff, then I could help spread the word of Brian Kelly to some disappointed former Notre Dame alumns.

 

[I Dont Miss Charlie]

What difference does it make if Kelly was an assistant at a BCS school rather than a HC? Would you not want a guy with HC experience than one with little to none?

I would want a guy with experience as a BCS assistant over a HC of a BCS program with no experience as a BCS assistant.

Being an assistant on the BCS level is crucial to the development of a coach when they do in fact become a Head Coach, you always hear about how important the HC they learned under was to their own development and the teachings they now use.

I've yet to see a coach who hasn't cut their teeth at the BCS level in college find success at a BCS program.

 

[#41]

Is it possible that Kelly left GVSU and CMU to get a higher paying job? Is it possible that Kelly wanted a job that was a notch above his previous one? If the answers to my questions are yes, than why would Kelly not at least have some interest in the ND head coaching position?

Coming at this from a Cincinnati-fan angle, I think what some people are overlooking about the Cincinnati job is that it's a tabula rasa situation.

There are no traditions.
There are no expectations.
There are no ghosts of great players / coaches apst.
There are no boosters or alums with memroies of greatness.
There are no trophy cases filled with awards and championships.

Virtually everything that happens with the program is a first. First BCS bowl was last year. First BCS bowl victory could be this year. The next national championship, should one happen, will be the first.

As exciting as being the coach of Notre Dame is, with it's pagentry and history, there's an excitement Brian Kelly talks about (I believe genuinely, based on conversations with people who know him) for being the guy who does it first. At Cincinnati, he has a chance to be the guy who everyone talks about 20 or 30 years from now -- the guy who fans remember fondly and grumble about when their current coach fails to live up to their expectatiosn.

Cincinnati's a town that honors it's own, fiercely. It's a town that blindly refused to believe Pete Rose ever did anything wrong -- because Pete was their guy. It's a town that still can't understand why Ken Anderson isn't in the Pro Football Hall of Fame -- because Ken Andreson was their guy. If Brian Kelly stays, and continues to win, he'll be an icon not just for the university but for the entire city. He'll be the guy they name the expanded stadium after when he retires -- that sort of thing.

So, while there's a lot that Cincinnati can't compete with -- there are some things it does have to offer that are fairly unique for a BCS program.

I think Kelly ends up as your head coach, and I think he'll be great for you, but I wouldn't be totally shocked if he stayed.

 

[I Dont Miss Charlie]

You got me there. If only we could have seen what Kelly could have done with Dan LeFevour at CMU. How much better could he have been. He's already good now, so it would have been fun to see what would have happed.

Who knows what could've happened, we'll never know because he doesn't stick around long enough.

He spent 10 years with solid but not great records at GVSU before finally getting them to a top level and then leaving before showing whether or not he can sustain that level as a coach. Even Ty Willingham can win 10 games as a coach, but was he able to sustain the success and build from it? No.

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

I think Kelly ends up as your head coach, and I think he'll be great for you, but I wouldn't be totally shocked if he stayed.

If ND wants him, he's coming. Thats all there is to it. The REAL question is, does ND want him. Doesn't sound like he's even been contacted yet, so its starting to look like ND doesn't think much of him.

 

[IrishInFl]

Im not talking specifically about you, I'm talking about our collective fanbase and the expectations that once again were not met with this hire. Fire Charlie! Hire the coach at Cincinatti If you can explain to me how the hiring of Brian Kelly is worth paying the $20+ Million to rid the program of Charlie & members of his staff, then I could help spread the word of Brian Kelly to some disappointed former Notre Dame alumns.

I'm not convinced that the next staff will get rid of everyone. I'm sure Tenuta's gone, but there will most likely be some evaluation to see who stays and who goes (I have a feeling that Polian stays).

As to the disappointed alum, how many do you think are upset? Is it a majority? Minority? What about current students? Are they upset? I watched some WNDU report where they walked campus and I believe everyone wanted him gone, but this may be just the media getting what they want.

 

[#41]

He spent 10 years with solid but not great records at GVSU before finally getting them to a top level and then leaving before showing whether or not he can sustain that level as a coach. Even Ty Willingham can win 10 games as a coach, but was he able to sustain the success and build from it? No.

His team spent the entire year with a target on their backs as the defending Big East champions. They dismantled virtually every defense they came up against and played well enough to win on defense themselves, despite graduating 10 starters.

They survived a stretch of games without Tony Pike, who was getting Heisman talk from Bristol and beyond, and actually played just as well on offense with the backup running the show.

Kelly's track record speaks for itself, and if Notre Dame doesn't want him, I'll be glad to take him back at UC. The team they're bringing back next year has a chance to be even better than this year's version with Zach Collaros taking over for Tony Pike at QB and Armon Binns (6'4, incredible hands, and fast) taking over fror Mardy Gilyard at WR.

 

[Aerosmith777]

I'm not convinced that the next staff will get rid of everyone. I'm sure Tenuta's gone, but there will most likely be some evaluation to see who stays and who goes (I have a feeling that Polian stays).

As to the disappointed alum, how many do you think are upset? Is it a majority? Minority? What about current students? Are they upset? I watched some WNDU report where they walked campus and I believe everyone wanted him gone, but this may be just the media getting what they want.

Tenuta was gone even if Weis stayed. His contract was up, and there's no way they'd of re-signed him. I wouldn't be surprised if Ianello and Powlus found a home on the new staff, whoever's it is. And they can keep Bryant Young around as a GA if he doesn't get a DL coaching job somewhere. Beyond that though, not sure who else would/could stay.

 

[Rudy89]

there's another rumour that kelly will be given an extension so scratch him off the list as well. FUCK!!!