QB situation

[Sherm Sticky]

Phil needs to get more first team reps in practice and on Saturday.

Agree. I wanted Phil to have a few series planned yesterday. Mostly read option stuff and some east passes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ND88]

I’m not sure why but our QB’s never seem to flourish under the current regime. I realize I’m preaching to the choir but what can really be expected? PJ will come in and have a lights out game/games and then regress like the rest. How many times has it happened already? The way the QB’s run the RPO is nauseating. Maybe the playbook is too complicated? Maybe the just make a play thought process is being over complicated because of an overly complex system. How could we strike out so many times with the way we’ve been able to recruit QB’s. None have ever truly developed and the only consistent is BK.

Kelly doesn't have a calming effect on QBs. It's more like what can I do to keep him out of my face. They always play nervous. When was the last time you saw a QB at Notre Dame come out and play with aggression and confidence? And I don't mean against Bowling Green. I think it's perfectly fine to hold your players accountable, but BK gets constipated in the face.

 

[Luckylucci]

Jordan Johnson just liked a tweet saying bench Book and let Phil play. Paraphrasing, but that happened.

We already lost Amonra St. Brown due to BK's crappy QB play. Watch us lose another 5 star WR who doesn't want to come play in BK's dumpster fire of a passing game.

Well, with BK’s offense the passing game putting up numbers was never really an issue. This recent Wimbush/Book fiasco is Longs offense. In fact, BK’s downfall was probably getting too pass happy with Golson and Kizer. Putting too much on them with calls and checks.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Kelly doesn't have a calming effect on QBs. It's more like what can I do to keep him out of my face. They always play nervous. When was the last time you saw a QB at Notre Dame come out and play with aggression and confidence? And I don't mean against Bowling Green. I think it's perfectly fine to hold your players accountable, but BK gets constipated in the face.

Kizer 2015 that’s when. Kelly fucked himself in 2016 with QB competition and the way he handled it. Not to mention BVG.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ND88]

Kizer 2015 that’s when. Kelly fucked himself in 2016 with QB competition and the way he handled it. Not to mention BVG.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I was thinking maybe Kizer. He showed flashes. Kelly honestly didn't know what to do with him. He struggles with QBs who play too loose. Rather than reign in and refine raw skill, he tries to hammer it down into something simplistic and guaranteed. Something like a TRees and a Book. It's like he only knows how to coach obedience and it seriously gets in the minds of his QBs, with higher and lower abilities.

 

[Luckylucci]

I honestly don’t think we can draw too many comparisons between the QB’s in the different offenses. Under BK it seemed that eventually it became information overload as he put more and more responsibility on their plate and that eventually led to TO’s or mistakes. In Longs offense we have a QB that can’t physically make the short/intermediate throws accurately (Wimbush, sewing that in a different offense as well) and another QB (Book) that is seemingly scared shitless of making a mistake or just not making the throws. Also, I’m pretty confident BK is not doing the same QB coaching he was doing with his offense. He’s been very hands off with Long and Rees.

 

[stpeteirish]

I honestly don’t think we can draw too many comparisons between the QB’s in the different offenses. Under BK it seemed that eventually it became information overload as he put more and more responsibility on their plate and that eventually led to TO’s or mistakes. In Longs offense we have a QB that can’t physically make the short/intermediate throws accurately (Wimbush, sewing that in a different offense as well) and another QB (Book) that is seemingly scared shitless of making a mistake or just not making the throws. Also, I’m pretty confident BK is not doing the same QB coaching he was doing with his offense. He’s been very hands off with Long and Rees.

agreed. Kelly's not coaching the QB's anymore. If he's screaming at them as they run off the field these days I'm not seeing it on TV. Rees hasn't been able to teach Book to play the way he did. Throwing into tight windows and stepping up in the pocket. Why can't Book do this?

As far as next week goes I'm hoping its Book with a short leash. See if the team rally's behind him or continues to suck.

 

[OhioIrish31]

Book hasn't been good since he went down in that game last year and BW came to the rescue for a game. He is the definition on "happy feet". It's not his fault that nobody would make a freaking tackle but he sure had a lot to do with us not moving the ball. He is now afraid of his own shadow. QB needs to have elephant balls! I gotta believe that many of the players are thinking the same thing...give Phil the ball.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Kelly needs to move on from Book. Kirk stated it last night and Michigan defense new exactly what needed to be done.


Michigan DB Josh Metellus on #NotreDame QB Ian Book: "We knew that once we hit him a couple times, he was going to get jumpy in the pocket and not want to throw the ball down the field." ($)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Luckylucci]

And that allowed McGrone to play uber aggressive downhill because they were not afraid of getting beat behind them. Book was the “get right” QB for UM’s defense.

 

[ulukinatme]

Book out Phil in.
Jafar our anyone else in
Finke our Keys and anyone else in
Tremble out Brock in
White out Bo in
Hinish MTA out and Admiola, Cross, Jamion anyone else in
Elliott out Hamilton in
Gilman out anyone in until he understands he has been playin schitty lately
Dante can redshirt for next year not that he is that good
Looking forward to Daelin Hayes starting next year
Change offensive scheme, play Jones at FB
We need to up our physical constants mditioning again like when longo was gone his first year and Coney looked like a beast.
Rees out someone with more experience and real credentials in
Long calling plays out Kelly in!

You could have just said "Start the whole 2nd string"
I think at least half these are a bit extreme though. Gilman has his flaws, but he's one of our better defenders unfortunately. I am ready to move on from Long though, I would take BK calling the plays at this point. That performance last night was inexcusable.

 

[Wingman Ray]

And that allowed McGrone to play uber aggressive downhill because they were not afraid of getting beat behind them. Book was the “get right” QB for UM’s defense.

So all are the QBs on NDs roster just THAT bad or is BK playing stubborn and wanting to hold on to his favorites again?

 

[Luckylucci]

So all are the QBs on NDs roster just THAT bad or is BK playing stubborn and wanting to hold on to his favorites again?

It’s extremely difficult to justify a QB switch of this magnitude to your team before an event like this happens. It’s a lot easier to say it than do it. The sell is a lot easier now.

 

[ulukinatme]

The problems with this offense are deeper than at QB. I would look at Long first, and then I would find better ways to get our play makers the football. Sadly, our play makers are kind of few and far between. I think most years Claypool would be an excellent #2, but he's the best we have and I think receiver-wise it's falls off quite a bit from there. Our guys fail to get open often, and when they do get open Book is either already scrambling or he's dumped the ball off to a closer target.

 

[WilliamWallace]

I don’t think there’s any reason with our OL, TE’s, and a blocking back, that a QB as accurate as Book can’t make a blitzing team pay. I think the happy feet remark is spot on. His lack of patience in the pocket, lack of progressions, is killing any and all drives against good defensive teams. Maybe Book shouldn’t be given the option to run the RPO. Who’s calling protections anyways? My point, is that good coaches play to their players abilities. There’s no way that year in and year out we keep recruiting “bad QB’s”. Example, the Cleveland Browns. Brady Quinn is one of my favorite ND QB’s. He got stuck in a bad situation. If the shoe doesn’t fit, it just doesn’t fit.

 

[ickythump1225]

I'm ready for PJ. Time to find out what we have in him.

 

[StPaul_Irish]

I was all about Book, but I agree it is time to build for the future. PJ scares me though, I think he is soft mentally. I saw somewhere that BK had to have a heart to heart to see if he reallly wanted to be there. I dont have a source, but he appears meh. Also, those throws yesterday were ugly

 

[Sea Turtle]

I was all about Book, but I agree it is time to build for the future. PJ scares me though, I think he is soft mentally. I saw somewhere that BK had to have a heart to heart to see if he reallly wanted to be there. I dont have a source, but he appears meh. Also, those throws yesterday were ugly

Maybe we should just start taking in QB transfers. It's obvious no QB recruited by Kelly can succeed.

 

[StPaul_Irish]

Maybe we should just start taking in QB transfers. It's obvious no QB recruited by Kelly can succeed.

I'm not saying that, I just don't have confidence in PJ right now. I was really confident about Book/Wimbush and look how that's turned out. However transfers have done ok at Oklahoma right?

 

[T-Boone]

I was all about Book, but I agree it is time to build for the future. PJ scares me though, I think he is soft mentally. I saw somewhere that BK had to have a heart to heart to see if he reallly wanted to be there. I dont have a source, but he appears meh. Also, those throws yesterday were ugly

I am prepared to put that down to the whole team being afflicted with PTSD at the point he entered the game. His first possession he looked like he was out amongst some zombie apocalypse trying to keep himself alive. But 3 minutes later he looked more composed and put on a drive and throw for a TD. Maybe he just needs a week of preparation where he is being told he is the man.

 

[ickythump1225]

From this SI article:
https://www.si.com/college/notredame/football/notre-dame-football-key-takeaways-michigan/

2. Ian Book Isn’t The Answer — I already broken it down earlier, but at some point you have to accept that what we’ve seen from quarterback Ian Book the last 11 games is basically who he is. Book has played against four Top 50 defenses (last night was the fourth), and in those four games Book has averaged just 168.3 passing yards per game, completed just 54.2-percent of his passes, averaged 5.1 yards per attempt, 9.5 yards per completion and has a passer rating of just 100.33.

Those are abysmal numbers.

If you take out the rain game his numbers are still really bad, with Book averaging just 200 yards per game, 5.7 yards per attempt, 9.5 yards per attempt and just a 107.55 passer rating. You can’t be a legitimate contender with quarterback play like that. Against Michigan, Book’s poor performance didn’t give Notre Dame a chance to compete offensively.

Not an elite or even top tier QB.

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

I'm all in on PJ. Let's see what we've got. If he sucks too then it's time for a new OC in 2020.

 

[T-Boone]

Am i the only one thought PJ looked slower than expected? He got clear once and got ran down from behind. I thought he had Wimbush wheels.

 

[T-Boone]

In my opinion the guy we miss most from last season is Dexter. He probably helped make Book better than he is.

 

[irishff1014]

From this SI article:
https://www.si.com/college/notredame/football/notre-dame-football-key-takeaways-michigan/



Not an elite or even top tier QB.

Nice find.

 

[irishtrooper]

Am i the only one thought PJ looked slower than expected? He got clear once and got ran down from behind. I thought he had Wimbush wheels.

I think it may have been at least partly due to not being sure. Lack of reps at full speed and slower decision making. I believe that he will improve in that regard , maybe not BW but faster. I really think it’s time for a change though. See whether PJ is the future. Book clearly is not good enough for this team and he’s proven it over and over again. I’m one of the more optimistic fans here, but at some point you’ve gotta stop putting good money after bad and move on

 

[Circa]

I was done with Book after UVa. We know his ceiling, we know his lack of pocket presence, and he's a senior.

We know Phil has a higher ceiling and he has a lot of eligibility. He needs snaps. He's the future. The playoffs are 100% gone, so build for the next run.

We know nothing of this sort.



<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/3oxRmGXbquXKz6DNPq" width="480" height="270" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/steveharveytv-crazy-steve-harvey-you-3oxRmGXbquXKz6DNPq">via GIPHY</a></p>

:banghead2

 

[Circa]

I'm all in on PJ. Let's see what we've got. If he sucks too then it's time for a new OC in 2020.

So in your opinion, the Coordinators are responsible for what these QB's can do in the spotlight?
Michigan Just lost to Penn State last week and It's not that far off from happened last night. You can't conclude without some disastrous on-field give a F U C K.

Our Boys weren't wanting this game for odd reasons.

 

[NDMontana]

My biggest problem with Book is I don’t think his physical limitations are the issue. He can make all the throws we’re asking him to make. He just either doesn’t see them, understand the route concepts, go through his progressions, gets spooked by movement, etc.

There are just too many in-game examples of him not being able to execute the offense when there are plays to be made. And his unwillingness to throw over the middle is essentially rendering some of the playbook useless. Hard for Long to call an offense with a QB that in-game is refusing to do so.

My biggest problem is the damn coaching. You know how a coach finds out if he has a player: the player has a bad game (Clemson). The coach identifies the issue. The coach begins to address it, a/k/a coaches. The player adapts or does not. You give it a game or two. The habit continues, you tell the guy the next time you see it (in this case bailing or throwing off his back foot), he is out for the series. He does it again the next series, he is out for the remainder of the half. He does it the next game, he is done playing. If he cannot adapt and change in those circumstances than he is mentally weak and incapable.

 

[ickythump1225]

We know nothing of this sort.



<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/3oxRmGXbquXKz6DNPq" width="480" height="270" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/steveharveytv-crazy-steve-harvey-you-3oxRmGXbquXKz6DNPq">via GIPHY</a></p>

:banghead2

We can actually make a pretty reasonable deduction that Phil has a higher ceiling than Book based off of a number of factors: better measurables, higher recruiting rating, better scouting reports, and the fact that Book is very clearly severely limited.