Post Game Observations

[Guest]

It was clear on TV that the ball hit the ground.

We might be talking about a different catch then. The one I am talking about they missed was clearly a catch.

 

[Irish Insanity]

We might be talking about a different catch then. The one I am talking about they missed was clearly a catch.

If your talking about the one where DD was raped when he turned back to catch the ball quite a ways down field but still looked like he caught it as he went to the ground, he didn't. They showed the replay after the confusion of the announcers wondering why we didn't decline the penalty, and it was clear the tip hit the ground and it moved.

 

[palinurus]

Won't dwell on things addressed more in depth by others, but was impressed with Smith, Shembo, Nix, Tuitt (second half particularly), kicking game (despite first half miss), among others. Very sorry about the injuries to Smith and Jarrett. The latter had really begun playing pretty well.

I'm pleased with a win over a team with a good offense and decent defense that was less flat than I expected after scoring 62 last week. I thought the coaches prepped well and adjusted well generally speaking. No way to look at beating a ranked team as more bad than good.

A few other observations:

I don't like don't like don't like the three man rush. Like Jayhawk said, I understand that we're not professionals, so maybe I'm totally wrong. But I'm a longtime football fan, and I know when a team is getting a rush and when they aren't, and the game turned in Quarter 3 when the defense went off the rails (in a good way for us) with pressure. That was not in a three man rush. As much as I know Diaco knows a zillion times more than me, I also know that coaches misjudge and miscalculate, which is why many coaches get outcoached every week. I really think pressure matters and I hope I never see another 3 man rush this year.

Along these lines, I don't like don't like don't like the empty set backfield. It seems to make defending us easier since there is no safety valve to have to track; defenses can simply defend with their 4 WR package. But maybe I just don't understand. Perhaps, but an immobile QB seems to be helped by a safety valve, since he can't get away long enough to find a WR deep downfield, and if he does, he'll usually throw late, which we saw a lot last night.

Tommy: Kmoose and others said it right; no point in beating a dead horse, but fair is fair. He made some really nice passes last night among his missteps. Really nice. And it shows, I think, why he has to start over Hendrix. The frustration is that inconsistent is different than mediocre. It's not like he's a 54% QB with 2 TDs, an INT every two games, 280 yds/game, with smart ball protection. He seems to have both great serieses and blockhead throws in the fourth quarter that let teams back in to the game. This makes it hard for the coaches who just don't have a Joe Flacco type to replace him with; he's like Philip Rivers on some plays and Brandon Weedon on others.

Generally, kudos to Harry re OLine development; seemed to be a lot of procedure penalties though.

Overall, though, that game moved us in the right direction -- definitely something to build on of the D side. The O side, to me, needs to reorient the game plan to require less riverboat gambler from Tommy and thus gain consistency.

*edit: maybe Rivers is a bad example, but I mean somebody who's pretty good, but not fantastic.

 

[DillonHall]

They were keyed on the run, but play action would at least freeze the MLBs or cause them to come up and fill, freeing the TE in the seam. I remember the play you are referring to last year and I think it was a play action pass, but am not 100% sure.

I was just curious, so I looked it up- the pass to Eifert was out of an empty backfield.

Again, it may be time to look harder at player execution rather than blaming the coaching.

 

[WakeUpEchoes]

I'm looking for the Tommy sucks and prevented us from scoring 55 points thread. Any help?

 

[DomerInHappyValley]

For anyone who cares. In the updated rankings we are just outside in the others receiving votes category.

 

[PANDFAN]

We might be talking about a different catch then. The one I am talking about they missed was clearly a catch.

the pass interference one? it hit the ground which helped him catch it

 

[NCDomer]

I'm looking for the Tommy sucks and prevented us from scoring 55 points thread. Any help?

Tommy's QB Rating is 128.8 so far this year. Good for 77th in the nation. Considering Logan Thomas of VT is 93rd with a 117, we should be happy. Rees was never considered an NFL-caliber player like Thomas, yet he's playing better this year. With that said, Rees should be playing better than he is. Rees played better his first two seasons. We need 135+ play out of him to beat top competition. That's not asking a lot, as it'd put him simply in the upper half of starting QBs.

Nice win yesterday. Still need to improve.

 

[ickythump1225]

Tommy is what he is at this point and there's no point crying about it anymore or fretting. We've got 7 more games with him as the QB and then he will graduate and we'll move forward.

Overall this was an impressive win. We were wicked spoiled by last year...we beat a ranked team on the road/neutral site that we were 6.5 point underdogs against with a prolific offense. A lot of ND fans were predicting a blowout as were many of the "experts." We took it to them and won. We should be happy.

The path to 9 wins heading into Palo Alto is open. At the beginning of the year I'm sure almost all of us would have taken that all things considered.

 

[stlnd01]

I don't like don't like don't like the three man rush. Like Jayhawk said, I understand that we're not professionals, so maybe I'm totally wrong. But I'm a longtime football fan, and I know when a team is getting a rush and when they aren't, and the game turned in Quarter 3 when the defense went off the rails (in a good way for us) with pressure. That was not in a three man rush. As much as I know Diaco knows a zillion times more than me, I also know that coaches misjudge and miscalculate, which is why many coaches get outcoached every week. I really think pressure matters and I hope I never see another 3 man rush this year.

Along these lines, I don't like don't like don't like the empty set backfield. It seems to make defending us easier since there is no safety valve to have to track; defenses can simply defend with their 4 WR package. But maybe I just don't understand. Perhaps, but an immobile QB seems to be helped by a safety valve, since he can't get away long enough to find a WR deep downfield, and if he does, he'll usually throw late, which we saw a lot last night.

God how I hate the three-man rush. And the third-and-short empty-set. They take away the things we're best at (rushing the passer and offensive versatility, respectively) and put too much pressure on the things we're worst at (pass coverage and our QB's arm). If I never saw either again this year I'd be a happy man.

 

[Irish Insanity]

For all the people calling for Redfield like me:


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>BK - Max Redfield is close, but he has to get the QB aspect of being a safety down a little but better.</p>— Irish Sports Daily (@ISDUpdate) <a href="https://twitter.com/ISDUpdate/statuses/386920236206653440">October 6, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[PJWhitfield]

When I looked at quarterback Taylor Kelly, I thought I was looking at Jerry Seinfeld. QB Seinfeld

Notre Dame dodged a plastic bullet.

 

[anarin]

For all the people calling for Redfield like me:


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>BK - Max Redfield is close, but he has to get the QB aspect of being a safety down a little but better.</p>— Irish Sports Daily (@ISDUpdate) <a href="https://twitter.com/ISDUpdate/statuses/386920236206653440">October 6, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Speaking of safeties, Collinsworth looked really fast last night.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Speaking of safeties, Collinsworth looked really fast last night.

The closing speed on the TD he was blown by on was impressive.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I have not been a fan of Chuck Martin's play calling this year and this game was no exception. Several times in the second half I screamed at the TV when we should have been running the ball and there was no RB in the backfield. That may work when you have an athletic QB that can scramble if everyone is covered, but not with Tommy Rees. We become one dimensional and Tommy is just not good enough to consistently beat D1 defenses when they know a pass is coming. Even if we don't run the ball, put a RB in the backfield and have him stay home for pass protection or give TR a safety valve when everyone is covered.

The most frustrating offensive series of the game for me occurred late in the 4th quarter after ASU had tied the game. The drive started strong and we made it down to the 8 yard line with a 1st and goal. First down, Cam runs for 4 yards up the gut. I have no problem with this play. Second down, we toss it outside for Cam and he loses 4 yards. No reason why to try and run that play outside off tackle where the risk of a loss outweighs the reward of a possible gain. Plus, we are trying to run time off the clock and that negates the option of Cam making it to the sideline and potentially going out of bounds. Third down, everyone (including the announcers) correctly predicts this would be a great time to throw the ball to our 6'7" TE. So what happens? Niklas stays on the line to block and Rees throws an incomplete fade to Daniels. Why was Niklas on the line for max pass protection if we were calling a play where Rees got rid of the ball after 2-3 seconds? Why not send him out and either throw the ball up to him or use him as a decoy (ASU would have probably double teamed him).

There were other examples, but this series stood out to me. Poor play calling could have cost us this game. I'm really glad that some of the boys stepped up and would not let us lose this game!!!

Cam played well and ran hard. I really liked the way GA3 ran the ball in the first half (building off a strong game vs Oklahoma), but he was bad in the second half. He missed holes and danced when we needed him to pound it.

It's frustrating to watch DD play. So much talent and he just doesn't seem to grasp the game mentally. I think Kelly needs to start someone else vs SC (maybe Robinson) and send him a message that mental mistakes will cost him. If he wakes up, he could be an All American...even with somebody like Rees at QB.

Don't understand why people are bashing on Chris Brown. He had one costly drop, but he was open on a bunch of plays and just didn't get the ball or was under/over thrown. If Rees starts looking his way more, he is poised for a 5 catch 100+ yard game very soon.

Shembo has a game like this last year. I don't remember who we were playing, but he was all over the place and I think he had 3 sacks. I remember thinking that was his break out game and then he went back to being mediocre afterwards. I hope this year he continues playing at a high level because he was a beast last night.

Nix and Kona had great games. They may not get stats, but we dominated the interior line.

People were bashing Tuitt early, but it was obvious that Diaco's gameplan was to have our DE's rush outside and make sure that Kelly didn't escape outside. It worked and then when we had the lead and knew they would be passing, Tuitt bull rushed and attacked inside and dominated. We need Sheldon Day back though in a major way and I hope he's 100% after the bye week.

Bennett Jackson played well and his turnover was a huge momentum shifter (a play that I predicted on the live chat). Farley was awful and people should not give him a pass because of his pick. That play actually cost us 35 yards as it was 4th down and we would have had the ball on ASU's 20 if he had just knocked it down. Comes down to discipline and he has shown that he doesn't have it. I agree that it's time to give Max a shot. There is no way he could be worse.

Kyle Brindza was HUGE! I give him a pass on the shanked early FG because he hit the monster 53 yarder (ND record), the eventual game winner late in the 4th, the punt down to the 1 (which may have been the most important play of the game when they could have driven down and tied / taken the lead) and every kickoff went into the end zone. Amazing ST game overall if you count TJ Jones excellent punt return that we unfortunately wasted.

TJ Jones, Dan Fox and Jaylon Smith had incredible games that were the best games of all 3 of their careers in my opinion.

Go Irish...beat SC!!!!

Three words: Play action pass.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Three words: Play action pass.

Three words: Haven't seen it.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

When I looked at quarterback Taylor Kelly, I thought I was looking at Jerry Seinfeld. QB Seinfeld

Notre Dame dodged a plastic bullet.

I kind of know what you mean; when I looked at quarterback Taylor Kelly, I wished he had the other color jersey on.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Three words: Haven't seen it.

Three more words: Pretty fvcking funny!

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Three more words: But so true!

 

[AgentJ]

Maybe it's just me, but ND always seems more worried about getting into the "correct" play than just playing football. Tommy checks more than any college football quarterback and we nearly have a delay of game way too often.

Sometimes you just have to unleash the talent and let it play however it plays. IMO it's being bottled up by trying to do the "right" thing instead of just playing ball

 

[STLcardz-NDirish]

D line looked really fast and powerful
Secondary needs work in zone
Cam can pound it
Corey can straight snag
Niklas needs more targets as he's a huge mismatch
Tommy will be tommy

Pumped about the win and all in all we looked so much quicker than all year. Loved the energy

I see us being 9-2 headed into Stanford

 

[kmoose]

Maybe it's just me, but ND always seems more worried about getting into the "correct" play than just playing football. Tommy checks more than any college football quarterback and we nearly have a delay of game way too often.

Sometimes you just have to unleash the talent and let it play however it plays. IMO it's being bottled up by trying to do the "right" thing instead of just playing ball

Tommy is not always checking into another play. In Kelly's system, the QB is responsible for the blocking assignments. Some of what people think is Rees calling an audible, is just him giving out blocking assigments. That takes time, and changes as the defensive front changes. The coaches do need to get the plays in to him quicker.

 

[Cackalacky]

Tommy is not always checking into another play. In Kelly's system, the QB is responsible for the blocking assignments. Some of what people think is Rees calling an audible, is just him giving out blocking assigments. That takes time, and changes as the defensive front changes. The coaches do need to get the plays in to him quicker.

This. We have Nick Martin at center. He is not making line calls. Golson was not doing this last year. That being said we have to get better getting plays/personnel in quicker and the play clock crap is unacceptable.

 

[Irish#1]

I agree with a lot of the comments, but we have a tendency to over analyze and want to nitpick too much.

When the season is over, I think you'll see this was the defining game of the year for us, just like Pitt last year. I saw a team that had been outplayed for most of the first half, yet kept fighting. They came out in the second half and played to win the game. They took control of the game and answered ASU every time. This was a big time win. Enjoy it, because this isn't last years team and we keep expecting this team to be a carbon copy.

 

[Patulski]

Speaking of safeties, Collinsworth looked really fast last night.

This must be sarcasm.

Besides being deep badly for a TD, there was play where Collinsworth was playing 10 yards off the LOS over the slot on the hash mark. ASU ran a simple sweep left with the RB starting on the right of the QB. The slot man cracked back on Jaylon Smith. Unblocked, this meant that Collinsworth now had contain.

The gain was 10 yards. Collinsworth was already 10 yards deep. So that meant the runner ran about 20 yards, 10 yards horizontally along the line of scrimmage and 10 yards upfield, while Collinsworth only needed to run about 10 horizontally. A fast safety would have run at an angle to tackle the running back and reduce this run by at least 5 yards if not more.

If Collinsworth is our future at one of the Safety spots, we're in real trouble. He is slow.

 

[Fbolt]

W

 

[Bogtrotter07]

W

H

 

[Irish Houstonian]

we always look so much slower on NBC

I think their cameras add 10 pounds. And on Tuitt they add 20. (zing!)

 

[GATTACA!]

ASU was already selling out for the run (I assume- don't remember for sure). I'm not sure what play action would have accomplished...

And people need to stop complaining about that play call. They did a similar thing last year versus Michigan to close out the game; since it worked, people thought it was a brilliant call. IMO, execution is a much bigger problem than playcalling.

I dont have a problem with the play call. If ASU is selling out on the run why not try to catch them off guard. My problem is Tommy just throwing the ball away because the play didnt develop properly. And this isnt just an issue with ND or Tommy ive seen this in lots of situations NCAA and NFL.

Ive always thought in a situation like this where you are trying to run out the clock but want to call a passing play, why isnt the coach in the QBs ear telling him to take knee if no one is open. The loss of yards is nbd, most teams take the delay of game on 4th just to run an extra second or two. If Tommy takes a knee we run 30 more seconds or make them use a TO.

 

[blackirish]

Rewatched the game this morning:
-Tommy played a C- game... if that. He missed a ridiculous amount of wide open throws and also had a bunch of bad reads. And let's not even touch on all of the checks. He threw a horrible pick 6 (bad throw/read by him, but Daniels also got flat out beat by the CB there so that's on him some), the TD to Niklas... he had him wide open up the seam and missed it, and then threw it right at a defender but Troy came from nowhere to make a great play. If that's a Stanford level defender that's an interception.
-The defense... excusing that last "prevent" garbage time drive for a second... played an A level game. Whenever they needed to step up and make a play they did. Got pressure, forced turnovers, etc. Rewatching most of the breakdowns at crucial moments I put that on coaching. A lot of asking the wrong guy to do something he shouldn't be doing. The best example was Ishaq Williams dropping 20 yards in coverage on a 3rd and 20. Seriously Diaco? But there were oodles of instance of linebackers running with WRs or dynamic pass catching RBs... just a recipe for disaster. A couple costly mental errors too... like Collinsworth not realizing he had underneath help and biting up so the WR ran right past him for a long TD, Farley not just knocking the ball down, etc. but stuff happens.
-Jaylon Smith's speed is so awesome.
-Prince Shembo played an incredible game. We've been missing that all year.
-I was really impressed with how the OL played as a whole. Great protection against a lot of creative pressures. No breakdowns like Oklahoma. WITH THAT BEING SAID... wtf is up with all of the false starts and snap infractions? Does it have to do with all of the checking?
-Kyle Brindza had a whale of a game after his first miss. Punted the sh*t out of the ball and drilled all his field goals (some tough ones too)

-Let's not get it twisted, this was a very impressive win. That team is better than Oklahoma and Michigan. Defense made some big plays against a prolific offense. I think the injury to Grace was a catalyst for all the effort and playmaking we saw from that point onward. The scheme for the offense wasn't great, but at the same time we would've scored 45+ if Tommy didn't miss wide open big plays. I think Tommy handicapped us more than play calling in this game. I thought the coaches put us in a good position to succeed. This was a great win against a quality opponent and if we beat USC it sets us up for a good season. Kelly has shown throughout his tenure that when the team hits a low he gets them to fight back hard... and this was just another example of that.

Let's not get it twisted ASU is not better than OKU,because 1. They can't stop the run to save thier friggin life ! and they're also a lousy pass defense and if they played Michigan the "weasles would run up 60 + points on them because Mike Gallon would have a field day on that defense . Look this is a much needed win but let's not make it out to be more than what it is.