Post Game Discussion Thread

[kmoose]

...... and Tate with the speed and big play ability.

No offense Axl, but what big play ability? He's started in, what, 8 games? And he has 2 big plays. That's 2 in 8 games. When he starts to make 1 every game, then we can talk about his big play ability?

 

[Moostache]

Scattershots....

- Our group of large mammals showed up and actually managed to throw a few blocks today! Granted, in the first half I was almost apoplectic when the guards (Olsen and Turkovich) jumped the count right after a TO and right after Weis was shown clearly saying "We are going on THREE" not once but TWICE!!!

- Sam Young had a better day today and he is an enormous man....I think he needs to have a great off-season workout regiment and some serious drilling on footwork - maybe someone can hook him up with Aaron Taylor's phone number for some "advice"??? He has all the tools to be a dominanting tackle and has shown he wants to be a leader on the squad in '08...now is the time to start and between him and Wenger's play today some of my faith in the recruiting ranking of our SO. O-linemen as "best in the country in 2006 freshmen" was restored...also nice to see Chris Stewart as the third TE in short yardage plays today...I can't wait for the big man to catch his first TD out of that formation!!!

- Hughes day today was better than Aldridge's day against MSU. I felt good for him after he is going through a god-awful month of November...glad to see his teammates just go crazy for him.

- Clausen is going to be a very, very good QB as early as next year and by the time he is a senior he will justifiably draw comparisons to Brady. The sheer number of drops on Clausen passes by Parris and Kamara (and Grimes) seem terribly reminiscent of Brady Quinn-Stovall-McKnight circa 2004. Between 2004 and 2005, those guys developed into the offense that so excited us all in 2005 and I look for similar things from the current group next year (especially when you throw in Floyd and Rudolph).

- Defense looked BAD...Duke WRs dropping passes or Duke's QB missing WIDE-OPEN guys made those game stats and the game score a whole lot different than it could have been. There were games this season that I thought the defense got short thrift due to offensive ineptitude, but today they were simply not good. I remember the play that LAWS made the tackle on a run 15 YARDS downfield. No sleight on Trevor (because he has been a beast all year long), he made a hustle play...but Crum was himself (getting swallowed by a blocker), and no one came up from the secondary to make a play either...it was disheartening to say the least.

- Defensive bright spot? Darrin Walls has no short term memory....one play after getting flagged for PI, Duke tried him again on a fade and he could not have played better position and technique than he did. The guy is living up to his hype and shows a lot of reasons why he is already ND's best CB and should be special in his Jr. and Sr. seasons, essentially taking away half the field beyond 12 yards...

- Coach Weis' comments about having Bellicheck in to consult about the defense seemed a bit odd to me and was a tad unsettling....I think Charlie needs to come to grips with delegating that responsibility to Corwin Brown and if he can get Belicheck and Brown to consult that's fine, but not for him and him alone...

- A WIN IS A WIN IS A WIN....after dropping 2 games that I considered "unlosable" in September, I will take them anyway they come right now - but what made this one nice was in finally seeing the young players (especially Clausen and Hughes) get some success and then seeing that 2nd quarter success feed on itself. It was so refreshing to see breaks that have destroyed ND all year long go their way long enough to send them in a positive direction that seemed to carry over from series to series in that game. First 5 drives of the game = UGLY...more of the same and without the 2 Duke TOs and subsequent TDs off of Clausen's arm (and MAN WAS THAT THROW TO GRIMES NICE OR WHAT????) the team just may have imploded again. Their confidence was shot for much of this year, but to see even a hint of swagger back on the ND Offense was great!

- I am glad this home season did not end winless...as it is was bad enough, but a winless home slate would have been a very unwelcome storyline for the press to harp on next September in advance of the SDSU game...

- RANDOM MOOS DROPPING (reserved for a thought or comment that is essentially worthless) IMO next year's captains should be Clausen, Young and Bruton. Its clear that the young guys need to rally around a leader and if Clausen is going to be the man at QB, then the team needs him to step up about 10-fold...

- Bruton has an NFL career as a special teams player even if he never improves at all as a DB before graduating...

- I am still mystified by John Carlson's season...he should have been an essential cog in the offense this year and simply was not. There were extenuating circumstances, but watching Clausen drop passes in to him between defenders the last two weeks made me wonder "what-if?" and awful lot...as in what if Clausen and Carlson had all summer to throw and work on chemistry to develop a feel for each other prior to the 11th week of the season? I think that seeing the passes he did catch over the last two games its especially haunting. Carlson caught some huge passes from Quinn in the last two years, but there seems to have been a lost opportunity this year that could have made things a bit prettier than 2-9...we may have only gone 5-6 or 4-7 to this point, but I am convinced that Clausen's inability to throw too much in the summer and fall camp really hurt the most between he and Carlson...

- that was an awful looking FG attempt...31-yards is something that MUST be a gimmie and cannot be in doubt next year or there needs to be a different kicker.

- so brace yourselves for the final week of Ty-Charlie comparisons in the media....as of right now, they sport identical records as ND head coach and there is NO WAY the hacks in the print and TV media will be able to go 30 seconds this week without pointing that out...I GUARANTEE it will be a graphic on Gameday next week, there will be a discussion of the talking heads (AGAIN) about how unfair it is for Weis to not be fired or publically tarred and feathered...but the good news? After this its all over forever....no more comparing records at certain milestones, no more discussion of Ty's recruiting or players or talk of the recent (inglorious) past...from here on after Stanford, its all about Charlie and the development of the sophomores, freshmen and freshmen-to-be!

 

[piyachi]

Tate and Parris will get their shot to improve this offseason. I think it's going to be make-or-break for those on the bubble as far as starting at wide receiver. If you can't improve your route running or put some glue on those hands than Floyd is going to eat your spot for breakfast (and heck, he might anyway....or even probably).

It's almost a dilemma for Aldridge vs Hughes in my mind. Although Aldridge may have more top-end speed Hughes is SO tough to take down. I don't care if it is the blue devils in the rain - that guy is a freight train. This may be another battle over the offseason to see who can develop more and get more touches next year. I don't think Gray will be taking significant time away from anyone in his frosh year but he may start to push with his combo of speed/power. I'd say that it's on Aldridge to work on getting that speed back up to turn those 12 yard gains into at least 20 yard gains.

Jimmy is getting better constantly. This is objective because despite seeing him against the worst D in 1A, he is moving better, using better vision even when hurried, and putting more on the ball. He is our leader for the future at QB.

Laws continued to be disgustingly good. I forget what the award is for best D-Lineman in the country, but he deserves it, hands down.

Liked to see Weis do some nice stuff for the seniors including Zibby at QB.

I think Bruton and Kuntz are going to really help the D transition next year. Walls has gotten better and better and the guy across from him next year had better put in a good offseason or he is going to feeling the pressure since he is going to get passed at a lot. Ian Williams takes a load off my chest about our continuing transition to 3-4, he surpassed any expectations I had already.



Yea it's Duke but this is what I had hoped for at the end of the season. I hope we can build off of this win for next week. Beat the Harbaughs.

 

[SoCalDomer]

- Coach Weis' comments about having Bellicheck in to consult about the defense seemed a bit odd to me and was a tad unsettling....I think Charlie needs to come to grips with delegating that responsibility to Corwin Brown and if he can get Belicheck and Brown to consult that's fine, but not for him and him alone...

I agree. If CW needs to consult with somebody, or if one of his assistants need to consult with someone, it should be a college coach. Not an NFL coach. And yes, CW needs to let go of the reins a bit.

 

[Newc]

Jimmy Clausen is the absolute real deal. He looked so confident today that I have no doubts in my mind that this kid will be even better than Brady. With more expierence this kid will only get better.

The rest of the youngsters are looking better too. Ian Williams, Kamara, AA, Brian Smith, Kerry Neal, Hughes. This boys are bound for an NC in '09.

And for those of you who believed Weis had "lost" this team, just look at zibby at QB and you can see that he in no way has lost these kids. There may have been a few that strayed from Charlie, but there were plenty more that have embraced what is being done here. This win, even if it is over "lowly" Duke will prove to be the turning point in the ND dynasty. Seeing the seniors after the game shows how much the love ND and how willing they are to play their hardest. I can't wait for the future boys, its gonna be a hell of a run.

 

[stonebreakerwasgod]

If JC can learn the offense inside/out, and become a true field general (ala Peyton Manning), he is gonna be deadly. He is more accurate than BQ, he just needs to get experience and an OL.

 

[Moostache]

On Zibby at QB....that kind of made me wonder how a goal-line package of Zibby / AA / Hughes and the 3 TE set featuring Stewart at TE would have looked....I am thinking back to when Lou would run pure wishbone sets on the goal-line...Zibby actually looked faster than any of the RBs even though it was garbage time and a gimmick...

Sad side note of the game? Travis Thomas' last carry in Notre Dame stadium was a perfect summation of his career - flashed potential that was never quite realized...good luck in your future Travis, but sadly football won't be part of it...

 

[Master Guns]

We need a kicker who can hit consistently at 40 to 45 yards to the point it won't be so gut wrenching watching it.

 

[jonesman]

Couple more thoughts folks. How long has it been since we discussed having too many weapons at RB?? I still think that we can keep Allen, Aldridge and Hughes all happily involved. Plus, injuries are so common with RB's. As for the 3-4 Defense, I say it is NOT good for college ball. Did you notice the running success that Duke had on sweeps by just pinning in the DL. This takes out 5 guys on the run. I believe that some 3-4 could be OK but 4-3 is better base D. Speaking of the D, we are in woeful need of a couple stud ILB's. Crum and Brockington are just so average. I love Crum's effort, but he just gets swallowed on so many plays. I think that moving someone like Mo Richardson to ILB could be a good move. He will be stuck behind Smith and Neal at OLB, so put him inside. He has more size and speed than Crum. At WR, Parris has lost ground since the beginning of the season. I think we have seen his ceiling.
Finally, I was disapointed to hear that CW is going back to NE to learn get some help. Has he NOT learned that this is COLLEGE footall, not the NFL. The playcalling is different, the schemes are different and for sure the practicing is different. The refusal to understand the college game will be CW's demise if he fails at ND>

 

[Master Guns]

I agree. If CW needs to consult with somebody, or if one of his assistants need to consult with someone, it should be a college coach. Not an NFL coach. And yes, CW needs to let go of the reins a bit.

Cw said he was "going home" the the Pats to see what he is doing wrong too.

 

[Axl Rose]

No offense Axl, but what big play ability? He's started in, what, 8 games? And he has 2 big plays. That's 2 in 8 games. When he starts to make 1 every game, then we can talk about his big play ability?

Thats why its called ability, he has the ability to do it with his speed. And its not like he has been given much of a chance either.

 

[piyachi]

Everyone is freaking on the Charlie advice from NE thing....

He is part of that system. Corwin is part of that system. Why not go to their mutual mentor? Who gives a damn if it's a college HC or NFL HC that he seeks for advice about the D? He already stated that he took Brown because he felt comfortable with the system they had in place with the Pats. It really isn't a big deal, especially since he isn't calling it unlike the O.

Really. Not. A. Big. Deal.

 

[SoCalDomer]

As for the 3-4 Defense, I say it is NOT good for college ball. Did you notice the running success that Duke had on sweeps by just pinning in the DL. This takes out 5 guys on the run. I believe that some 3-4 could be OK but 4-3 is better base D. Speaking of the D, we are in woeful need of a couple stud ILB's. Crum and Brockington are just so average. I love Crum's effort, but he just gets swallowed on so many plays. I think that moving someone like Mo Richardson to ILB could be a good move. He will be stuck behind Smith and Neal at OLB, so put him inside. He has more size and speed than Crum.

I don;t think the 3-4 we have so far is a good representation of what it can be. For one reason, we still don't have the right personnel for it. For another, we have a first time coordinator teaching it. Lastly, WV runs a 3-3-5 with an extra safety instead of another LB, except that he cheats up to be a LB on some plays. But if they can have success, a traditional 3-4 can also.

I am willing to give it time and let the young, stronger, faster, more athletic LB's that we have now and are coming in, see what they can do in the 3-4.

Plus, with the addition of lineman that are more suited to the 3-4, the LBs will get help.

If teams can run the 3-4 in the pros where everyone is fast, then they should be able to do it in college.

 

[jonesman]

Piyachi,
I could not disagree more on this one. Many of the mistakes CW has made this season is due to his treating the players, camp, playcalling and more like it is an NFL program. Now he plans to get more NFL advise. He needs to purge his mind and habits of the NFL crap. Our players were NOT prepared for the season due to running an NFL style camp and practices. Our players have bad fundamentals on blocking and tackling because of lacking devolpment by a coach assuming the kids already know these things like NFL players. This is the the freaking NCAA. CW better get it straight or he will be leaving the NCAA for the NFL/

 

[SoCalDomer]

Everyone is freaking on the Charlie advice from NE thing....

He is part of that system. Corwin is part of that system. Why not go to their mutual mentor? Who gives a damn if it's a college HC or NFL HC that he seeks for advice about the D? He already stated that he took Brown because he felt comfortable with the system they had in place with the Pats. It really isn't a big deal, especially since he isn't calling it unlike the O.

Really. Not. A. Big. Deal.

It is a big deal if it means CW still treats this like the NFL-minor leagues. It's not. If that is not his attitude, then I could care less.

But no one can dispute that CW came in here with a bunch of NFL mentalities (practicing less than full speed, practicing without hitting, scheming for every game instead of developing an identity and bread and butter plays) that were absolutely harmful to success at this level.

Plus, if the advise he gets is not applicable to college, then what good does it do to seek it from a mentor who has no frame of mind for the college game?

 

[mbooch]

What did you guys think of the o-line play today?

The O line was ADEQUATE against what might be the worst team in college ball. Clausen was sacked only once, but he got flushed another 4 times, and had three throw aways (oe of which should have been called a grounding). This unit has not shown significant improvement all year, and, unfortunately, until IT does, visions of New Years Day Bowls are simply pipe dreams.
That said, Clausen looked very good, and the three young RB's all looked exceptional. The RECEIVERS have got to get rid of the dropsies, and the KICKER.... well, a win's a win.

 

[piyachi]

I think the major problems like that have been addressed. Other than the half-speed practices what is a tendency he has brought from the NFL that are complete negatives in the college game?

Overscheming - Worked for us for the first two years so I don't think it's really an issue. Blew up in the teams face this year, so he took it back to basics and is building back to that same style (trust me it won't be all screens next year, THANK GOD)

Professionalism over Attitude - Possibly an issue but it really can work, again see 05 and 06. I would like to see more attitude, but I think it should be reserved for big games and I think Weis uses it sparingly and in the correct situations.

As for practice - I think that was half inexperience and half depth issues. Think that's the one bad habit that is getting the boot.

ND hired Weis because of the things he does right and that all came from being a part of the Parcells/Belechic system. It's like people complaining about his attitude, it's just a part of the package - and I think ultimately the results are going to be more than satisfactory. I understand the concern here, but Charlie isn't some John L Smith idiot here - he knows what needs to change and what he should keep. Trying to do some 180 and toss everything he learned from the NFL just because he is a college coach is silly.

Now the one thing I will say is that I hope this was discussed with Corwin, because he needs to let the man do his job. HC/O coord is more than enough no matter how hard he works.

 

[SoCalDomer]

Good points.

I'm just not convinced talking to other NFL coaches is going to be as benficial as talking to college coaches.

You mentioned his attitude and his penchant for going for it. well those things could hurt him. I guess if he's willing to live with the consequences, then it's his choice.

 

[piyachi]

The O line was ADEQUATE against what might be the worst team in college ball. Clausen was sacked only once, but he got flushed another 4 times, and had three throw aways (oe of which should have been called a grounding). This unit has not shown significant improvement all year, and, unfortunately, until IT does, visions of New Years Day Bowls are simply pipe dreams.
That said, Clausen looked very good, and the three young RB's all looked exceptional. The RECEIVERS have got to get rid of the dropsies, and the KICKER.... well, a win's a win.

Yea I wish the lack of sacks was more attributable to the O-line than Clausen stiff-arming would-be tacklers. I mean at this point I guess I am happy with 1 sack, but it's all relative to the other games. 51 (was that Wenger?) was an adequate replacement at center - which is sad considering how it should be a huge downgrade from what Sully could have done this year. Turk made some nice blocks - he seems to be showing some real improvement in the end of the season.

 

[mbooch]

Dont want to be a negative nancy here people but it was DUKE! I'm not happy until we can compete with EVERONE on our schedual.

NDOM, Lou said it well in his book about the '88 season. ND Nation won't REALLY be happy until we win 'em ALL......BIG.

Anyway, the O line is the question mark, no question about it. They are the one unit that has been obviously not ready for prime time all year. Now, they are also BY FAR the youngest O line I've ever seen, so they have nowhere to go but up.

 

[kmoose]

Good points.

I'm just not convinced talking to other NFL coaches is going to be as benficial as talking to college coaches.

You mentioned his attitude and his penchant for going for it. well those things could hurt him. I guess if he's willing to live with the consequences, then it's his choice.

One of the benefits of going outside of college football is that no one is likely to feel like they are going to be helping you beat them at some point in the near future. Coaching is a competitive business. I doubt that many coaches are going to help another college coach get that much stronger. Even if you went to someplace like Texas Tech. Who knows if Texas Tech won't draw ND in a bowl game, next year or the year after? Why give Weis and/or his coaches any insight into your game plans?

 

[GoIrish41]

First, let me say that I was very happy with the way ND played today from 28 minutes into the game until the last 4 minutes. It thought ND was awful on O until Duke fumbled a couple of times at the end of the first half, and I thought the front line players played well until they were pulled.

This is probably going to be a very unpopular thing to say but here goes. When Charlie put Zibby in at QB I thought it was really cool for Zibby, but I thought it was completely disrespectful to Duke. It was almost as if CW was rubbing it in there faces. I'm happy about the win, but I wouldn't be surprised to hear about poor sportsmanship on the part of ND in the media Sunday.

Last note is this: I think the "depth" that played at the end of the game was a good indication about the lack of depth on the ND roster. In two years, the depth that comes into the game will be AT LEAST as good as our starters this year.

The future does look bright, and Jimmy is going to be incredible.

 

[mbooch]

I don't agree that the Zibby thing was disrespectful. I think Zibby has been GREAT for this team, and Weis really appreciates him, and Carlson. It's probabl;y an indication of how relieved Weis was to finally have a real win (instead of a 7 turnover gift). It's been a looong year for him, too, y'know.

 

[Wham]

First, let me say that I was very happy with the way ND played today from 28 minutes into the game until the last 4 minutes. It thought ND was awful on O until Duke fumbled a couple of times at the end of the first half, and I thought the front line players played well until they were pulled.

This is probably going to be a very unpopular thing to say but here goes. When Charlie put Zibby in at QB I thought it was really cool for Zibby, but I thought it was completely disrespectful to Duke. It was almost as if CW was rubbing it in there faces. I'm happy about the win, but I wouldn't be surprised to hear about poor sportsmanship on the part of ND in the media Sunday.

Last note is this: I think the "depth" that played at the end of the game was a good indication about the lack of depth on the ND roster. In two years, the depth that comes into the game will be AT LEAST as good as our starters this year.

The future does look bright, and Jimmy is going to be incredible.

Agree entirely with this post.

 

[piyachi]

Last note is this: I think the "depth" that played at the end of the game was a good indication about the lack of depth on the ND roster. In two years, the depth that comes into the game will be AT LEAST as good as our starters this year.

This is an excellent point, and it honestly didn't occur to me while watching. It's scary to think what would have happened if we had the QB injuries that UCLA did or even a bad string of luck at any position (minus RBs perhaps).

Oh and I halfheartedly disagree about Zibby. We were going to chew down clock and this ensures we don't injure a back who has been rushing the whole game. Maybe Duke can be pissed about it but I challenge you to first find a Duke football fan.

 

[stonebreakerwasgod]

I don't think you can spend all day worrying about what an oppenent thinks is disrespectful. If they were winning at home, they would prolly have done the same thing. It's about the kids, not running up a score. This damn PC crap drives me crazy.

 

[Irish girl]

Hi, I am new and would like to comment on the game. I did not like when CW put Zib in the game at QB. I know that ZIB was having fun but I thought it was a slap in the face of Duke. I also felt that when the score was 28-0, more of the underplayed seniors and walk-ons should have gotten to play. ND is suppose to be a class act-and I don't feel that that was.
I might be in the minority here, but I feel that Evan Sharpely earned the right to play this season over Claussan.

 

[Wham]

Problem with being an NFL - position coach - promoted - to - head - college - coach is that you focus on the individual. Holtz was a TEAM me coach. Weis is a me TEAM coach.

 

[SoCalDomer]

Hi, I am new and would like to comment on the game. I did not like when CW put Zib in the game at QB. I know that ZIB was having fun but I thought it was a slap in the face of Duke. I also felt that when the score was 28-0, more of the underplayed seniors and walk-ons should have gotten to play. ND is suppose to be a class act-and I don't feel that that was.
I might be in the minority here, but I feel that Evan Sharpely earned the right to play this season over Claussan.

Again welcome.

Regarding Clausen versus Sharpley, I agree as did some others that as the most experienced QB in the system he probably should have been penciled in as the starter during the off-season with the opportunity for a younger guy to take the job. If CW hadn't tried the spread option experiment against GT in the opener with Jones, I think he might have been.

However, Sharpley had a couple games to prove himself when Clausen got banged up, and he also came in relief a few prior to that. He did alright in relief in a few games, but I just don't think he showed he deserved the starters role when he did start and play the whole game.

Even if Sharpley started the season, I think Clausen might have taken the job by this point anyway.

 

[Wham]

I don't think you can spend all day worrying about what an oppenent thinks is disrespectful. If they were winning at home, they would prolly have done the same thing. It's about the kids, not running up a score. This damn PC crap drives me crazy.

It is not about what the opponent thinks is disrespectful, and it is not about PC. It is about a head coach taking college punks, squashing silly egos, bashing heads into playing football for your team. It is not about highlighting one player at a time while the rest sit and wonder "Hey what about me? what about the team?"