Politics

[ulukinatme]

Any kid's decision is up to them, their family, and their doctor.

Do you carry the same smoke for kids who's parents feed them a garbage diet? I don't see that topic getting the same traction in the right wing circles, after all the hullabaloo of "natural supplements" I would expect a big push to ensuring parents are feeding their kids a nice balanced diet.

Or, is that the consistent right wing approach to non-white/straight people to make wedge issues into full out culture wars with the facade of caring for kids? "Black fathers are failing their kids" "Trans kids are getting mutilated" "mental health crisis for kids!" - but no solutions are proposed to assist disenfranchised kids, just all this faux outrage and demonizing.

Right, because feeding kids junk food is the same as mutilating a child and failing to discuss the long term ramifications. Doctors would never lie or withhold information from a child (or adult) to make a buck.

So how many mutilated children are acceptable?

 

[Irish#1]

Responding to Boebert situation with some LGBTQ stuff at the white house = A-Ok! This is some really great analysis.
Responding to a post about gender affirming surgeries with stats = omg vortex! he can't stay on topic!

Culture war gunna culture war.

The percentage of people that get cancer is pretty low. Should we dismiss it?

It truly amazes me how people can even think about letting their kid have the surgery let alone let them have it when science shows that mentally the kids aren't ready to make that decision. Making a life altering irreversible decision at an age under18 seems extreme. What is wrong with waiting a few years? You still have 70%-80% of your life left to live as you see fit.

 

[TorontoGold]

Right, because feeding kids junk food is the same as mutilating a child and failing to discuss the long term ramifications. Doctors would never lie or withhold information from a child (or adult) to make a buck.

So how many mutilated children are acceptable?

It's not remotely the same, a poor diet is 10000x worse.

I disagree with the opinion that it is mutilation. As I've stated (many times now) that decision is for the kid/parent/doctor, not for me to force them to do what I think. I know anecdotal evidence is a big attraction for many on the Right, but you really want to paint each persons situation with some carefully selected reddit screenshots?

Do you think these kids should receive education on gender affirming surgeries at school? Should there be someone to discuss this with them? If you believe that the 405 surgeries are a tragedy, how do you limit it?

The percentage of people that get cancer is pretty low. Should we dismiss it?

It truly amazes me how people can even think about letting their kid have the surgery let alone let them have it when science shows that mentally the kids aren't ready to make that decision. Making a life altering irreversible decision at an age under18 seems extreme. What is wrong with waiting a few years? You still have 70%-80% of your life left to live as you see fit.

Let me know which cancer has 405 people that had/have it, and then show me the amount of people that are making it their entire purpose to push it. This is a false equivalency to nth degree. I look forward to discovering this form of cancer I've never heard of and then seeing how much everyone here cares about it, because surely it isn't just that trans people are icky.

 

[Irish#1]

Right, because feeding kids junk food is the same as mutilating a child and failing to discuss the long term ramifications. Doctors would never lie or withhold information from a child (or adult) to make a buck.

So how many mutilated children are acceptable?

Yes Toronto, I have sympathy for these folks.

 

[ulukinatme]

Trust the doctors, they have their patient's best interests at heart. I'd feel sorry for any kid whose parents or doctor talked them into this permanent life changing hell.

 

[Irish#1]

It's not remotely the same, a poor diet is 10000x worse.

I disagree with the opinion that it is mutilation. As I've stated (many times now) that decision is for the kid/parent/doctor, not for me to force them to do what I think. I know anecdotal evidence is a big attraction for many on the Right, but you really want to paint each persons situation with some carefully selected reddit screenshots?

Do you think these kids should receive education on gender affirming surgeries at school? Should there be someone to discuss this with them? If you believe that the 405 surgeries are a tragedy, how do you limit it?



Let me know which cancer has 405 people that had/have it, and then show me the amount of people that are making it their entire purpose to push it. This is a false equivalency to nth degree. I look forward to discovering this form of cancer I've never heard of and then seeing how much everyone here cares about it, because surely it isn't just that trans people are icky.

A poor diet can be reversed fairly easily. A sex change can't. Try again.

 

[TorontoGold]

A poor diet can be reversed fairly easily. A sex change can't. Try again.

More kids with type 2 diabetes than 405 genital surgeries.
Kids with poor diets are more likely to attain less education than kids who have good diets.
Kids with poor diets don't have the nutrients needed for good growth and development.
Kids with poor diets are more susceptible to dental problems.

I could go on, but I think you get the point that 405 kids who, not all, regret the surgery. Looking forward to learning about that cancer you suggested was happening at a similar rate and publicity it is getting that is similar to this.

 

[ulukinatme]

It's not remotely the same, a poor diet is 10000x worse.

I disagree with the opinion that it is mutilation.

A diet can be corrected. Removing sex organs is permanent.

It's mutilation. It's not opinion. It's fact.

mutilate

1. to damage something severely, especially by violently removing a part: 2…

dictionary.cambridge.org

 

[TorontoGold]

A diet can be corrected. Removing sex organs is permanent.

It's mutilation. It's not opinion. It's fact.

mutilate

1. to damage something severely, especially by violently removing a part: 2…

dictionary.cambridge.org

You should go into healthcare, apparently so many issues caused by poor diets can be corrected easily. I can't wait to see how type 2 diabetes is defeated! Kids set back from poor nutrition growing up....it can be fixed! People have gotten testicle transplants before, ovary transplants are a thing, and we know you can get a dick transplant done so....seems like everything can be put back together.

...it's not violent. It's a medical procedure. Do you refer to amputations as mutilation? A diabetic person loses their leg, are they getting mutilated? No? It's only when we don't like a group of people? Ah got it.

 

[ulukinatme]

You should go into healthcare, apparently so many issues caused by poor diets can be corrected easily. I can't wait to see how type 2 diabetes is defeated! Kids set back from poor nutrition growing up....it can be fixed! People have gotten testicle transplants before, ovary transplants are a thing, and we know you can get a dick transplant done so....seems like everything can be put back together.

...it's not violent. It's a medical procedure. Do you refer to amputations as mutilation? A diabetic person loses their leg, are they getting mutilated? No? It's only when we don't like a group of people? Ah got it.

Most gender affirming surgeries are not transplants.
How many trans women have given birth? How long does it take for a trans woman to get their first period? When can they orgasm with their new sex organs?
It's an open wound from mutilation, one they have to practice dilation on twice a day for the rest of their lives to keep it from sealing up.

 

[TorontoGold]

Most gender affirming surgeries are not transplants.
How many trans women have given birth? How long does it take for a trans woman to get their first period? When can they orgasm with their new sex organs?
It's an open wound from mutilation, one they have to practice dilation on twice a day for the rest of their lives to keep it from sealing up.

I don't know any of those stats? Why does any of that matter? How does this relate to "mutilation" and the 405 genital operations?

It's a medical procedure despite the best of efforts conservatives, people can still get these procedures done by medical professionals and not done in some alleyway (yet).

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Once #1 lets us know which cancer is comparable to that, I will look forward to seeing how much media attention that is getting in comparison to kids genitals. I will never be able to understand the obsession that conservatives have with kids dicks. It's bizarre.

 

[ulukinatme]

I don't know any of those stats? Why does any of that matter? How does this relate to "mutilation" and the 405 genital operations?

It's a medical procedure despite the best of efforts conservatives, people can still get these procedures done by medical professionals and not done in some alleyway (yet).

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Once #1 lets us know which cancer is comparable to that, I will look forward to seeing how much media attention that is getting in comparison to kids genitals. I will never be able to understand the obsession that conservatives have with kids dicks. It's bizarre.

You should educate yourself.
Cancer and child sex surgeries...you always make the silliest comparisons. What the hell does cancer have to do with transitioning children? Why do we need to be more outraged over a naturally occurring disease as oppose to parents choosing to mutilate their children, can we not be upset about both? One is at least easily preventable.
Cancer 100% sucks, but it's also not a morally objectionable and elective procedure like sex surgeries on children.
Welcome back to the Vortex.

I will never be able to understand the obsession that liberals have with mutilating children. It's bizarre.

 

[TorontoGold]

You should educate yourself.
Cancer and child sex surgeries...you always make the silliest comparisons. What the hell does cancer have to do with transitioning children? Why do we need to be more outraged over a naturally occurring disease as oppose to parents choosing to mutilate their children, can we not be upset about both? One is at least easily preventable.
Cancer 100% sucks, but it's also not a morally objectionable and elective procedure like sex surgeries on children.
Welcome back to the Vortex.

I will never be able to understand the obsession that liberals have with mutilating children. It's bizarre.

Irish#1 made the comparison LOL not me! Go read above and let him know he's vortexing. I made a call back to his comparison. If you remember, I asked you why you're concerned with an "issue" that's impacting 405 kids and not larger issues. Why is that the case? Why is there an outsized level of outrage on something so miniscule? There were 102 shark bites in 2022 in the US, I hope there's a TurningPointUSA campaign to protect the beaches from sharks.

Lmao obsession would mean that "liberal" media would run constant ads about it....but there isn't anything of the sort. Just grown ass "men" talking about how they want to "protect children" and spend every waking moment thinking and speaking about a kids dick. That is morally objectionable.

 

[drayer54]

Because she's serving in the US House of Representatives she's on the level with the pope now, huh?
Is it less acceptable because she's a grandmother as oppose to a teen? Strange logic. Two consenting adults fooling around over clothes in a dark theatre is pretty small time, it happens every day.
The same people complaining about Boobert fully clothed in a dark theatre are cool with this:

Those are exactly the same thing as Boebert trying to get attention in a theater. Personally, I think she planned it for coverage. She wants to be a star. I think she should never run again.

 

[Irish#1]

More kids with type 2 diabetes than 405 genital surgeries.
Kids with poor diets are more likely to attain less education than kids who have good diets.
Kids with poor diets don't have the nutrients needed for good growth and development.
Kids with poor diets are more susceptible to dental problems.

I could go on, but I think you get the point that 405 kids who, not all, regret the surgery. Looking forward to learning about that cancer you suggested was happening at a similar rate and publicity it is getting that is similar to this.

Of course there are fewer, but Nutrition deficiencies can be more easily reversed than a sex change. It’s not hard to understand.

I would assume that not all regret the decision, but do you really think having them wait until they’re 18 is going to harm them beyond repair?

 

[Irish#1]

I don't know any of those stats? Why does any of that matter? How does this relate to "mutilation" and the 405 genital operations?

It's a medical procedure despite the best of efforts conservatives, people can still get these procedures done by medical professionals and not done in some alleyway (yet).

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5

Once #1 lets us know which cancer is comparable to that, I will look forward to seeing how much media attention that is getting in comparison to kids genitals. I will never be able to understand the obsession that conservatives have with kids dicks. It's bizarre.

Let me clarify. The number of people who get cancer is a small percentage compared to the overall population. You said 405 is a small number so why the outrage? Even though the percentage of people who get cancer is low, we still care. Why?

 

[TorontoGold]

Of course there are fewer, but Nutrition deficiencies can be more easily reversed than a sex change. It’s not hard to understand.

I would assume that not all regret the decision, but do you really think having them wait until they’re 18 is going to harm them beyond repair?

You can get a surgery to get the bits and pieces added back no?

I didn't say anything on the waiting till 18. My personal opinion is that waiting until 18 is probably the best call, but like I've said, that's up to the kid/family/doctor(s) to decide not my dumbass.

Let me clarify. The number of people who get cancer is a small percentage compared to the overall population. You said 405 is a small number so why the outrage? Even though the percentage of people who get cancer is low, we still care. Why?

Because cancer is non-trivial amount, and 405 people in a country with the population of the US is absolutely a trivial amount. Shark attacks + lightning strikes gets to about ~405. With that information in mind, isn't a bit weird for MSM orgs and grown men to make it their entire schtick to talk about kids genitals?

It's not that hard to understand. Lightning strikes and shark attacks. Even then there isn't a "well the shark bite was what I wanted crowd", so it might even be less that actually regret it.

 

[ulukinatme]

Just grown ass "men" talking about how they want to "protect children" and spend every waking moment thinking and speaking about a kids dick. That is morally objectionable.

Advocating to stop wackos from mutilating children is...somehow worse than actually mutilating children, huh? Make it make sense.

 

[TorontoGold]

Advocating to stop wackos from mutilating children is...somehow worse than actually mutilating children, huh? Make it make sense.

Medical procedures aren't mutilation buddy. I really look forward to all references to any sort of bodily surgery as mutilation from here on out. Boob job? Mutilation! Amputations? MUTILATION! Surely it isn't just one off to be speak about trans people in the worst possible way.

Doctors = wackos
Middle age men obsessed with kids dicks and speak about 16 year old girls in terms of fertility = valiant defenders of the sanctity of children

 

[ulukinatme]

Medical procedures aren't mutilation buddy. I really look forward to all references to any sort of bodily surgery as mutilation from here on out. Boob job? Mutilation! Amputations? MUTILATION! Surely it isn't just one off to be speak about trans people in the worst possible way.

Doctors = wackos
Middle age men obsessed with kids dicks and speak about 16 year old girls in terms of fertility = valiant defenders of the sanctity of children

You pick some odd hills to die on.
Let children mutilate their bodies.
Strongly criticize a movie about child sex trafficking that you've never even seen.
Applaud biological men destroying women in sports.
But hey...you do you.

Speaking of which...just saw this today. Men once again pushing women out of their own sport, but it's cool because numbers or whatever.

 

[ulukinatme]

It's okay if kids go through this kind of stuff, cause they're just kids and they know what they want and have sound judgement. I'm sure their doctors will be more forthcoming with the long term ramifications than their were with these people...

For the record, side effects include sterilization, blood clots, higher risk for diabetes and heart disease, and osteoporosis among a number of other things. The trans community failed to mention those to this kid. Misleading kids into life altering changes can be fun!

When Transgender Kids Transition, Medical Risks are Both Known and Unknown | FRONTLINE | PBS | Official Site | Documentary Series

New medical options are allowing transgender children to start the process of transitioning at younger and younger ages. But doctors tread carefully, lacking research on some of the long-term effects.

www.pbs.org

 

[TorontoGold]

You pick some odd hills to die on.
Let children mutilate their bodies.
Strongly criticize a movie about child sex trafficking that you've never even seen.
Applaud biological men destroying women in sports.
But hey...you do you.

Speaking of which...just saw this today. Men once again pushing women out of their own sport, but it's cool because numbers or whatever.

1) I'll let the doctors decide, seems like an uncontroversial opinion to me.
2) The movie made up of straight to TV D list actors that was astroturfed by the alt right? That movie? The one where the lead actor compared himself to moses and Trump to jesus? Yeah I'm not well adjusted.
3) I won't get bent out of shape about a random volleyball tournament in Nowheresville. You can be as upset as you want about that. I'll let the IOC decide the playing field....because again, I am not a biologist.

lmao the horror! Am I supposed to be upset? The same people on this site and from communities that would regularly celebrate or show indifference to trans people getting discriminated against want me to be upset at some random middle aged cycling competition?

I am not dying on any of these hills, look back through any of these threads and you'll see a very consistent theme of many posters obsessed with what kids genitals are. If you would like to be upset at events that happen at levels at the same rate of shark attacks and lightning strikes then by all means go ahead.

The consistent theme here is the only time that conservatives care about trans kids is when they're getting surgery, otherwise fuck them and they should just be invisible. Conservatives would rather demonize an entire community on the pretense of caring about children (when conservative ideology is essentially fuck the poors) because of shark attacks and lightning strikes.

 

[ulukinatme]

1) I'll let the doctors decide, seems like an uncontroversial opinion to me.
2) The movie made up of straight to TV D list actors that was astroturfed by the alt right? That movie? The one where the lead actor compared himself to moses and Trump to jesus? Yeah I'm not well adjusted.
3) I won't get bent out of shape about a random volleyball tournament in Nowheresville. You can be as upset as you want about that. I'll let the IOC decide the playing field....because again, I am not a biologist.

lmao the horror! Am I supposed to be upset? The same people on this site and from communities that would regularly celebrate or show indifference to trans people getting discriminated against want me to be upset at some random middle aged cycling competition?

I am not dying on any of these hills, look back through any of these threads and you'll see a very consistent theme of many posters obsessed with what kids genitals are. If you would like to be upset at events that happen at levels at the same rate of shark attacks and lightning strikes then by all means go ahead.

The consistent theme here is the only time that conservatives care about trans kids is when they're getting surgery, otherwise fuck them and they should just be invisible. Conservatives would rather demonize an entire community on the pretense of caring about children (when conservative ideology is essentially fuck the poors) because of shark attacks and lightning strikes.

Let the doctors decide. Let the doctors decide. Let the doctors decide.
I think the doctors decided they wanted more money and didn't care to tell these people the truth.

For the record it can take 6 months to years for some, but many never will have one post op.

Trust the doctors!

 

[ulukinatme]

Kids should totally be allowed to do this kind of stuff...you know, if a doctor decides mutilation is a good idea.

Maybe a doctor should have told him there's a good chance he'd lose his sex drive before he did a life altering mutilation.

Maybe a doctor should have told him an open wound isn't orgasmic.

But why wait to ruin their lives with bottom surgery. Just sterilize them early by putting them on HRT!

 

[Irish#1]

You can get a surgery to get the bits and pieces added back no?

I didn't say anything on the waiting till 18. My personal opinion is that waiting until 18 is probably the best call, but like I've said, that's up to the kid/family/doctor(s) to decide not my dumbass.



Because cancer is non-trivial amount, and 405 people in a country with the population of the US is absolutely a trivial amount. Shark attacks + lightning strikes gets to about ~405. With that information in mind, isn't a bit weird for MSM orgs and grown men to make it their entire schtick to talk about kids genitals?

It's not that hard to understand. Lightning strikes and shark attacks. Even then there isn't a "well the shark bite was what I wanted crowd", so it might even be less that actually regret it.

You didn't specifically, but saying leave it up to the kid/family/doctor(s) is pretty much implying that. As much as we'd like to think every parent thinks reasonably and with maturity, that's not always the case. The same with doctors. This is where I think laws need to be in place to make sure when that decision is made the person is old enough to have had some time to process and are more mature to make that decision.

Claiming others are outraged and fixated on kids genitals is funny. Just stating an opinion. Yet, here you are defending it. What's that saying about "doth protest too much"?

 

[TorontoGold]

You didn't specifically, but saying leave it up to the kid/family/doctor(s) is pretty much implying that. As much as we'd like to think every parent thinks reasonably and with maturity, that's not always the case. The same with doctors. This is where I think laws need to be in place to make sure when that decision is made the person is old enough to have had some time to process and are more mature to make that decision.

Claiming others are outraged and fixated on kids genitals is funny. Just stating an opinion. Yet, here you are defending it. What's that saying about "doth protest too much"?

Leaving it to those three to come up with a decision seems pretty reasonable. The kid should have a say over their body, the parent can provide their input as the kids guardian, and the doctor would be able to give the medical sign off. Think that covers the only people who should have a say.

I mean, if you look through this thread there is a mountain of screenshots from reddit and continuous posts about trans surgeries. Which side of the argument do you think has posted more on this? I'm not fixated on the genital part though, I don't need to know what parts a kid has down there. It won't impact my opinion on them and as long as the doctor and the kid are ok with it, then it shouldn't matter what my opinion is.

Again, this is shark attacks and lightning strikes. It's not healthy for grown men to consume this much content on children's genitals, Matt Walsh and his ilk are essentially MSM sex pests.

 

[ulukinatme]

Leaving it to those three to come up with a decision seems pretty reasonable. The kid should have a say over their body, the parent can provide their input as the kids guardian, and the doctor would be able to give the medical sign off. Think that covers the only people who should have a say.

I mean, if you look through this thread there is a mountain of screenshots from reddit and continuous posts about trans surgeries. Which side of the argument do you think has posted more on this? I'm not fixated on the genital part though, I don't need to know what parts a kid has down there. It won't impact my opinion on them and as long as the doctor and the kid are ok with it, then it shouldn't matter what my opinion is.

Again, this is shark attacks and lightning strikes. It's not healthy for grown men to consume this much content on children's genitals, Matt Walsh and his ilk are essentially MSM sex pests.

People trying to protect kids aren't sex pests.
Doctors and parents that would allow a child to be mutilated are sex pests.

 

[TorontoGold]

People trying to protect kids aren't sex pests.
Doctors and parents that would allow a child to be mutilated are sex pests.

People who spend every waking minute obsessed with what genital part a kid has is absolutely a sex pest. Matt Walsh is a great example of this. He has spoken about underage girls fertility for example. This is not someone who should be championed as "protecting kids".

Do you consider amputations to be considered mutilation? Yes or no? Because that is a medical procedure too. Using "mutilation" to push faux outrage 405 medical procedures is tacky.

This is just transphobia dressed up in some sort of "protect the kids" by sex pests over shark attacks and lightning strikes, that's all it is. I can't believe people allow themselves to be consumed by this. If you find yourself thinking about what genitals another child has, might be time to take a step back.

 

[Irish#1]

People who spend every waking minute obsessed with what genital part a kid has is absolutely a sex pest. Matt Walsh is a great example of this. He has spoken about underage girls fertility for example. This is not someone who should be championed as "protecting kids".

Do you consider amputations to be considered mutilation? Yes or no? Because that is a medical procedure too. Using "mutilation" to push faux outrage 405 medical procedures is tacky.

This is just transphobia dressed up in some sort of "protect the kids" by sex pests over shark attacks and lightning strikes, that's all it is. I can't believe people allow themselves to be consumed by this. If you find yourself thinking about what genitals another child has, might be time to take a step back.

I find the topic interesting to discuss, but outside of this thread I don’t find myself thinking about it at all.

 

[ulukinatme]

I find the topic interesting to discuss, but outside of this thread I don’t find myself thinking about it at all.

Same.

I'm not going to discuss it any further at this time because I realize I'm wasting my breath. As a father of three kids I find it very questionable that anyone of sound mind would let a child ruin their body in such a way. I'm also an uncle, damn near adoptive father, to a niece that was abused by her biological father as a toddler. As she grew up she was struggling with her own sexuality and gender as a result of the abuse, to a point she started going by a new name which we acknowledged. We let her find her own way and after a bad relationship with another girl she ended up meeting a boy that changed her world and she reversed course completely. I can understand how trauma and mental illness can affect a person, but I've also seen how that community can be enticing to these hurt kids. They'll paint a rosy picture what transitioning is like and they (Along with the doctors collecting the money) will leave out much of the negatives so transitioners aren't dissuaded. Adults are free to make those decisions about their own bodies once they're of age, but it should never be made by kids or for kids. We supported our niece to a point that stops at mutilation, and we agreed with her mother that we'd never allow her to make a mistake and permanently disfigure her body while she was under 18. There are other options that don't involve the regret and complications that come from transitioning.

Morality isn't defined by frequency of a sin. It only takes one sin to be immoral. It doesn't matter if it's 405 or 405,000. Wrong is wrong.