Politics

Politics

  • Obama

    Votes: 4 1.1%
  • Romney

    Votes: 172 48.9%
  • Other

    Votes: 46 13.1%
  • a:3:{i:1637;a:5:{s:12:"polloptionid";i:1637;s:6:"nodeid";s:7:"2882145";s:5:"title";s:5:"Obama";s:5:"

    Votes: 130 36.9%

  • Total voters
    352

ACamp1900

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I’m not what abouting at all. Case in point Willie Brown caught a rash of shit (rightfully so in my opinion) everywhere he went in San Francisco when he was mayor. He understood that was part of the job and to his credit usually engaged with those who were calling him out. He sure as hell didn’t hold a press conference and try to make himself into a victim. All politicians should understand that with the power they wield they should be ready for criticism at all times.

Did any of his political opponents openly call for him to be harassed? Criticism is one thing, I think party leaders actively calling for harassment of the other side is a very dangerous precedent.
 

Irish YJ

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You don’t remember the standoff at the National Wildlife refuge in Oregon?

I think people make a choice when they decide to run for office to be open to criticism from the public whenever and wherever. If they find that to be too much they can choose not to run for office.

Lol. Are you talking about the occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge ?
That's a huge stretch. Those guys were anti fed railing against land management, not Obama.
 

Irish YJ

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Dearest,<br>Mad Maxine & the SJ Road Warriors are taking time to regroup after the successful Battle of Red Hen. We plan to meet up with Martha's Vineyard Battalion fresh off their squashing of the traitor Dershowitz. Onward to Amy Barrett's favorite eatery. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/secondcivilwarletters?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#secondcivilwarletters</a></p>— Irish JK (@IrishYJ) <a href="https://twitter.com/IrishYJ/status/1014240955552161798?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 3, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 

Bluto

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Did any of his political opponents openly call for him to be harassed?

Yes. A number of groups called for the public to confront him regarding his policies towards development (mostly live work lofts) in SF. Again, to his credit he engaged with just about every person that ever confronted him. I remember specifically he was having coffee at a local cafe and once word got out people began showing up to confront him and a lively 2 hour policy debate ensued.
 

ACamp1900

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Yes. A number of groups called for the public to confront him regarding his policies towards development (mostly live work lofts) in SF. Again, to his credit he engaged with just about every person that ever confronted him. I remember specifically he was having coffee at a local cafe and once word got out people began showing up to confront him and a lively 2 hour policy debate ensued.

Then that too is bullshit... criticize in the papers and beat him in the election but let a person have a cup of coffee in piece. You shouldn’t lose that right just because you’re in politics. No matter who you are SOMEONE is gonna think you’re Satan and worth having your life ruined...
 

Bluto

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Lol. Are you talking about the occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge ?
That's a huge stretch. Those guys were anti fed railing against land management, not Obama.

So, sworn federal agents aka “the Fed’s” who enforce federal law are not “law enforcement”. Ok.
 

Irish YJ

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So, sworn federal agents aka “the Fed’s” who enforce federal law are not “law enforcement”. Ok.

The group who were occupying were anti fed activist doing what they were doing because of land management. They were not "GOPers" protesting Obama policy.
 

ACamp1900

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Then that too is bullshit... criticize in the papers and beat him in the election but let a person have a cup of coffee in piece. You shouldn’t lose that right just because you’re in politics. No matter who you are SOMEONE is gonna think you’re Satan and worth having your life ruined...

Or as YJ touched on, save it for a planned public speaking event... civility should be something we can easily find national agreement on. Sadly, even that seems to be simply partisan in practice.
 

Bluto

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Then that too is bullshit... criticize in the papers and beat him in the election but let a person have a cup of coffee in piece. You shouldn’t lose that right just because you’re in politics. No matter who you are SOMEONE is gonna think you’re Satan and worth having your life ruined...

How is being challenged publicly on the policies you are enacting that are having dramatic effects on people’s lives bullshit and constitute ruining ones life if that is the “life” you knowingly choose?
 

ACamp1900

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How is being challenged publicly on the policies you are enacting that are having dramatic effects on people’s lives bullshit and constitute ruining ones life if that is the “life” you knowingly choose?

See above...
 

Irish YJ

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Or as YJ touched on, save it for a planned public speaking event... civility should be something we can easily find national agreement on. Sadly, even that seems to be simply partisan in practice.

I don't know who said it on MSNBC this morning, but he said, "feel free to disagree, but you don't have to be disagreeable... and never during a persons time with their family" or something similar.
 

Irish YJ

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How is being challenged publicly on the policies you are enacting that are having dramatic effects on people’s lives bullshit and constitute ruining ones life if that is the “life” you knowingly choose?

When you take your family to a movie, and you get screamed at.... well you might be afraid to take the kids out again. Your kids might be afraid to go out... I don't care what you say, that's not acceptable.
 

Bluto

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The group who were occupying were anti fed activist doing what they were doing because of land management. They were not "GOPers" protesting Obama policy.

So we are now limiting it to actual “GOPers”? Ok since you no longer wish to paint with a broad brush do you honestly believe all the members of ANTIFA and that guy who punched that Trump supporter in the videos that were posted are registered Democrats or “DNCers”?
 

Irish YJ

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So we are now limiting it to actual “GOPers”? Ok since you no longer wish to paint with a broad brush do you honestly believe all the members of ANTIFA and that guy who punched that Trump supporter in the videos that were posted are registered Democrats or “DNCers”?

My earlier examples (what I've been talking about all along) were the libs in ATL and Oregon (there was a Dem political contingent at both rallies) and the harassment of GOP staffers (definitely Dems). My brush has not been broad. They are railing against Trump.
 

Bluto

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When you take your family to a movie, and you get screamed at.... well you might be afraid to take the kids out again. Your kids might be afraid to go out... I don't care what you say, that's not acceptable.

So, enacting policy that separates a child from their family is acceptable but confronting a member of an administration who enacted said policy in front of their children is not. Just making sure I’m getting this all straight.
 

ACamp1900

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So, enacting policy that separates a child from their family is acceptable but confronting a member of an administration who enacted said policy in front of their children is not. Just making sure I’m getting this all straight.

My father and uncle are dead because of the dems healthcare bill, I’ve detailed how in here numerous times before... I guess I have the right to stalk any democrat, their family and hell maybe I have a right to take a random family member of theirs.... you know because, ‘they deserve it’
 

Bluto

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My father and uncle are dead because of the dems healthcare bill, I’ve detailed how in here numerous times before... I guess I have the right to stalk any democrat, their family and hell maybe I have a right to take a random family member of theirs.... you know because, ‘they deserve it’

If you told Maxine Waters that to her face at Starbucks I would have no problem with that. I’m also sorry for your loss.
 

ACamp1900

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So, enacting policy that separates a child from their family is acceptable but confronting a member of an administration who enacted said policy in front of their children is not. Just making sure I’m getting this all straight.

To be clear, confront them at announced events, that’s what that’s for... anyone can find a reason to validate harassing any politician. There’s a time and place, and when a person is just trying to have a cup of coffee on their own time isn’t it imo. It’s important we remain civil, Sanders, Brown, regardless...
 

ACamp1900

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If you told Maxine Waters that to her face at Starbucks I would have no problem with that. I’m also sorry for your loss.

Thanks. To be clear, I’d scream a storm at any of them if they tried to give a speech near me. If they were just passing through on their way to Los Angeles and a conservative told me, ‘let’s get them!! I heard they’re at Starbucks down the street” sincerely,... screw that...
 

Irish YJ

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So, enacting policy that separates a child from their family is acceptable but confronting a member of an administration who enacted said policy in front of their children is not. Just making sure I’m getting this all straight.

So a parent or non-parent dragging their kid or kids thousands of miles on foot through harsh terrain, in the back of trailers, while knowing rape is part of the process is great parenting. And breaking the law needs no repercussion, just a free pass ahead of the millions waiting 10+ years for legal migration. Got it.

So all kids of Trump's staff, or kids of any Trump voters deserve to be scared. Got it.
 

Bluto

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To be clear, confront them at announced events, that’s what that’s for... anyone can find a reason to validate harassing any politician. There’s a time and place, and when a person is just trying to have a cup of coffee on their own time isn’t it imo. It’s important we remain civil, Sanders, Brown, regardless...

I respect your opinion. 99 times out of 100 I would tend agree with you. There are some cases though where policies are so beyond the pale that those behind them deserve to be confronted even when it is not considered “civil” and or a “polite” time to do so.
 

ACamp1900

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I respect your opinion. 99 times out of 100 I would tend agree with you. There are some cases though where policies are so beyond the pale that those behind them deserve to be confronted even when it is not considered “civil” and or a “polite” time to do so.

And there is a person out there who believes THAT policy is the one.... for every. Single. Policy. Out. There.

That’s the problem... it’s a very clear all or nothing imo. Just my two cents.
 

Bluto

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Thanks. To be clear, I’d scream a storm at any of them if they tried to give a speech near me. If they were just passing through on their way to Los Angeles and a conservative told me, ‘let’s get them!! I heard they’re at Starbucks down the street” sincerely,... screw that...

I hear you. I talk a good game put in reality I’m mostly at home watching conspiracy videos on You Tube and working on the house
 
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Bluto

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So a parent or non-parent dragging their kid or kids thousands of miles on foot through harsh terrain, in the back of trailers, while knowing rape is part of the process is great parenting. And breaking the law needs no repercussion, just a free pass ahead of the millions waiting 10+ years for legal migration. Got it.

So all kids of Trump's staff, or kids of any Trump voters deserve to be scared. Got it.

Well, it seems we have reached some form of agreement. Children have to deal with the decisions made by their parents. If the border patrol agents wanted to wag a finger at the immigrant children’s parents and tell them how wrong they were yet still allow the family to stay intact I could live with that.
 

Irish YJ

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Well, it seems we have reached some form of agreement. Children have to deal with the decisions made by their parents. If the border patrol agents wanted to wag a finger at the immigrant children’s parents and tell them how wrong they were yet still allow the family to stay intact I could live with that.

The families are now being detained together. We're just waiting on the those separated to be reunited. And I've been pretty clear, I'm not for separating families.

My point was, the parents put their kids in harm's way by dragging them through MX. A staffer is not putting a child in harm's way by working for someone. The harassers are putting them in harms way.

If you think a politician's children deserve to be harassed and scared because of policy issues, or who they work for, I'm not sure what to say.
 

EddytoNow

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The families are now being detained together. We're just waiting on the those separated to be reunited. And I've been pretty clear, I'm not for separating families.

My point was, the parents put their kids in harm's way by dragging them through MX. A staffer is not putting a child in harm's way by working for someone. The harassers are putting them in harms way.

If you think a politician's children deserve to be harassed and scared because of policy issues, or who they work for, I'm not sure what to say.

In most of these cases of immigrants from Central America, the conditions in their homeland pose more risk than being dragged through Mexico and seeking asylum in the USA. Both staying in their homeland and traveling a few thousand miles under less than ideal conditions pose dangers. However, remaining in a violent, lawless country is the more dangerous of the two options. They will keep coming as long as where they're going is providing a glimmer of hope.

Nobody's children deserve to be harassed. It doesn't matter whether or not they are a politician's children or the children of immigrants. All children deserve to be protected. That should be the bottom line.
 

Bluto

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The families are now being detained together. We're just waiting on the those separated to be reunited. And I've been pretty clear, I'm not for separating families.

My point was, the parents put their kids in harm's way by dragging them through MX. A staffer is not putting a child in harm's way by working for someone. The harassers are putting them in harms way.

If you think a politician's children deserve to be harassed and scared because of policy issues, or who they work for, I'm not sure what to say.

How do you know that the kids were not already in harms way? In many cases it seems like the situation faced by these parents is a damned if you do damned if you don't one. In that sense what choice do they have? Your attempts to equate that with some posh jerks who choose to be in politics getting admonished in front of their kids is pretty absurd.
 
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Irish YJ

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In most of these cases of immigrants from Central America, the conditions in their homeland pose more risk than being dragged through Mexico and seeking asylum in the USA. Both staying in their homeland and traveling a few thousand miles under less than ideal conditions pose dangers. However, remaining in a violent, lawless country is the more dangerous of the two options. They will keep coming as long as where they're going is providing a glimmer of hope.

Nobody's children deserve to be harassed. It doesn't matter whether or not they are a politician's children or the children of immigrants. All children deserve to be protected. That should be the bottom line.

Many would also say, that true asylum seekers could go to other closer countries, or CA's could stay in MX (which is typical international asylum law). It's also pretty evident that some bring their kids knowing their chances with a kid are better... Perfect example is the child on the Time cover. The mother left her husband and 3 other children without telling them. She wanted to join other family here and had a job lined up per the husband. She was not fleeing persecution. She had also been deported before when she attempted to come by herself.

Sorry, but I'm very skeptical of most "asylum" claims. The system is being manipulated, and the economic asylum seekers make it very hard to help the actual persecuted asylum seekers. By playing the CA card, you're pretty much saying anyone from Guatemala, Honduras, or El Salvado should have an automatic free pass into the US.

Compare Syria to the CA Triangle. Syria is war torn while the CA Triangle has gangs. Europe is turning away boats from Syria, yet we're horrible for not having an open border for CA.
 

Irish YJ

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How do you know that the kids were not already in harms way? In many cases it seems like the situation faced by these parents is a damned if you do damned if you don't one. In that sense what choice do they have? Your attempts to equate that with some posh jerks who choose to be in politics getting admonished in front of their kinds is pretty absurd.

Like above, the system is being manipulated. Case and point, the Time magazine child.
 

Irish YJ

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Eddy / Bluto,

So answer this...

You are a parent living in a neighborhood with violent gangs.

1) You can travel 1 mile for free and take refuge in a safe, but not rich house.

OR

2) You can pay violent gangs thousands of dollars to take you and your kids on a dangerous 10 mile journey to a safe and rich house.

What do you do? Do you take the closest and least dangerous path to safety, or do you put your kids through much more danger to get to the fancy house?
 
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