Politics

[Polish Leppy 22]

Obama: "Violent Extremism" Has "Metastasized" But "I Do Not Consider It An Existential Threat" | Video | RealClearPolitics

No shocker here. The new left either refuses to call it what it is (violent extremism???) because they'd rather be politically correct, and they refuse to admit the danger it poses to all of us.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Middle class decline looms over final years of Obama presidency | Reuters

 

[Buster Bluth]

Middle class decline looms over final years of Obama presidency | Reuters

Not exactly sure what he could have done differently.

Automation and the offshoring of manufacturing and service jobs continue to transform industries and communities...

That about sums it up.

 

[Cackalacky]

I just paid $1.70 for a gallon of gas

#ThanksObama.

 

[BobD]

I just paid $1.70 for a gallon of gas

#ThanksObama.

Yep gas prices are low, stock market is at record highs and unemployment is lower than it was in 2008. Obama sucks.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Not exactly sure what he could have done differently.



That about sums it up.

He rammed ACA done our throats and we're paying more, not less, for healthcare. Probably start there.

I know you're obsessed with automation and robotics, but one thing that isn't Obama's fault is the lack of talent in technical fields like IT and Engineering. When people say there are "no jobs", they're full of shit. There are a ton of jobs out there. Not a lot of people with the necessary skills.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Yep gas prices are low, stock market is at record highs and unemployment is lower than it was in 2008. Obama sucks.

Gas: How exactly does any president's actions (or lack of actions) determine gas prices? Enlighten me.

Stock market: Easy, tiger. The Next Round of the Great Crisis as Begun | Zero Hedge. "Again, the primary driver of stocks is no longer fundamentals, but Central Bank intervention."

Unemployment: Yes, the number looks good on paper but as noted above the middle class is still seeing declining income and higher costs of living.

Oh, and he still refuses to use the phrase "Islamic terrorism." Glad to see at least the British PM isn't afraid to call it what it is: David Cameron vows to take on ‘Islamic extremism’ | New York Post

 

[pkt77242]

He rammed ACA done our throats and we're paying more, not less, for healthcare. Probably start there.

I know you're obsessed with automation and robotics, but one thing that isn't Obama's fault is the lack of talent in technical fields like IT and Engineering. When people say there are "no jobs", they're full of shit. There are a ton of jobs out there. Not a lot of people with the necessary skills.

I am so tired of hearing about the ACA.

So last year premiums went up about 7% nationwide (which is pretty typical historically) and we got millions of more people insured. Healthcare gets more expensive every year, don't blame Obama, blame insurance companies, they are the ones raising the premium. Also the fact that insurance premiums only went up 7% is pretty good because most people buying on the private market had to buy a more expensive policy before that provides better coverage.

Here is a good breakdown.
http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2014/sep/29/republican-party-florida/health-insurance-costs-are-skyrocketing-under-obam/

 

[Buster Bluth]

He rammed ACA done our throats and we're paying more, not less, for healthcare. Probably start there.

I'm no fan of the ACA. It was a bill written by corporations for corporations. It didn't solve the issues with American healthcare.

When it comes to the middle class' downfall though, that's really not the problem. It's just plain impossible to make an argument connecting Obama, the ACA, and harming the middle class when the trend for health care costs has been absurd for a while.

(I totally agree that rising costs are harming the middle class, but for me the issue of tens of millions of people not getting decent pay raises is far more indicative of an economy not paying off like its supposed to.)

I know you're obsessed with automation and robotics,

Until someone has explanations for the incredible pace at which people's skills are being rendered obsolete (and thus not worth a respectable wage), I'll continue to point to it as a main culprit for the middle class' extinction.

but one thing that isn't Obama's fault is the lack of talent in technical fields like IT and Engineering. When people say there are "no jobs", they're full of shit. There are a ton of jobs out there. Not a lot of people with the necessary skills.

The problem there is that the majority of people just don't have what it takes to be a competent engineer. We need jobs for average Americans too, that's the middle class were talking about.

STEM jobs are super, but at the end of the day if there aren't decent jobs for people with an associate degree, high school diploma, or non-STEM bachelors then we're pretty screwed. We simply can't have an economy in which it's "upper middle class or GTFO."

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

I am so tired of hearing about the ACA.

So last year premiums went up about 7% nationwide (which is pretty typical historically) and we got millions of more people insured. Healthcare gets more expensive every year, don't blame Obama, blame insurance companies, they are the ones raising the premium. Also the fact that insurance premiums only went up 7% is pretty good because most people buying on the private market had to buy a more expensive policy before that provides better coverage.

Here is a good breakdown.
Health insurance costs are skyrocketing under Obamacare, Republican Party says | PolitiFact Florida

The entire thing was a lie. It was about government intervention and control, not healthcare.

We were told the costs would go down. They did not.

We were told if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor. That was not true, until the pres unconstitutionally re-wrote the law on his own to save his ass. The real ass kicker comes this year, 2015, with ACA.

 

[Buster Bluth]

The entire thing was a lie. It was about government intervention and control, not healthcare.

We were told the costs would go down. They did not.

We were told if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor. That was not true, until the pres unconstitutionally re-wrote the law on his own to save his ass. The real ass kicker comes this year, 2015, with ACA.

I think more like health insurance companies getting more costumers. It's a corporate answer to a corporate problem, so of course it didn't solve the problem.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

I'm no fan of the ACA. It was a bill written by corporations for corporations. It didn't solve the issues with American healthcare.

When it comes to the middle class' downfall though, that's really not the problem. It's just plain impossible to make an argument connecting Obama, the ACA, and harming the middle class when the trend for health care costs has been absurd for a while.

(I totally agree that rising costs are harming the middle class, but for me the issue of tens of millions of people not getting decent pay raises is far more indicative of an economy not paying off like its supposed to.)



Until someone has explanations for the incredible pace at which people's skills are being rendered obsolete (and thus not worth a respectable wage), I'll continue to point to it as a main culprit for the middle class' extinction.



The problem there is that the majority of people just don't have what it takes to be a competent engineer. We need jobs for average Americans too, that's the middle class were talking about.

STEM jobs are super, but at the end of the day if there aren't decent jobs for people with an associate degree, high school diploma, or non-STEM bachelors then we're pretty screwed. We simply can't have an economy in which it's "upper middle class or GTFO."

I didn't say ACA was the sole factor. I said it was a start. We were told ACA would lower health costs. Lie, and they all knew it.

People's skills being obsolete: we need to adjust our approach to education on a large scale. We need much heavier focus on skilled trade and less on British Literature. Machinists are still in demand and make a decent living. Just one example.

You're right, we all can't be computer engineers. We can be financial analysts. We can be accountants. We can be business leaders. We can be x ray techs. The reason there are so many unfilled STEM related jobs (lack of competence) is because the US ranks outside the top 20 globally in math and science, and that is embarrassing.

I can't stand the US companies who outsource so much of their operation and middle class Americans get screwed. On the flip side, if we had more competent, skilled workers in the US and a more competitive corporate tax structure, it'd eliminate some of that problem and fewer US companies would be begging for people with H1 work visas in certain areas.

 

[pkt77242]

The entire thing was a lie. It was about government intervention and control, not healthcare.

We were told the costs would go down. They did not.

We were told if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor. That was not true, until the pres unconstitutionally re-wrote the law on his own to save his ass. The real ass kicker comes this year, 2015, with ACA.

First off you originally said costs went up and I showed that they went up at a typical rate for the past decade or so. Also you are failing to recognize that people have better insurance and more people are insured without raising prices (outside of the expected growth).

I would argue that it wasn't enough government intervention. The problem with the ACA is that insurance companies can jack the price up while it is being implemented and then blame the ACA, thus padding their profits (as we have seen as Health Insurance companies have been making loads of money). Here is a good example of it. http://www.modernhealthcare.com/article/20141028/NEWS/310289966

Aetna's profits exceeded expectations in the third quarter, with enrollment growth and higher margins on its government business boosting earnings.

I am on the record as saying that the ACA is better then what we had but not a fix for our healthcare ills as as long as private companies are involved they are still going to want to make a large profit. Healthcare costs won't truly go down until we take for profit companies out of the equation.

 

[BobD]

Gas: How exactly does any president's actions (or lack of actions) determine gas prices? Enlighten me.

Stock market: Easy, tiger. The Next Round of the Great Crisis as Begun | Zero Hedge. "Again, the primary driver of stocks is no longer fundamentals, but Central Bank intervention."

Unemployment: Yes, the number looks good on paper but as noted above the middle class is still seeing declining income and higher costs of living.

Oh, and he still refuses to use the phrase "Islamic terrorism." Glad to see at least the British PM isn't afraid to call it what it is: David Cameron vows to take on ‘Islamic extremism’ | New York Post

You'd be saying something completely different if a republican was in office. Spin away.

 

[ACamp1900]

You'd be saying something completely different if a republican was in office. Spin away.

He sure would, and so would you, don't even front...

 

[marv81s]

Gas: Thanks fracking and to all of those drill permits that were issued back when W was president

Stock Market: thank the Fed and their reckless printing of money and keeping the interest rate low artificially and when that bell comes a ringing we are all in for a world of hurt, especially our kids, if anyone has any. They are the ones that are in for a big world of hurt.

Unemployment: Those that really think we are in a recovery need to have their brain scanned. The rate is "low" because they don't count all of the millions that have given up looking for a job and are not getting benefits and because they have been counting part time employment.

This president has been a disaster in every sense of the world, except for those that were not fans of America and wanted to see if fundamentally transformed also

 

[Buster Bluth]

Gas: Thanks fracking and to all of those drill permits that were issued back when W was president

Stock Market: thank the Fed and their reckless printing of money and keeping the interest rate low artificially and when that bell comes a ringing we are all in for a world of hurt, especially our kids, if anyone has any. They are the ones that are in for a big world of hurt.

Unemployment: Those that really think we are in a recovery need to have their brain scanned. The rate is "low" because they don't count all of the millions that have given up looking for a job and are not getting benefits and because they have been counting part time employment.

This president has been a disaster in every sense of the world, except for those that were not fans of America and wanted to see if fundamentally transformed also

 

[BobD]

He sure would, and so would you, don't even front...

That's where you're wrong Sir. I make up my own mind on things, a party doesn't give me my opinion.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

You'd be saying something completely different if a republican was in office. Spin away.

Nah, I'd be calling a spade a spade. I despise Boehner, McConnell, McCain, etc. and make it well known on here. Your blind worship a the altar of Obama is why you think we're on the up and up and Obama fixed everything, albeit that damn Republican "obstruction" haha

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

First off you originally said costs went up and I showed that they went up at a typical rate for the past decade or so. Also you are failing to recognize that people have better insurance and more people are insured without raising prices (outside of the expected growth).

I would argue that it wasn't enough government intervention. The problem with the ACA is that insurance companies can jack the price up while it is being implemented and then blame the ACA, thus padding their profits (as we have seen as Health Insurance companies have been making loads of money). Here is a good example of it. http://www.modernhealthcare.com/article/20141028/NEWS/310289966



I am on the record as saying that the ACA is better then what we had but not a fix for our healthcare ills as as long as private companies are involved they are still going to want to make a large profit. Healthcare costs won't truly go down until we take for profit companies out of the equation.

Read again. We were promised that ACA would LOWER the cost, not raise it. That was a lie and they knew it.

Try selling that to the people of Cuba and Venezuela.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Marv please correct me if I'm wrong but my translation was: this president and his policies have been a disaster for our country, unless you wanted to see America undergo fundamental transformation, in which case it was a success.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Al Sharpton meltdown in 3...2...

VIDEO: ‘American Sniper’ Scores a Record Breaking Box Office Bulls Eye with $105.2M Four-Day Takings!

RIP Chris Kyle

 

[pkt77242]

Read again. We were promised that ACA would LOWER the cost, not raise it. That was a lie and they knew it.

Try selling that to the people of Cuba and Venezuela.

You literally chose the two worst countries. LOL.

The 36 Best Healthcare Systems In The World - Business Insider

Typical Polish Leppy, choosing the worst of the worst. How about you look at France, UK, or just about anyone on that list. Most of the countries use some form of public healthcare system (either strictly public or a combo of the two).

Also it wasn't a lie, it is what they thought would happen though they were mistaken to believe that as they should have realized that private companies would just add the extra income to their bottom line.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

You literally chose the two worst countries. LOL.

The 36 Best Healthcare Systems In The World - Business Insider

Typical Polish Leppy, choosing the worst of the worst. How about you look at France, UK, or just about anyone on that list. Most of the countries use some form of public healthcare system (either strictly public or a combo of the two).

Also it wasn't a lie, it is what they thought would happen though they were mistaken to believe that as they should have realized that private companies would just add the extra income to their bottom line.

You can giggle all you want. The people in those two countries are suffering because they put far too much trust in a federal government that promised a lot more than it could deliver (both corrupt), and here we are trying to duplicate failed systems. Remarkable.

On those brilliant European models: how are we measuring "the best?" My guess is to support your misguided argument it is based on "people covered" rather than quality.

Yes, it was a lie. From the beginning. Libertarians and conservatives were smart enough to realize it from the beginning, and that's why the majority of Americans still oppose it.

Did you forget this? http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/10/u...mit-regrets-arrogance-on-health-law.html?_r=0

"...he said the law had been adopted, in part, because of the stupidity of voters and a “lack of transparency” about its financing."

And there's the icing on the cake. The modern American left at its best: we know what's best for you because we're that much smarter, and this package is so sweet it'll be mandatory. And we're doing it for the "middle class" and "working" families. Disgusting.

 

[pkt77242]

You can giggle all you want. The people in those two countries are suffering because they put far too much trust in a federal government that promised a lot more than it could deliver (both corrupt), and here we are trying to duplicate failed systems. Remarkable.

On those brilliant European models: how are we measuring "the best?" My guess is to support your misguided argument it is based on "people covered" rather than quality.

Yes, it was a lie. From the beginning. Libertarians and conservatives were smart enough to realize it from the beginning, and that's why the majority of Americans still oppose it.

Did you forget this? http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/10/u...mit-regrets-arrogance-on-health-law.html?_r=0

"...he said the law had been adopted, in part, because of the stupidity of voters and a “lack of transparency” about its financing."

And there's the icing on the cake. The modern American left at its best: we know what's best for you because we're that much smarter, and this package is so sweet it'll be mandatory. And we're doing it for the "middle class" and "working" families. Disgusting.

Not just most covered though that is important (if 15% of your population doesn't have healthcare shockingly it is a shitty system) but infant mortality rates and costs of insurance. Since you are so caught up in it should be cheaper. The best way to get inexpensive healthcare is to go with a public plan.

Shockingly we spend significantly more per person on healthcare then any other country, for slightly better healthcare. The reason why is that our insurance companies (and some for profit hospitals) take a large cut of it. If you want cheaper healthcare we have to remove for profit companies.
List of countries by total health expenditure (PPP) per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As far as Cuba and Venezuela, there are plenty of countries with public healthcare with significantly better healthcare (Pretty much all of Europe, Canada, etc).

Business (besides insurance companies) should love it as they would know exactly what their costs will be for healthcare year to year as it will be a tax per employee. Very easy to plan for growth when you know the costs are while our current system has companies guessing from year to year.

 

[IrishinSyria]

You can giggle all you want. The people in those two countries are suffering because they put far too much trust in a federal government that promised a lot more than it could deliver (both corrupt), and here we are trying to duplicate failed systems. Remarkable.

On those brilliant European models: how are we measuring "the best?" My guess is to support your misguided argument it is based on "people covered" rather than quality.

Yes, it was a lie. From the beginning. Libertarians and conservatives were smart enough to realize it from the beginning, and that's why the majority of Americans still oppose it.

Did you forget this? http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/10/u...mit-regrets-arrogance-on-health-law.html?_r=0

"...he said the law had been adopted, in part, because of the stupidity of voters and a “lack of transparency” about its financing."

And there's the icing on the cake. The modern American left at its best: we know what's best for you because we're that much smarter, and this package is so sweet it'll be mandatory. And we're doing it for the "middle class" and "working" families. Disgusting.

It wasn't a lie, Gruber being an idiot notwithstanding. There were two alternative theories of what gave the Federal Govt. the power to enact the ACA. One was the government's power to tax. Viewed through that lens, they basically enacted a mass tax and then allowed people to write it off if they had insurance (not unlike the tax break for mortgages). For some reason, people are allergic to any talk of the government raising taxes, so the bill's proponents chose to focus on a second justification: the government's power to regulate interstate commerce. Just because the Supreme Court decided interstate commerce did not authorize the ACA (in a 5-4 decision) that doesn't mean the bill's supporters were lying when they said they believed that was enough to allow them to pass the bill.

As for your point that liberals only support it because of their blind support for Obama, you're wrong about that too. TONS of liberals hate the ACA, and are not shy about saying so. They think it didn't go far enough, that it's a sell out to corporate interests- Romneycare by a different name, if you will.

 

[Cackalacky]

Lets not make any obfuscations here..... the Republicans got exactly what they wanted with the ACA.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Not just most covered though that is important (if 15% of your population doesn't have healthcare shockingly it is a shitty system) but infant mortality rates and costs of insurance. Since you are so caught up in it should be cheaper. The best way to get inexpensive healthcare is to go with a public plan.

Shockingly we spend significantly more per person on healthcare then any other country, for slightly better healthcare. The reason why is that our insurance companies (and some for profit hospitals) take a large cut of it. If you want cheaper healthcare we have to remove for profit companies.
List of countries by total health expenditure (PPP) per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As far as Cuba and Venezuela, there are plenty of countries with public healthcare with significantly better healthcare (Pretty much all of Europe, Canada, etc).

Business (besides insurance companies) should love it as they would know exactly what their costs will be for healthcare year to year as it will be a tax per employee. Very easy to plan for growth when you know the costs are while our current system has companies guessing from year to year.

Those who don't have healthcare: let's break it down. Take into consideration a) the young and healthy who choose not to purchase b) the very wealthy who can pay for whatever they want out of pocket and c) the 12-15 or so illegal immigrants who benefit from public services but aren't "covered." What kind of numbers are we looking at now?

Public option: Ummmm...Vermont. That is all. Six Reasons Why Vermont's Single-Payer Health Plan Was Doomed From The Start - Forbes Vermont's governor recently announced they're pulling the plug. Wonder why?

Cuba and Venezeula: Sure, other countries have better healthcare. You have failed to acknowledge WHY their systems suck. Still waiting.

Businesses: They should love it? Hahahaha...go tell that to any small business owner in your town. Tell me how it goes.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

It wasn't a lie, Gruber being an idiot notwithstanding. There were two alternative theories of what gave the Federal Govt. the power to enact the ACA. One was the government's power to tax. Viewed through that lens, they basically enacted a mass tax and then allowed people to write it off if they had insurance (not unlike the tax break for mortgages). For some reason, people are allergic to any talk of the government raising taxes, so the bill's proponents chose to focus on a second justification: the government's power to regulate interstate commerce. Just because the Supreme Court decided interstate commerce did not authorize the ACA (in a 5-4 decision) that doesn't mean the bill's supporters were lying when they said they believed that was enough to allow them to pass the bill.

As for your point that liberals only support it because of their blind support for Obama, you're wrong about that too. TONS of liberals hate the ACA, and are not shy about saying so. They think it didn't go far enough, that it's a sell out to corporate interests- Romneycare by a different name, if you will.

Don't you remember in 2008-2009 how hard Obama tried selling this to America? From Day 1 he said it wasn't a tax. Supreme Court upheld the decision based on power to tax, yes, but we were told it wasn't a tax. It is.

We were told it would lower health costs. It did not.

We were told you could keep your doctor. You could not, until the king re-wrote the law by himself.

 

[pkt77242]

Those who don't have healthcare: let's break it down. Take into consideration a) the young and healthy who choose not to purchase b) the very wealthy who can pay for whatever they want out of pocket and c) the 12-15 or so illegal immigrants who benefit from public services but aren't "covered." What kind of numbers are we looking at now?

Public option: Ummmm...Vermont. That is all. Six Reasons Why Vermont's Single-Payer Health Plan Was Doomed From The Start - Forbes Vermont's governor recently announced they're pulling the plug. Wonder why?

Cuba and Venezeula: Sure, other countries have better healthcare. You have failed to acknowledge WHY their systems suck. Still waiting.

Businesses: They should love it? Hahahaha...go tell that to any small business owner in your town. Tell me how it goes.

Actually since illegal immigrants in CA can be covered by the state that takes out a large portion of the illegal immigrant population. Nice try though. The young and healthy still need it they just don't realize it. The wealthiest people would be idiots to not carry some kind of insurance so I laugh at that. If you get cancer without health insurance it can easily eat up millions of dollars very quickly. If you think that the rich don't carry insurance then please pass whatever shit you are smoking.

Cuba doesn't have that bad of healthcare (not great but not horrific) and Venezuela is shit. How about the 50 or so countries that are doing it right? You still haven't answered about them.

Most people would agree that a single payer system needs to be done right and over a large enough population. Vermont has a small population, not the best idea to do a government option over a small population.

Just because small businesses would laugh doesn't mean that they are right. One of the biggest difficulties in scaling up a business is controlling employee costs and knowing what it will cost to provide health insurance is important. Sure Joe down the corner who owns a pool cleaning business doesn't care as he has two pool cleaners. But Mary down the way who is trying to run a tech start-up and hopes to make it big, better damn care or she is fucking stupid. The pool guy while he employees people is paying minimum wage and not paying benefits. Mary on the other hand is paying for benefits for her employees and probably paying massive amounts for them or she can't get the best employees because she doesn't offer benefits.