Politics

Politics

  • Obama

    Votes: 4 1.1%
  • Romney

    Votes: 172 48.9%
  • Other

    Votes: 46 13.1%
  • a:3:{i:1637;a:5:{s:12:"polloptionid";i:1637;s:6:"nodeid";s:7:"2882145";s:5:"title";s:5:"Obama";s:5:"

    Votes: 130 36.9%

  • Total voters
    352

Downinthebend

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He was supposed to just withdraw all of our troops the second he was sworn in?

What "innocent" Americans did he kill?

We should just let those planning to harm us do it, then retaliate? I think we should take them out before they kill our citizens.

I would expect that after 5? years he would have stopped the wars he claimed he didn't believe in. I also expect that he would have declare war in Libya in a way that he had previously claimed he would (with congressional approval).

Abdulrahman Al Awlaki, do you care about non-american innocents killed, or do their lives not matter as much?

No, of course we should kill people who are trying to kill us, but that doesn't mean it has to be done without due process. It shouldn't be within one branch of government's power to charge you, decide you are guilty, and then kill you.
 

GoIrish41

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#1- He did NOT win a Nobel prize. He won a Nobel Memorial Prize which was not established by Alfred Nobel but rather by a central bank in the 1960s.

#2- As Merton and Scholes clearly demonstrated in the 1990s, winning a Nobel Memorial Prize does not guarantee common sense. At least they lived outside of the theoretical world for a brief period.

#3- You haven't followed Paul "kick the can down the road" Krugman much if you have a positive opinion on him. Or maybe you were impressed by his endorsement of the trillion dollar coin!

I wont even get into his inability to have a civilized conversation with someone who doesn't agree with him without getting into personal insults.

There was not a Nobel Prize in Economics established by Alfred Nobel. In 1968 the award at question was established to recognize excellene in economics. For all intents and purposes it serves as the Nobel Prize for economics and everyone who has ever received the award is introduces as a Nobel Prize winner.

That you do not agree with him does not make him a "joke," just as someone not liking Obama does not mean that him winning the Nobel Prize for Peace is "a joke," as another poster has suggested. Krugman is obviously extremely intelligent, and it 2008 he was recognized for his contributions at the highest level in the field of economics. I'd venture to say that he knows more about economics than any of us, so you calling him a joke is a bit of a joke in itself. It's like me saying that Hall of Famer Dan Marino was a terrible player because I believe you can't be consideed great unless you won a Super Bowl. That would be a joke since I was never good enough to make the NFL.

I do not have a positive or a negative opinion of Krugman. I don't even disagree with your assessment that he can be a jerk. But I certainly wouldn't describe him as a joke. You seem to have followed his career some. You wouldn't do that if he was completely irrelevant.
 

GoIrish41

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I would expect that after 5? years he would have stopped the wars he claimed he didn't believe in. I also expect that he would have declare war in Libya in a way that he had previously claimed he would (with congressional approval).

Abdulrahman Al Awlaki, do you care about non-american innocents killed, or do their lives not matter as much?

No, of course we should kill people who are trying to kill us, but that doesn't mean it has to be done without due process. It shouldn't be within one branch of government's power to charge you, decide you are guilty, and then kill you.

You asked what he accomplished since he won the Nobel Prize. I answered. I didn't think we were debating about the drone policy. If we were, I'd be agreeing with you as I have said multiple times on this thread.
 
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I would expect that after 5? years he would have stopped the wars he claimed he didn't believe in. I also expect that he would have declare war in Libya in a way that he had previously claimed he would (with congressional approval).

Abdulrahman Al Awlaki, do you care about non-american innocents killed, or do their lives not matter as much?

No, of course we should kill people who are trying to kill us, but that doesn't mean it has to be done without due process. It shouldn't be within one branch of government's power to charge you, decide you are guilty, and then kill you.

We are out of Iraq for the most part and are going to be out of Afghanistan by the end of next year.

Was he saying the pledge of allegiance every morning, or was he trying to help his father kill innocent Americans?

If we let congress figure these things out (when there usually isn't much time to give), God help us.
 

chicago51

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Krugman’s a joke!

Paul Krugman is a smart man. He called the housing bubble before it happened. His word is not the gospel but his opinion is one that deserves respect.

Vast majority of economist do not support austerity.
 

RallySonsOfND

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You asked what he accomplished since he won the Nobel Prize. I answered. I didn't think we were debating about the drone policy. If we were, I'd be agreeing with you as I have said multiple times on this thread.

He didn't do $hit to win it. He hadn't been President for 1 year yet! If I remember correctly there were even Dems who questioned why he won it.

2009 Nobel Peace Prize - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

GoIrish41

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Downinthebend

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We are out of Iraq for the most part and are going to be out of Afghanistan by the end of next year.

Was he saying the pledge of allegiance every morning, or was he trying to help his father kill innocent Americans?

If we let congress figure these things out (when there usually isn't much time to give), God help us.

Oh, so we should give the executive branch the power to do anything? Why even have a constitution, or guaranteed rights?

From all indications, he didn't do anything. I'm not a big fan of the pledge of allegiance. Also, his father should have been charged of something previous to being executed, unless we're through out the precedents established by our law system since the Magna Carta.
 
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Oh, so we should give the executive branch the power to do anything? Why even have a constitution, or guaranteed rights?

From all indications, he didn't do anything. I'm not a big fan of the pledge of allegiance. Also, his father should have been charged of something previous to being executed, unless we're through out the precedents established by our law system since the Magna Carta.

It's not easy to just round up and arrest terrorists who want to kill innocent Americans.
 
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chicago51

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Unemployment benefits for one year equals $30 billion.

Corporate welfare for one year equals $205 billion.

How come the party of accountability is not outraged over welfare over with give aways for private jets fancy dinners and allowing corporations to write off the expenses for outsourcing?
 

Downinthebend

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It's not easy to just round up and arrest terrorists who want to kill innocent Americans.

Point being? There can be due process without people being arrested. The whole point is who gets to decide that a person is a terrorist. If that is the same person who charged you and will decide your punishment (without any dispute from you) and execute (secretly) you, we've got a problem.
 
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Point being? There can be due process without people being arrested. The whole point is who gets to decide that a person is a terrorist.

The president isn't sitting in the oval office flipping a coin in deciding who is a terrorist and who isn't. He is given intelligence on these matters. Anwar al-Aulaqi wasn't a terrorist?
I guess you think we should just let them go. We will go after them only after an attack takes place. I disagree.
 
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Downinthebend

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The president isn't sitting in the oval office flipping a coin in deciding who is a terrorist and who isn't. He is given intelligence on these matters. Anwar al-Aulaqi wasn't a terrorist?
I guess you think we should just let them go. We will go after them only after an attack takes place. I disagree.

Oh, so why even have a judicial process? When cops are planning to arrest people, they have suspicion of guilt, why not just throw them in prison and not give them a trial?

Was Anwar's son a terrorist? I don't think we should just let them go, we should convict them of a charge, let the judicial process work itself out, and then do what it says. Now there is one exception to this, if there is an imminent threat. IE, if someone is pointing a gun at you, a cop has a right kill you on the spot. Now what the White paper did, is it bastardized the definition of imminent to mean something it didn't.
 

DSully1995

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The president isn't sitting in the oval office flipping a coin in deciding who is a terrorist and who isn't. He is given intelligence on these matters. Anwar al-Aulaqi wasn't a terrorist?
I guess you think we should just let them go. We will go after them only after an attack takes place. I disagree.

I gotta go with outinthebend on this, cuz while you may fully trust the intelligence community, i do not. These guys given what they want will do terrible things, in order to "ensure the national security of the US in preserved". You look at what theyve done and planned, golf of tonkin and operation northwoods are two good examples.
 

NDFan4Life

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The Drone Question Obama Hasn’t Answered

By RYAN GOODMAN

Published: March 8, 2013

THE Senate confirmed John O. Brennan as director of the Central Intelligence Agency on Thursday after a nearly 13-hour filibuster by the libertarian senator Rand Paul, who before the vote received a somewhat odd letter from the attorney general.

“It has come to my attention that you have now asked an additional question: ‘Does the President have the authority to use a weaponized drone to kill an American not engaged in combat on American soil?’ ” the attorney general, Eric H. Holder Jr., wrote to Mr. Paul. “The answer to that question is no.”

The senator, whose filibuster had become a social-media sensation, elating Tea Party members, human-rights groups and pacifists alike, said he was “quite happy with the answer.” But Mr. Holder’s letter raises more questions than it answers — and, indeed, more important and more serious questions than the senator posed.

What, exactly, does the Obama administration mean by “engaged in combat”? The extraordinary secrecy of this White House makes the answer difficult to know. We have some clues, and they are troubling.

If you put together the pieces of publicly available information, it seems that the Obama administration, like the Bush administration before it, has acted with an overly broad definition of what it means to be engaged in combat. Back in 2004, the Pentagon released a list of the types of people it was holding at Guantánamo Bay as “enemy combatants” — a list that included people who were “involved in terrorist financing.”

American generals in Afghanistan said the laws of war “have been interpreted to allow” American forces to include “drug traffickers with proven links to the insurgency on a kill list,” according to a report released in 2009 by the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, then led by John Kerry, now the secretary of state.

The report went on to say that there were about 50 major traffickers “who contribute funds to the insurgency on the target list.” The Pentagon later said that it was “important to clarify that we are targeting terrorists with links to the drug trade, rather than targeting drug traffickers with links to terrorism.”

That statement, however, was not very clarifying, and did not seem to appease NATO allies who raised serious legal concerns about the American targeting program. The explanation soon gave way to more clues, and this time it was not simply a question of who had been placed on a list.

In a 2010 Fox News interview, under pressure to explain whether the Obama administration was any closer to capturing or killing ***** bin *****, Mr. Kerry’s predecessor, Hillary Rodham Clinton, said that “we have gotten closer because we have been able to kill a number of their trainers, their operational people, their financiers.”

That revelation — killing financiers — appears not to have been noticed very widely.

As I have written, sweeping financiers into the group of people who can be killed in armed conflict stretches the laws of war beyond recognition. But this is not the only stretch the Obama administration seems to have made. The administration still hasn’t disavowed its stance, disclosed last May in a New York Times article, that military-age males killed in a strike zone are counted as combatants absent explicit posthumous evidence proving otherwise.

Mr. Holder’s one-word answer — “no” — is not a step toward the greater transparency that President Obama pledged when he came into office, but has not delivered, in the realm of national security.

By declining to specify what it means to be “engaged in combat,” the letter does not foreclose the possible scenario — however hypothetical — of a military drone strike, against a United States citizen, on American soil. It also raises anew questions about the standards the administration has used in deciding to use drone strikes to kill Americans suspected of terrorist involvement overseas — notably Anwar al-Awlaki, the American-born cleric who was killed in a drone strike in Yemen in 2011.

Is there any reason to believe that military drones will soon be hovering over Manhattan, aiming to kill Americans believed to be involved in terrorist financing? No.

But is it well past time for the United States government to specify, precisely, its views on whom it thinks it can kill in the struggle against Al Qaeda and other terrorist forces? The answer is yes.

The Obama administration’s continued refusal to do so should alarm any American concerned about the constitutional right of our citizens — no matter what evil they may or may not be engaged in — to due process under the law. For those Americans, Mr. Holder’s seemingly simple but maddeningly vague letter offers no reassurance.

Ryan Goodman is a professor of law and co-chairman of the Center for Human Rights and Global Justice at New York University.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/09/o...obama-hasnt-answered.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
 

chicago51

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This article was sent to me from one of the many political activist I follow on twitter:

Cutting Spending Won't Fix Economy - Business Insider

Okay so you recall when the US economy crashed the European and UK economies crashed around the same time. Now the United States did the stimulus and the UK did austerity. Now the US may not be were it needs to be but it is in better shape than the UK.

Just throwing more of evidence out there for the haters.
 
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Polish Leppy 22

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yeah, what were they thinking giving him a Nobel Prize in Economics.

Guys like Krugman who spend their entire careers in academica writing their "theories", to me, carry very little weight in my opinion. None of his theories were implemented into a private sector business/ company, no one ever hired him to produce a good or service, or act as an "economic consultant" for their company. It's all theoretical, and that's why he won a Nobel Prize. I'm not saying he's 100% right or 100% wrong, could go either way depending on the topic, but let's take a step back and think about this.

All kidding aside, your local pizza shop owner knows more about economics than Paul Krugman because he lives it every day. He may not have the prestigious awards, a dissertation, and a bunch of letters behind his name, but he's got a hell of a lot more to show for his work and labor than "theory."
 

GoIrish41

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Guys like Krugman who spend their entire careers in academica writing their "theories", to me, carry very little weight in my opinion. None of his theories were implemented into a private sector business/ company, no one ever hired him to produce a good or service, or act as an "economic consultant" for their company. It's all theoretical, and that's why he won a Nobel Prize. I'm not saying he's 100% right or 100% wrong, could go either way depending on the topic, but let's take a step back and think about this.

All kidding aside, your local pizza shop owner knows more about economics than Paul Krugman because he lives it every day. He may not have the prestigious awards, a dissertation, and a bunch of letters behind his name, but he's got a hell of a lot more to show for his work and labor than "theory."

Guys like Krugman are sought out by print and television media outlets on a regular basis to provide context to discussions about economics. People care about what he thinks because his opinion matters. He didn't win a pie eating contest, he won the feankin Nobel Prize for Economics. The fact that he spends his career in academics studying economics makes him uniquely qualified to comment on the state of our economy. The fact that Tony at Pizza Town owns a business has limited real-world application to macroeconomics and I suspect if you asked him about it he would agree with me. Krugman's "theories" carry very little weight with you because you don't agree with what he is saying. If he promoted the genius of the Laffer curve, advocated for lowering everyone's tax rate to 1% and said that the economy would be humming along if only we would get rid of Medicare and Social Security, you would be singing his praises.
 
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