Politics

[chicago51]

If you want to talk about wasteful spending, take a look at George W. Bush. He took a record $300 billion surplus and turned it into a record trillion dollar deficit. He took more vacation time than any president in American history. He also spent a fortune on misdirected wars and huge tax cuts for the super wealthy. Also, his war mongering vice-president famously said that deficits don't matter.

Bush took a retreat to camp david like every other week. People blame Obama for the deficit. Let's see what cause the deficit Bush tax cuts Afghan war Iraq war and medicare part D all Bush agenda. If you want to say the Obama stimulus didn't work as well as hoped ok that's fair. Most of the debt was from Bush policy that is taking years for Obama to strategically undo.

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

Bush took a retreat to camp david like every other week. People blame Obama for the deficit. Let's see what cause the deficit Bush tax cuts Afghan war Iraq war and medicare part D all Bush agenda. If you want to say the Obama stimulus didn't work as well as hoped ok that's fair. Most of the debt was from Bush policy that is taking years for Obama to strategically undo.

Try Crawford Ranch for weeks, not Camp David for weekends.

Redirect Notice

 

[BobD]

I think both parties are responsible for hideous waste. They just argue about how to waste it.

 

[RallySonsOfND]

Seriously, spending is not because of 1 party. They are both responsible.

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

Seriously, spending is not because of 1 party. They are both responsible.

I agree. They only seem concerned when the other party is in the White House.

 

[chicago51]

I agree. They only seem concerned when the other party is in the White House.

Yes the republican house didn't care about the debt when bush 2 was in charge. Yes dems talk about the debt to get tax increases and military cuts. Reps talk about the debt to get safety net social security medicare and medicaid cuts. Both sides use the debt to pitch their issue but really don't care about the debt.

FYI we have to fix the economy to fix the deficit not the other way around. Wanna bring down the debt? Put people to work. We brought down our ww2 and korean war debt because of the mid 1950s economic boom. We had a surplus in the 90s because the economic boom.

 

[Rhode Irish]

I agree to a certain extent, but a President has a 4 year term limit. Obama is technically not president unless he is inaugurated again.

But spending millions to do it again? I'm with you on that. Then again, the Obamas fly to Hawaii on separate flights. Lots of wasteful spending that's been going on in the White House for years.

Yeah if only we limited the President's use of Air Force One all of our problems would be solved. Clearly that is what is driving the debt.

 

[Downinthebend]

If you want to talk about wasteful spending, take a look at George W. Bush. He took a record $300 billion surplus and turned it into a record trillion dollar deficit. He took more vacation time than any president in American history. He also spent a fortune on misdirected wars and huge tax cuts for the super wealthy. Also, his war mongering vice-president famously said that deficits don't matter.

I don't care where waste is, I want it cut.

 

[Buster Bluth]

If you want to talk about wasteful spending, take a look at George W. Bush. He took a record $300 billion surplus

There was never a surplus. Go ahead and look it up.

and turned it into a record trillion dollar deficit.

That's assuming more than a few things, among them: that the recession was somehow solely Bush's fault.

He took more vacation time than any president in American history.

If you think Presidents actually take vacations, you're an idiot.

He also spent a fortune on misdirected wars and huge tax cuts for the super wealthy.

Only the super wealthy got a tax cut? Did George Bush vote to go to war, or did Congress?

Also, his war mongering vice-president famously said that deficits don't matter.

A lot of people think that. Alexander Hamilton called a national debt a "blessing" because it opens up credit lines and expands economies.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Bush took a retreat to camp david like every other week. People blame Obama for the deficit. Let's see what cause the deficit Bush tax cuts Afghan war Iraq war and medicare part D all Bush agenda. If you want to say the Obama stimulus didn't work as well as hoped ok that's fair. Most of the debt was from Bush policy that is taking years for Obama to strategically undo.

You think the War on Terror was some initiative Bush conjured up? That's some revisionist history.

Also assuming that Obama is "strategically undoing" the deficit is pretty hilarious.

 

[chicago51]

There was never a surplus. Go ahead and look it up.



That's assuming more than a few things, among them: that the recession was somehow solely Bush's fault.



If you think Presidents actually take vacations, you're an idiot.



Only the super wealthy got a tax cut? Did George Bush vote to go to war, or did Congress?



A lot of people think that. Alexander Hamilton called a national debt a "blessing" because it opens up credit lines and expands economies.

You are right about the Hamilton point although debt needs be less than 16 trillion. If the US debt not be confused with deficit was ever $0 it would actually be a very bad thing.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Yes the republican house didn't care about the debt when bush 2 was in charge. Yes dems talk about the debt to get tax increases and military cuts. Reps talk about the debt to get safety net social security medicare and medicaid cuts. Both sides use the debt to pitch their issue but really don't care about the debt.

Plenty of Democratic politicians get votes and big dollars from the military-industrial complex.

FYI we have to fix the economy to fix the deficit not the other way around. Wanna bring down the debt? Put people to work. We brought down our ww2 and korean war debt because of the mid 1950s economic boom. We had a surplus in the 90s because the economic boom.

In the 1950s the rest of the world was basically destroyed and, simply put, the United States was on an unequal playing field because it had every advantage under the sun.

In the 1990s a great thing called the internet was invented and NAFTA was passed. Both were short-term gains that were squandered.

 

[Buster Bluth]

You are right about the Hamilton point although debt needs be less than 16 trillion. If the US debt not be confused with deficit was ever $0 it would actually be a very bad thing.

I am right about all of those points.

 

[chicago51]

You think the War on Terror was some initiative Bush conjured up? That's some revisionist history.

Also assuming that Obama is "strategically undoing" the deficit is pretty hilarious.

Since 2011 he has signed 2 trillion in deficit reduction. I do agree the Afghan war was the right thing not Iraq. Medicare part D was made with no offset in cost.

 

[BobD]

Yeah if only we limited the President's use of Air Force One all of our problems would be solved. Clearly that is what is driving the debt.

I think we take this attitude too much in the USA. We have no hope at ever tackling huge budget issues if we can't cut stupid sh!t.

 

[chicago51]

I am right about all of those points.

Agree to disagree. Although I appreciate the conversation as unlike some the crazies in the gun thread i do think you actually think stuff out.

 

[Buster Bluth]

I don't care where waste is, I want it cut.

You'd have a tough time describing what "waste" is. It's not easy, and impossibly difficult to pass.

Do we need a postal service, when private companies can deliver mail for a fraction of the cost?

Do we need a military that is as big as the rest of the world combined?

Do we need to give subsidies to the biggest and richest farmers in the world to create literally poison for our populace?

The list is endless and complicated. Every subsidy/grant/tax break creates jobs (i.e. helps the economy) and those people vote for their local representatives.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Agree to disagree. Although I appreciate the conversation as unlike some the crazies in the gun thread i do think you actually think stuff out.

Where am I wrong? Be specific.

 

[Buster Bluth]

I think we take this attitude too much in the USA. We have no hope at ever tackling huge budget issues if we can't cut stupid sh!t.

One man's "stupid ****" is another man's "vital job-creation."

 

[chicago51]

I think we take this attitude too much in the USA. We have no hope at ever tackling huge budget issues if we can't cut stupid sh!t.

We could try using math. If what you take in is less than what you spend you have a couple options: Spend less or bring in more $.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Since 2011 he has signed 2 trillion in deficit reduction.

Highly debatable. It's a CBO projection (read: created numbers out of thin air), and it's not like even if the CBO was correct (doubtful), that he reduced the deficit, he stopped the growth by $200B/yr. Not a huge number.

Call me when the military gets slashed by 30%, minimum.

 

[Downinthebend]

You'd have a tough time describing what "waste" is. It's not easy, and impossibly difficult to pass.

Do we need a postal service, when private companies can deliver mail for a fraction of the cost?

Do we need a military that is as big as the rest of the world combined?

Do we need to give subsidies to the biggest and richest farmers in the world to create literally poison for our populace?

The list is endless and complicated. Every subsidy/grant/tax break creates jobs (i.e. helps the economy) and those people vote for their local representatives.

My personal definition of "waste" is government spending that is unconstitutional, or misused, or unneeded.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Cool. When you get a consensus on what spending is unconstitutional, misused or unneeded, please let the rest of us know so we can eliminate this debt.

 

[RallySonsOfND]

We do not have a taxation problem, we have a spending problem.


Subsidies skew market prices, and huge government debt SHOULD skew interest rates (But ours are being held artificially low and if you think that comes without consequences...)

 

[chicago51]

Highly debatable. It's a CBO projection (read: created numbers out of thin air), and it's not like even if the CBO was correct (doubtful), that he reduced the deficit, he stopped the growth by $200B/yr. Not a huge number.

Call me when the military gets slashed by 30%, minimum.

Now slashing military I'm with you 100 percent. We are going to be taking an advise and train role in Afghanistan starting this spring. If we don't see major military cuts I'll be mad at Obama too.

We need raise the fica tax income limit cap to make SS solvent long term and reform our health care cost problem to bring down the cost of medicare and trim non essential benefits.
Some kind of trade reform particularly with China to fix our 1 billion dollar a day trade deficit would nice. Be nice we can get home made products on a level playing field.

 

[Buster Bluth]

We do not have a taxation problem, we have a spending problem.

I am under the impression that revenue as a percentage of GPD is quite low. It seems we have a spending and a taxing problem. Burning the candle at both ends, I suppose.

Subsidies skew market prices, and huge government debt SHOULD skew interest rates (But ours are being held artificially low and if you think that comes without consequences...)

All government spending is a subsidy. I would be that you don't consider it a subsidy when the government expands the highway by your house to the tune of nine figures, but perhaps complain when 10mil is spent on renovating a risky building downtown....most Americans don't realize that "economic growth" happens in the suburbs because of a ton of government spending. What someone might call an expressway I call a waste of money, and what someone might say "should be left to insane developers," I might call "leveling the playing field."

Again, one man's "waste" is another man's "job creation."

 

[Buster Bluth]

My personal definition of "waste" is government spending that is unconstitutional, or misused, or unneeded.

By your own definitions of constitutional, all military and postal service spending are okay.

 

[chicago51]

We do not have a taxation problem, we have a spending problem.


Subsidies skew market prices, and huge government debt SHOULD skew interest rates (But ours are being held artificially low and if you think that comes without consequences...)

What cuts you wanna make social security, medicare, medicaid. Screw the poor people? Look I'm not in favor of free handouts in fact I wish people on unemployment had to do community service to get unemployment benefits.

Our domestic non elderly spending is lower as a percentage of GDP than it has been in a generation. The Koch brothers want you to think spending is the problem.

 

[chicago51]

What is bad about the recent tax cliff deal is although top income tax rate went up to almost 40 percent. The top end capital gains tax only went up from 15 to 20 percent. Most rich earn a good portion of their income from their investments or capital gains so they are still the winners of the deal.

 

[Downinthebend]

Cool. When you get a consensus on what spending is unconstitutional, misused or unneeded, please let the rest of us know so we can eliminate this debt.

Will do. The only thing each individual can do is form their own opinions of important issues and work to accomplish it.

By your own definitions of constitutional, all military and postal service spending are okay.

?