Penn St over scUM

lattedatte

New member
Messages
1,100
Reaction score
18
lattedatte seems to be buying into the Lou Holtz scenerio scheming of somehow hoping that all the undefeated teams lose one game so Nd can have a shot at the title game. I wonder what he was saying about PSU before they played Nd. Seriously, dream on, it's never happened before. I'm not saying we'll be in the championship game, but I am 99% sure Nd won't be there, and if they are, it's a crying shame.

Our camp is divided on this game, much the same way you guys are. Some think we'll just roll because PSU is an inexperienced team, but I tend to agree with those who worry.

First, the game is at Happy Valley. They are very angry about what happened last year, so the atmosphere will be wild. PSU's has a good run defense and a horrific (and I mean awful) secondary. But I fear that if they stop the run, Henne will be forced to make tough throws that kept Troy Smith out of balance (the PSU-OSU game this year was close for 3.5 quarters). The key will be Hart. Can the OL give him room to establish the running game. If so, easy victory. If not, I can see an upset.

Another important key is stopping PSU's running game. Now, though I can see us winning the game if our run game is not established, there is no way PSU can win without establishing Hunt. If Morelli can't playaction, he will be sacked or he will throw picks. He's just not in sync with his excellent recievers now, and that rarely changes in a week (It didn't change for Henne for the entire 2005 season). It didn't even happen against Minnesota, a game that was given to them by the refs on a phantom "pass interference" call that would have ended the game for Minnesota. In every game Morelli has played, he seems to be slow in his decisionmaking, oftentimes not reading defenses correctly or consistenly. He throws a great deep ball one moment, and then throw a horrible ball right into the defenders hands. That's why he's so vulnerable to picks. These symptions make it even more unlikely that he will simply emerge. But they will have to gamble anyways. Otherwise they lose the game.

As much as I like Manningham's big play ability, he's not the HART of this offense. It's no surprise that our success often hinges on his health. When we was out last year, we lost. When he was healthy, he won. We are also benefiting from a Henne that has really come alive this year, performing very well in pressure situations. Manningham is not a mature reciever yet. You see the big plays on tv, but you don't see the drops or the fact that he sometimes runs bad routes (this was not the case against Nd, but in almost every game afterwards you saw some of these weakness). Obviously he will be missed, but it's not the end of the world.

It will be interesting to see which one of our recievers matches up with Justin King. If they put him on Arrington, then Breaston will have to step up (as a senior native of PA who's underachieved at the WR postion, he'll need to be effective). I also expect the TE to be open all the time. Hart can roam the backfield and get passes, too (He is very good in that area)

Henne has the additional incentive of coming back to his home state and the team he vanquished. Apparently, Paterno pushed extremely hard for Henne, and Henne apparently promised Paterno that he would commit to PSU, only to change his mind last minute. That resulted in PSU recruiting Anthony Morelli. His performance will also matter.

I'm pretty confident Hart can run against the PSU defense. PSU's rush defense is good up the middle but is weak on the sides. This was exploited by OSU, who repeatedly sent Pittman to the sidelines, resulting in good yardage. But Hart can't do this alone. Smith was uncharacteristically off during the PSU game, and Henne will have to make some throws in order for us to win the game. He has done this before, and I believe he is motivated. The key is getting the crowd out of the game immediately.

VV, don't get me wrong as a ND fan I always have the "how can my team make the NC game." But I really believe this is a horrendous spot for you guys mostly for all the reasons you and I have mentioned above. Manningham or no manningham. Maybe you can help me with my question above, "When was the last time Henne won a big game on the road that was close in the 4th q?" I really can't remember(honestly no sarcasm, just good football talk).
 

VictorsValiant

I LOVE NOTRE DAME
Messages
277
Reaction score
10
Thankfully, we have yet to play a close game where the game was on the line in the 4th quarter. Hopefully, it won't come down to that.

With all do respect, though, your question is pretty loaded. First, you assume the game might be close in the 4th quarter. Even if it is, Henne won't have to win the game.

Our offense is not built around Henne. He's merely a part, not the engine. There are a lot of simple and easy plays that he'll make under any circumstance that we can go to. It's not like the Irish offense where virtually everything is built around Brady Quinn. In fact, the offensive play calls are still conservative even as we speak (very few up the middle plays, very few rollouts, ie throws that can result in ints if thrown improperly)

The OL plays the most significant role because they define our running game. Everyone is saying "oh, without Manningham, all PSU has to do is load the line." That's not a very accurate picture. PSU has tried to do this before. That was their game plan last year (and with good reason because Henne was horrible last year). It didn't work for them last year because you can counter by lining up 9 guys in your line. So there's more to it than simply trying to stop the run. Also, keep in mind that PSU has a questionable secondary. If they crowd the line, there are big play opportunities. Last year, for example, I saw some wide open recievers on the field where there wasn't a defender that was even close. Henne won't miss those this year, the way he's playing.

I think you also have to consider Henne's maturity this year. His balls are much more accurate and he's playing with CONFIDENCE. He's completely different from last year. Oftentimes, his misses this season are more a result of a reciever not running the correct route or a ball that was dropped (the drops are really irritating).

On the flip side, there's Morelli. I mean, what makes you think he'll come through? They need him to come through because our run defense will be strong (best athletes in the country at the LB position). He choked against Nd, and he completely botched a winnable game for PSU at OSU by throwing poor passes and of course, the two late picks. Hunt has played very well this year, so that makes Morelli's subpar performances even more suspicious, given that he has playaction possiblities.

I agree the game could be close in the 4th quarter, but if we lose, it'll probably because the offense as a UNIT collapses due to the hostile environment or other factors.
 

lattedatte

New member
Messages
1,100
Reaction score
18
Thankfully, we have yet to play a close game where the game was on the line in the 4th quarter. Hopefully, it won't come down to that.

With all do respect, though, your question is pretty loaded. First, you assume the game might be close in the 4th quarter. Even if it is, Henne won't have to win the game.

Our offense is not built around Henne. He's merely a part, not the engine. There are a lot of simple and easy plays that he'll make under any circumstance that we can go to. It's not like the Irish offense where virtually everything is built around Brady Quinn. In fact, the offensive play calls are still conservative even as we speak (very few up the middle plays, very few rollouts, ie throws that can result in ints if thrown improperly)

The OL plays the most significant role because they define our running game. Everyone is saying "oh, without Manningham, all PSU has to do is load the line." That's not a very accurate picture. PSU has tried to do this before. That was their game plan last year (and with good reason because Henne was horrible last year). It didn't work for them last year because you can counter by lining up 9 guys in your line. So there's more to it than simply trying to stop the run. Also, keep in mind that PSU has a questionable secondary. If they crowd the line, there are big play opportunities. Last year, for example, I saw some wide open recievers on the field where there wasn't a defender that was even close. Henne won't miss those this year, the way he's playing.

I think you also have to consider Henne's maturity this year. His balls are much more accurate and he's playing with CONFIDENCE. He's completely different from last year. Oftentimes, his misses this season are more a result of a reciever not running the correct route or a ball that was dropped (the drops are really irritating).

On the flip side, there's Morelli. I mean, what makes you think he'll come through? They need him to come through because our run defense will be strong (best athletes in the country at the LB position). He choked against Nd, and he completely botched a winnable game for PSU at OSU by throwing poor passes and of course, the two late picks. Hunt has played very well this year, so that makes Morelli's subpar performances even more suspicious, given that he has playaction possiblities.

I agree the game could be close in the 4th quarter, but if we lose, it'll probably because the offense as a UNIT collapses due to the hostile environment or other factors.

I couldn't be more confident this game will still be in the balance come the fourth quarter(barring anything crazy like spec. team TD's).

You can't go through an entire season and not have to win a tight one on the road. And why is PSU secondary questionable, they faired pretty well against a the heisman trophy leading QB? Justin King is a shut down stud corner.

Morelli - obviously this is this big question. I like the way he played at Minny. His first two big road games as a starter was at ND and at the shoe? Not too many qb's could perform well given those circumstances. with the home crowd at his back i look for him to be the better qb on the field saturday. but I do admit this one is the stretch.

Good luck tomorrow VV.
 
Messages
1,276
Reaction score
32
Not good?

How so? Manningham is a great deep threat...but to say they are "not good" is a REAL stretch.

They have many weapons, he is the #1 receiver, but the others are pretty good too.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/teamstats?teamId=130

Mike Hart is going to run hard against Penn State. If we had a good O-Line, Walker might have gotten some yards against them. However, Hart is going to rush for a century easy...


It is a stretch. But undeniably, his presence does a lot to open up the offense. Think Breaston can do that?
 

NDgettysburg

Hockey Forum Moderator
Messages
1,336
Reaction score
45
So far it looks like PSU has found their defense....

Hey OnE, that's Dan Breen in your sig, ain't it? Err, I mean Tom Barry :)
 

maison bleu

Banned
Messages
701
Reaction score
50
No. so far it looka like boys against men. "M"en as in "Michigan"

The Joe Pas are down to their third string QB.

Tomorrow, the Blue will be ranked #2.
 

NDgettysburg

Hockey Forum Moderator
Messages
1,336
Reaction score
45
No. so far it looka like boys against men. "M"en as in "Michigan"
I dunno.....neither Henne or Hart had a huge day, really. Not to say they didn't have good days, but I wouldn't call it dominating. How did they win by only a TD? Yeah, PSU scored late but even at that, I would expect a bigger whooping than 14 points.

Manningham injury?
"Tough" conference game?
On the road?
 
N

notdam4

Guest
Don't take this post the wrong way because I definitely did not read the gigantic posts from earlier in this thread...I am just responding to the previous post. Michigan dominated this game from beginning to end as I expected them to. Like my friend said, "Manningham injury, 'tough' confrence game, on the road" all of these are correct. This was a typical Big 10 matchup that entertained most folks. All three of these factored in to the game and despite these, Michigan came out the victors. Michigan is a great team and everything is bouncing their way this year and I believe this only makes us look better. This is evidenced by when Davie and Herbstreit talked about how the events of the weekend made the Irish look a lot better. By the way, I am very happy that the Trojans won the game because I definitely want them to be undefeated when we play them so they have ZERO excuses.
 

maison bleu

Banned
Messages
701
Reaction score
50
Manningham injury?
"Tough" conference game?
On the road?

All of the above. BTW, my "men against boys" crack was directed at the mismatch between M's D-Line vs PSU's O-line. 7 sacks, -12 yds net on the ground. 2 QB KOs.

Penn State played pretty well other than that. Their run D was really good. One meaningless TO, a fumble on special teams. No INTs even though they had second and third string QBs in the game.

Are they #3 in the Big Ten? I think they'll have a tough time with Wisconsin.
 

jiggafini19

The Pope
Messages
7,370
Reaction score
58
That Wolverweasel defense is really really good. Really really good.

The date in Columbus is going to be a whopper of a game.
 

tommy

Punctuation Nazi
Messages
2,393
Reaction score
47
the way ohio state has looked i wouldnt be shocked if scUM beat them
 
G

Guest

Guest
lattedatte seems to be buying into the Lou Holtz scenerio scheming of somehow hoping that all the undefeated teams lose one game so Nd can have a shot at the title game. I wonder what he was saying about PSU before they played Nd. Seriously, dream on, it's never happened before. I'm not saying we'll be in the championship game, but I am 99% sure Nd won't be there, and if they are, it's a crying shame.
.

Well a one loss team can jumb any other one loss team on a given week, much like Auburn jumbed us this week, and considering we may beat the second ranked team in the country at the end of the year I could see us passing any one loss team in the country. I think we'd definitely pass a one loss Texas team in the polls because they haven't beat anyone. But no doubt our chances are slim.

On a sidenote congrats with your Michigan team, they look the the second best team in the country.
 

jiggafini19

The Pope
Messages
7,370
Reaction score
58
They are pretty damn good. I seriously see UM beating OSU... I give it a 70% chance.

Nah. tOSU's D is good too.

Troy Smith over Chad Henne is the equalizer.

Lots of football left to be played before it goes down. Either one could blow up against one of those lesser opponents. If yesterday taught us anything, you've gotta play the games (Vandy and IU).
 

BGIF

Varsity Club
Messages
43,946
Reaction score
2,922
Nah. tOSU's D is good too.

Troy Smith over Chad Henne is the equalizer.

Lots of football left to be played before it goes down. Either one could blow up against one of those lesser opponents. If yesterday taught us anything, you've gotta play the games (Vandy and IU).

And then there's the Bush/Peterson factor. Key injuries happen and not always in big games.
 

jiggafini19

The Pope
Messages
7,370
Reaction score
58
Yep.

Assuming both teams are at full strength when they play, I like Ohio State.

At Ann Arbor or a neutral field, maybe not. But the game is in Columbus.
 
Top