Notre Dame vs. Michigan all time better program

[Rambler09]

Hey guys, I've seen the argument made that Notre Dame is the better program all time (or at least that it's hard to say), but it would be great to have it condensed in one place. I live in Ann Arbor and am tired of hearing about how incredibly superior Michigan is. I know that we have an argument, but I don't have time to research it right now. I do know that we have more consensus titles and more Heismans... but I also know that some of you are capable of reciting a more effective argument cold. Dates and specifics appreciated. I want ammunition the next time one of my Michigan friends starts running his mouth.

 

[Cali_domer]

Michigan has 1/2 Championship since 1948. So if we are talking Championship football than that is a pretty easy answer.

 

[phork]

I think half their wins came before 1940....

 

[stlnd01]

Also, their fight song sucks.

 

[Irish4Life09]

Pure Michigan: U of M Football - YouTube (someone embed for me)

This doesn't help their cause.lol.

 

[returnofthemack]

I don't know how anybody can say Michigan is superior all-time. If they were talking about the last decade or so, obviously, they'd be right. But all-time, yes, they have the most wins, but it helped that there was pretty much nobody else playing for the first couple decades. Also, if they ever say something really stupid such as: "We have 11 National Championships", ask them how many they have since World War II ended. The answer is 3 and only 1 shared championship since 1948.

 

[peoriairish]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/01Kz6Rw99Kk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[IrishAlum1997]

Don't think swinging our c*cks makes a whole lot of sense until we show up on the higher end of that scoreboard a couple of years in a row.

Pure Michigan still funny, though.

 

[no.1IrishFan]

Don't think swinging our c*cks makes a whole lot of sense until we show up on the higher end of that scoreboard a couple of years in a row.

Pure Michigan still funny, though.

He wasn't asking about how we've faired lately, he said all-time.

All-time and all things considered, we have been more successful. Like others have said, the VAST majority of Michigans success came in the late 1890's until the mid to late 1940's. Back when Michigan was considered the champions of the "west", theye were one of only a few powerhouses. They haven't done much since college football really took off. One shared title in 64 years, hail to the victors.

 

[phork]

He wasn't asking about how we've faired lately, he said all-time.

All-time and all things considered, we have been more successful. Like others have said, the VAST majority of Michigans success came in the late 1890's until the mid to late 1940's. Back when Michigan was considered the champions of the "west", theye were one of only a few powerhouses. They haven't done much since college football really took off. One shared title in 64 years, hail to the victors.

In the modern era of football (1960-) the series is tied 14-14. So these last 3 years have actually been catchup for them.

 

[NDetroit Fan]

Ramber, I feel your pain. I can't stand living amongst all the scUM fans WalMart or otherwise. What I do get a great deal of satisfaction from is the fact that their biggest criticism of ND and the Irish fan base (that we are all living in the past) is just as applicable to them.

The love to cling to their "winningiest team ever" claim and get excited about the Big (OUT) House and they tend to forget that they live in the past more than any other fan base.

By nearly every measure, ND has the historically better program. Here are some data points to back you up.

Wins- If you toss out wins pre 1900 (that's 98 for scUM vs only 31 for ND) ND has a better overall record and more wins. ND 822- 284, scUM 804-281

National champs- since 1949, there is no contest ND 5 scUM .5

Individual Honors- again no contest ND 7 Hesimans scUM 3
Additonal individual awards (Maxwell, Outland, etc) ND 22, scUM 16
College football HOF, ND 49, scUM 38

Bowl wins is the only category where scUM has an advantage. Since 1970 (when ND resumed bowl competition) scUM has a slight edge with 16 wins over ND's 14.

I know this is not the end all, but, hopefully it give you some ammo to shut up the WalMart Wolverines.

 

[phork]

Ramber, I feel your pain. I can't stand living amongst all the scUM fans WalMart or otherwise. What I do get a great deal of satisfaction from is the fact that their biggest criticism of ND and the Irish fan base (that we are all living in the past) is just as applicable to them.

The love to cling to their "winningiest team ever" claim and get excited about the Big (OUT) House and they tend to forget that they live in the past more than any other fan base.

By nearly every measure, ND has the historically better program. Here are some data points to back you up.

Wins- If you toss out wins pre 1900 (that's 98 for scUM vs only 31 for ND) ND has a better overall record and more wins. ND 822- 284, scUM 804-281

National champs- since 1949, there is no contest ND 5 scUM .5

Individual Honors- again no contest ND 7 Hesimans scUM 3
Additonal individual awards (Maxwell, Outland, etc) ND 22, scUM 16
College football HOF, ND 49, scUM 38

Bowl wins is the only category where scUM has an advantage. Since 1970 (when ND resumed bowl competition) scUM has a slight edge with 16 wins over ND's 14.

I know this is not the end all, but, hopefully it give you some ammo to shut up the WalMart Wolverines.

Wonder what the records are post 1960.

 

[IrishAlum1997]

He wasn't asking about how we've faired lately, he said all-time.

All-time and all things considered, we have been more successful. Like others have said, the VAST majority of Michigans success came in the late 1890's until the mid to late 1940's. Back when Michigan was considered the champions of the "west", theye were one of only a few powerhouses. They haven't done much since college football really took off. One shared title in 64 years, hail to the victors.

My point is simply that we look like arrogant pricks discussing who's program is better after losing 3 straight years to those lucky bastards. Like our egos need massaging. I understand we're all looking for things to discuss in the off season. Just trying to provide a balanced perspective.

No worries.

 

[no.1IrishFan]

My point is simply that we look like arrogant pricks discussing who's program is better after losing 3 straight years to those lucky bastards. Like our egos need massaging. I understand we're all looking for things to discuss in the off season. Just trying to provide a balanced perspective.

No worries.

I totally feel you, and I was wasn't trying to sound like a jerk at all, I just feel like the last 3 years are not a good comparison of how the overall success of the two programs matchup. However, wolverine fans tend to have a very short memory.

Good to hear from you though, seems like I haven't seen you around as much lately. Take care my man.