ND Tuition Hacks Me Off

LOVEMYIRISH

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34Squire34 said:
The libraries are all filled with the same books and the teachers teach roughly the same curriculim.

....

Speaking from experience, I was accepted to ND but chose go to a small liberal arts school to save myself and my parents money (as well as try to play sports-definately not a DI athlete here). At the time I thought that maybe I was making a huge mistake. Then when it came time to go to law school, I decided to go to the best school available and soak up the loans. As a budding, young man in the legal field, I will tell you this: the occupation/life decisions I make are affected way more by my debt load, than by where I went to school.

Actually, Libraries, books, curriculum, and professors vary TREMENDOUSLY.

Most of my family (and my wife's family) are deeply involved in academia. The difference between an average or sub-average school and a great school is pretty big.

Now, you can easily have someone go to a great school and learn nothing...but that is their fault. You can also have someone go to a sub-par school and learn a lot...but that is due to them, not the school.

I too chose a small liberal arts school for my UNDERGRADUATE education. In many ways it was superior to ND. In fact, when I applied to ND the head of the MBA program took my GPA and bumped it up by .5 to account for my school.

Not all schools are created equal.

"The elites still lead in producing undergraduates who go on for doctorates (Caltech had the highest percentage during the 1990s), but Earlham, Grinnell, Kalamazoo, Kenyon, Knox, Lawrence, Macalester, Oberlin, and Wooster do better on this scale than many higher-status schools. In the 1990s little Earlham, with just 1,200 students, produced a higher percentage of graduates who have since received doctorates than did Brown, Dartmouth, Duke, Northwestern, Penn, or Vassar"

While I love ND, I am fully convinced that the undergraduate education I received was, without question, equal to or greater than Notre Dame.
 
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DeeRock

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Quit your belly-aching, the minority has had a heck of a time just getting a "fair shake"- so lets not even go there...Stick with the relevance of what the man is speaking about- nuff' said!
 

NDgettysburg

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guff said:
Catholic charity, $42,000 per pupil? I’m officially hacked off.
The numbers are what they are, no arguing that but how did you ever come to the conclusion that the school exists as a charitable organization?
 

guff

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It doesn't exist as a charitable organization but it shouldn't charge $20,000 more than other similar Catholic universities, St John's, Boston College, Georgetown etc. These school provide a high quality education for around $23,000. I don't expect ND to give it's education away but I do expect it to make it's education financial viable for the large percentage of the population.

But instead of being price competitive with other Catholic schools, ND is price competitive with Ivy League schools. Schools whose values are defined by secular humanism.

So what expense does ND have that justifies that huge difference in tuition?
 

LOVEMYIRISH

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guff said:
It doesn't exist as a charitable organization but it shouldn't charge $20,000 more than other similar Catholic universities, St John's, Boston College, Georgetown etc. These school provide a high quality education for around $23,000. I don't expect ND to give it's education away but I do expect it to make it's education financial viable for the large percentage of the population.

But instead of being price competitive with other Catholic schools, ND is price competitive with Ivy League schools. Schools whose values are defined by secular humanism.

So what expense does ND have that justifies that huge difference in tuition?

What are you talking about? Let's get some facts straight before you start going off on this topic...

GEORGETOWN
Tuition and fees: $32,199
Room/board: $10,739

BOSTON COLLEGE
Tuition and fees: $31,438
Room/board: $10,845

ST.JOHN'S (NOT a top school...it ranks in the 3rd tier)
Tuition and fees: $23,370
Room/board: $11,000

And what about Our Mother?

NOTRE DAME
Tuition and fees: $31,542
Room/board: $8,010

Looks to me like ND...the BEST of the 4 schools is not as expensive as the other Top ones.

To compare St John's is unfair given that they are nowhere near as good.
 

guff

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http://financialaid.nd.edu/undergraduate/gen_info/cost_of_attendance.shtml - about $42,000 not including fees.

My fault on the Georgetown and BC. I didn't add the room and board on that one. If you saw my scribble pad of tuition research you would see how I made the mistake. And there tuition equally hacks me off but I don't necessarily want to send my kids there. So if I can't afford those I don't care.

My point to this whole thread is that a Catholic higher education shouldn't be unaffordable to a large portion of the Americans - $40,000+ isn't affordable to most. And incurring $100,000+ in debt doesn't make college affordable. There are Catholic schools out there whose tuition is much lower but the quality of the education isn't.

A university doesn't have to be among the most expensive to be among the best. And can't I just be hacked off that I won't be sending my kids to ND.
 

LOVEMYIRISH

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guff said:
http://financialaid.nd.edu/undergraduate/gen_info/cost_of_attendance.shtml - about $42,000 not including fees.

My fault on the Georgetown and BC. I didn't add the room and board on that one. If you saw my scribble pad of tuition research you would see how I made the mistake. And there tuition equally hacks me off but I don't necessarily want to send my kids there. So if I can't afford those I don't care.

No worries...I kinda figured.

My point to this whole thread is that a Catholic higher education shouldn't be unaffordable to a large portion of the Americans - $40,000+ isn't affordable to most. And incurring $100,000+ in debt doesn't make college affordable. There are Catholic schools out there whose tuition is much lower but the quality of the education isn't.

A university doesn't have to be among the most expensive to be among the best.

It just costs a lot to be one of the best. No university is exempt. It just costs that much to be that good.

It sucks, but it's true.

I disagree on one point though... There are no other Catholic schools that are nearly as good with lesser tuition.
 

grantland

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Óglaigh_na_hÉireann said:
Well, for them to survive as Catholic schools they have to be expensive. There probably isn't a nationally accredited Catholic school that isn't. They'll never have the resources that public schools are given. But yes, I agree, ND is too expensive.

That's the main reason why I'm keeping my distance from Catholic schools and it's the reason why I gave up on Notre Dame shortly after my freshman year in high school began.

The only Catholic schools I'm considering are Depaul and the Catholic University of America.. both are very expensive and I'll probably only be allowed to go to either if they give me scholarship money.

For the most part, though, I'm looking at cheap southern schools. I figure you can get a great education anywhere; there are plenty of people who have gotten more out of their 4 years at Auburn, Ole Miss, Alabama and Tennessee than a Notre Dame student that decided not to work hard there. (if Auburn accepts, I'll probably end up there, even if Steve Spurrier has something to say about it)

Part of me thinks the Notre Dame dream isn't meant to be lived, anyway.



If you are thinking Southern SEC type schools, then, before you decide, please visit Athens, GA on a football saturday
 

LOVEMYIRISH

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Óglaigh_na_hÉireann said:
For the most part, though, I'm looking at cheap southern schools. I figure you can get a great education anywhere; there are plenty of people who have gotten more out of their 4 years at Auburn, Ole Miss, Alabama and Tennessee than a Notre Dame student that decided not to work hard there.

Your best value can be found in the BigTen schools. Namely:
University of Wisconsin
University of Iowa
Indiana University
University of Minnesota

These three schools are world class and are hands down better than any of the schools you mentioned above. In fact, these schools are in many cases are INTERNATIONALLY recognized.

My advice...look to the midwest and northeast for Public Universities... They are amongst the best in the country. The south simply does not compare. (there are wonderful PRIVATE schools down there, but not public)
 

NDgettysburg

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guff said:
It doesn't exist as a charitable organization but it shouldn't charge $20,000 more than other similar Catholic universities, St John's, Boston College, Georgetown etc. These school provide a high quality education for around $23,000. I don't expect ND to give it's education away but I do expect it to make it's education financial viable for the large percentage of the population.
No problem with your logic (even with the newly posted info about the true costs of the other schools you compared ND to), but you should lay of the "Catholic charity" knock....has nothing to do wit h the cost of running the school.

I pay about 5 grand per year to send my 2 kids to Catholic school instead of the "free" public school (which I subsidize through taxes). How is that any different?
 
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TexasDomer

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Has anyone spoken with Dan Saracino, the admissions director at Notre Dame? I'm willing to bet that they have very valid explanations here.

Notre Dame isn't a "for profit" institution. Its cost is a function of the fact that it has an undergraduate university and graduate level Law School, Engineering School, Business School, College of Science, and so forth. It has a wider curriculum than BC, for example. It is more in line with Georgetown, which is priced similarly.

The other issue is that Notre Dame seeks to hire the best faculty, to sit in chairs where their research and teaching have national and international impact. To hire the best, you have to compete on salary with the Ivies, the Big Ten, and others, without the ability for the state to help pick up the tab via tax revenues.

Finally, the physical plant of Notre Dame is quite a bit larger than BC, which is an urban college. ND is a city unto itself, with its own power plant, more residential housing, more buildings, and thus higher utilities, support and service staff, and so forth.

Don't get me wrong; I wish it were cheaper. I paid Uncle Sam 4 years of my life in Army green for the privilege of being a student at Notre Dame, when I could have attended Dayton or St. Joe's for a lot less. But I would have regretted it for the rest of my life.

But Notre Dame does pledge to use its TV revenues and other sources to help meet 100% of demonstrated need on the part of students who are accepted. College loans are some of the "easiest" to pay off. Long terms, low rates, the ability to refinance as rates are lower, and so forth.

If cost is the only issue, then look at some of the major Big Tens and others. If the combination of a top-notch undergraduate education, a well-extended alumni network, a strong Catholic heritage, a sense of residential community, high placement in graduate studies, a commitment to community service, and a balance of athletic and academic excellence are important, then there are few, if any, universities that measure up to Notre Dame.
 
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Your best value can be found in the BigTen schools. Namely:
University of Wisconsin
University of Iowa
Indiana University
University of Minnesota

I've visited both Indiana University and Wisconsin and though the campuses are nice, I'm not particularly interested in either. The only thing that stands out to me about Indiana is its business school.

I think that if I go to one of the schools I mentioned and I do well there, I'll be fine. If I need to, I can always go to graduate school elsewhere.
 

LOVEMYIRISH

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Óglaigh_na_hÉireann said:
I've visited both Indiana University and Wisconsin and though the campuses are nice, I'm not particularly interested in either. The only thing that stands out to me about Indiana is its business school.

I think that if I go to one of the schools I mentioned and I do well there, I'll be fine. If I need to, I can always go to graduate school elsewhere.

No doubt if you are motivated you can do just fine.

My only push for the ones I mentioned is that they will give you a better value for your money...in terms of faculty, research opportunities, curriculum, etc... They will give you more snow too. LOL
 

onenybrother

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Debt.

Debt.

My girlfriend 4yrs at Florida A.M. with her grandmother footing all housing costs. Another 4 yrs at Seton Hall for her Masters with her job footing half of the load. $50,000 in the hole. That's not the best part we are engaged, so now I will pick up some of that debt. At least one of us is smart lol.
 

NDgettysburg

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Was just reading the following info recapping the '06 Alumni Senate. Appeared in the Black Hills ND Alumni club's newsletter....interesting:

- ND has the 19th largest endowment among US colleges
- One third of endowment earnings are used for scholarships
- Expect the ND Yearly Budget, which is currently funded 35% from tuition to drop to 25% tuition funding
- Research Grants and Annual Donations must increase
 

punishment

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KMac151993 said:
But thats my point so because people 100 years ago treated a group badly means that now they get special privledges. The people that suffered the injustices are now all dead and the people that caused these injustices are dead as well...so like you said back on topic all higher education today is a rip off, they know if you want it you will pay and they got ya.

Yea, but the descendants of those who conducted the bad treatment are still reaping the rewards.

OK, not all. But it has a drizzle effect. God knows where a lot of the children and grandchildren of the minorities that were mistreated a while ago would be had there parents raised their children in Malibu instead of Compton.
 
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NDXUFan

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Kerry's G.P.A. was lower than Bush's grade point average.

Shark
 
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NDXUFan

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LOVEMYIRISH said:
Your best value can be found in the BigTen schools. Namely:
University of Wisconsin
University of Iowa
Indiana University
University of Minnesota

These three schools are world class and are hands down better than any of the schools you mentioned above. In fact, these schools are in many cases are INTERNATIONALLY recognized.

My advice...look to the midwest and northeast for Public Universities... They are amongst the best in the country. The south simply does not compare. (there are wonderful PRIVATE schools down there, but not public)


First, I am sure that many of these undergraduates were taught by teaching assistants. Second, most of the "world famous professors" are doing research to make money for the University. Third, professors are hired and retained for their research, not teaching skills. Fourth, the universities that you have mentioned, are basically graduate and research institutions, they are not undergraduate institutions. Fifth, at Our Lady's School, the undergraduate is a taught by a full-time faculty member, not a teaching assistant. Sixth, I have graduated from a midwestern state institution. I would have much rather graduated from Notre Dame.

Shark
 

LOVEMYIRISH

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NDXUFan said:
First, I am sure that many of these undergraduates were taught by teaching assistants. Second, most of the "world famous professors" are doing research to make money for the University. Third, professors are hired and retained for their research, not teaching skills. Fourth, the universities that you have mentioned, are basically graduate and research institutions, they are not undergraduate institutions. Fifth, at Our Lady's School, the undergraduate is a taught by a full-time faculty member, not a teaching assistant. Sixth, I have graduated from a midwestern state institution. I would have much rather graduated from Notre Dame.

Shark

I agree ND is better...however, his whole point has been that he will not be going to ND and was thus looking at large Public institutions in the South...whereupon I directed him to look a bit farther north.
 

Sir John

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Just an update: I was discussing this issue with my sister, and her neice is at a local Catholic HS she replied tuition there is now $8,000 per year. That's $32,000 if it stays the same across 4 years. Blue collar and middle class are squeezed out.
 

NDgettysburg

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Sir John said:
Just an update: I was discussing this issue with my sister, and her neice is at a local Catholic HS she replied tuition there is now $8,000 per year. That's $32,000 if it stays the same across 4 years. Blue collar and middle class are squeezed out.
It all depends on the location.....tuition for my son this year at the local Catholic HS is $3800. I have a cousin 60 miles away who also has a son entering 9th grade and tuition is about 6K. Go down to the Northern Va area and it jumps up even more.

Just the way things are.....different cost of running things I suppose. The same townhouse on my street that goes for about $120K here, costs half a million or more in NOVA.
 

LOVEMYIRISH

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NDgettysburg said:
It all depends on the location.....tuition for my son this year at the local Catholic HS is $3800. I have a cousin 60 miles away who also has a son entering 9th grade and tuition is about 6K. Go down to the Northern Va area and it jumps up even more.

Just the way things are.....different cost of running things I suppose. The same townhouse on my street that goes for about $120K here, costs half a million or more in NOVA.

Don't forget that the local Diocese gives TONS of money to local Catholic schools.

ND does not have that Luxury.

Also, Professors/Buildings/Materials costs TONS more at a University.
 

NDgettysburg

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LOVEMYIRISH said:
Don't forget that the local Diocese gives TONS of money to local Catholic schools.

ND does not have that Luxury.
True....but the local schools also don't get great donations or endowments from their Alumni like ND does.

LOVEMYIRISH said:
Also, Professors/Buildings/Materials costs TONS more at a University.
Absolutely! As someone else said, ND is a pretty big campus with loads of buildings and infrastructure to maintain without govt funding.
 

irish9331

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You know I always wanted to go to Notre Dame, I even applied and was accepted, but there was no way that my family could swing it. As I look back maybe it was the best thing for me financially. I am a nurse, and my education at a state school is actually better than the nurses that come out of the college of nursing at a local Jesuit university. My class from the state college had a 97% pass rate on the NCLEX license exam and the people who are $140,000 in debt have a 45% pass rate. There is a great article in Time from the last few weeks about how kids really don't care if they go to the Ivies or major private instituions like ND, they want to get an education, but not have hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt from it.
 

dublinirish

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Just an update: I was discussing this issue with my sister, and her neice is at a local Catholic HS she replied tuition there is now $8,000 per year. That's $32,000 if it stays the same across 4 years. Blue collar and middle class are squeezed out.
32K sounds like a bargain lol
 

forkbeard3777

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This thread aged well. :LOL: Notre Dame's $42,000 tuition, in 2024, would now be a steal. Currently, out-of-state tuition at "State U" will be approximately $40,000.00.
 
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