ND Scheduling Factors

[Legacy]

I believe the following are some of the factors influencing ND football scheduling (possible purposes in paratheses):

• Competition (Entertainment value)
• Geography (Fan Base/Participation/Recruiting)
• 7-4-1 formula (home-away-neutral)
• Big East commitment (Participation without full conference scheduling)
• Maintain Traditional Rivalries (Mich, USC, Navy, MSU, Purdue, Stanford)
• Play universities with commitment to their student/athletes

A negative factor would be teams who do not want to play ND, whether due to competition, proposed date/location, or other conditions such as not wanting to play ND during their conference schedule.
Some complexities/challenges - If ND maintains the 6 traditional rivalries above at home and home (3 home and 3 away each year), the 7-4-1 formula becomes 4-1-1. Navy is most open to playing a large venue game (Baltimore, Dublin), which can give ND another possible away game every other year. With the proposed UConn and Rutgers contracts, ND also seems to be trying meet the Big East commitment, schedule in large venues, and have a presence in geographically significant areas such as New Jersey/NY and Florida. ND has a west coast presence with USC, Stanford and sometimes U. Washington and Midwest scheduling with Big 10 rivals and Pittsburgh. Playing Cincinnati would accomodate a Big East commitment and establish a competition with an Ohio university.
Finally, programs' commitment to their student/athletes can be measured by:

1. Graduation Success Rates (GSR)
2. Academic Progress Rates (APR)
3. Letters of Intent/Scholarships over 5 years (85 scholarship students maximum at any one time)
4. Comparing Grad Rate of Athletes to overall student grad rates

[/LIST]
Navy, Boston College, and Stanford yearly rank at the top of these measures. The top 4 PAC 10 teams in APR are Stanford, Cal, Wash and USC. The top 4 Big East teams in APR are Rutgers, Conn, Syracuse and Pitts. Cinn. ranks high in GSR.
At the other end, Alabama has one of the worst APRs nationally, verging on scholarship losses, has a GSR of 48% for their athletes (v. 63% students overall) and has signed 141 student/athletes to letters of intent over 5 yrs (ave - 112 for 4 yrs).

 

[Sir John]

Well done Legacy

 

[Bubba]

I wonder why ND won't play Rutgers on their home turf. Everything I've read says it's not an option at all. It makes ND seem a little elitist. Are we scared? Rutgers is an up and coming program and it would look better on our schedule than UCONN. (I'm not bashing UCONN, so control yourselves!) I hate that ultimately every decision seems to be about money; maybe it's not, but the appearance is there. Just my .02

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

Well done Legacy

Agreed. I just wish that Div. 1-A teams weren't allowed to play Div 1-AA Teams. I think the schedules some teams have are a disgrace.

 

[goldandblue]

I wonder why ND won't play Rutgers on their home turf. Everything I've read says it's not an option at all. It makes ND seem a little elitist. Are we scared? Rutgers is an up and coming program and it would look better on our schedule than UCONN. (I'm not bashing UCONN, so control yourselves!) I hate that ultimately every decision seems to be about money; maybe it's not, but the appearance is there. Just my .02

I don't think that ND is scared by any means. Although it may appear that we look scared I think it boils down to money. ND feels like they can make more money playing UCONN in a larger venue then they can playing Rutgers in a smaller one. Which I think sucks.

Kevin White: dumbing down future schedules is one thing but making us look like pussies for a dollar is another.

 

[ant80]

I don't think that ND is scared by any means. Although it may appear that we look scared I think it boils down to money. ND feels like they can make more money playing UCONN in a larger venue then they can playing Rutgers in a smaller one. Which I think sucks.

Kevin White: dumbing down future schedules is one thing but making us look like pussies for a dollar is another.

Remember, another factor is recruiting. Playing at a larger stadium (60,000 as opposed to 55,000 when renovations are completed at the Rutgers stadium; these numbers are out of the top of my head) will mean more seats for ND alumni that are abundant in the NY/NJ area.

 

[Shamrock44]

We need to play more games in recruiting hot beds such as Texas, Florida and Georgia. Period.

 

[the_dango_ate_your_baby]

Agreed. I just wish that Div. 1-A teams weren't allowed to play Div 1-AA Teams. I think the schedules some teams have are a disgrace.

I don't have anything wrong with a team playing a D-1aa team with the following provisions. (all of these should typically apply)

1. The team is scheduling them because they had a D-1a team back out of a game with them within 12 months of the scheduled game.

2. If #1 happens, an effort is made to schedule a D-1aa team from your own state. Why schedule a team from California if you are in Texas or something like that. At least this way you are going to get some local alumni and stuff from the other team that will be able to come and watch their alma mater play against some top competition.

3. No exceptions, ONLY 1 per year absolute maximum. (sorry Texas Tech the past few seasons and Florida State this upcoming season)

4. The win should NOT under any circumstances count towards the win total for bowl eligibility.

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

We need to play more games in recruiting hot beds such as Texas, Florida and Georgia. Period.

I'm with you on that.

 

[Sir John]

What's wrong with more money? I bet readers want more.

 

[Legacy]

I agree ND should try to play games in Florida/Georgia and Texas. One difficulty is conference schedules.
Texas - The Big 12 teams typically do not schedule out of conference games during conference schedules. Here's the future schedules through 2015 - Big 12 Conference - Official Athletic Site ND may need to look at Non-Big 12 Texas teams, including include TCU or SMU. Dallas would be a great place to play. For now, White has scheduled a neutral site venue game in San Antonio with Wash St U. in '09.
Florida & Georgia - The SEC teams occasionally play non-conference games during the conference schedule, but those state teams traditionally and politically play other in-state teams. Here's Florida's announced schedule - Florida Football Future Schedules Fla Atlantic, Fla International and FSU seem to be on Florida's schedule for years to come. FSU has major academic and NCAA difficulties. Miami seems booked until 2013 - Miami Hurricanes Football Future Schedules
An obstacle might be ND choosing the 7-4-1 format for games with 6 traditonal rivals reducing that to 3-1-1. Scheduling is tightened up further is long term contracts with Pittsburgh and now UConn. Notre Dame Football Schedules
Solutions -- Texas -- ND may need to look at Non-Big 12 Texas teams, including include TCU or SMU. Dallas would be a great place to play. For now, White has scheduled a neutral site venue game in San Antonio with Wash St U. in '09.
Florida -- S. Florida would not only meet part of a Big East commitment, but the Big East teams could be more flexible with ND for later season games, and the away game may be scheduled in a large venue - Orlando, etc. Ideally, the schedule would have a game in Florida each year, alternating two Florida (or Georgia) teams as USC and Stanford schedules allow ND to play a California game yearly. However, ND's schedule probably runs out of room before that can happen.

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

Florida and Texas schools are too busy filling their non-conference schedule with Di-AA cupcakes.

 

[MirageSmack]

Agreed. I just wish that Div. 1-A teams weren't allowed to play Div 1-AA Teams. I think the schedules some teams have are a disgrace.

As long as Michigan still plays Appalachian state , I'm cool with that.

 

[the_dango_ate_your_baby]

Well as a current TCU student (who is headed to Notre Dame for graduate school in the Fall), I believe the majority of TCU fans would love to see Notre Dame schedule and home and home with TCU. The thing is, Notre Dame would probably not want to play at Amon Carter because it is too small. (Of course Arkansas, LSU, Texas, and Oklahoma are all lined up to play there, so maybe not)

Once the new Cowboys stadium is completed, maybe TCU will do a home and neutral site with Notre Dame with the neutral game being played at the new Cowboys Stadium.

 

[BDIrish4ever]

Well as a current TCU student (who is headed to Notre Dame for graduate school in the Fall), I believe the majority of TCU fans would love to see Notre Dame schedule and home and home with TCU. The thing is, Notre Dame would probably not want to play at Amon Carter because it is too small. (Of course Arkansas, LSU, Texas, and Oklahoma are all lined up to play there, so maybe not)

Once the new Cowboys stadium is completed, maybe TCU will do a home and neutral site with Notre Dame with the neutral game being played at the new Cowboys Stadium.

I would be OK with that!

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

Penn St. loses ND and picks up powerhouse Coastal Carolina. They make me sick.

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

Penn St. loses ND and picks up powerhouse Coastal Carolina. They make me sick.

And they can't drop the "rivalry" with Temple. Paterno won't play Pitt because he doesn't want a home and home. He feels that P$U is entitled to get two home games to Pitts one.

 

[nd1988]

I don't think that ND is scared by any means. Although it may appear that we look scared I think it boils down to money. ND feels like they can make more money playing UCONN in a larger venue then they can playing Rutgers in a smaller one. Which I think sucks.

Kevin White: dumbing down future schedules is one thing but making us look like pussies for a dollar is another.

That is why KW has to go.....

 

[scrodz]

ND is scheduling cupcakes. You're afraid to schedule tough teams, because you want the BCS payday you get if you win enough games. You're even afraid to play your cupcakes on their home field. Rockne would be ashamed to see what the Golden Dome has become.

 

[SoCalDomer]

They have yet to schedule any D-1AA schools or teams from non-BCS conferences (aside from Navy which is a legitimate mid-major school and Army or Airforce). But army and airforce are not regulars on the schedule. and most of us would agree we would rather see them play teams other than those two. thanks for your 2cents, though.

if you want to stick around, contrary/unpopular opinions are allowed, just don't do so in a way that is intended to antagonize or start fights.

welcome to IE

 

[goldandblue]

Scrodz your bound to be either a michigan fan or an SEC fan. Either way, Many of us ND fans aren't for an cupcake schedule. We like to play the best out there so when we get to the point where we should be we can say we played the best and beat the best.

 

[Sureal]

ND is scheduling cupcakes. You're afraid to schedule tough teams, because you want the BCS payday you get if you win enough games. You're even afraid to play your cupcakes on their home field. Rockne would be ashamed to see what the Golden Dome has become.

Oh boy. Here we go...

 

[scrodz]

Scrodz your bound to be either a michigan fan or an SEC fan. Either way, Many of us ND fans aren't for an cupcake schedule. We like to play the best out there so when we get to the point where we should be we can say we played the best and beat the best.

The best? UConn? Arizona State? You won't even play them home and home. Seriously, you guys used to take on all comers. Now it's just whoever will make you a buck.

 

[Sureal]

So if ND was in the Big Tenleventy the schedule would be tougher...

 

[scrodz]

So if ND was in the Big Tenleventy the schedule would be tougher...

No, but you wouldn't be able to shop for home wins like you're doing now.

 

[SoCalDomer]

The best? UConn? Arizona State? You won't even play them home and home. Seriously, you guys used to take on all comers. Now it's just whoever will make you a buck.

ASU finished tied for first in the Pac-10 last year, with a 10-3 overall record and 7-2 conference record. They finished the season ranked #16 The only reason they didn't go to the Rose Bowl was because they lost to USC head to head. They had the same conference record as USC. Conneticut finished 2nd in the Big East and 9-4 overall.

Both schools are far better than the entire Sun Belt conference, which seems to be the prefered whipping boys of the SEC. The Big 10 likes to beat up on the Mid American conference teams. Neither of those conferences are BCS.

ND has yet to schedule a D-1AA school, which many of the SEC and Big-10 folks did last year.

Last year ND finished i believe in the top 10 in strength of schedule.

The only school on our schedule this year not in a BCS conf is SDSU and Navy. And to be fair to Navy, they can hold their own with most BCS schools.

So, that's fine if you feel ND schedules soft teams, but it's not a feeling based on facts. Get your facts straight.

 

[Sureal]

yeah, what SoCal said...

 

[KamaraPolice]

Michigan, USC and Navy are the only games that I feel have to be played on an annual basis. I can understand Purdue, but why is Standford on there? I'm not aware of the tradition there.

 

[Legacy]

ND is scheduling cupcakes. You're afraid to schedule tough teams, because you want the BCS payday you get if you win enough games. You're even afraid to play your cupcakes on their home field. Rockne would be ashamed to see what the Golden Dome has become.

Scrodz,
Here's a good article on each leagues' scheduling "the Big 6 conferences" v. "cupcakes". Perhaps you did not know that 10 of Notre Dame's opponents went to Bowl games last year? And that ND will play 10 "Big 6" opponents this year - more than any other team.
Rivals.com College Football - Non-conference slates continue to weaken

 

[Legacy]

Big 10 cupcakes--
Here are the Big 10's non-BCS, non-conference games for 2008 and their rankings by Jeff Sagarin in 2007:
229--Murray State 2- 9 (Indiana)
221--Northern Colorado 1-11 (Purdue)
183--Coastal Carolina 5-6 (Penn St)
177--Montana State 6-5 (Minnesota)
173--Eastern Illinois 8-4 (Illinois)
170--Fla. International 1-11 (Iowa)
161--Maine 4-7 (Iowa)
150--Northern Illinois 2-10 (Minnesota)
138--Cal Poly-SLO 7-4 (Wisconsin)
137--Louisiana-Lafayette 3-9 (Illinois)
135--Temple 4-8 (Penn St)
128--Eastern Michigan 4-8 (Michigan St)
127--Akron 4-8 (Wisconsin)
126--Toledo 5-7 (Michigan)
125--Marshall 3-9 (Wisconsin)
118--Western Kentucky 7-5 (Indiana)
116--Miami-Ohio 6-7 (Michigan)
114--Ohio University 6-6 (Michigan St)
113--Syracuse 2-10 (Northwestern)
109--Duke 1-11 (Northwestern)
106--Western Michigan 5-7 (Illinois)
105--Youngstown State 7-4 (Ohio State)
99--Bowling Green 8-5 (Minnesota)
83--Ball State 7-6 (Indiana)
82--Central Michigan 8-6 (Indiana)
78--Florida Atlantic 8-5 (Mich St)
76--Southern Illinois 12-2 (Northwestern)
60--Fresno State 9-4 (Wisconsin)
53--Troy 8-4 (Ohio St)
34--Utah 9-4 (Michigan)

The Big 10 has scheduled 30 of its 44 non-conference games against non-"Big 6" conference teams.

If Minnesota was 122nd, Northwestern was 86th, and Iowa was 79th, were they considered in-conference cupcakes?

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