ND- OSU post game thread

[Rockin’Irish]

I finally got around to watching this.

Lou Holtz is an icon. That was hysterical and the man still can bring the heat. The fact that Ryan Day got offended by that bit underscores even more how soft he is. I expect OSU to get stomped by Michigan.

Yeah, if you let an 86 year old former coach hurt your feelings in that kind of setting then you are much too fragile and/or sensitive.

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

It wasn't just a foot. It was a foot and an extra play. It's pretty clear you don't actually understand the situation.

Correct, you basically give them 2 shots. It was not recognizing that we could have substituted because they did that was the issue. Refs would have held up the play to let him on the field to match their substitution.

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

The extra play? Guess what, if they score there isn’t another play. Which is what happened. The logic doesn’t hold up unless you are here to carry Freeman’s water.

Thats the point. If they score game over. If they dont game over. If the flag comes out and they dont score, they get another chance.
Freeman bang your wife or something? We get it, you dont like the guy and dont think he deserves the head coach. I actually like and agree with most of what you have to say, but geez on the Freeman hate lol. In year two he is as good if not better than Brian Kelly is. Who would be better, considering ALL aspects of the program and trajectory right now?

 

[IRISHDODGER]

I knew Marist missed some key tackles. What I didn’t know is that according to the box score on ESPN he recorded zero tackles.

 

[Luckylucci]

Correct, you basically give them 2 shots. It was not recognizing that we could have substituted because they did that was the issue. Refs would have held up the play to let him on the field to match their substitution.

Which is the whole point. Not that we somehow didn’t run a dude on at the very last second. They had several minutes of real time to figure this out and didn’t. So at the last second we get some BS excuse because we don’t want them to have a free play that they didn’t need.

 

[Gold1]

Correct, you basically give them 2 shots. It was not recognizing that we could have substituted because they did that was the issue. Refs would have held up the play to let him on the field to match their substitution.

The only thing that matters now is to win out, which barring any emotional let down should happen. ND will not face another defense that strong the rest of the way. In fact, IMO only Georgia has a defense as good or slightly better than OSU. Still possible to win it all. Early very close loss where ND largely outplayed OSU will not hurt them if they win out.

 

[sfk324]

Correct, you basically give them 2 shots. It was not recognizing that we could have substituted because they did that was the issue. Refs would have held up the play to let him on the field to match their substitution.

His explanation indicated they didn't realize until after the opportunity to sub. Which is way too late for something like that to go noticed, but that's a separate issue. "Why didn't you recognize it earlier?" is a different question than "Did you know, and if so, why didn't you run another player out when you did?" He was asked the latter and gave an answer. He wasn't asked the former. His answer there wouldn't be satisfying either, and would almost assuredly (based on prior responses to similar, albeit not as gut-punch of a mistake) be that there was a breakdown in communication and it's ultimately on him and they're addressing it.

 

[Lberry]

Guessing a player Fd up. Maybe it's not fair to speculate but seems like it was Botehlo, and it was always curious how he couldn't get on the field in years past. Maybe it's stuff like this, IDC.

But wouldn't surprise me in the least if MF is projecting a player from getting hate mail.

 

[Rockin’Irish]

His explanation indicated they didn't realize until after the opportunity to sub. Which is way too late for something like that to go noticed, but that's a separate issue. "Why didn't you recognize it earlier?" is a different question than "Did you know, and if so, why didn't you run another player out when you did?" He was asked the latter and gave an answer. He wasn't asked the former. His answer there wouldn't be satisfying either, and would almost assuredly (based on prior responses to similar, albeit not as gut-punch of a mistake) be that there was a breakdown in communication and it's ultimately on him and they're addressing it.

I think the question that should be asked to MF is if the same situation presented itself down the road in another game, would there be a better way to handle it? I’d be pretty surprised if he said no. I’m quite sure he is harder on himself to make better decisions.

 

[PutuporShutup]

He made a bad mistake. He also has to trust that his coaches have his back. They didn’t in that scenario. But a leader isn’t going to put them on blast to the media. I’m not defending what happened on the field. However, I’m not going to shit on the guy for giving a response that ultimately owned the fact it was his decision. Whether it was or not, maybe he made it up on the spot, he still took the hit. Leaders do that for fucking up.

I don’t care about his response, he couldn’t give an accurate one because he didn’t know how bad it was … that’s why it needs brought up again

 

[Rockin’Irish]

Guessing a player Fd up. Maybe it's not fair to speculate but seems like it was Botehlo, and it was always curious how he couldn't get on the field in years past. Maybe it's stuff like this, IDC.

But wouldn't surprise me in the least if MF is projecting a player from getting hate mail.

That is certainly a possibility and you would want MF to do that if true but address it in private.

 

[Gold1]

The only thing that matters now is to win out, which barring any emotional let down should happen. ND will not face another defense that strong the rest of the way. In fact, IMO only Georgia has a defense as good or slightly better than OSU. Still possible to win it all. Early very close loss where ND largely outplayed OSU will not hurt them if they win out.

OSU lost to a 7-6 Va Tech team in 2014 and still won it all. Bama lost to Ole Miss in 2015. Clemson lost to Pitt in 2016. Bama lost to Auburn in 2017. All went on to CFP and won the NC. This is still the best team ND has had since ‘93 IMO.

 

[PutuporShutup]

I think the question that should be asked to MF is if the same situation presented itself down the road in another game, would there be a better way to handle it? I’d be pretty surprised if he said no. I’m quite sure he is harder on himself to make better decisions.

The wrong question was asked and we keep talking about. It’s now why he didn’t run someone out there.

The right question is how after a timeout did you not have 11 out there, and no coaches or players noticed it, and the next play there isn’t 11 out there again despite osu substitution and nd getting a chance to substitute as well over 37 seconds …

The question asked at the PC didn’t have all the info of how bad it actually was. If it was just the last play a singular player or coach could have messed up, two plays in a row is a problem withe the entire staff, defensive unit and structure of communication, substitution, and recognition. Multiple people didn’t do their job, and that is systemic

 

[Rockin’Irish]

The wrong question was asked and we keep talking about. It’s now why he didn’t run someone out there.

The right question is how after a timeout did you not have 11 out there, and no coaches or players noticed it, and the next play there isn’t 11 out there again despite osu substitution and nd getting a chance to substitute as well over 37 seconds …

The question asked at the PC didn’t have all the info of how bad it actually was. If it was just the last play a singular player or coach could have messed up, two plays in a row is a problem withe the entire staff, defensive unit and structure

I’m pretty confident it doesn’t matter what they say in a press conference but it is very important how they correct any shortcomings within the staff and player meetings. That’s where it makes a difference. We will have to wait and see if that happens.

 

[ThePiombino]

This is still the best team ND has had since ‘93 IMO.

Not sure if that's true or not, but if it is they will have to have a statement game next week because it's not just about wins anymore. Now it has to be about style too. No hangover. Straight jailsexing of a decent team.

 

[PutuporShutup]

I’m pretty confident it doesn’t matter what they say in a press conference but it is very important how they correct any shortcomings within the staff and player meetings. That’s where it makes a difference. We will have to wait and see if that happens.

Agree, my point is not that we need a great answer, its that there’s a major problem with whatever structure he and the entire team has in place for analyzing opposition personnel and substitutions, it’s a critical part of operating within a football game and it is messed up at nd, and it showed itself at the worst point possible

 

[SaltyND24]

It was a huge fuck up, we get it. No answer is going to make you or I feel any better about the situation. So, yall that are still trippin and upset about it need to step back and take a break or realize that you're still mad because you want to be, which is a problem only YOU can fix. On to the fucking next one...

 

[forkbeard3777]

Thats the point. If they score game over. If they dont game over. If the flag comes out and they dont score, they get another chance.
Freeman bang your wife or something? We get it, you dont like the guy and dont think he deserves the head coach. I actually like and agree with most of what you have to say, but geez on the Freeman hate lol. In year two he is as good if not better than Brian Kelly is. Who would be better, considering ALL aspects of the program and trajectory right now?

I don’t want to get into a whole BK vs MF thing, but I don’t know how you can say that at this point. You may hate him, but Kelly had a NC appearance and 2 Playoff appearances. Point being, it’s way too early in MF’s career. He’s still largely an unknown at this point. There are some things to be optimistic and happy about, others…well…you know…

 

[Rockin’Irish]

Agree, my point is not that we need a great answer, its that there’s a major problem with whatever structure he and the entire team has in place for analyzing opposition personnel and substitutions, it’s a critical part of operating within a football game and it is messed up at nd, and it showed itself at the worst point possible

I think we need a great answer……by not ever seeing it happen again!!!

 

[Edge]

I knew Marist missed some key tackles. What I didn’t know is that according to the box score on ESPN he recorded zero tackles.

Correct and Played 61 snaps

 

[PutuporShutup]

It was a huge fuck up, we get it. No answer is going to make you or I feel any better about the situation. So, yall that are still trippin and upset about it need to step back and take a break or realize that you're still mad because you want to be, which is a problem only YOU can fix. On to the fucking next one...

How can you expect one of the biggest in game F ups in nd history to not be discussed ad nauseam ?

 

[forkbeard3777]

How can you expect one of the biggest in game F ups in nd history to not be discussed ad nauseam ?

yeah, it hasn’t even been 24 hours. It deserves to be discussed…

 

[PutuporShutup]

I think we need a great answer……by not ever seeing it happen again!!!

Yeah but he probably should admit to major structural issues, or at least not try to downplay it… two plays in a row is not a single coach or player issue, it’s the entire structure

 

[FDNYIrish1]

I knew Marist missed some key tackles. What I didn’t know is that according to the box score on ESPN he recorded zero tackles.

Him getting swallowed up on that long TD run and losing contain was not a good football play.

 

[Rockin’Irish]

Does anyone remember who was held by Harrison on Henderson’s long run? It was the same play where Watts rolled up on Harrison’s ankle. You could see him holding the ND player’s jersey with both hands as he was falling which prevented the ND player from attempting the tackle. Cam Hart?

 

[NDisme]

Guessing a player Fd up. Maybe it's not fair to speculate but seems like it was Botehlo, and it was always curious how he couldn't get on the field in years past. Maybe it's stuff like this, IDC.

But wouldn't surprise me in the least if MF is projecting a player from getting hate mail.

Wouldn’t have mattered if it was Botelho or not, he was non existent all game anyway

 

[PutuporShutup]

Let’s play your game. How? Specifically, how should Freeman demonstrate what you want him to? In a real world of interconnected professional relationships where humans work with each other closely. You want him to publicly state “major structural issues” as a solution to those problems when his team just lost a game they should have won to the number 6 team in the country? How is that a solution? Shouldn’t the solutions occur in all the work behind the scenes that is needed to be done internally? Or you want him to verbalize it to everyone?

Very simple…. “It’s unacceptable to have only 10 players out there any play let alone 2 plays in a row at such a critical moment. I am reviewing our entire personnel recognition and substitutions plans and communication to ensure changes are made that it never happens again. People, myself included make mistakes, but to have it obviously happen back to back plays means it’s more than a single person.”

 

[T Town Tommy]

A lot of emphasis on the 10 players on the field as the reason for the loss. I think the bigger play that should be discussed is the 3rd and 19. Why would you have the LBs in at that point instead of a couple more DBs or safeties? Park them at the five yard line and dare the QB to beat you. I’ll take my chances with that defensive setup.

 

[forkbeard3777]

A lot of emphasis on the 10 players on the field as the reason for the loss. I think the bigger play that should be discussed is the 3rd and 19. Why would you have the LBs in at that point instead of a couple more DBs or safeties? Park them at the five yard line and dare the QB to beat you. I’ll take my chances with that defensive setup.

I agree that the 3rd and 19 needs to be discussed (as does ND’s poor offensive drive / failure to kill the clock), but send pressure like you’ve been doing instead of rushing three. It never works and, respectfully, ND doesn’t have anyone on the d - line to get pressure with just three guys.

So, instead, you drop 7 or 8 (again, unfortunately, with the incompetency of this staff, you’d need to go back at the tape to verify that they even had 11 guys) to play a weak zone and they convert like it was no big deal.

Send someone (Marist, Kiser, touchdown Jesus from the library — I don’t care) to get to the QB or generate some pressure and force an errant throw.

 

[Sea Turtle]

A lot of emphasis on the 10 players on the field as the reason for the loss. I think the bigger play that should be discussed is the 3rd and 19. Why would you have the LBs in at that point instead of a couple more DBs or safeties? Park them at the five yard line and dare the QB to beat you. I’ll take my chances with that defensive setup.

Because we have a bargain discount coaching staff. Honestly.