Navy Postgame

[peadeam]

Yes, every damn year until they call it off. Notre Dame does not have any agency in this debt of honor.
We pledged, they accepted. We're Chewbacca here, not Han.

If you do not understand, then maybe your idea of honor needs some work. Convenience is not a valid excuse.

Did we pledge to play them while they were breaking ankles?? So honorable

 

[SWirishfan]

Did we pledge to play them while they were breaking ankles?? So honorable

As I said, maybe your idea of honor needs some work. The Debt of Honor is on us, not them. The Navy football program owes us nothing. They already paid. There are only 2 paths that end the series with ND's Honor intact - Navy drops us or their football program ends. There is no honorable, ND-initiated exit condition.

We are the vassal pledged to a liege lord. If he calls for our sword and our death, that is what he is owed. To renounce it is to turn ND into a version of the Cignetti UI/Riley USC. The same theme of trying to escape those things that can be mitigated (or conquered) in the name easing the team's path into Post Season Playoff ranking. If that is what you want, then as I said, your idea of honor needs some work.

So, yes:
- while they break ankles and twist knees
- while they bite
- while they tackle way out of bounds with the intent to vent their spleen
- while they do all the things they can do, and do in fact do, in the course of trying to win a game.

It seems most of the Navy game detractors think that our O & D lineman are saints on the field. They are also scrapping for every little advantage in the pile. The idea of honor required by ND fans of Navy is not something that we execute perfectly all the time. I mean look at the Traore hit on Bear. Perfectly illegal, perfectly intentional.

It is acknowledged, and should be remembered, that without the USN ROTC program during WW2, Notre Dame (as we know it) does not exist and we are all fans of some other team.

So go be the fan of some other team, and from there you can call for the end of the series with logical consistency and your honor intact.

 

[peadeam]

I’m sorry? I think you have me confused with someone that gives a shit about your opinion about my fandom. Sounds like you need to be a fan of Navy so you can blab about made up honor.

 

[SWirishfan]

I’m sorry? I think you have me confused with someone that gives a shit about your opinion about my fandom. Sounds like you need to be a fan of Navy so you can blab about made up honor.

Well let me clear it up for you.
1. I am a fan of Notre Dame and the ND-Navy game.
2. I am a fan of Navy, mainly due to being in Navy ROTC at Notre Dame.
3. Dishonor is bad, as are dishonorable acts.
4. While I have an opinion on your thoughts here, I have no opinion on you or your fandom.

However, you asked a question, "Did we pledge to play them while they were breaking ankles?? So honorable," and I attempted to answer it.
To be consistent with the University's promise made 80-ish years ago, the University must continue the series. To unilaterally break it off should be considered dishonorable. Please see point #3 above.

I understand, for the sake of the temporary, you disagree.

 

[peadeam]

Well let me clear it up for you.
1. I am a fan of Notre Dame and the ND-Navy game.
2. I am a fan of Navy, mainly due to being in Navy ROTC at Notre Dame.
3. Dishonor is bad, as are dishonorable acts.
4. While I have an opinion on your thoughts here, I have no opinion on you or your fandom.

However, you asked a question, "Did we pledge to play them while they were breaking ankles?? So honorable," and I attempted to answer it.
To be consistent with the University's promise made 80-ish years ago, the University must continue the series. To unilaterally break it off should be considered dishonorable. Please see point #3 above.

I understand, for the sake of the temporary, you disagree.

And that’s the thing, you and people like you spout off about honor or dishonor but refuse to admit that losing key players to dirty fuckers when you have meaningful games to play matters more than some imaginary “honor”. Do you think that when this agreement was made 80’years ago Navy notified ND that they would have guys purposely trying to injure ours? Would it have been “dishonorable” for ND to refuse to play them? This isnt the only year we’ve noticed this

 

[Huntr]

Well let me clear it up for you.

2. I am a fan of Navy, mainly due to being in Navy ROTC at Notre Dame.

How many times have you had to eat the cracker?

 

[WineGate]

How many times have you had to eat the cracker?

It would be dishonorable not to

 

[IAIrish]

I go back and forth on the question of should ND still play Navy. Both sides have decent arguments.

I wonder how those making these decisions at that time would see it, knowing that there are millions of dollars on the line for ND and potentially an enrollment boost for Navy.

I also have wondered why the church at didn't act with financial support to keep one of its universities open at that time? Seems counter to the church's mission to allow it to fold. We're now seeing a bit of that history repeat itself as rural diocese in the Midwest contract.

This debate does offer a valuable lesson I've share with my boys: never take help from someone when there's a condition attached to it. You're better off being self-reliant.

 

[SWirishfan]

How many times have you had to eat the cracker?

I was a brown shoe, we never saw what the SWOs did below decks.

 

[SWirishfan]

And that’s the thing, you and people like you spout off about honor or dishonor but refuse to admit that losing key players to dirty fuckers when you have meaningful games to play matters more than some imaginary “honor”. Do you think that when this agreement was made 80’years ago Navy notified ND that they would have guys purposely trying to injure ours? Would it have been “dishonorable” for ND to refuse to play them? This isnt the only year we’ve noticed this

1. Do you think that when this agreement was made 80'years ago Navy notified ND that they would have guys purposefully trying to injure others? - No I doubt much more was said than is in the history records "We play as long as they want to"

2. Would it have been dishonorable to refuse to play them? - Before the institution of the V-12 program, no. Afterwards, yes.

3. "...but refuse to admit that losing key players to dirty fuckers when you have meaningful games to play matters more that some imaginary 'honor'" - A Notre Dame game is entertainment, and that is all it is. To tell you the truth, I thought this was a bit you were playing. Starting to think you believe this. If this is a major part of your life, one that gets your steam up so high, well I no longer know what to say to you. Good luck on that.

 

[Redbar]

I go back and forth on the question of should ND still play Navy. Both sides have decent arguments.

I wonder how those making these decisions at that time would see it, knowing that there are millions of dollars on the line for ND and potentially an enrollment boost for Navy.

I also have wondered why the church at didn't act with financial support to keep one of its universities open at that time? Seems counter to the church's mission to allow it to fold. We're now seeing a bit of that history repeat itself as rural diocese in the Midwest contract.

This debate does offer a valuable lesson I've share with my boys: never take help from someone when there's a condition attached to it. You're better off being self-reliant.

I agree. I understand both sides of this argument. I love the story and significance of the series. The problem is there are a few people who are disproportionately bearing the weight of the University’s honor. Is it fair for the University and coaching staff to ask and require this additional risk to their student athletes? If you think so, then don’t be upset when players seek other people, parents or agents, to look out and potentially hold them out, in their own best interest. If the university can’t be counted on to protect the athletes interest while it pursues its own noble interests. How many guys who have dedicated everything to their dream of providing for themselves and their families have to suffer lower leg injuries because one team feels that they should take an inherently dangerous game and practice techniques that we know makes it significantly more dangerous. i don’t think it’s fair to say one or two ACL or lower limb injuries a year is the acceptable cost to this debt. I am in favor of keeping the series but I don’t understand why it should be that hard to compel them to STOP the chop blocks and the ridiculous little brother energy. Throw the frickin flags, toss people out, let both teams know that is how it’s going to be no leeway. Then, let’s beat the shit out of them every year!