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And what perceptions might those be?Rip Rap said:
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seIRISH said:
The relative merits of a legitimate recruit vs. the son of a wealthy trustee, both children of alumni, at the same position. And its probably best if we don't go any further with this, as it was foolish for me to bring it up.
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Yeah but the first recruit was taken by ty.The other isn't being taken by charlie.Duerson was a CB and the other one is a quarterback.Rip Rap said:
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is Duerson any good. His speed doesn't impress me, kinda wrong a kid gets picked because of who his father is, i know ND has the best Alumni in the country, but bringing in a kid like duerson was uncalled for.
Hopefully he becomes a player, but currenty i view him as a kid who got where he is because of his family.
Hopefully he becomes a player, but currenty i view him as a kid who got where he is because of his family.
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QueensNY said:
Oh, the hell with it. I'll tell you what I really think: The damning part is that this has happened twice. They gave a scholarship to John Jordan's kid too. When daddy can write a check for your tuition, and nobody thinks you're worth a damn, have the common courtesy to walk-on. From where does this pressure to bring these kids in arise?
Dave Duerson and John Jordan give all appearances of being self-interested asses.
Also, Moriarty is being recruited by almost everybody as an athlete, not a quarterback, projecting to defensive back.
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Right on, good points.The thing I do not understand is were is the pressure coming from.Are the coaches in charge being told that they have to do this.Or is it their choice because they fell they have to.Is charlie just breaking this trend?I know duerson was recruitedby penn st.Rip Rap said:
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C'mon man. The check book is mighter then the sword.seIRISH said:Right on, good points.The thing I do not understand is were is the pressure coming from.Are the coaches in charge being told that they have to do this.Or is it their choice because they fell they have to.Is charlie just breaking this trend?I know duerson was recruitedby penn st.
EDIT: I'm still dumbfounded we have not offered BOTH Moriaty and McCarthy.
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sorry I may be ignorant to this but it still has to go through the coach and Ty with his high morales would have done this.So far weis has done good with recruiting and I trust he will continue this.Both look like good athletes but do you see them as differance makers.There are plenty of two star athletes that want to go to ND.Weis has shown he starts at the top and works his way down.They will be their if he wants them and i am sure he knows this.Svoboda said:
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seIRISH said:sorry I may be ignorant to this but it still has to go through the coach and Ty with his high morales would have done this.So far weis has done good with recruiting and I trust he will continue this.Both look like good athletes but do you see them as differance makers.There are plenty of two star athletes that want to go to ND.Weis has shown he starts at the top and works his way down.They will be their if he wants them and i am sure he knows this.
I have a different analysis of our needs then some others on this board, but the situation with the defensive backs is unquestionably terrible. We need dbacks (which is why there is serious talk of making Hoskins a corner), and fast juked-out option quarterbacks make great converts. Hence, I think they both should be offered.
We are shallow on our linemen, but we have good recruits. We may pick up full line classes yet, on both sides of the ball. I fail to see the 'glaring holes' in the receivers corps. I just think they're just badly coached. We certainly have enough of them (10 on scholarship). But if Hoskins is a corner, and neither Jenkins nor Wilson appear to actually deserve scholarships at the Division 1 level, we still only have Thomas and Walker as running backs.
That's my analysis of the current situation.
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Further explanation of 'grey shirt:'
http://www.ndnation.com/boards/showpost.cgi?football+247493-NDFANINMADTOWN
http://www.ndnation.com/boards/showpost.cgi?football+247493-NDFANINMADTOWN
timm3117
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Kyle McCarthy and Kellen Moriarty
I'd like to see us offer to these guys. Both around 6 feet tall, both run around a 4.4 40. There speed would help on Special teams and maybe in the secondary or at WR. Remember our best deep wr last year was a walk on, And speed is speed you cant learn it and it cant be taught. Both these kids want to play for the Irish, and if we dont offer, I think it will be a mistake. 5 stars are nice but there just as many 2 and 3 star players playing on sundays.
I'd like to see us offer to these guys. Both around 6 feet tall, both run around a 4.4 40. There speed would help on Special teams and maybe in the secondary or at WR. Remember our best deep wr last year was a walk on, And speed is speed you cant learn it and it cant be taught. Both these kids want to play for the Irish, and if we dont offer, I think it will be a mistake. 5 stars are nice but there just as many 2 and 3 star players playing on sundays.
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I don't think this is anything new as Rip Rap has been on top of both since the initial sniffin' butt stage, however we haven't heard anything about the camp saying we're even interested despite both basically saying they are ND for the taking.timm3117 said:
I really wish the CDub Regime would go ahead and offer both. Only reason they may not have been offered is because they may be working on something bigger?
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I trust Weis and his staff, they've been coaching a long time, maybe they don't think these kids will be any good.
I think both would probably play safety in college. We already have a bunch of safeties.
I don't think these guys will play corner.I know these 2 guys have alot of speed, but you don't see many white corners. I know that may sound stupid, but its true how many white guys do you see plaing corner.
They could play wide reciever, but again, we have 3 wide outs committed. Maybe if Nelson takes off, you'll see Weis offer one of these guys.
I think both would probably play safety in college. We already have a bunch of safeties.
I don't think these guys will play corner.I know these 2 guys have alot of speed, but you don't see many white corners. I know that may sound stupid, but its true how many white guys do you see plaing corner.
They could play wide reciever, but again, we have 3 wide outs committed. Maybe if Nelson takes off, you'll see Weis offer one of these guys.
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Man, disappointed in that statement whether it is true or not. I think people put way too much into how many stars a player is, if they played at a small school, what have you.QueensNY said:
Everyone, and I mean everyone has negatives.
That said, kids like Moriarty and McCarthy have much more value besides what they can do on the field. First, they are all-around athletes which means they can step in on special teams, fill holes when injuries happen and the like. Secondly, because they believe in all that is Notre Dame, they have immeasurable value in keeping morale high, recruting efforts and all of those rah-rah things that the big time players generally don't get involved in.
Just take a look at some of the schools stepping up for both of these kids and you'll see that they may be undervalued. McCarthy has now gotten an offer from Ohio State. Wonder why? Moriarty is now being considered for a gray shirt at Colorado. Wonder why? They both have value and if we don't take them, someone will.
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timm3117
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Every team has its superstars, but without roll players, you cant win. A guy with 4.4 speed can do alot for a team. Even if he only plays special teams. Which sucked for ND. Its not like I'm saying give my cousin Bob an offer. These guys have offers from Ohio St. and other top schools.
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I agree we need hole fillers (insert obvious joke here). Every level has these guys. Just look at the teams left in the NFL playoffs. Everyone of those teams have players that fill in and play special teams. How nice would it be to have these two as gunners on kick-off and punt coverage teams, to keep a few key speed guys fresh.
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Svoboda said:
I have total faith in Weis and his staff as talent evaluators. If they feel these kids don't deserve a scholarship, then I'm fine with that. Until Weis and his staff show me they can't evaluate talent, I'm not going to question them on who they offer or don't offer.
McCarthy and Moriarty are projected to play WR or safety in college. We currently have Herring, and Bruton, and Washington(if you want to consider him a safety) committed to play safety. Not to mention we have plenty of good safetys currently on the team. Safety may be our best position in terms of talent and depth.
At wide receiver were stacked as well. As long as Nelson stays on board were fine. Even with Stovall mcknight and shelton leaving after next year, we'll still have vaughn, jeff s, hord, nelson, grimes. Not to mention we'll prolly bring in wide receiver commits next year.
So at WR and safety we have plenty of talent and depth, this is why we don't need McCarthy and moriarty, if we offer these guys and they commit it will take away key scholarships that we need to fill other positions that are lacking depth. Such as linebacker, running back, corner, o line, D line.
We need to have a balanced recruiting class, that has been the problem at ND for quite some time. If we were to give offers to McCarthy and Moriarty, that would give us 4 or 5 safetys in one class, or 4 or 5 WR's. Do we really need to bring in 4 or 5 safety's and receivers in one class? No, we need balance across the board.
If were going to offer some 2 star type players, let it be at positions where we need to fill up the depth chart. Linebacker for example will be thin next year, Running back will be thin, Corner will be thin, bring in the 2 star guys at these positions, not at WR and saftey's where were loaded already.
We currently have 12 commits, with a few major guys still out there (kuntz, hand, jackson, etc) so figure we land a few of those guys giving us 15 or 16 commits. We have 20 or 21 scholarships to offer this year, Weis may want to hold some of those offers until next years class so he can bring in a full 25 man class.
With ND soon having the best facilities in college football, Weis working fulltime at ND, and some solid play on the field, there's no reason ND can't have a top 5 class next year. So instead of offering some 2 star guys this year just to fill up the class hold them till next year so we can use them on blue chippers.
If Nelson leaves then I'd offer these guys, if nelson stays I wouldn't offer them, I'd instead use them for the positions where we need to fill up the depth chart. I know last week I wanted McCarthy and Moriaty, but I've changed my mind, I want a balanced class.
We only get 85 scholarships, we need to use them wisely at each posiiton.
This is my opinion why Weis hasn't offered these guys....
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Hopefully nelson sees were putting together a good class and decides to stay.
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QueensNY said:
Every year we lose somebody huge that we thought was a given and pick up a suprise. Last year we lost Baker and picked up Jabbie, the year before that we lost Bush and picked up Abiamiri, and the year before that we lost Booker and picked up McKnight.
This year we'll probably lose Nelson and pick up...
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ND coaches had an in home visited with McCarthy yesterday. He's waiting for an offer from them by this weekend or he'll be going elsewhere.
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Source?QueensNY said:
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it's also on blue and gold..
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Man, thanks for the link. I really hope we pick him up. He isn't going to be a big time guy, but he will be a solid addition that can fill multiple roles.
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Svoboda said:
McCarthy, generally considered a 3-star recruit, now has an offer. We now have a full-fledged recruiting war with tOSU for McCarthy and Wilson. Yippie.
"Coach Weis called today and Notre Dame offered a scholarship," McCarthy told Irish Today. "He told me that they have been looking at my stuff over the past two weeks and now the time was right and he wanted to offer. He said he really wants to get me down to South Bend and have me be a part of Notre Dame."
http://www.irishtoday.com/newsboard/newsboard.html
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Rip Rap said:
I call this progress. When you are fighting with OSU for recruits, that can only be good... well, unless you're paying them.
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BigIrish said:
First, we're getting into this very late. For his own peace of mind he probably came to accept that tOSU was a fine place for him to end up. However, he grew up an ND fan and has Domers in the family, and I suspect he'll come because of that. I think he's entitled to his visit, which he is taking this weekend. At the conclusion of his recruiting visit I expect he will give a 'yes' or 'no' answer.
Also, somebody on another board noted that tOSU did NOT offer Harrison. McCarthy could be far better then we realize, having received offers from tOSU and ND in the past month.
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If the staff likes McCarthy thats good enough for me.