'It' factor favors Notre Dame

Irish Envy

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Let's start with an assumption.

Either you think Notre Dame has clearly earned a Bowl Championship Series berth, or you think the Fighting Irish are stealing one from a more deserving team, such as Oregon, Auburn or Ohio State.

There's no middle ground.
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"You either love them or hate them," Orange Bowl CEO Keith Tribble said Tuesday from Miami. "As long as they're one of the top teams in the country, it will always be that way."

Debate about Notre Dame's merits began a few minutes after the Fighting Irish became BCS-eligible with a last-second 38-31 victory over 5-6 Stanford Saturday night in Palo Alto.

Asked why the Irish are such an attractive bowl team, Tribble said, "I think, No. 1, it's the tradition. People look at Notre Dame and they recall the great tradition. Four Horsemen, Knute Rockne, icons that people just identify with their tradition."

But there's something else that makes the Irish irresistible to folks in polyester blazers. Those gold helmets translate into a different sort of gold - television ratings.

"They have a huge following and very great TV ratings," Tribble said.

But wait. So does Penn State.

And when it comes to TV ratings, at least in the Fiesta Bowl, Penn State's ratings are far greater than Notre Dame's.

The Nittany Lions have played in six Fiesta Bowls, winning them all. According to Fiesta Bowl figures, the six Penn State Fiestas have drawn an average rating of 15.3.

By comparison, Notre Dame's three Fiesta Bowls have averaged only an 11.2 rating.

Notre Dame's best Fiesta rating, 17.0, came when the Fighting Irish beat West Virginia in January 1989 to win their last national title. Three Penn State Fiestas earned bigger ratings - including the Nittany Lions' triumph over Miami in the January 1987 national title game, which drew a 25.1 rating, the largest in the Fiesta history by far.

No. 3 Penn State is ranked five slots ahead of Notre Dame in the latest Bowl Championship Series standings. The 10-1 Nittany Lions also have a better record than the 9-2 Fighting Irish.

This begs a question: Why would the Fiesta, given the choice, be so quick to grab Notre Dame over Penn State?

Why would the Fiesta snub a team that has been a proven postseason commodity - Penn State's 23 bowl victories rank fourth in Division I-A history - to take a team on a seven-game postseason slide? (And three of those losses have come here in the Valley, with Notre Dame losing two Fiestas and an Insight by an average score of 40-18.)

Why would the Fiesta pass up a chance to spend a week with Penn State coach Joe Paterno, whose 353 victories are second in major-college history?

The answer: It's Notre Dame, stupid.

It isn't quite that simple, at least in the view of some Fiesta committee members, who believe Notre Dame provides more flexibility in making a matchup. If the Fiesta were to choose Penn State, it would then have to decide between Auburn and Oregon. With Notre Dame in the mix, the Fiesta can invite Ohio State, Auburn or Oregon.

But that's not how it looks to outsiders. Last week, Oregon Athletic Director Bill Moos and head coach Mike Bellotti visited Fiesta officials in Tempe to build a case for the Ducks, who, like Penn State, have a better record than the Irish and are ranked ahead of them in the BCS standings.

"What we told the Fiesta Bowl people was, if you want to go back over the last 100 years, that's fine, we're probably not in the running," Moos said from Eugene, Ore. "But if you want to address the last 12 years, we can show you a football program that has blossomed here at Oregon.

"We can't compete with the Four Horsemen and Knute Rockne and all those things and we don't intend to. What we have is a good, solid program and a fan base that will flock to the desert."

He's right. Oregon, Ohio State and Auburn all have made strong arguments.

But they all lack one thing. How do we put this gently?

They're not Notre Dame.

Source: Arizona Republic
 
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bigdon

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Let's suppose the Fiesta picks the third rated team--PSU. The Orange bowl would quickly grab ND. A Va Tech matchup with ND would be huge!

The Fiesta would have to pick Auburn--A rematch between PSU and OSU has little appeal. That game has already been played. PSU would hate to come 3000 miles just to prove they can beat a team they have already beaten.

OSU would love to get another crack at PSU. For them it's a chance at vindication.

That game would be of interest to the fans of both schools but would have little broad appeal--hence Fiesta would have to take Auburn.

Would a PSU-Auburn game be better than a Va Tech-ND? Hardly!!

That's why Fiesta has to pick ND. It matches well against any of the other at large teams. To me it looks like ND-OSU. One hell of a game.
 
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LuckyDUCK

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When was

When was

The last time the your Team ND actually won a bowl game? You think that you are playing at one level, so when you get the Bowl because of the ND name only. What happens? You get your butt kick. Oregon State did it to ya .Tell me truth , even though it hurts.
 

Irish Envy

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LuckyDUCK said:
The last time the your Team ND actually won a bowl game? You think that you are playing at one level, so when you get the Bowl because of the ND name only. What happens? You get your butt kick. Oregon State did it to ya .Tell me truth , even though it hurts.

You're right, we haven't won a bowl game since 1994. However, what does the past have to do with the present?

If you want to go that route, how many National Championships does Oregon have? What is your all-time winning percentage? How do those numbers stack up against us?
 
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LuckyDUCK

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What about the past. That is what you are all saying, Its about the History of ND, who cares, thats my point. Bowl games at-large should be based on a year to year bases.
 

jiggafini19

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LuckyDUCK said:
The last time the your Team ND actually won a bowl game? You think that you are playing at one level, so when you get the Bowl because of the ND name only. What happens? You get your butt kick. Oregon State did it to ya .Tell me truth , even though it hurts.

This 2005 edition of the team has yet to play in a bowl game. Nor has a Charlie Weis coached team. Since the bids haven't gone out yet, you just never know.

As anyone on this board will tell you, I don't rely on tradition and history. Good or bad. It's there to lean on when you need it most.

Things are changing around Notre Dame Football and it's for the better, believe me.
 

Irish Envy

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LuckyDUCK said:
What about the past. That is what you are all saying, Its about the History of ND, who cares, thats my point. Bowl games at-large should be based on a year to year bases.

Which they are. That's what you bitter Oregon fans seem to be missing.

This isn't a 8-3 or 7-4 Notre Dame team getting into a good bowl because of it's history, it is a 9-2 squad that has qualified for a BCS at-large berth because we got the necessary 9 wins and finished in the Top 12 of the BCS rankings.

What else did we need to do to be BCS worthy?
 

jiggafini19

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LuckyDUCK said:
What about the past. That is what you are all saying, Its about the History of ND, who cares, thats my point. Bowl games at-large should be based on a year to year bases.

In a perfect world, yes. In a perfect world, I-A would have a playoff bracket. But they don't.

Notre Dame has two losses, both by 3 points. One was in overtime, the other was to a team that has won 30-some odd games in a row and was on the last play of the game.

Those two losses were not ass kickings. Call the schedule weak, but minus scUM and Stanford by 7 each, ND has waxed everyone else and walked away with 9 wins.

This team was 6-6 last year. Same players, new coach. Good football team.
 
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LuckyDUCK

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This is my point.You you get the bid because of History. Ohio STate and Oregon according the bcs should be in, not ND. We have huge tv-viewership. we have the whole PAC-10 , who would love us to beat you or Ohio State. We have 10 wins. We won more games and ranked highier for a reason then you in the BCS. You get over this Tradition crap. Your tradition is getting overrated and put into a bowl game that is out of your league. BTW Oregon did not get a bowl game last year because we only won 5 games. We doubled that outcome this year. We could have done no more. We would playing for the NAtional title if we beat USC. What would you have said if we didn't play USC and played UCLA instead this year. Thus being 11-0. NOt played USC ? What are your thoughts on that. LUCKY FOR YOU WE WILL NEVER KNOW.
 

irishnd31

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LuckyDUCK said:
The last time the your Team ND actually won a bowl game? You think that you are playing at one level, so when you get the Bowl because of the ND name only. What happens? You get your butt kick. Oregon State did it to ya .Tell me truth , even though it hurts.
You know that is a great question. Let me ask you and be very serious...did you think of that question all by yourself, or did you talk to the other DICK I mean DUCK fans on here? I really enjoyed your question and I enjoyed it even more the first 50 times you idiots asked it on here. Boy you Oregonians are freakin original.
 

jiggafini19

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Luckyduck, You're assuming a Duck victory over the Bruins?

You know what, Nebraska got their asses handed to them by Colorado a few years back and got a chance to play Miami for the title. They got killed.

Oklahoma got waxed by Kansas State in the Big 12 Dr. Pepper bowl and got the nod over SC to face LSU.

I'm willing to bet you that had Oregon beaten SC, Oregon STILL might not be ranked #2 as an unbeaten with Texas.

Va Tech has one loss, same as Oregon, and they got their asses smoked by a two loss Miami team. You've got a gripe with them just as much as you do with ND. But Va Tech wins some stupid conference championship game and they get in. The Pac 10 doesn't have a conference championship game. Neither does the Big Ten. If they did, Ohio State might be able to get in as an automatic and not an at large. Oregon could have another shot at SC in a title game.

ND got hosed over a National title in 1993 in favor of a team they beat. College football is an unfair monster. You just happen to be on the $hit end of it. And who knows....Oregon might still get a BCS game
 

jiggafini19

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jiggafini19 said:
Luckyduck, You're assuming a Duck victory over the Bruins?
You know what, Nebraska got their asses handed to them by Colorado a few years back and got a chance to play Miami for the title. They got killed.
Oklahoma got waxed by Kansas State in the Big 12 Dr. Pepper bowl and got the nod over SC to face LSU.
I'm willing to bet you that had Oregon beaten SC, Oregon STILL might not be ranked #2 as an unbeaten with Texas.
Va Tech has one loss, same as Oregon, and they got their asses smoked by a two loss Miami team. You've got a gripe with them just as much as you do with ND. But Va Tech wins some stupid conference championship game and they get in. The Pac 10 doesn't have a conference championship game. Neither does the Big Ten. If they did, Ohio State might be able to get in as an automatic and not an at large. Oregon could have another shot at SC in a title game.
ND got hosed over a National title in 1993 in favor of a team they beat. College football is an unfair monster. You just happen to be on the $hit end of it. And who knows....Oregon might still get a BCS game

Man, how's that for some lucid thinking?

I'm getting better and better each day.
 
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LuckyDUCK

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BCS is still work in progress and acutlly no I thought of it all by myself. I actually posted that on the DUCK forum first. Pac10 needs to due more to up the pac-10. The PAC-10 has been hoosed that last 4 out of 5 years. So don't give this we missed out on the title BS. PAC-10 is stronger then your confernce. Sorry you won yours. A league of 1 team.
 

Irish Envy

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LuckyDUCK said:
BCS is still work in progress and acutlly no I thought of it all by myself. I actually posted that on the DUCK forum first. Pac10 needs to due more to up the pac-10. The PAC-10 has been hoosed that last 4 out of 5 years. So don't give this we missed out on the title BS. PAC-10 is stronger then your confernce. Sorry you won yours. A league of 1 team.

This makes absolutely no sense.
 

irishnd31

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LuckyDUCK said:
BCS is still work in progress and acutlly no I thought of it all by myself. I actually posted that on the DUCK forum first. Pac10 needs to due more to up the pac-10. The PAC-10 has been hoosed that last 4 out of 5 years. So don't give this we missed out on the title BS. PAC-10 is stronger then your confernce. Sorry you won yours. A league of 1 team.


Yew acutlly thawt awl buy yer shelf??? What does the PAC 10 have to DUE? I'm sorry you were hoosed!! (whatever the hell that is). We aren't in a confernce. Oh wait, now I get it, you were making a joke. I just wet my self. Great stuff.
That was a fantastic post.
That post is worthy of a BCS bid.
Unfortunately, that is the only way that you will be a part of a BCS bowl Mr. Funny Man.
 

jiggafini19

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LuckyDUCK said:
BCS is still work in progress and acutlly no I thought of it all by myself. I actually posted that on the DUCK forum first. Pac10 needs to due more to up the pac-10. The PAC-10 has been hoosed that last 4 out of 5 years. So don't give this we missed out on the title BS. PAC-10 is stronger then your confernce. Sorry you won yours. A league of 1 team.

ND schedules are made years in advance and they take on all comers. This does not include Houston and Montana. And the Pac 10 is BARELY better than the Mountain West this year.

I suggest going to split divisions, which is stupid but since you're in a conference and that matters so much, do what everyone else is doing which is both stupid and greed filled: get a Championship Game and raid the smaller non BCS conferences for a couple more teams.

Pac 10 North:
Washington
Washington State
Oregon
Oregon State
Cal

Pac 10 South:
USC
UCLA
Arizona
Arizona State
Stanford

That's perfect West Coast geography, I might add.

Whatsmore, you could even raid the WAC and Moutain West to obtain a BYU, Utah, UNLV or Fresno State combo so that you can have a PAC 12 with more teams and more money.

I forgot, though. The Notre Dame is the only money grubbing greddy college football program in the World.

And that Pac 10 North would be the Ducks to win or lose each year. Laughable.
 

jiggafini19

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irishnd31 said:
Where do you find this stuff? LMAO!!!! So much for killing them with kindness, huh?

Playing down to my opponents, much the way ND did to Stanford. From the Ohio State guy:

I just joined but from what I can tell there are certain Oregon fans not making much sense.....
 
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Guest

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Oregon got creamed by SC, ND almost beat them. ND struggled with Stanford but we still basically doubled their yardage output, missed two chip shot FG's and allowed a kickoff return TD. ND should've won that game by about 3 TD's

Didn't Oregon schedule Montana, a division 1AA school. IMO you lost alot of credit by scheduling that school. Stick to division one schools.

The only bowl that matters is the NC bowl, all other bowls mean nothing, it comes down to pleasing college football fans around the country, nobody wants to watch Oregon in a bowl, if oregon got snubbed out of a NC game than you'd have a point.

Don't complain about ND, complain about West Virgina being in a BCS bowl, or FSU still having a chance to play in a BCS game....
 

irishnd31

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jiggafini19 said:
Playing down to my opponents, much the way ND did to Stanford. From the Ohio State guy:
I just joined but from what I can tell there are certain Oregon fans not making much sense.....


Hey, OSU dude seemed decent. I thought that we were going to have another war on our hands.
 

NDgettysburg

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QueensNY said:
The only bowl that matters is the NC bowl, all other bowls mean nothing, it comes down to pleasing college football fans around the country, nobody wants to watch Oregon in a bowl
Nah, you're wrong:
LuckyDUCK said:
We have huge tv-viewership
:)
 
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South Side Irish

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Go BCS Bound Irish!!!

Go BCS Bound Irish!!!

Yes, if Notre Dame does get into the Fiesta Bowl, they are doing so because of who they are. But, that is the standard they were held to and one they lived up to. The same can be said for the Big East winner or the ACC champ. If Free Shoes University (FSU) beats VT on Saturday, they will be in a BCS game and they are not even ranked in ght top-25. Is that right??? Well, that is the standard that was set for that conference.
Until someone comes up with a better plan, this is the one we're stuck with. Hopefully the Irish will run the table in 2006 and this will be a mute point for us all.

GO BCS BOUND IRISH!!!
 

jiggafini19

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South Side Irish said:
Yes, if Notre Dame does get into the Fiesta Bowl, they are doing so because of who they are. But, that is the standard they were held to and one they lived up to. The same can be said for the Big East winner or the ACC champ. If Free Shoes University (FSU) beats VT on Saturday, they will be in a BCS game and they are not even ranked in ght top-25. Is that right??? Well, that is the standard that was set for that conference.
Until someone comes up with a better plan, this is the one we're stuck with. Hopefully the Irish will run the table in 2006 and this will be a mute point for us all.
GO BCS BOUND IRISH!!!

One post and this guy has already made more points than that of Duck Nation combined on IrishEnvy.

SouthSide Irish, are you a Chitown guy? If so, GO IRISH and Konerko is coming back to the Sox!!
 
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South Side Irish

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South Side

South Side

Konerko AND Thome?? Look out! I grew up on S. Side (Beverly). I Joined the Air Force, retired after 20 years and now reside in Fl. I still fly my ND flag proudly every Sat though. Pisses these people off!!
 

jiggafini19

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South Side Irish said:
Konerko AND Thome?? Look out! I grew up on S. Side (Beverly). I Joined the Air Force, retired after 20 years and now reside in Fl. I still fly my ND flag proudly every Sat though. Pisses these people off!!

Beverly, eh?

Where'd you go to school? Mt. Carmel? St. Rita?
 

domerfor life

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LuckyDUCK said:
This is my point.You you get the bid because of History. Ohio STate and Oregon according the bcs should be in, not ND. We have huge tv-viewership. we have the whole PAC-10 , who would love us to beat you or Ohio State. We have 10 wins. We won more games and ranked highier for a reason then you in the BCS. You get over this Tradition crap. Your tradition is getting overrated and put into a bowl game that is out of your league. BTW Oregon did not get a bowl game last year because we only won 5 games. We doubled that outcome this year. We could have done no more. We would playing for the NAtional title if we beat USC. What would you have said if we didn't play USC and played UCLA instead this year. Thus being 11-0. NOt played USC ? What are your thoughts on that. LUCKY FOR YOU WE WILL NEVER KNOW.

???????What the hell? Your post set my English back 8 years. Different duck, same sad song. This is so utterly pathetic. I didn't understand half the crap you said, evidently you missed a couple of years of English. You make absolutely no sense and come off as a lame-brain a-hole. You won 1 more game than we did. 1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1. Sorry, I thought I would return the favor of redudantcy. We won 9 games against Div 1A opponents. You won 9 games against Div 1A opponents. That win over Montana means nothing. If we scheduled Montana, that would've been a nice little scrimmage. Where do you have huge tv-viewership? The game last Saturday against an average team was televised nationally. How do you know that a bowl game is out of our league? Oh...how could I forget. We lost the last two bowls to your buddies Oregon State. Oh yeah, and we lost to MSU at home. What that has to do with now the world will never know. We won 9 games and finished in the Top 12 of the BCS this year. We are qualified to go to a BCS bowl. That's not living off tradition. That's taking care of business. Some conference you play in. The average MOV for SC against conference opponents is 26.7. That's pathetic.Your president can't even work out a good deal for the other top teams in conference. The Holiday Bowl and the Sun Bowl? Some deal. Don't hate the player, hate the game. Oh and say this with me.......The proofreader is my friend.
 

irishnd31

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domerfor life said:
???????What the hell? Your post set my English back 8 years. Different duck, same sad song. This is so utterly pathetic. I didn't understand half the crap you said, evidently you missed a couple of years of English. You make absolutely no sense and come off as a lame-brain a-hole. You won 1 more game than we did. 1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1. Sorry, I thought I would return the favor of redudantcy. We won 9 games against Div 1A opponents. You won 9 games against Div 1A opponents. That win over Montana means nothing. If we scheduled Montana, that would've been a nice little scrimmage. Where do you have huge tv-viewership? The game last Saturday against an average team was televised nationally. How do you know that a bowl game is out of our league? Oh...how could I forget. We lost the last two bowls to your buddies Oregon State. Oh yeah, and we lost to MSU at home. What that has to do with now the world will never know. We won 9 games and finished in the Top 12 of the BCS this year. We are qualified to go to a BCS bowl. That's not living off tradition. That's taking care of business. Some conference you play in. The average MOV for SC against conference opponents is 26.7. That's pathetic.Your president can't even work out a good deal for the other top teams in conference. The Holiday Bowl and the Sun Bowl? Some deal. Don't hate the player, hate the game. Oh and say this with me.......The proofreader is my friend.


Let the war continue!!!!:swordfigh
 

absoluteirish59

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Listen up Luckyduck. I'm so sick and tired of hearing all this BS. Should oregon go to a BCS game? Yes. Should ohio st. go? Yes. Should ND go to a BCS game? Yes. All three teams are worthy. Will all three teams go? Probably not. Oh yeah, what about auburn, do they deserve a shot? Sure. You need to stop making arguments why ND should'nt go and oregon should. Truth be told all of these teams should go. But we have a couple problems here. All of which have nothing to do with ND. #1 West virginia is gonna go as the big east champ which is a joke. #2 the BCS sucks!! Everyone knows it. The only thing the BCS was designed for is to make sure the two best teams play in the national championship game. This year they will get it right because USC and TEX are so far above everyone else. Previous years they could'nt even get that right. The bottom line is.............. a FUCKIN PLAYOFF SYSTEM!!! Yeah you knew i was gonna say that right? Thats because any rational person knows that is what college football needs! Every other level of college football has it and every other sport that i can think of. It's the only true way to decide who is the best team. Will we ever get it? HELL NO!!! Why you ask. Because of $$$$$$$$$$$$. With a playoff system you would only have a certain amount of teams eligible for post season play. Without it we can have 40 fuckin bowl games, which means more $$$$$ for confrences and the universities and not to mention the bowls themselves. Anyway thats my take.
 
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