Heisman Race

[marv81s]

if i had a vote, i would say, at this point, 1) garrett wolfe 2) Calvin Johnson 3) Adrian Petersen 4) Robert Meachem 5) Brady Quinn

OK, I'm pathetic quoting myself, but after today, I have to redo this list since Wolfe had a terrible game today, 25 yards on 18 carries and since Adrian Petersen is done for the year. I think we'll all have to redo our list after the games today. Too bad for both of those gentlemen.

 

[jiggafini19]

Smith is the best player on the #1 team in America.

He is 6th in passing efficiency. Quinn is 31st.

Mike Hart and PJ Hill not getting consideration baffles me.

 

[maison bleu]

With or without Manningham, the constant is Lloyd Carr.

I don't think scUM goes into Columbus and wins. I just don't see it. The Buckeye defense is too good and Troy Smith has matured into a very good passer and leader.

Should tOSU win that game, Smith wins.

When the O$U D gets a load of Hart, Henne, and Manningham, then we'll find out how good they are. Please don't accuse me of ripping their schedule, but let me point out that they haven't really played a lot of good offensive teams. Texas has freshman QB, Penn St had a new starter at QB, Iowa has been a huge disappointment.

The O$U D has "looked" good so far. Chad "the Jaw" Henne will expose them.

Henne in a Heisman thread.... Hmm, maybe next year.

 

[jerseyborn1971]

His name was Phelan. Gerry Phelan. I saw the game. "It's called a desperation pass." Actually is was a play in BC Coach Bicknell's playbook. One BC had run 3 times before that season, once successfully.

"The receiver who got that open and stayed with the play should get most of the credit." The play was designed for all the receivers to flood one area of the end zone AND for Phelan to be the primary receiver. He's the guy that was supposed to go up for the ball. If he couldn't catch it, he was supposed to tip it to one of the other receivers situated strategically as they had PRACTICED throughout the season.

Miami had the play scouted but they underestimated the ability of Flutie to throw the ball long INTO a 30 mph wind. The Cane defenders bunched up where they expected the ball could be thrown - short of the endzone.

The fact that it was the last play of the game, that Flutie was being chased around the backfield by an All-American defender, that he was back at his 37, in a 30 mph wind, and he threw a strike, not a "heave" 60 yards downfield to the designated receiver - not just any receiver was remarkable. Flutie executed the play as they practiced it, only this time under great duress, adverse conditions, and time pressure. That was excellence. That was the quintessential Heisman moment!

If Phelan had dropped the ball more people would remember him, like ND fans remember the interception Bercich didn't make in the '93 BC game, or FSU fans with "Wide Right".

Phelan was my cousin's roommate at BC. My cousin was a lineman. We have a grudge that Gerry never gets any credit.

 

[jiggafini19]

There isn't a team in North America that has played a tough schedule, Maison. And that is at any level of football, anywhere...pee wee, High school, JUCO, NCAA, NAIA, NFL, Canada or even NFL Europe. I am completely convinced of three things in this life: that there is a God, I am not him and everyone's football schedule sucks. Period.

Personally, I think most of the population has no idea what it is like to play football or coach football. They see things on paper and think they know something. They don't.

Personally, I see the location of that game and I have a hard time believing anyone is going to expose anything to anyone. Unless that DT shows up and starts whacking it on someone's front porch.

People like to forget that Ohio State has stepped up and won big games when they've had to, looking good each time. I know Texas has a freshman QB and Iowa's is short, but going on the road and winning in those environments is...respectable. Maybe not impressive or difficult, but ....respectable.

 

[NDAlumSon]

In relative terms mind you, the group that ends up sitting in The Downtown Athletic Club this year looks to be a fairly weak one from historical standards.

 

[jiggafini19]

You're right, but the season is only half way through.

 

[lattedatte]

1) Troy Smith
2) Steve Slaton
3) Brady Quinn
4) Calvin Johnson
5) Ian Johnson

 

[NDAlumSon]

Oh yea, you're right.
And here I thought that loss to Michigan was the end of the world, let alone the season.
NOT !

 

[punishment]

Troy Smith can average 100 yards passing for the rest of the year and still win the Heisman so long as he beats Michigan.

Like Dennis Green would say "If you want to crown em already, just crown em!"

 

[jiggafini19]

I believe it was "crown their ass"

He and John L. Smith are going to start their own coaching clinic tour.

 

[FleaFlicker]

It is very possible that if Smith plays about the same as he has all year, maybe a little worse, and Quinn plays a little better (he should, considering our schedule).

That it will come down to the last few weekends. If both Smith and Quinn play well at UM and USC respectively, Smith wins. If Smith plays pretty bad against that UM D, and Quinn lights up USC. It will be damn close.

 

[DeeRock]

wah wah wah

 

[DeeRock]

could'nt have been summarized any better

 

[onenybrother]

The bottom line is in Troy Smith's biggest game this year he stepped up big and lead his team to victory in Brady's biggest game he turned the ball over and helped his team get pounded by Michigan.

Couldn't of said it myself. Brady wouldn't get my Heisman vote until I see what he does against USC.

 

[Óglaigh_na_hÉireann]

The thing about Troy Smith is.. the guy has only made a handful of precision passes. If you watch one of their games, Smith's receivers seem to do 99% of the work.. and often times it's just Ted Ginn breaking free of coverage downfield---that presents an easy throw to any legitimate D-1 college football player.

As for the defenses Troy has gone up against, Texas was the only one of merit, and I'd be more than willing to say their's is overrated. We'll see what he does against Michigan... and we can only ponder how they would've done against that Georgia Tech defense.

But really, I just think Brady's getting a bad deal. One loss, no matter how bad it is, should n't force someone out of the heisman contest, particularly when that candidate led them through a game like the one at Georgia Tech.

And if Troy Smith has a far worse game than Brady did against Michigan and OSU gets pounded, he'll still win the heisman trophy. That's what pisses me off most about all of this.

 

[jiggafini19]

How about Penn State's defense?

They looked pretty good against OSU and scUM. ND shredded them up.

 

[jerseyborn1971]

I'd love to see Brady win the Heisman, but I'd rather see him go first in the draft. That would kill the haters. A Notre Dame quarterback first in the draft? That's the Apocalypse for the haters.

 

[jiggafini19]

He is going to go first or second overall. Wherever he gets picked, he'll be the first QB taken.

Calvin Johnson might zoom up the charts, assuming he comes out early.

I wouldn't worry too much about the Heisman. If you don't know it is total bullshit after last season, you never will. They hand it out a month too soon, too.

 

[WinOverAll08]

Simply put, and as we all know, Smith will win the Heisman if OSU wins out. What angers me though is that OSU has carried Troy Smith, not vice versa. His numbers aren't lavish, and he has struggled at times. True, he is the leader, and the leader is always glorified. Because of this, the media loves him because of his reluctance to let his team falter. I can only hope that his numbers don't show up in this second half. Hopefully he will struggle against Michigan too, because if Michigan goes to the Championship, and we get #2, then I know we will not lose. Anyways, that's beside the point. At this point in the season, I'd go 1)Smith
2) Quinn
3)Slaton
4)Wolfe
5)Peterson

 

[jerseyborn1971]

Smith might have a bad game or two before the end of the year. He hasn't always been the model of consistency. I think his WR's carry him as much as he "leads" the team. He has won two big games, but that had at least as much to do with the OSU defense. Last I checked, Troy doesn't play D.

I still think he is a great college quarterback and probably deserves the trophy as much as anyone else, but I'm sick of him being the unanimous winner. He is nowhere near that dominant. Not even close.

Next year Brady will be signing a $50+ million dollar contract and Troy will be either authorizing $39.99/day contracts at Enterprise Rent A Car or sharing an apartment with a running back/linebacker playing for an arena league team. How much would renter's insurance be for a Heisman Trophy?

 

[FleaFlicker]

Smith might have a bad game or two before the end of the year. He hasn't always been the model of consistency. I think his WR's carry him as much as he "leads" the team. He has won two big games, but that had at least as much to do with the OSU defense. Last I checked, Troy doesn't play D.

I still think he is a great college quarterback and probably deserves the trophy as much as anyone else, but I'm sick of him being the unanimous winner. He is nowhere near that dominant. Not even close.

Next year Brady will be signing a $50+ million dollar contract and Troy will be either authorizing $39.99/day contracts at Enterprise Rent A Car or sharing an apartment with a running back/linebacker playing for an arena league team. How much would renter's insurance be for a Heisman Trophy?

Dude, Smith is a great Pro prospect as well. That is probably the reason he is focusing on pocket passing this year. To prove to NFL scouts that he isn't your typical "Charlie Ward" type of player. And I have to say, his completion percentage is one of the best in the country, and he never runs.

Really, not much to argue about. And he has clearly played well against good defenses. I agree that a lot of that has to do with how great his receivers are. But you can't say ND has bad receivers/RB/tight end for the passing game.

If I voted based on their play up to this point, Smith wins. But there is still plenty of FB left.

Both will be pro quarterbacks next year.

 

[jiggafini19]

In relative terms mind you, the group that ends up sitting in The Downtown Athletic Club this year looks to be a fairly weak one from historical standards.

I continue to look at this post and realize just why Smith is running away with this thing right now. Who is special this year that stands out ahead of the pack? Petersen might have had a shot, but his team lost two games already.

There is also another month of football left. The mess will sort itself out by the time the regular season winds down and Dr. Pepper Championship games are played.

Don't forget, the guy who won it last year wasn't even getting the most carries on his own team as a running back. I'm not sure dominance and stats have anything to do with it anymore the way these pundits vote. You can have a good game against Fresno State that consists of some nifty Sportscenter highlights and win it.

And they surely are not looking at anyone's potential NFL earnings either. Hence Jason White having one Heisman and the Manning brothers having none.

I'm not sure how these guys vote, but they voted last year for the Player of the Game in the USC-Fresno State contest when they should have voted for the best player in America.

Justin Zwick's greatness. Paging Justin Zwick's greatness. Mr. Zwick, your table is now ready.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

Don't forget, the guy who won it last year wasn't even getting the most carries on his own team as a running back. I'm not sure dominance has anything to do with it anymore the way these pundits vote. You can have a good game against Fresno State that consists of some nifty Sportscenter highlights and win it.

Bush was more than one game though...he was a game breaker. And he was NOT a RB out of the backfield. Bush was the man you wanted to get the ball to anywhere on the field, so long as it gave him a 2 yard cushion.

He was 10x better than Lendale White.

I can't stand USC...but Bush was better than any Heisman candidate of the last 10 years.

 

[jerseyborn1971]

Dude, Smith is a great Pro prospect as well. That is probably the reason he is focusing on pocket passing this year. To prove to NFL scouts that he isn't your typical "Charlie Ward" type of player. And I have to say, his completion percentage is one of the best in the country, and he never runs.

Really, not much to argue about. And he has clearly played well against good defenses. I agree that a lot of that has to do with how great his receivers are. But you can't say ND has bad receivers/RB/tight end for the passing game.

If I voted based on their play up to this point, Smith wins. But there is still plenty of FB left.

Both will be pro quarterbacks next year.

Mel Kiper tends to disagree and he knows a little more than I do. He seems to think that Troy might be a second rounder at best. Whether he actually makes a squad is another story.

 

[NDAlumSon]

I'm not sure dominance and stats have anything to do with it anymore the way these pundits vote.

You're right.
The thing that bothers me about the Heisman is that there's no definition to it.
Ostensibly, it's defined as the "award to the most outstanding college football player."

The vagueness of that definition is mind boggling.
It's why I hate all those professional MVP awards.
Hell, you can engage in a debate about what the word "valuable" means just as easily as you can debate what the word "outstanding" means till the cows come home and you still will not be any closer to intellectual clarity.
Trust me, I've had this debate and it's unanswerable.
Not to mention unethical in team sport play.
It's like trying to invent the perpetual motion machine. IT CAN'T BE DONE !!!

I say screw it.
Give it to the damn water boys and girls for without them ALL athletes on the field of play would get thirsty, dehydrate, then eventually shrivel up and die.
So I ask you....Who is the most outstanding/valuable?

 

[jiggafini19]

Mel Kiper tends to disagree and he knows a little more than I do.

Don't be so sure, Jersey. I don't know if you give Kiper too much credit or not enough to yourself here. The guy thinks he is the Elvis Presley of Football.

He was 10x better than Lendale White.

Yet was not on the field for 4th down with an NC on the line. It was Vince Young's award, pre and post Rose Bowl. Leinart and White carried USC. Bush gave us neato video game like highlights on the 10 PM news.

Awards are made to give agents leverage in contract negotiations. The last thing I ever want is for any White Sox, Bulls or Bears to get elected to any kind of All Star Game or post season award. It drives their price up and then they go bye bye to a team that will pay them mo money, mo problems.

I compare Quinn and Smith side by side and wonder what the fuss is all about. We're comparing apples to apples.

 

[NDAlumSon]

BTW, just off the top of my head, from a pure passing standpoint my top five quarterback list would look something like this:
1) Erik Ainge
2) Colt Brennan
3) Nate Longshore
4) Colt McCoy
5) Brady Quinn

Now if there were a Winchester in college football, he most undoubtedly would be on this list.

 

[jiggafini19]

Erik Ainge

I'd keep an eye out for this guy right here.

 

[NDAlumSon]

Yup. What a damn shame that Cutty got sick.
Charlie definitely had that one right.
All to Erik's benefit as it turned out.