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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">New CBO report projects that the uninsured rate will rise by 3 million from 2018-2019 "mainly" due to repeal of the individual mandate penalty, and that ACA premiums will rise because of that and Trump chopping CSRs.<a href="https://t.co/FQxaa1z8fM">https://t.co/FQxaa1z8fM</a> <a href="https://t.co/wTxpli75pt">pic.twitter.com/wTxpli75pt</a></p>— Sahil Kapur (@sahilkapur) <a href="https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/999371169810800646?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 23, 2018</a></blockquote>
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Legacy

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The Coverage Gap: Uninsured Poor Adults in States that Do Not Expand Medicaid (Kaiser Family Foundation)

While millions of people have gained coverage through the expansion of Medicaid under the Affordable Care Act (ACA), state decisions not to implement the expansion leave many without an affordable coverage option. Under the ACA, Medicaid eligibility is extended to nearly all low-income individuals with incomes at or below 138 percent of poverty ($28,180 for a family of three in 20171). This expansion fills in historical gaps in Medicaid eligibility for adults and was envisioned as the vehicle for extending insurance coverage to low-income individuals, with premium tax credits for Marketplace coverage serving as the vehicle for covering people with moderate incomes. While the Medicaid expansion was intended to be national, the June 2012 Supreme Court ruling essentially made it optional for states. As of October 2017, 19 states had not expanded their programs.

Medicaid eligibility for adults in states that did not expand their programs is quite limited: the median income limit for parents in these states is just 44% of poverty, or an annual income of $8,985 a year for a family of three in 2017, and in nearly all states not expanding, childless adults remain ineligible.2 Further, because the ACA envisioned low-income people receiving coverage through Medicaid, it does not provide financial assistance to people below poverty for other coverage options. As a result, in states that do not expand Medicaid, many adults fall into a “coverage gap” of having incomes above Medicaid eligibility limits but below the lower limit for Marketplace premium tax credits (Figure 1).

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Maternal Health Care Is Disappearing in Rural America (Scientific American)

Many women must travel an hour or longer to find a hospital where they can deliver their babiesBy the time the pregnant woman arrived at the nearest hospital with a maternity ward—90 minutes after leaving her home in Winfield, Ala.—she was ready to deliver her baby. She made it just in time, recalls Dan Avery, an obstetrician–gynecologist who tended to patients in rural Alabama and elsewhere until his recent retirement. Too often, he says, patients are not so lucky. Some have ended up delivering on the side of the road. Winfield, located in the northwestern part of the state, does have its own hospital—but, like many rural hospitals, it no longer offers obstetrical services, Avery says, so women in labor must travel about 60 miles to Tuscaloosa. When hospital budgets get tight, Avery explains, obstetrical wards are often one of the first things to go.

The problem has metastasized across the state and the nation. In 1980, 45 of Alabama’s 54 rural counties had hospitals providing obstetrical services. Today only 16 of them offer such care, and doctors say that means many, many women need to drive an hour or more todeliver their babies or even get basic prenatal care from an ob–gyn. Too many women cannot make such a long monthly trek, so they simply do without. Others seek care from their family physicians.

Such extreme access problems lead to difficult decisions. Some women in Alabama preemptively choose caesarean section births because they fear they will not make it to the hospital in time, says Dale Quinney, executive director of the Alabama Rural Health Association. Although there have been no studies proving it, Quinney believes the access issue helps explain why his state has one of the country’s highest caesarean rates—35.4 percent of its births in 2015. (The national average was 32 percent that year).

The disappearing maternal care problem is common across rural America. Only about 6 percent of the nation’s ob–gyns work in rural areas, according to the latest survey numbers from the American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG). Yet 15 percent of the country’s population, or 46 million people, live in rural America. As a result, fewer than half of rural women live within a 30-minute drive of the nearest hospital offering obstetric services. Only about 88 percent of women in rural towns live within a 60-minute drive, and in the most isolated areas that number is 79 percent.

Maternal mortality is also significantly higher in rural areas. Scientific American analyzed public mortality data from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and found that in 2015 the maternal mortality rate in large central metropolitan areas was 18.2 per 100,000 live births—but in the most rural areas it was 29.4. Exactly why this happens is unclear. Underlying health conditions such as hypertension or diabetes could be factors, alongside poor prenatal care and geographic access. But the numbers are troubling, and the same trend holds true for infant mortality rates, according to the analysis of CDC figures.

New analysis from the University of Minnesota Rural Health Research Center puts the situation in dire terms: “More than two thirds of rural counties in Florida, Nevada and South Dakota have no in-county obstetrical services,” says one of the study’s authors, Carrie Henning-Smith, a research associate at the center. The analysis, which has not yet been published, finds that this was true from 2004 through 2014 (the latest year analyzed). That means these counties had absolutely no hospitals providing obstetrical care—forcing women to travel to other counties.

Unfortunately, family physicians are not moving in to fill these care gaps in high enough numbers. And the number of family physicians offering obstetrical services has dropped by half in recent years, although many still offer basic prenatal care: In the year 2000, 23 percent of family physicians offered obstetrics—but when they were surveyed in 2010 it was only about 10 percent.

Some women manage to cobble together a workaround. Maren Webb, who lives just outside Grand Marais, Minn. (population about 1,350) lives two hours from the nearest hospital that does planned deliveries (in Duluth, Minn.). In the five years that she lived and worked in the area before giving birth to her daughter in October, she had heard countless horror stories about women in labor in the back of ambulances on the way to Duluth or those who had to deliver in the emergency room at a local hospital. To avoid those fates she says she decided to “camp out” at her parent’s house—about half an hour from the hospital in Duluth—in the days ahead of her due date. Webb and her husband ended up staying with her parents for a week before she finally went into labor. “We were thankful that we had the option,” she says, but they wished they could have been at home, preparing for their newborn. Still, they were grateful she had not gone into labor early while they were still at home. Her family has a history of fast deliveries—two or three hours—she says, so she might not have made it to the hospital in time.

To understand how the U.S. got here is not a simple task. Rural health care in general has taken a hit in the past few decades as hospitals have closed and fewer doctors have sought to practice in rural areas. Eighty rural hospitals have been shuttered nationwide since 2010, and about a third of the country’s remaining rural facilities are vulnerable to closure as they continue to operate under tight margins, according to findings from the latest annual Rural Relevance Study. Half of Mississippi’s rural providers operate at a loss, for example, according to the report, which was presented last week at the annual National Rural Health Association (NRHA) conference in Washington, D.C. Rural communities, however, are in desperate need of care: They tend to be poorer, older and less healthy than their urban counterparts.

But obstetrics–gynecology care is particularly vulnerable because delivering a baby is such a pricey business, accounting for more than 5 percent of hospital costs . Why is it so expensive? Unlike a hip replacement, it is hard to anticipate exactly how long it will take to deliver a baby, so the number of nurses, doctors, surgeons and anesthesiologists that must be available throughout delivery adds up. Rural Americans are also less likely to be insured, and more likely to pay for their care using Medicaid—which reimburses doctors at lower rates than private insurance, making it difficult for doctors and hospitals to recover costs and make profits. Low birth volumes make the economics of obstetrical units harder still: Rural communities are generally graying, a demographic fact that reduces the number of births and makes it difficult for hospitals to financially justify having maternity wards at all. And when those wards cannot make adequate money, it leads to their shutdown.

The problem also has a multiplier effect. “It’s a quality of life issue. You don’t want to be the only ob–gyn in a 150-mile radius. You’d never sleep!” Michael Kennedy, associate dean for rural health education at the University of Kansas Medical Center said at the NRHA conference.

The blueprint for addressing the situation remains obtuse at best. Some medical schools think part of the solution is to train more doctors for rural work. The University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and Public Health is launching the nation’s first official obstetrics–gynecology residency program for “very rural” areas, with the first resident slated to be selected next month. “Increasing the physician workforce is important,” says Ellen Hartenbach, residency program director for the school’s Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology. “A large percentage of people practice in the same area after residency, so the theory behind our new training track is to get people training in the smaller communities and increase their exposure,” she says. (ACOG says about half of all residents practice in the state where they trained.)

There are already other ob–gyn residency programs in rural areas, Hartenbach says, and there are rural tracks in family medicine for doctors in other specialties. But official definitions of rural often just mean “not urban,” she says, and the Wisconsin residency program will make sure that communities considered “very rural”—those serving fewer than 20,000 people—will be the focus. “You would be hard-pressed to find that elsewhere,” she says.

Yet this is only one program, with only one resident expected for 2017. Rural health care advocates are also pushing for policy action to help fuel further changes and to incentivize work in rural America. The Improving Access to Maternity Care Act, which has already passed the House but has not yet been introduced in the Senate, would require further data collection by the Department of Health and Human Services about which geographical areas need these maternity care professionals and provide student loan forgiveness for ob-gyn work there—a benefit that is currently offered for dentists and primary care physicians in some underserved communities.

Telemedicine—offering online video call access to patients—for prenatal care could also be part of the solution, rural health experts say. But a lack of broadband internet access continues to keep that from becoming a reality in many rural areas in Alabama, says Hillary Beard, a legislative assistant for Rep. Terri Sewell (D–Ala.). “I don’t think this is unique to Alabama,” she says. “This is a problem for many rural areas.” And too often, she says, people in Sewell’s district report that they had to deliver on the side of the road because they could not make it to the hospital in time, she says.

Changing state laws to let certified nurse–midwives and nurse practitioners perform more clinical tasks might help, too, Henning-Smith says. But other cultural changes may be needed to really lure more clinicians to move to rural areas, she adds. One analysis she conducted found that rural areas—at least in the state she studied, Wisconsin—were less likely to offer child care services than their urban counterparts. That matters, of course, for working parents and their quality of life.

Yet, despite these widespread ob–gyn shortages, there is still little hard data on the long-term effects of these health access gaps. “We know a lot about the closures and about the workforce challenges, but we don’t really know how these things impact women and the health of their infants,” says Britta Anderson, a senior research scientist at NORC’s Walsh Center for Rural Health Analysis at the University of Chicago. “We need more data on if women who travel longer distances to get care suffer more negative outcomes—emotionally and physically.”

Webb, the new mother from Minnesota, says knowing about this potential harm—and reducing the burden of these distances—is essential. “No one has done this research about if these distances are increasing bad outcomes,” she says. The emotional burden, however, is apparent. “If the roads aren’t clear and there’s a blizzard, it could take a lot longer than two hours from my house—and that, too, adds to the stress,” she says. “You don’t want to have this extra stress when you are in labor! You want things to flow.”

Other factors also contribute to the shortage of Ob-Gyn providers in rural America -
- Ob-Gyn physicians preference to live in metropolitan areas,
- profitability of rural Ob-Gyn practices,
- potential for increased liability due to shortage with larger patient loads,
- more patients with uncontrolled comorbid conditions such as diabetes and hypertension
- loss of state medical residency and medical school certification, and
- aging of workforce (Ob-Gyns average retirement age is 51).

Factors that would worsen rural Ob-Gyn shortages would include:
- Loss of federal funding for physician shortage programs,
- cutbacks in Obamacare coverage and reimbursements,
- cutbacks in Medicaid
- increased unaffordability of premiums
- loss of clinics and hospitals serving rural health care

Increases in family practice physicians and in nurse midwives would help, but both are in decline in rural health care.

Iowa has the 2nd fewest OBGYN doctors in the U.S. The fetal heartbeat law could make it even worse, health experts warn (Iowa City Press Citizen)

The University of Iowa also fears that recruitment efforts will suffer, because students may not want to invest in a program that does not provide all of its training in one state, Elson said.

"Our maternal mortality rate is the highest of any developed country, and the OB-GYN community is trying to improve this terrible statistic," she said. "For the women of Iowa who already have poor access to maternity services — especially in rural areas — I’m just very, very concerned about the pipeline effect if our residency starts to have a damaged reputation."

The University of Iowa's OB-GYN residency is scheduled for a routine site visit from the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education this summer. If Iowa's law is upheld by the courts, the program could receive a citation.
W.Va. Women Lack Adequate Access to Prenatal Care

Nearly half of all U.S. counties currently lack a practicing ob-gyn. And it’s not looking like it’ll get better anytime soon. A recent projection by the American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists found the United States could face a shortage of 6,000 to 8,000 ob-gyns by 2020 and a shortage of 22,000 by 2050.
 
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Legacy

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Graduate Medical Educational Training and Accreditation

Graduate Medical Educational Training and Accreditation

The Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education (ACGME) is the body responsible for accrediting the majority of graduate medical training programs (i.e., internships, residencies, and fellowships, a.k.a. subspecialty residencies) for physicians in the United States. It is a non-profit private council that evaluates and accredits medical residency and internship programs. The ACGME was founded in 1981 and was preceded by the Liaison Committee for Graduate Medical Education, which was established in 1972.[1] The ACGME currently oversees the post-graduate education and training for all MD and the majority of DO physicians in the United States.[2] Plans call for the ACGME to oversee the Unified Accreditation System for all MDs and DOs in 2015.[3]

The ACGME's member organizations are the American Board of Medical Specialties, American Hospital Association, American Medical Association, Association of American Medical Colleges, and the Council of Medical Specialty Societies each of whom appoints four members to the ACGME's board of directors.
(Source)

Institutional Religious Policies That Follow Obstetricians and Gynecologists Into Practice (J. of Medical Education - J. of ACGME)

Religious Policies
The Ethical and Religious Directives for Catholic Health Care Services2 were written by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops to establish religious parameters around care in Catholic facilities. The religious policies prohibit contraception, sterilization, and abortion, and they can limit miscarriage management, pregnancy options counseling, and related referrals.3 This can produce practices that some physicians believe fall beneath the standard of care they were taught in residency training at non-Catholic institutions.1

These distinctions in policies and practice matter. In the United States, 1 in 6 patients is treated and 1 in 14 obstetricians and gynecologists is trained in Catholic hospitals. Catholic facilities have become a significant portion of our health care system. Several studies have documented the experiences of physicians who practice in Catholic hospitals, highlighting the constraints physicians felt on providing comprehensive reproductive health care within this setting.1,4–8 Few studies to date have documented the experiences of trainees in these institutions.9,10 The study by Guiahi et al,11 “Impact of Catholic Hospital Affiliation During Obstetrics and Gynecology Residency on the Provision of Family Planning,” in this issue of the Journal of Graduate Medical Education, expands our understanding of the effects on trainees and on their patients beyond residency training.

Training
Guiahi et al describe the postresidency effects of limited reproductive health training. They interviewed 15 obstetricians and gynecologists who had completed residency training at Catholic hospitals and now work in secular practices throughout the United States. Their data depict a bleak picture. While these physicians described satisfaction with training overall, they felt unable to meet both their patients' family planning and miscarriage care needs. For example, they described variable but limited contraceptive training, such as inadequate training in contraceptive implant and intrauterine device (IUD) placement. Some had never done a postpartum tubal ligation. Regarding care for women experiencing miscarriages, none of the interviewed physicians had training in outpatient removal of the pregnancy using manual vacuum aspiration, a safe option many women prefer over medical management or an operating room. As residents, some were not allowed to provide counseling to women to support decisions, if the counseling involved abortion. As residents, some could not refer women who chose an abortion. Although the study reported that some programs attempted to supplement training through didactic education and off-site experiences, graduates still felt training was inadequate. As a result, graduates often had to work to make up training deficits in the first year of practice.

Evidence suggests that residents who go to faith-based programs do not differ from residents who go to non–faith-based programs in terms of religious identification and attitudes about abortion.9 However, residents at faith-based programs are more likely to be disappointed with their family planning training.9 This article sheds light on the reasons for their dissatisfaction. First, residents did not choose these residency programs based on the religious policies. They chose programs based on location, other aspects of training, and faculty. Also, while residents were aware of the limitations in abortion training at Catholic hospitals, they were not consistently aware of the inadequacy of training in contraception, sterilization, and miscarriage management.

Opting Out of Training
We expect obstetricians and gynecologists to be competent to meet the reproductive health needs of all women, which include contraceptive counseling and care, management of pregnancy loss, pregnancy decision counseling, and abortion care. Even when obstetricians and gynecologists do not plan to provide abortions due to personal beliefs, the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists expects physicians to counsel women about pregnancy options, provide referrals for abortion care if desired, and safely perform an abortion in the case of an emergency if there is no one else available.12

The Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education (ACGME) requires all obstetrics and gynecology residency programs to include abortion training, to allow for individual residents to opt out of care, and to allow individual institutions to provide training outside of their hospitals.13 As of 2004, abortion training is routinely scheduled in half of the programs; this rate is up from 12% when the ACGME requirement went into effect in 1996.14 However, in 40% of programs, residents must seek out training opportunities on their own, and in 10% it is not available at all.14

While individual religious affiliation does correlate with intention to perform abortions after residency, choice of faith-based versus non–faith-based training program does not.15 Furthermore, the majority of those who opt out of abortion training want to be able to provide contraception care, sterilization, and uterine evacuation procedures for miscarriage.9,16,17 It is important for residents to understand that if they choose a faith-based program with restrictive policies, they may miss out on more than abortion training.


Benefits of Comprehensive Training
Ample evidence indicates that comprehensive family planning training in residency improves skills and patient-centered care. Studies have shown that residents who train at programs with integrated family planning training have greater experience and competence in contraception counseling, pregnancy decision counseling, contraception skills, first trimester and second trimester ultrasound skills, uterine evacuation techniques (applicable to miscarriage as well as abortion), management of analgesia and anesthesia during outpatient surgical procedures, and postabortion care.16,18,19 Studies have shown that even residents who opt out of abortion training, but spend time in a family planning clinic, benefit in all the ways described here, including learning uterine evacuation skills for management of pregnancy loss; the residents also rate the rotations highly.16,20,21


Innovation From Within
As described by Guiahi et al, some obstetrics and gynecology residency programs at Catholic hospitals work to ensure competence in these skills through didactics, experiences with tubal ligation after cesarean section for women with medical problems, and progestin IUD placement for women with noncontraceptive indications. Some programs also offer opportunities for off-site training. As the graduates reported in the study by Guiahi and colleagues, these strategies alone may not be sufficient.

Innovative programs have been created to improve the training quality in faith-based training programs. For example, Teaching Everything About Contraceptive Health, a 1-day educational program that includes simulation, has reported improved knowledge among residents.22 Additionally, we were excited to see an abstract by Fennimore,23 presented at the 2017 CREOG & APGO annual meeting, which described a collaboration between St Joseph Hospital (a Catholic hospital–based residency program) and the University of Colorado to provide routine family planning training for St Joseph residents.

We hope that faith-based hospitals with restrictive family planning policies continue to create solutions to guarantee adequate training of graduates. Programs should integrate existing, evidence-based, online resources into training, such as those available from Innovating Education in Reproductive Health (IERH), Training in Early Abortion for Comprehensive Healthcare (TEACH), Physicians for Reproductive Health, and others.24–26 They might consider using the IERH or TEACH simulation resources for procedural skills training and require didactic curricular content on all sites to ensure competence in medical knowledge. Best practices specific to residency programs at restrictive religious hospitals should be developed to help program directors meet ACGME requirements while respecting institutional policies.

Additionally, obstetrics and gynecology leaders, faculty, residents, and students in these programs should advocate for high-quality, patient-centered care that respects patients' rights and autonomy. These efforts would ensure not only that women cared for in these hospitals receive high-quality care but also that women for whom their graduates provide care in the future receive the best care.

Clarification on Requirements Regarding Family Planning
and Contraception: Review Committee for Obstetrics and Gynecology
(ACGME)

Clarification of Program Requirement: IV.A.6.d).(1)-(3)
The ACGME accredits graduate medical education programs. It establishes and maintains
accreditation standards (Program Requirements) that reflect the practice of medicine in each specialty, as well as the program resources necessary to educate physicians in all elements of each specialty.

In the past, consistent with its role as an educational accreditor, the ACGME has not stated a “pro” or “con” position on pending legislation addressing state funding of family planning and elective abortion. Instead, it has responded to government inquiries relating to the potential accreditation effect of such pending legislation. It will continue to do this.
The ACGME Review Committee for Obstetrics and Gynecology examines each obstetrics and
gynecology residency program’s curriculum on contraception, family planning, and abortion to
determine its substantial compliance with the above requirements. All programs must have an
established curriculum for family planning, including for complications of abortions and
provisions for the opportunity for direct procedural training in terminations of pregnancy for
those residents who desire it.

Access to experience with induced abortion must be part of residency education. Programs with
restrictions to the provision of family planning services or the performance of abortions at their
institutions must make arrangements for such resident training to occur at another institution.
Programs must allow residents to “opt out” rather than “opt in” to this curriculum, education, and
training.

For those residents who do not desire to participate in an aspect of family planning training, the
program must allow them to “opt out” of this experience. Even if no residents have requested
the family planning experience or procedural training, the Committee would consider a program
with an “opt out” curriculum to be in substantial compliance with the requirements.

If a program does not have a specific family planning curriculum that includes direct procedural
training in abortions, this may prevent a resident from acquiring desired competency in family
planning and uterine evacuation techniques. In this situation, there would be no structured
curriculum or experience in the program, unless it is requested by and developed for a resident
desiring training. Such a program would be considered to have an “opt in” curriculum, and the
Committee would find this program to be non-compliant with the requirements.

States which have banned public funding for their medical residencies' family planning programs that teach abortion techniques include: Arizona, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania and Texas. Their programs are at risk of being non-compliant. Those programs directors are concerned that losing that certification will limit med school graduates applications and Ob-Gyns who chose to stay within the state after residency. Wisconsin legislature is also considering such a bill. These states' medical schools Ob-Gyn programs could lose their accreditation. To preserve theirs, The University of Iowa is considering opening a clinic where their residents can train in these techniques in Illinois. The estimated cost would be $800-900,000.

This Wisconsin School Could Lose Its OB-GYN Accreditation For A Disappointing Reason

According to Robert Golden, the university's medical school dean, in order to maintain national accreditation for OB-GYN training, UW-Madison must provide abortion training. "This simple act will clearly lead to the loss of accreditation, but the damage will go far beyond the residency program," he said.

Without this training, residency students would be pushed to find accredited schools in other states. This would be a serious issue for Wisconsin, as the American Medical Society reports that 20 of Wisconsin’s 72 counties already lack an accredited OB-GYN.
 
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Irish YJ

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Maternal Health Care Is Disappearing in Rural America (Scientific American)



Other factors also contribute to the shortage of Ob-Gyn providers in rural America -
- Ob-Gyn physicians preference to live in metropolitan areas,
- profitability of rural Ob-Gyn practices,
- potential for increased liability due to shortage with larger patient loads,
- more patients with uncontrolled comorbid conditions such as diabetes and hypertension
- loss of state medical residency and medical school certification, and
- aging of workforce (Ob-Gyns average retirement age is 51).

Factors that would worsen rural Ob-Gyn shortages would include:
- Loss of federal funding for physician shortage programs,
- cutbacks in Obamacare coverage and reimbursements,
- cutbacks in Medicaid
- increased unaffordability of premiums
- loss of clinics and hospitals serving rural health care

Increases in family practice physicians and in nurse midwives would help, but both are in decline in rural health care.

Iowa has the 2nd fewest OBGYN doctors in the U.S. The fetal heartbeat law could make it even worse, health experts warn (Iowa City Press Citizen)


W.Va. Women Lack Adequate Access to Prenatal Care

Not arguing that an increase in rural health care wouldn't help..... But I don't pin that as a primary driver to mortality. While we're not the best in OECD countries, the numbers have continued to drop, even if that drop has slowed. All while having one of the highest rate of teenage pregnancy and a growing instance of pregnancies over 35, both of which are factors to mortality. Add to that the US ranks very high in drug and alcohol abuse, as well as obesity all of which are big factors too. If you normalized those factors out (teen/35+, drugs/alcohol, obesity), I think the OECD stats would be very competitive.
 

SonofOahu

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I like capitalism, but healthcare should not be an "industry"... this isn't complicated, but it's not getting fixed as long as insurance and pharma lobbyists control legislation.

This. I do have a "but," however:

One of reasons our healthcare is so expensive is because we push for the newest technology/drug/procedure, and those new toys create an upward spiral of spending. Yes, it's partly because the drug/product companies push whatever new items they have (probably still on patent-protection,) but really it's because there's a certain amount of lazy-thinking on the part of both consumers and providers that newer = better outcome.

The US is also a cash-cow for companies. This allows these companies to then take risks in places that can't afford their stuff. Want anti-HIV drugs in Africa? Well, sell a bunch of crap to the US, then sell (or donate) these drugs to the African nations who clearly can't afford to provide their people with the complex cocktail of medications it takes. A lot of these places can't even afford clean linens, there's no way they're purchasing antivirals.
 

Irish YJ

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People can argue over "life expectancy" to be an imperfect measure of healthcare effectiveness (is there a perfect one? probably not)... but the undeniable take away from that chart is WE'RE PAYING DOUBLE and it's not even on par with other developed countries.

I like capitalism, but healthcare should not be an "industry"... this isn't complicated, but it's not getting fixed as long as insurance and pharma lobbyists control legislation.

This. I do have a "but," however:

One of reasons our healthcare is so expensive is because we push for the newest technology/drug/procedure, and those new toys create an upward spiral of spending. Yes, it's partly because the drug/product companies push whatever new items they have (probably still on patent-protection,) but really it's because there's a certain amount of lazy-thinking on the part of both consumers and providers that newer = better outcome.

The US is also a cash-cow for companies. This allows these companies to then take risks in places that can't afford their stuff. Want anti-HIV drugs in Africa? Well, sell a bunch of crap to the US, then sell (or donate) these drugs to the African nations who clearly can't afford to provide their people with the complex cocktail of medications it takes. A lot of these places can't even afford clean linens, there's no way they're purchasing antivirals.

LAX is spot on here.
I like capitalism a lot, but healthcare should not be part of it. We pay almost double for treatment and drugs compared to other Western countries. Medicare can't even negotiate drug pricing... Admin costs are 25% of total which is crazy. Referrals, over treatment, over mixing, and defensive treatment are real problems. And if you're going to have national health care, you don't need insurance companies as an in between worthless layer to money grab. Global drug companies bend the US over without a courtesy reach around, and sell their goods at half price or less to the rest of the world.
 

Legacy

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Not arguing that an increase in rural health care wouldn't help..... But I don't pin that as a primary driver to mortality. While we're not the best in OECD countries, the numbers have continued to drop, even if that drop has slowed. All while having one of the highest rate of teenage pregnancy and a growing instance of pregnancies over 35, both of which are factors to mortality. Add to that the US ranks very high in drug and alcohol abuse, as well as obesity all of which are big factors too. If you normalized those factors out (teen/35+, drugs/alcohol, obesity), I think the OECD stats would be very competitive.

You have mentioned a few of the risk factors that put mothers into the high risk pregnancy category, where they are normally handled by Ob-Gyns and not Family Physicians except in shortage areas. There's a distinction between a risk factor and a "factor to mortality". With appropriate intervention and monitoring throughout pregnancy, those risk factors like advanced maternal age, lifestyle choices like smoking, alcohol use and substance abuse, medical conditions, previous surgeries, etc. can be managed and result in a healthy baby and mom.

Factors that can lessen infant mortality include annual exams to identify and control any medical conditions and institute lifestyle changes prior to pregnancy, on proper nutrition during pregnancy, and managing complications that may arise during the pregnancy in a timely manner.

What negatively affects all of these is a shortage of physicians - primary and, in pregnancy, Ob-Gyns, nurse midwives and lack of hospitals and clinics within reasonable distance. This is one reason why rural areas may have higher infant mortality. Should one want to address a couple other risk factors, drug treatment centers and family planning clinics would help.

The federal and state governments designate physician shortage areas for both general practice as well as specialties like Ob-Gyn.
Here's an Ob-Gyn shortage map by county for Nebraska, a mostly rural state.

Infant mortality is highest in rural areas vs urban areas.
Infant Mortality Rates by State

As far as infant mortality, the U.S. has 6 per 100,000 births. Among the thirty-five OECD countries, the U.S. ranks fourth worst with only Mexico (13), Turkey (11) and Chile (7) are higher. Thirty-one OECD countries have lower infant mortality rates.
Mortality rate, infant (per 1,000 live births) - OECD countries (Click on OECD members link at the bottom)

Did you know that the U.S. has the highest rate of maternal deaths in the developed world?

With the highest maternal mortality and the fourth highest infant mortality in OECD countries, we've got a way to go to achieve what most other OECD countries have attained.
 
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Irish YJ

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You have mentioned a few of the risk factors that put mothers into the high risk pregnancy category, where they are normally handled by Ob-Gyns and not Family Physicians except in shortage areas. There's a distinction between a risk factor and a "factor to mortality". With appropriate intervention and monitoring throughout pregnancy, those risk factors like advanced maternal age, lifestyle choices like smoking, alcohol use and substance abuse, medical conditions, previous surgeries, etc. can be managed and result in a healthy baby and mom.

Factors that can lessen infant mortality include annual exams to identify and control any medical conditions and institute lifestyle changes prior to pregnancy, on proper nutrition during pregnancy, and managing complications that may arise during the pregnancy in a timely manner.

What negatively affects all of these is a shortage of physicians - primary and, in pregnancy, Ob-Gyns, nurse midwives and lack of hospitals and clinics within reasonable distance. This is one reason why rural areas may have higher infant mortality. Should one want to address a couple other risk factors, drug treatment centers and family planning clinics would help.

The federal and state governments designate physician shortage areas for both general practice as well as specialties like Ob-Gyn.
Here's an Ob-Gyn shortage map by county for Nebraska, a mostly rural state.

Infant mortality is highest in rural areas vs urban areas.
Infant Mortality Rates by State

As far as infant mortality, the U.S. has 6 per 100,000 births. Among the thirty-five OECD countries, the U.S. ranks fourth worst with only Mexico (13), Turkey (11) and Chile (7) are higher. Thirty-one OECD countries have lower infant mortality rates.
Mortality rate, infant (per 1,000 live births) - OECD countries (Click on OECD members link at the bottom)

Did you know that the U.S. has the highest rate of maternal deaths in the developed world?

With the highest maternal mortality and the fourth highest infant mortality in OECD countries, we've got a way to go to achieve what most other OECD countries have attained.

Here's the point, the US has a problem with personal choice. Obesity, drugs and alcohol, tobacco, teen pregnancy, etc.. Having more doctors might help reduce deaths, but it's like applying a band aid to a stab wound. I'm tired of hearing we need more funding, more this, and more that, instead of talking about the problems themselves. Today's culture and progressive ideologies spend zero effort addressing personal accountability.

All those things I listed, the US ranks high in across the OECD countries. So let's talk about why we rank worst in personal choice across those countries.

And.... if you normalize those out of the equation (assume we are competitive in personal accountability), what do our mortality rates look like.

I'm pretty far left in health (see earlier post), but I'm far left without turning a blind eye on personal accountability. Telling everyone it's not their fault, the government needs to fix it, we need to raise taxes to combat poor decision making, etc. is something I'm not willing to buy into. Doing that and not holding people accountable is simply idiotic, grows government reliance, and increases the trend of bad personal choice.

Going back to rural vs urban, I won't ignore the difference or the need. But the US is not the only dealing with the difference. It's hard to find any data on other countries, but Canada looks to have the same challenge. From a geographical (large) and population density perspective, I'd say the only fair countries to compare are CA, MX, and Australia.
 

Legacy

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YJ,
You are missing the point. There's no increase in government programs here. The CDC with its pregnancy risk assessment and infant and maternal complicatons and mortality monitoring has not had a budget increase in years. I'm talking about the best way to deliver health care to mothers and babies and the challenges to that. We're failing at that in comparison to the rest of the world. People in health care are working very hard to educate and change behaviors and encourage people to make positive changes. States work very hard to retain the physicians that graduate from their residencies to physician shortage areas with incentives and loan forgivenesses. Those states are also often cutting their budgets, but recognize that appropriate early intervention, monitoring of pregnancies, and addressing high risk pregnancies with specialists saves money in avoiding infant and maternal deaths, extended stays for premature infants in Intensive Care Units, transfers to hospitals and controlling medical conditions over the long-term. These are real world situations and problems that states and health care personnel have to address practically.

I don't know how you would "hold accountable" a pregnant mother with diabetes and hypertension in a rural area who has not had health insurance and has poor nutrition due to low income. This is a practical situation not conservative or a progressive or a left or right. Would you take away her federal health insurance so that the costs for her care shift to state taxpayers and their hospitals?

I gave you links so you could compare the states - Nebraska, who have a Midwestern diet much like the South, to Ohio, which has an opioid problem, West Virginia and Kentucky, who have smoking problems, or any other challenge each state may be confronting. That provides you with percentages for all of the health measurements you may be interested in. If you are into blaming, you can better target each state's citizens for their lack of personal accountability. Or you can see how they have improved - or not - from the last analysis. Health care systems have seen that prevention saves money and have invested large sums in disease education with patients, followups in offices or at homes, video conferencing, hotlines, home care. Education and early interventions do save lots of money. We certainly do not deny that standard of care to pregnant mothers.

Yes, if we did not have any risk factors that put mothers in high risk categories, we would have improved mortality statistics. Yes, normal pregnancies have much lower infant and maternal mortalities. Are those thirty-one developed countries in the OECD, who have better infant mortality rates than us, have no mothers in high-risk pregnancy risk factors? I doubt all thirty-one countries with lower infant mortalities have patients with the "personal accountability" you want. So to me that's comparing apples and oranges unless you want to also eliminate those same factors from other countries stats, too.

We all wish every one of us made healthy choices all the time. The physician/provider shortages in many areas and how the Ob-Gyn and nurse midwife shortages affect maternal care and mortalities, especially in rural areas, is an issue.
 
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Irish YJ

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Legacy,
My points are simple.

The US leads or are in the top 5% of countries in issues that have clear causal relationships to infant mortality.

Those issues are personal choice issues. While doctors do their best to educate on those issues, and mitigate, it's often times too late by the time the person is pregnant.

The articles out there take more time blaming the US health care system and gov (for lack of funding) and fail to discuss the underlying problems.

If we as a country spent more time working on those issues instead of masking them, we would not be trailing the OECD countries.

While you say it's not about taxes, or increasing funding, you mention funding in your original post. In our system, right or wrong, capitalism is a driver with hospitals, and where care professionals reside. When that happens, 9 times out of 10, your talking about gov subsidy/funding as the answer.

It's hard to find data on other OECD countries when it comes to rural vs urban, but if you have it, I'd love to see it. Again, the US is larger than most of the OECD countries, so most interested in seeing how Canada and Australia look. Russia and MX would be relevant from a size and density perspective as well.
 

Legacy

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YJ,
There's decades of work on behavior change for chronic disease management and in health care investment by hospitals and systems at their own expense. Also, with health insurance criteria for admissions from CMS which private insurers follow and restrictions on readmissions in thirty days after a discharge, hospitals have found savings in targeting people with chronic diseases and investing in case management. The Affordable Care Act requires systems outreach to their communities in programs, which also saves a lot of money and improves lives. Reimbursement for admissions has strict criteria and limits by all health insurance companies, so providing care at the appropriate levels in the health care system outside of the ER, hospitalizations, etc and early interventions has been the goals for years. There's lot of information about chronic diseases and about behavior change out there. Lots of info about mortalities in different countries from those chronic diseases and well as which ones including rates of overweight/obesity, too. I don't think you have a good grasp on health care reimbursement and how mistaken you are in thinking hospitals are driven by "capitalism" as if they can charge more, admit as many patients as they feel like and for whatever reason. You are only correct about that in connection with the private parts of our health care system, specifically health insurance companies.

I think you would benefit from a great health care source - Kaiser Family Foundation - and the links I've provided from them in this thread. I wasn't intending to do this but here's the results for a Search on the KFF site on terms "Chronic Diseases" . There's good articles on chronic diseases in Modern Healthcare, too - maybe even in other countries. I do recognize that, in the end, the choice is yours.
 
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Irish YJ

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YJ,
There's decades of work on behavior change for chronic disease management and in health care investment by hospitals and systems at their own expense. Also, with health insurance criteria for admissions from CMS which private insurers follow and restrictions on readmissions in thirty days after a discharge, hospitals have found savings in targeting people with chronic diseases and investing in case management. The Affordable Care Act requires systems outreach to their communities in programs, which also saves a lot of money and improves lives. Reimbursement for admissions has strict criteria and limits by all health insurance companies, so providing care at the appropriate levels in the health care system outside of the ER, hospitalizations, etc and early interventions has been the goals for years. There's lot of information about chronic diseases and about behavior change out there. Lots of info about mortalities in different countries from those chronic diseases and well as which ones including rates of overweight/obesity, too. I don't think you have a good grasp on health care reimbursement and how mistaken you are in thinking hospitals are driven by "capitalism" as if they can charge more, admit as many patients as they feel like and for whatever reason. You are only correct about that in connection with the private parts of our health care system, specifically health insurance companies.

I think you would benefit from a great health care source - Kaiser Family Foundation - and the links I've provided from them in this thread. I wasn't intending to do this but here's the results for a Search on the KFF site on terms "Chronic Diseases" . There's good articles on chronic diseases in Modern Healthcare, too - maybe even in other countries. I do recognize that, in the end, the choice is yours.

The initial point at it's most basic is that we have personal choice issues, more so than other nations. Healthcare is not the only answer for personal choice issues. Healthcare studies are great, but they don't fix the degradation of community and family structure. They don't stop the ever increasing social programs (I'm not talking medical programs) which gives fish instead of teaching to fish. I get it, HC is your gig, but there are broader things outside of HC that need to change.
 

Legacy

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S.1112 - Maternal Health Accountability Act of 2017 (Congress.gov)

Excerpt:
This Act may be cited as the “Maternal Health Accountability Act of 2017”.

SEC. 2. FINDINGS; PURPOSES.

(a) Findings.—Congress finds the following:

(1) The United States is ranked 50th globally for its maternal mortality rate, and it is one of eight countries in which the maternal mortality rate has been on the rise.

(2) In recent studies, the estimated maternal mortality rate in the United States increased by approximately 26.6 percent from 2000 to 2014, with the rate increasing in nearly all States. This reported increase, along with no improvement in previous years, remains a source of great concern for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), health care providers, and patient advocates such as the American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, the Association of Women’s Health, Obstetric, and Neonatal Nurses, and the Preeclampsia Foundation.

(3) Maternal deaths in the United States result from pregnancy-related causes such as hemorrhage, hypertensive disease and preeclampsia, embolic disease, sepsis, and substance use disorder and overdose, and violent causes such as motor vehicle accidents, homicide, and suicide.

(4) As of 2017, less than 25 States conduct systematic reviews of maternal deaths and/or have standing maternal mortality review committees in order to develop the data needed to work toward management and solutions.

(5) Review of pregnancy-related and pregnancy-associated deaths is essential to determining strategies for developing prevention efforts and quality improvement and quality control programs. The United States must identify at-risk populations and understand how to support them to make pregnancy and the postpartum period safer.

(6) The most severe complications of pregnancy, generally referred to as severe maternal morbidity (SMM), affect more than 65,000 women in the United States every year. The CDC uses ICD–9–CM codes, which indicate a potentially life-threatening maternal condition or complication, to define SMM.

(7) Data from the CDC shows Black women are three times more likely to die from complications of pregnancy or childbirth than White women: 42.8 Black women per 100,000 live births, as opposed to 12.5 White women and 17.3 women of other races.

(8) The CDC recommends that maternal deaths be investigated through State collaboratives. These State collaboratives would bring together leaders in obstetric and neonatal health care from private, academic, and public health care settings to make recommendations for preventing pregnancy-related and pregnancy-associated deaths and health complications and identify ways to improve quality of care for women and infants.

(9) A few States, including California, have worked to develop and strengthen maternal morbidity and mortality review systems and utilize data to reduce maternal deaths and injuries to address leading issues such as maternal hemorrhage, hypertension and preeclampsia, and health and racial disparities.

(b) Purposes.—The purposes of this Act are the following:

(1) To establish a shared responsibility between States and the Federal Government to identify opportunities for improvement in quality of care and system changes, and to educate and inform health institutions and professionals, women, and families about preventing pregnancy-related and pregnancy-associated deaths and complications and reducing disparities.

(2) To develop a model for States and Federally recognized Indian tribes and tribal organizations to operate maternal mortality reviews and assess the various factors that may have contributed to maternal mortality, including quality of care, racial disparities, and systemic problems in the delivery of health care, and to develop appropriate interventions to reduce and prevent such deaths.
 

dublinirish

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Happy 70th birthday to the NHS! I moved to the UK 4 yrs ago after 4 decades using US health care. Was amazed at how easily I registered my family at our local GP. Quality care, free at point of use & £8 for prescriptions? Shocking to an American. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NHS70?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NHS70</a></p>— rob delaney (@robdelaney) <a href="https://twitter.com/robdelaney/status/1014792327926308864?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 5, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


interesting thread
 

MJ12666

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Happy 70th birthday to the NHS! I moved to the UK 4 yrs ago after 4 decades using US health care. Was amazed at how easily I registered my family at our local GP. Quality care, free at point of use & £8 for prescriptions? Shocking to an American. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NHS70?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NHS70</a></p>— rob delaney (@robdelaney) <a href="https://twitter.com/robdelaney/status/1014792327926308864?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 5, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


interesting thread

He and Theresa May must be the only ones happy with NHS' performance.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/03/world/europe/uk-national-health-service.html
 

MJ12666

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Some old co-workers and xpats were both pro and con. They said it (long waits and shortage of doctors) depends where you live to. They all hate the 9% tax though.

I remember speaking with a family friend last year. She and her family lived in the UK for a couple of years and she told me a story about how one of her kids sustained some type of injury. I wish I could remember the details but it was a long time ago when she told us the story, but I can I remember she was not happy with the care. From what I have read the system is great if you are reasonably healthy.
 

Irish YJ

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I remember speaking with a family friend last year. She and her family lived in the UK for a couple of years and she told me a story about how one of her kids sustained some type of injury. I wish I could remember the details but it was a long time ago when she told us the story, but I can I remember she was not happy with the care. From what I have read the system is great if you are reasonably healthy.

It's definitely not perfect. The biggest thing people were unhappy with was lack of choice/options. You pretty much get the doctor you get, and have limited treatment options. But it does cover everyone and just about all prescriptions are like 10 or 15 bucks.

The doctors and nurses really hate it from what I've heard. The US doctors would flip their shit.
 

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According to a new report from CMS (Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, Health and Human Services), about a million people dropped health insurance coverage in the individual market plans in 2017, the latest figures available.

These are people who do not qualify for subsidies termed advance premium tax credits (APTC). At the same time, premiums increased by an average of 21%, effectively pricing those without subsidies out of the market. Individuals making $48,000 a year pay full price. Non-APTC enrollment declined in 43 states, with six states losing over 40 percent of their non-APTC enrollment.

As noted before, Trump's executive actions that "gutted Obamacare" led to health insurance companies raising those rates as direct payments to them for coverage of high risk/use patients were eliminated and actions that eliminated the individual mandate resulted in more low risk people exiting the plans. Trump has introduced association health plans and short term duration plans with bare bones coverages, which may further negatively impact the individual market premiums. The CBO has estimated those two actions will raise insurance prices by 10%.

As premiums have risen, those who qualify for APTCs see very little changes in their costs, as the federal government picks up the increases. But it also means that more people who did not qualify for them are now qualifying according to HHS's complicated formula for eligibility.

Yet a new study for 2019 premiums in states by the Kaiser Family Foundation shows only single digits increases for many states. Some of those states obtained waivers to self-insure And all counties in the U.S. have at least one health insurer. Insurers overall are now seeing profits after losses in the first few years of Obamacare. From that study:
This analysis looks at preliminary lowest-cost bronze, second lowest-cost silver, and lowest-cost gold premiums in the 50 states and the District of Columbia. (Our analyses from 2018, 2017, 2016, 2015, and 2014 examined changes in premiums and participation in these states and major cities since the exchange markets opened nearly four years ago.) The second lowest-cost silver plan serves as the benchmark for premium tax credits (which subsidize premiums for low and modest income exchange enrollees) and is the only plan that offers reduced cost sharing for lower-income enrollees. About 63% of marketplace enrollees are in silver plans this year, and 29% are enrolled in bronze plans.

Minnesota, which was granted a waiver to reinsure themselves under the Obama Administration lowering the premiums for their citizens, gave out state subsidies for health insurance. Their rebate program funded by their savings in self-reinsurancing saved their residents an average of 25% on their premiums. Minnesota premiums for all plans are expected to decrease. The Trump administration is not granting those reinsurance waivers to other states. Those states' citizens pay about 20% more in their individual premiums. (Oklahoma, Iowa, Wisconsin and others) . Minnesota has sued the Trump administration over the stoppage of payments to health insurance companies.

However, the Trump administration may further erode the individual marketplace by allowing insurance companies to raise rates for those with pre-existing conditions. One in four Americans have pre-existing conditions. The top five states with the highest populations with pre-existing conditions are West Va, Mississippi, Kentucky, Alabama and Tennessee. (Only Kentucky and WV expanded Medicaid)

The Coverage Gap: Uninsured Poor Adults in States that Do Not Expand Medicaid

Kaiser Health Tracking Poll – June 2018: Campaigns, Pre-Existing Conditions, and Prescription Drug Ads
 
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Irishize

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Curious how many folks on this thread would prefer national healthcare over their current policy. I suspect it depends on one’s situation...especially in regards to health.

One thing for sure, you don’t have to speak to too many folks nowadays before one tells you they have some kind of auto-immune disorder. It could be Crohn’s Disease, Rheumatoid Arthritis, Lupus, Hashimoto’s Disease, Guillome Barré, etc. And there’s other hard-to-treat disorders that can’t rely on a physician who doesn’t treat medicine as both an art & a science. A lot of these folks have to try multiple physicians before finding one who can get to the root of their disorder.

I can’t imagine the further frustration those folks would endure in a nationalized healthcare system. Not saying the one we have is the best but I think there’s merits to both sides.
 

Legacy

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Curious how many folks on this thread would prefer national healthcare over their current policy. I suspect it depends on one’s situation...especially in regards to health.

One thing for sure, you don’t have to speak to too many folks nowadays before one tells you they have some kind of auto-immune disorder. It could be Crohn’s Disease, Rheumatoid Arthritis, Lupus, Hashimoto’s Disease, Guillome Barré, etc. And there’s other hard-to-treat disorders that can’t rely on a physician who doesn’t treat medicine as both an art & a science. A lot of these folks have to try multiple physicians before finding one who can get to the root of their disorder.

I can’t imagine the further frustration those folks would endure in a nationalized healthcare system. Not saying the one we have is the best but I think there’s merits to both sides.

There are a number of factors that physicians who would construct the ideal health care program have. They indirectly highlight their difficulties with any current system and proposals and objections. Some factors from an older article:

A National Health Program for the United States: A Physicians' Proposal (1989)

On a single payer system:

Statement of Dr. Marcia Angell introducing the U.S. National Health Insurance Act
(Addresses the myths of a single payer system, 2016)

Key Features of Single-Payer
(2003)

Special interests who benefit mightily from the current system have vigorously opposed this for decades.

In general, physicians are opposed to all the changes the Reps want to make - eliminating subsidies, decreasing coverage, eliminating Medicaid, block grants to the states, different reimbursement amounts to mention a few. With one out of every four patients on Medicaid, for instance, that indicates the increasing levels of the low income group in the U.S.

The immunological diseases are not hard to treat and there are specific tests and markers that would indicate the diagnosis. Mostly, biologics are used nowadays with good results, but may need follow-up by specialists. Co-existing diseases that may have similar symptoms can complicate the diagnosis.

Perhaps some of the links in the first post on this topic may help for overviews.
 
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dublinirish

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It's definitely not perfect. The biggest thing people were unhappy with was lack of choice/options. You pretty much get the doctor you get, and have limited treatment options. But it does cover everyone and just about all prescriptions are like 10 or 15 bucks.

The doctors and nurses really hate it from what I've heard. The US doctors would flip their shit.

you guys forget the system is two tiered. those who can afford private health can pay for it themselves/through their employers. this level of care is obviously much better than public that everyone gets.
 

Irish YJ

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you guys forget the system is two tiered. those who can afford private health can pay for it themselves/through their employers. this level of care is obviously much better than public that everyone gets.

I thought less than 10% of Brits had private?
 

dublinirish

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I thought less than 10% of Brits had private?

most folks will say they dont need to. the NHS approval ratings are at their lowest since they have been recorded in the 1980's but its still around 70%
 

Irish YJ

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most folks will say they dont need to. the NHS approval ratings are at their lowest since they have been recorded in the 1980's but its still around 70%

Do they get a tax refund, or credit if they elect private HC?
 
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I would strongly encourage everyone to take 1 hour of their time to watch "Sick Across the World" if they haven't already. It's on Netflix I believe.

It identifies the ~5 different health care systems across the world, and spends ~10 minutes going through what it's like and how it works. Extremely eye-opening IMO.
 

Irish YJ

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I would strongly encourage everyone to take 1 hour of their time to watch "Sick Across the World" if they haven't already. It's on Netflix I believe.

It identifies the ~5 different health care systems across the world, and spends ~10 minutes going through what it's like and how it works. Extremely eye-opening IMO.

So what did Koon glean from it?

And reps, gonna take a look at it this weekend.
 
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