Has our team quit?

[Moostache]

My oh my the room on this bandwagon is approaching "spacious" and "roomy" status again....I think I have plenty of leg room over here now...



I will take my lumps (figuratively...I am just a middle-aged fan and not on the field obviously) with this team; and if Weis is unable to motivate them to get mad now, then he is not the man to lead the program and his tenure will come to a crashing end with another USC blowout loss in November of 2008.

I think a lot of the angst this season still stems from last season's disappointing end. After the Army game, ND stood at 10-1 a year ago heading into a clash with USC for a remote shot at the MNC - true that the Michigan debacle really made that ultra-remote, but it was still in the back of many fans minds if not on their tongues. The team was over-rated at the beginning of the season, failed to live up to unreasonable expectations and then was doing things with smoke and mirrors (MSU, UCLA) but there they sat at 10-1.

Then the team gets beat down at USC (although to consider it a true 20-point loss - at least on the same level as what we are seeing now anyway, which the scoreboard read without considering the final USC TD came on a returned onside kick attempt making it sound worse than it really was). True, ND was not very competitive in that game, but they did play with the missing ingredient this year - HEART.

The first-half of the Sugar Bowl also showed some fire and fight, coming back from 14-0 to tie the game at 14-14 and actually running the ball against the all-universe LSU defense to boot - at least until surrendering the late TD drive to end the first half. The second half was a preview of this year's house of horrors and the team lost then what I have yet to see them get back - HEART!

I have seen this before....the 2002 St. Louis Rams. They lost the SB to NE and came out the following season to start 0-5. The team lost more than a game in the Super Bowl that year, they and the coaches lost heart and couldn't get it back until it was too late....Well in the NFL, teams get a shot at the playoffs, but in college the season for ND is really over for all intents and purposes with the second loss of a season. Everything else is meaningless exhibitions and building for the future....does any self-respecting Irish fan enter a season honestly WANTING to become the champions of the Gator Bowl or god-forbid the Poulian-Weed-eater Bowl again???

No, this season was lost at Happy Valley when first and goal at the 7 after Zibby's PR was not enough to cut a 17-7 lead down to 17-14...from that point on this season became a lost cause aside from building for the future.

The crossroads is now reached. Michigan was at theirs a week ago and ND's own ineptitude in the first quarter ensured that they would right their ship (no matter how momentarily it turns out for them in the long run - that UM team is still destined for a 4 or 5 loss season in my view), but at least the UM players showed some HEART.

Prior to the ND game, the UM program sat very much where ND is this week. A national laughingstock and punchline. Coming off back to back horror show losses and an epic beating at the hands of a not very good Oregon team. Well, in true ND fashion, they have upped the ante on Michigan yet again and gone one better...3 straight horror shows. I refuse to believe that the ND team is composed of young men with so little character and guts, and yes, HEART, that they would tank the season because Weis gave them 30 minutes of harsh language and a lesson in personal accountability after the game on Saturday. If it is true (which I don't believe), then this 'team' should be blown up and the players who WANT to play should rise to starters roles.

I believe Weis' post-game comments about looking into the eyes of the players and coaches to see who had thrown in the towel was that first step. I think the second step is a return to "training camp" practices and the final step is the results on Saturday. If the team still shows no HEART again, then the season is more than just a loss. It is the beginning of the end for Weis at ND. I simply cannot believe that until I see it on the field.

They may not have the tools to beat MSU (which in and of itself is truly sad), but what they MUST have is HEART and fire and a burning desire to compete. If they don't, then Rockne himself could not salvage anything useful from them. This is the biggest game of the last 10 years...it may well determine if ND can build for a possible MNC run in the near future or whether or not the team and the program take that nose dive to depths unimaginable just 10 months ago...a return to irrelevance.

For a week when true fan support is desperately needed, I get the feeling from the fan sites that the fan base has already cashed in their chips and hit the buffet...so much for fan loyalty...let's just hope that the Irish come out fighting again unlike what we have witnessed so far this year...

 

[johnnd05]

Excellent post once again, Moostache. I don't think the fans around here have "cashed in our chips", though: I've certainly remained hopeful that Weis can turn this ship around, and I think that after the successes of the last two years he deserves our patience in doing that. (So I don't think that even if we DO come out flat next week, it's the "beginning of the end" for him.) And my attitude is considerably LESS negative than that of many other people. I know that there's been a lot more negativity at some other sites, but the Kool-Aid is still flowing at IE.

 

[onenybrother]

Even losing to the Spartans will not damper my spirits.

 

[goldandblue]

I haven't cashed in any "chips". I still have the "chips" I was given when I was born into being a notre dame fan. It is awful to see my Irish play like this. Do I know that they will get better? YES because I have faith in two things GOD and MY IRISH! It may not be this year, and it may not be next year but when they do get better, I'll still have my pocket full of "chips" I've had from day one.

I do think Weis will get this team back into a winning mindset. Yes! this year starting with the MSU game. I've said this before but when you see this team have some success, You better strap yourself down because I believe they will take off like a rocket ship. All they need is a little self confidence.

You can chalk up these first three losses to wies for trying to install new ideas (offensive schemes) into a team that is young and inexpeirenced who just need the basic packages with focus on fundamentals.

I can only imagine how that offense felt the very first play of the Michigan game. They are facing their archrival, they have had zero production and the first play is a what 19 yard loss or something like that. That's when you get the mentality that. "Damn we are never going to get going" And therfore you just decide that you suck and give up trying.

Along with the offense you have the defense which feeds off the offense. If the offense can't get anything done, The defense has it in their minds that no matter how good we play, We are not going to win this damn ball game. So that's when the "what difference does it make" attitude comes in. Like "oh well i missed a tackle" but what the hell does it matter anyway. We don't have a chance to win.

That's why I think when you see this team have some success on offense, you will see a whole new team.

Anyways. I'm not cashing in any "chips" and I don't think any other true notre dame fans should either. The Irish will win!

This is kinda rambling but I'm not exactly an english major either.

 

[Moostache]

And my attitude is considerably LESS negative than that of many other people. I know that there's been a lot more negativity at some other sites, but the Kool-Aid is still flowing at IE.

I think I need a few gallons of it myself....

This AM in St. Louis, I had the distinct displeasure of AGAIN hearing people calling into a radio show (1480 AM - in St. Louis for that matter, hardly a hot-bed of ND fans, though there are a good number of us here) to bash ND as a racist institution, to say that Willingham was wronged and that if ND does not fire Weis NOW, it somehow proves institutional racism is alive and well in South Bend. Of course, never mind the nagging little details that shoot gaping holes in such a preposterous theory - things like minority graduation rates relative to other schools, things like the fact that the hiring of Corwin Brown (or Mike Haywood for that matter) did not seem to be held up in any way by his ethnicity, and on and on. What made it even worse was the dipshit host agreeing with the caller to a large extent and calling out ND for keeping Willingham on such a short leash because he was black and because the administration and "the big money boosters" wanted it that way and going on to include ND in a sweeping indictment of American sports and minority hiring practices. Again, unbelieveable to anyone with a brain and a clue of the realities, but this is the media and they do not care about being factual or fair any more...the badges of honor for journalists past are now seen as something to be mocked or ignored in the interests of the "story"...but I digress...

I couldn't get through to the call-in show before they went off the air (cowards ), but needless to say, my feelings on that are 180-degrees opposite of the callers, who all seemed ready to burn Weis at the stake right now.

Nothing that happened in the past is an excuse for the first 3 weeks of this season though...not the talent gap in the upperclasses, not the inexperienced players, not even the "brutal" schedule. Those are realities in a varying degree at all major college programs and ND may have some things worse than others, but let's not collectively kid ourselves here - ND also has a lot of advantages over over programs too - certainly no more so than the advantages over the Appachalian States or Utahs of the world. But just as none of this should be an excuse, none of it is a blanket indictment of Weis either. What would be a crushing blow to the program's future would be a team that continues to regress throughout the season and shows no fire or emotion or fight in the next 5 games. This team must believe that they SHOULD win all 5..not that they will of course (I'd settle for 4-1 myself but that's why I am not a head football coach at a prestigious university too), but they need to believe that they should.

I firmly believe that a continued apparent lack of effort from the players (Scwhapp I am talking about you here....the next time you actually hit an opposing player instead of air and then the ground will be cause for a celebration in my house!) and a lack of any descernible signs of improvement on the field could be an indicator that Weis' leash is going to shrink considerably (8-years on a contract remaining or not), but he WILL be back for a 4th year because of one very simple fact - his second year did not stink.

Willingham's second AND third years stunk and his recruiting in that same period was even worse than the performance on the field - again, IMO NONE of this should be used as a continued crutch THIS year, its time for Weis and company to prove that they have what the Willingham staff and leadership did not - the willingness and ability to change directions and produce results. Willingham was relieved of his position because of an unwillingness to change anything about it - not his work ethic, not his staff, not his recruiting, not his systems - nothing. The ship was going down by the head; and the captain at the time was determined to ride it to the bottom.

This year, to borrow the hackneyed Titanic metaphors one last time, the ship has again run afoul of trouble. The difference now is that this is the first time the ship is in danger under its current captain - not the second (bad recruiting following a bad year), third (a second consecutive bad season) or fourth (another, even worse recruiting effort following another bad season).

This was the last scenario:
ND fanbase - "Iceberg...right ahead!"
Coach Willingham - "Full steam ahead, steady as she goes Mr. Murdoch..."

D'oh! Last straw time.....let's throw HIM overboard and try to right this thing ourselves...

We are not quite there yet...embarassed? Hell yes. Historically bad on offense in a 3 week stretch? Uh-huh...you bet. Steaming head long into the on coming disaster without so much as a plan or an intention of doing anything to change that course? No, far from it really. If this is the same conversation next year after 3 games, if the ND program is talking about losses in 10 or 12 or 14 of the last 16 games played, then you bet it is time to gice Chuck the old 'heave-ho'. But we are not there yet, no matter how many dipshit talking heads and would-be journalists want to take the easy, lazy way out of their jobs right now and write the Willingham - Weis story or the ND-is-racist story...AGAIN!

I am more curious and anxious to see the team's play in the first quarter this weekend than I have been since the first quarter of the Pitt game in 2005. I was anticipating the season opener this year almost as much too, but the train wreck that ensued immediately threw me from anticipation to numbed shock and that persisted until I turned off the Michigan game at 31-0 at the half.

Now is when we really find out what Charlie Weis is made of and whether or not his leadership is strong enough to salvage a broken season; and even more importantly, whether or not he can build positives the rest of the year - to make people believe again that he is the man to lead ND back to the title games and bowl wins of the late 1980's and early 1990's, or if he will be the third consecutive mis-fire in the coaching ranks at ND....

Now is also when we find out about the character of the team's fifth year guys...guys whose only contributuion to ND history at this point could be serving as true role models of "Notre Dame Men" to the guys who will be left behind for the coming 3 to 4 years.

Now is when we separate the wheat from the chaffe among our hyped up Sophomore class (#8 in the country overall, #1 overall O-Line?). Now is when Jimmy Clausen and Armando Allen and the rest of the freshmen can begin laying the fundamental foundation for future success or for future disappointments. But quitting? Seriously, any players who are ready to air-mail in the rest of the season do not appreciate or understand the place in ND history that they occupy right now!

I am pulling hard for Charlie Weis to succeed here, but in the end, its a results-based world. Weis can still become the next Lou Holtz or the next Gerry Faust - both options remain on the table at this point.... Both of them were honorable men, with a deep love of the university and all it stands for; but their legacies are defined by their results, not their intentions and not their character alone. If character alone was the measuring stick for ND greatness among head coaches, Gerry Faust would be a legend alongside Rockne and Leahy. Starting on Saturday, and really extending through the rest of this season and into next, Weis gets to determine which direction his legacy will go. With that much at stake, and with his history in football and with ND in the last two years, I find the mere suggestion that his players will quit on him to be ludicrous!

Go Irish! Beat the Spartans like the rented mule of a team that they truly are....

 

[goldandblue]

"Applause" Very good post. you should get a job working for a paper! lol! I think you can submit articles to certain sites and news media places. Not for sure though. Someone else on here will know. Good post.

 

[connor_in]

No chip cashing here either Moo...

as I said before and will again, i was born and raised an ND fan and will never give up my seat on the bandwagon...as long as we see some improvement this week in at LEAST effort if not production, I will be heartened and feel a step in the right direction has been taken...

However (and in the interest of full disclosure I am an MSU grad '92), while MSU is the worst team we will have played yet this year overall talent-wise, that's not saying much...GT and PSU are very good teams and UM is suffering from an extreme case of underachievement. MSU is looking to be a somewhat solid team under the new coach and appears to have taken his hard nosed approach to heart (no where near as loopy as they were under John L). Therefore, a loss to MSU won't hurt...it would only if they lose they same way they have been the last 3 weeks. Steps up in effort, production, and heart are the main things on my radar this week...anything else is gravy

 

[jcaleb421]

I also have not cashed in my chips. Nothing can cause me to do so. I will stand by my team until the end. Watching every snap of every game no matter the score or record. I am blue and gold thru and thru. I love the Irish and always will. Although winning will bring me out of my depresion and I will be able to stop drinking.

Go Irish

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

Let's Go Irish!!!!!!!

 

[Madknute]

This game with MSU is HUGE! GT, PSU and Michigan are all upperclassman loaded teams that we would have been hard pressed to beat this year. MSU is 3-0 but has struggled some. We should be able to play with them. We should come out with some success and hopefully some fire.

Zibby, LAws, Sullivan hopefully can fire up with young'uns. I would agrue they have millions of reasons to play with more fire.

If we come out flat, look out. Unfortunately this means the team has given up hope.

 

[FleaFlicker]

MSU is beatable. I remain optimistic about everything because I really believe there is a switch that needs to be turned on, and this line will finally "Get it".

Honestly, so much of the problem resides with leadership and the O-Line. Sure, there are other problems like stupid penalties and ball control. But we truly have talented receivers, talented tight ends, talented running backs, and a very talented QB. Imagine how our offense will look when the line (more talented out of HS than most on our schedule) finally is able to push back the LOS?

It can happen, these guys aren't small, they aren't pansies, they aren't slow. They can really do it, they just need to turn the switch on. You guys do realize that our starting OL consists of 2 3-stars, 2 4-stars, and 1 5-star. Right? That is talent and more talent on the OL than just about everyone outside of the top 10.

I know they are inexperienced. But the ability is laden in them right now. I just hope it can be developed, and soon. And I believe it will. In 08 and 09, it will be much better, for sure. But I haven't given up on the OL or our team this year. As others have said, its about progress. If the team shows progress to finish out the year. If we don't get blasted by teams like UCLA, Purdue, BC, then I'll feel like the team is headed in the right direction for 08.

 

[michavelli]

You may not SEE Weis around much longer to survive him!

 

[johnnd05]

You may not SEE Weis around much longer to survive him!

Bullcrap. This is just a ridiculous claim.

 

[goldandblue]

You may not SEE Weis around much longer to survive him!

I forgot you had hire-fire capabilities at N.D. So when are you sending him out packing?

 

[goldandblue]

“We care a lot,” Sullivan says. “We want to win games. We’re trying to get better. That’s why we’re doing what we’re doing. We’re going back to the drawing board. We’re going to figure out some way to get better.”

quote from John Sullivan.

 

[gallup21]

thats all not true...theyre not playing to get him fired/quit/mad/whatever the case you think may be. nice quote find goldandblue