Gators with Guns

[jiggafini19]

Quick Summary of Incident:

http://www.fanblogs.com/florida/006427.php

Scroll to second story. Urban slapping the wrist?

http://www.everydayshouldbesaturday.com/

I was under the impression that Urban busted asses at BGSU and Utah when it came to this kind of stuff. Funny how the high profile, pressure SEC job makes a guy change his values I.E. discipline.

 

[irish4life99]

Funny how some people will sell their soul for success. He must want the fast track to the NFL ala Jimmie Johnson. You remember how he left Miami don't you? Will we see a parallel situation here? Urban better be careful, some of these kids may be packin at practice. He could be the first coach to start wearing body armour.

 

[Fighting_Irish9]

What am I missing? A guy accidently shot a gun and no one got hurt? Is there more to the story? What should his punishment be?

 

[jiggafini19]

What am I missing? A guy accidently shot a gun and no one got hurt? Is there more to the story? What should his punishment be?

WTF is a college student going with a gun?

No one got hurt = they got lucky. Imagine is someone had.

Gun toting = NBA Basketball.

 

[Fighting_Irish9]

WTF is a college student going with a gun?
No one got hurt = they got lucky. Imagine is someone had.
Gun toting = NBA Basketball.

Yes its stupid for any 20 or 21 year old to own a gun, but what punishment should be handed down from Urban Meyer?

Best I can tell he owned the gun legally and it accidently going off is unlikely more than a misdemenor if even that

Not sure what punishment you would expect

 

[St.Kittsnd]

I would expell him from school!!! Can you give me one good reason why a student at any university needs a gun.

 

[BigIrish]

hunting. students have a right to participate in sport hunting while away at school.

that said, i'm not sure what he would be hunting with the gun mentioned in the story. furthermore, the discharge of firearms within populated areas like say...a college town, is definitely illegal, and represents a careless regard for a firearm to say the least.

is it legal for him to own a gun? yes. should have have been handling a firearm the way it was described in the article? no. meyer should hand down some form of punishment simply to illustrate to other team members that reckless behavior is not tolerated and that he is in complete control of the team.

 

[Gizmo]

When I was in high school my buddies and I would go out on the lake with a few beers and a .22 and shoot gators. My guess is that this is not a popular activity in Gainesville. Even UF grads would pick up on that symbolism.

Not that what we did was the smartest idea in the world, but a .22 being used by kids who have been trained in gun safety while only consuming a few beers out on a deserted lake is somewhat different from a loaded AK-47, AR-15 assault rifle, .38-caliber revolver, and a 12-gauge shotgun being handled by drunk kids in a crowded college apartment complex.

I realize that no charges will be filed, but there needs to be some repercussions for such irresponsibility. I can think of plenty of things that I could have done legally that my parents would have disciplined me for and this should be no different.

 

[irish4life99]

What the HELL are college kids doing with assualt rifles? Why does an intoxicated college kid need to be playing around with fully loaded AK47? Did they call the police after the accident? NO, they left the scene. They didn't even care to stick around to see if anyone was injured. Why wasn't there at least wreak less endangerment charge? Just shows how these UF thugs get special treatment by the local authorities. I'm willing to bet if this was just some ordinary thug he would have been arrested on the spot. This whole thing just stinks like swamp gas. I guarantee had this happened at ND that the admin and Charlie would have had a MUCH different reaction to this incident. I mean a player at ND gets suspended for a year for a DUI, not even on campus but that happened while he was at home for the summer. But a UF player fires a assault rifle into a occupied apartment and leaves the scene and not so much as even a slap on the wrist.

Not even a misdemeanor; you've got to be joking!

Read more here:

http://www.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/uwire/021706aaa.html

 

[BigIrish]

Not that what we did was the smartest idea in the world, but a .22 being used by kids who have been trained in gun safety while only consuming a few beers out on a deserted lake is somewhat different from a loaded AK-47, AR-15 assault rifle, .38-caliber revolver, and a 12-gauge shotgun being handled by drunk kids in a crowded college apartment complex.

eh...it's outside the point of the thread, but being a sportsman myself, i'd have to disagree with the comment above. they're equally poor decisions. booze and guns NEVER mix, not to mention the fact that randomly killing an animal in its natural habitat (i.e. doesn't pose a threat to the community) without harvesting the meat is a deplorable act.

but i digress...

 

[Gizmo]

Sorry BigIrish, I was trying to make a relevant point by providing a different context, but I did a poor job of doing both.

I can remember on two occasions some friends and I going out on my buddy's boat on his lake. Four of us went out with a few beers and no gun; one went out with a gun and no beer. He drove around looking for the gator and at no point did he let any of us handle the gun. He never shot at any other animals for "fun" either. But the problem with gators is that they will occasionally get into the sewers or lakes in communities and they can be very dangerous to children and are known to eat small dogs. Kids are taught what to do, but dogs don't know any better and owners frequently let their dogs roam free in their backyards and are unaware when a gator is in their community until it is too late. The whole point of that story being the gun served a purpose (to get rid of a dangerous animal) and it wasn't being passed around to a bunch of drunken college kids in a crowded apartment complex. I did a very poor job of illustrating these facts in my earlier post.

Basically it boils down to some dumb high school kids who should have called animal control and gone to a movie instead. And while I admitted this wasn’t our smartest group decision I think we exercised some common sense whereas the UF player and his friends appeared to exercise none. In hindsight it was probably not the best example to use.

 

[Fighting_Irish9]

My point isn't that he shouldn't be punished I just don't think it should be all that severe, and who is to say Meyer isn't going to suspend him for a game...

Thus far all he has done is NOT revoke the kids scholarship...I don't think he should...look at the facts that were presented.

Tookes wasn't drinking (Webb was)
Tookes Accidently fired Webb's gun while holding it
Tookes has never been in any kind of trouble before at UF or anywhere else

And because of this one mistake you guys think he should be kicked out of school? I disagree...as for Powers-Neal, he didn't have his scholarship revoked as far as I can tell, he wasn't kicked out of school either, he did lose playing time. Tookes may lose playing time too but remember, Powers-Neal committed a feloney, Tookes broke no law

 

[jiggafini19]

Make them run stadium stairs until they puke.

I once saw someone showing off a gun at a party in college.

I decided I was going to go somewhere else.

 

[irish4life99]

Only one person said that he should be expelled, which I don't agree with. I think he should keep his ccholarship but be suspended from playing games next year. However, I'm quite sure it wont happen. And how did Powers-Neal commit a Felony for a DUI. It's a misdemeanor in every state in the US. Hmmm, lets see what would I consider more reckless. Firing an assualt weapon into an ajacent occupied apartment and leaving the scene without seeing if anyone was killed or wounded, or having a couple too many beers after a party? That's a weak argument. While Tookes clean record should be considered, he don't need to be on the field next year during games period!

 

[jiggafini19]

Worse things happened under Zook. We'll see what Urban does about it.

We used to call it "Cardiovascular Education". You ran until you lost your lunch when you did something dumb.

Then again, Bobby Bowden punishes EVERYONE this way no matter what they do. Might not want to go that route.

 

[Fighting_Irish9]

Only one person said that he should be expelled, which I don't agree with. I think he should keep his ccholarship but be suspended from playing games next year. However, I'm quite sure it wont happen. And how did Powers-Neal commit a Felony for a DUI. It's a misdemeanor in every state in the US. Hmmm, lets see what would I consider more reckless. Firing an assualt weapon into an ajacent occupied apartment and leaving the scene without seeing if anyone was killed or wounded, or having a couple too many beers after a party? That's a weak argument. While Tookes clean record should be considered, he don't need to be on the field next year during games period!

So you would suspend a kid for an entire year for accidently shooting a gun, and having NO CHARGES pressed against him...

 

[BigIrish]

i don't know if he should be suspended for the entire year, but come on - use some common sense. the guy fired a gun in a residential building. i don't care if he meant to do it or not. i don't care if he has a 'clean record.' the gun when off because he was CARELESS, and people should get in trouble when they endanger lives through CARELESSNESS.

as an aside, i always find it ironic when people talk about an "accidental shooting." there are no accidental shootings. there may be unintentional shootings, but that still means that somebody loaded a gun, pointed it, and pulled the trigger.

the point is that when people screw up, they must take responsibility for their actions whether it was an accident or not. part of taking responsibility for his actions includes enduring whatever penalty meyer sees fit. perhaps suspending him from spring practice might be appropriate - who knows?

think about it this way. if you were a teenager living in your parents house, and you fired a gun in the living room while your parents were upstairs, do you think they'd be upset? would you get punished for it?

 

[Fighting_Irish9]

i don't know if he should be suspended for the entire year, but come on - use some common sense. the guy fired a gun in a residential building. i don't care if he meant to do it or not. i don't care if he has a 'clean record.' the gun when off because he was CARELESS, and people should get in trouble when they endanger lives through CARELESSNESS.

as an aside, i always find it ironic when people talk about an "accidental shooting." there are no accidental shootings. there may be unintentional shootings, but that still means that somebody loaded a gun, pointed it, and pulled the trigger.

the point is that when people screw up, they must take responsibility for their actions whether it was an accident or not. part of taking responsibility for his actions includes enduring whatever penalty meyer sees fit. perhaps suspending him from spring practice might be appropriate - who knows?

think about it this way. if you were a teenager living in your parents house, and you fired a gun in the living room while your parents were upstairs, do you think they'd be upset? would you get punished for it?

All those are decent points but lets not forget it wasn't his gun...we don't know that he knew it was loaded. We don't know if he picked it up and it went off because he thought the safety was on when it wasn't. All we know is after the police spoke to all involved they felt that there was no wrong doing by Tookes.

Personally I would speak with Tookes, Webb and whoever else was there before I handed down my punishment. Meyer waited till the police investigation was over and when it was he pulled them into his office and spoke with him.

Again...

Look at Meyers Track record....he has never just over looked things
The police after talking to all involved felt there was no wrong doing
Tookes has never been in trouble before...

It just doesn't seem like anything fishy is going on here.

 

[Vince Young]

All those are decent points but lets not forget it wasn't his gun...we don't know that he knew it was loaded.

The first rule of gun safety is... every gun is loaded.

The second rule of gun safety is... every gun is loaded.

Any questions?

 

[BigIrish]

The first rule of gun safety is... every gun is loaded.
The second rule of gun safety is... every gun is loaded.
Any questions?

EXACTLY. someone give this man some rep - i can't do it.

guns aren't toys. if a guy doesn't know how to handle one with care, he shouldn't even pick it up. in this situation, for the gun to go off, a trigger was pulled. that constitutes reckless endangerment whether he meant to or not.

 

[jiggafini19]

This just happened and appeared in the Chicago papers today. Haven't even heard of this guy, but he is the second Bear player to get into trouble this off season. Having an SUV and a gun must be part of being an athlete for some guys.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/bears/cst-spt-bear01.html

 

[Irish Envy]

Doesn't look like he'll be a Bear for long.

 

[Fighting_Irish9]

EXACTLY. someone give this man some rep - i can't do it.
guns aren't toys. if a guy doesn't know how to handle one with care, he shouldn't even pick it up. in this situation, for the gun to go off, a trigger was pulled. that constitutes reckless endangerment whether he meant to or not.

I agree guns aren't toys, and it is a mistake, but the gun wasn't his, I'd place more blame on the actual owner of the gun.

I just don't see this being more than a slap on the wrist type thing, maybe make him take a gun safety class or do some community work 20 hours or so with gun safety.

 

[BigIrish]

I agree guns aren't toys, and it is a mistake, but the gun wasn't his, I'd place more blame on the actual owner of the gun.
I just don't see this being more than a slap on the wrist type thing, maybe make him take a gun safety class or do some community work 20 hours or so with gun safety.

once again, i'd have to disagree. it doesn't matter who 'owned' the gun. everybody knows the inherent danger that a gun represents. if i loan you my truck and you drive it 60 mph through a busy intersection, is that my fault or yours?

i see this as being more than a slap on the wrist, and less than an expulsion from the team. it was wreckless, and is deserving of discipline. if that 'unintentional' discharge of a firearm had resulted in an injury or death, we wouldn't be having this conversation, because he'd be wearing inmate orange and facing manslaughter or negligent homicide charges. THAT should give you an idea over the seriousness of his 'mistake.'

 

[jiggafini19]

I think the point we're all getting at here is that SOMEthing has to be done on Urban Meyer's part. If he lets it slide without consequence he could end up losing control of the team just like Ron Zook did and the Gators will be on their way to Miami/Florida State convict/criminole country. He has to get the players' respect quickly. Gotta have policy that shows some teeth and doesn't bend.

As a coach, the last thing you want to hear is a player's name involved with the word POLICE unless he is a Criminal Justice major. As a player, realize what an unnecessary risk is and avoid them. I knew guys that wouldn't so much as play a game of HORSE at the rec center during season for fear of getting hurt. From August to December, most of us couldn't be found out partying on weekends. I watched a lot of movies, TV and logged hours on Playstation. It isn't that hard to stay out of trouble.

You nip these things in the bud early so they don't spread uncontrolled late.

 

[Irish Envy]

I agree guns aren't toys, and it is a mistake, but the gun wasn't his, I'd place more blame on the actual owner of the gun.

I just don't see this being more than a slap on the wrist type thing, maybe make him take a gun safety class or do some community work 20 hours or so with gun safety.

So if you owned a gun and someone took it from your home and committed a murder with it, you'd be okay if they charged you with the murder?

 

[jiggafini19]

“We didn't feel comfortable that there were any criminal charges that we were able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, especially when you took intent out of the picture,” said Gainesville Police spokesman Sgt. Keith Kameg. “There was no willful and wanton intent to shoot into that apartment, based on interviews in the case."

Okay, it was an accident. No one was hurt (luckily) and the police will not press charges. Done and done.

But sources told The Sun on Tuesday that, in spite of the police decision, Webb was told by the University Athletic Association to remove the weapons from Gainesville if he wants to continue to use UF facilities, such as the weight room at Ben Hill Griffin Stadium, or participate in Pro Day at UF on March 8 when NFL scouts work out former Gator football players at the stadium.

Florida football coach Urban Meyer was out of the country Tuesday on business. Florida athletic director Jeremy Foley had no comment on the matter.

Although charges will not be filed, police said they had little cooperation initially from players involved in the incident until the UAA and coaches stepped in.

"The players early on had a chance to help us. Either fear or thinking it would go away, they didn't," Kameg said. "Once we contacted the university and the athletic department, all of this turned around."

Bad, bad, bad, bad. The kid with the guns is leaving early for the NFL. He probably hasn't been to class in months. All they can do is take away his rec center pass so he can't work out?

Webb believed the guns were not loaded, according to the police investigation.

But while Tookes was handling the rifle, it fired.

Gee, famous last words every time something like this happens. Dope.

Police believe alcohol may have been a factor in the shooting. But Kameg said officers couldn't prove anyone had been drinking when the shot was fired.

Big shock there.

Officers spoke to Webb the same night of the shooting, and at that time he appeared intoxicated and told them "he had a million-dollar career waiting for him in the NFL and his lawyers would clear him of this," a police report stated.

Webb played as a cornerback for the Gators but announced earlier this year he would make himself available for the NFL Draft.

Sounds like a real classy kid.

they were looking at the AR-15 and an AK-47, which Webb had recently purchased.

The next Jayson Williams? I guess he has these weapons just in case an elephant gets loose in the streets. Or a limo driver. Whichever comes first.

I hope these aren't the kinds of guys Zook is bringing to Champaign, IL.

 

[BigIrish]

exactly, jigga. look at the play this is getting on an irish site. can you imagine the talk that going around down in gainsville about it? a football player talking as if he's above the law. refusal to cooperate. a silent athletic department. an absentee coach (out of the country on business?).

the whole thing LOOKS bad. meyer should lay down the law just to prove he CAN.

 

[jiggafini19]

I know I had one of these in college.

Kept it right by my lava lamp next to the Raemen noodles under my Led Zeppelin poster.

There must actually be live aligators that jump out of bushes and sewers in the quad...right on campus.

 

[NDgettysburg]

The first rule of gun safety is... every gun is loaded.
The second rule of gun safety is... every gun is loaded.
Any questions?

That's all well and good for someone who's been taught gun safety.....most people aren't and don't have the common sense to think like that. MOST people who've never had any safety taught to them think just the opposite.