Does firing CW solve anything?

[Clausen2Kamara]

I've looked at this from both sides. The day after all of my anger and frustration told me that I wanted CW out as coach of our beloved football team..common sense kicked in. What does firing CW solve? It solves not calling screens 1/3 of the time(trying to protect the new INT happy JC from forcing more throws), being unable to put the dagger in other teams, and ummm I got nothing else.. we lost 3 games in which we totally dominated..if we complete those games or even 2 of them, this topic wouldn't even be in discussion...I think it sets this program back even further...I'll be the first to admit that CW is learning on the go and he is not perfect..at all. But believe it or not...all of these talented players we are getting wouldn't even have given us a sniff if Willingham was still here...I know everybody hates the mention of his name and it pains me to do so...CW deserves one more year in my opinion. Like it or not he will be back next season..He is getting immense talent..its time for us to stick up for our coach no matter how hard it may be..if we as in die hard fans don't believe, think how our players, and or prospective players feel if they know we are just bailing out on them...I'll be a fan through hard times and good times...I'm looking forward to the good...and I believe they are coming next season...if not CW should and will be canned...but I believe nobody will be calling for his head next year. If we do in fact hire a new HC, he can thank CW for stocking the talent for him..You don't think CW isn't trying hard enough? He went to Hawaii during our off week to see Manit Teo...a guy who we have an OUTSIDE chance of landing..yet he went there and sacraficed his few days he could have spent with his family because he loves this University...I'll stop now..just had to get that off my chest.

 

[YoderDame]

I've looked at this from both sides. The day after all of my anger and frustration told me that I wanted CW out as coach of our beloved football team..common sense kicked in. What does firing CW solve? It solves not calling screens 1/3 of the time(trying to protect the new INT happy JC from forcing more throws), being unable to put the dagger in other teams, and ummm I got nothing else.. we lost 3 games in which we totally dominated..if we complete those games or even 2 of them, this topic wouldn't even be in discussion...I think it sets this program back even further...I'll be the first to admit that CW is learning on the go and he is not perfect..at all. But believe it or not...all of these talented players we are getting wouldn't even have given us a sniff if Willingham was still here...I know everybody hates the mention of his name and it pains me to do so...CW deserves one more year in my opinion. Like it or not he will be back next season..He is getting immense talent..its time for us to stick up for our coach no matter how hard it may be..we as in die hard fans don't believe, think how our players, and or prospective players feel if they know we are just bailing out on them...I'll be a fan through hard times and good times...I'm looking forward to the good...and I believe they are coming soon.

Well written! I am just as dejected as any other Irish fan as we all sat through the quandry yesterday afternoon. As I sit here and read all of the negativity, I have to ponder this...why are you sitting in your recliner watching the game in the comfort of your living room and not out there on the sidelines in the freezing ass cold coaching the game instead of Charlie?

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

I've looked at this from both sides...

Well done. I agree. As painful as this and last season have been, I still believe this team is on the upswing, vs. the previous staff and teams that I thought were accelerating downhill.

We see progress next year, or I actually eat the entire fucking puppy. No seasoning.

No mercy. I'm hardcore that way.

I'm going straight to hell.

 

[WaveDomer]

This is a good topic. Even if you think he should be gone, it's a good topic. I personally believe that the problems with this team are fixable with some tweaking. It may be serious tweaking, but tweaking nonetheless. I think the talent is there and that the main problems are mental. They just don't expect to win or really know how to win yet. The answer to the main question of the post is probably unknown. The real truth is that we will definitely take some steps backwards by firing Weis. You take steps backwards when you fire anyone in any business. Now, that doesn't mean it's not the right thing to do, but there are definite disadvantages to firing someone. What we don't know is if the steps forward will be more than the steps back. I am very wary of shuffling coaches, especially in college. The truth is that I don't know what my opinion is yet. The loss to Syracuse was a collapse. I think that's why people have just had it. The best advice is to never do something out of emotion. Right now, Notre Dame is full of emotion. I would say wait until making any decisions and really think it through.

 

[mooneytostle]

Firing him solves A LOT of problems if there is an acceptable candidate in place to hire. These candidates come from a very short and distinguished list. If it is clear that no one on the target list will leave to be the next coach, then you cannot fire Weis.

What happens when we go 9-3/8-4 and then can't fire him for another two years though? That is what i worry about.

 

[WaveDomer]

Firing him solves A LOT of problems if there is an acceptable candidate in place to hire. These candidates come from a very short and distinguished list. If it is clear that no one on the target list will leave to be the next coach, then you cannot fire Weis.

What happens when we go 9-3/8-4 and then can't fire him for another two years though? That is what i worry about.

I get what you're saying, but if he goes 9-3 then who's to say he hasn't figured it out? I guess it's possible that he goes 9-3 and it's just dumb luck or whatever, but I don't think so. I know our schedule is not the greatest next year, but I don't think you win 9 games and stink.

 

[mooneytostle]

I get what you're saying, but if he goes 9-3 then who's to say he hasn't figured it out? I guess it's possible that he goes 9-3 and it's just dumb luck or whatever, but I don't think so. I know our schedule is not the greatest next year, but I don't think you win 9 games and stink.

I definitely would not call it dumb luck. But we could be very average and win 8, 9 or even 10 games next year. Our schedule is really that bad. Just as it is this year. I still can't believe we are playing both Washington's, including one of them in Texas. What a joke.

 

[tankjeep]

i'll give him a pass for one more year. if they don't win 9 games, bye-bye cw.

 

[irish4ever]

i'll give him a pass for one more year.

Me too, but how in the hell do you lose to a freakin' 2-win Syracuse team AT HOME ON SENIOR DAY!?!?! Unfreakin' believable .... simply unfreakin' believable! A loss to USC next week and a loss to some team in the Toilet Bowl and end up w/ a losing record (again)! Unfeakin' believable!!!

Sorry for the ranting and raving, but I do feel just a little better after that!

 

[dre1919]

Firing Charlie does a lot actually. Namely, it gets rid of mediocrity at the head coaching position and would ensure an overhaul of the coaching staff (which is just as needed). Of course, we will need to have the inside track on someone good to come in and replace him, but even still...it's a good move. A lot of people say that firing him now would be more damaging than keeping him. Well, how can you have a bigger disaster? He's 28-20 currently, which is comparable to both his predecessors, he lost to an eight loss team for the first time in ND history and has registered 14 losses in his last two seasons. Rebuilding years or not, that's horrendous in college football. This isn't the NFL where teams sometimes go 8-8 and it's not a big deal. Because every loss is so magnified in CFB, 14 losses in the past two seasons is incredible.

The simple truth is that the issue extends beyond the "cupboard was bare" problem people like to toss around. The real issue is, the program has been horribly mismanaged since Holtz left. Some might say that he had his own problems, and that's a question for the moral majority to deal with, but he won and won consistently. Since his tenure, Notre Dame has gone from mediocrity, to irrelevant to a punch line. The time for this to stop has come. We need to overhaul the football program by getting it more inline with the current college landscape. Playing a reasonable schedule for a change was a good start, but now the next step is getting in a quality, experienced coaching staff that can implement a creative offense and a dominating defense. This extends further than just recruiting ability or classes...it's scheming, knowledge of the college game, experience in the trenches as a head coach, etc. These are things that Charlie Weis simply doesn't seem to possess.

Coming from the NFL, and inheriting Willingham's better than realized talent he had his early successes and everyone thought the world of him. However, it's when you don't have much to work with we see how creative and skilled a play caller, motivator and coach he is. Obviously, he's nothing special because the product on the field stinks. Simply put, Weis does not give us an advantage to win a football game as our head coach. If he's not an asset, then he's either a liability or simply taking up space. I say it's time we get someone that actually makes our football team better.

 

[Rocket's Rocket Fan]

After this past week I'm not really sure where I stand, but I still think CW gets one more year. One thing that I see that has not been said is what would happen with all the recruits that he has brought in? I believe that we would loose a few of one ones coming in, and also loose some of the young talent that we have on the team through transfers.

I really hope that Charlie is learning from all of this.

Oh btw I got a free $65 ticket for the OSU Mich game last weekend and I'm sad to say I went and kinda had a good time.

 

[NDOM]

Firing Charlie does a lot actually. Namely, it gets rid of mediocrity at the head coaching position and would ensure an overhaul of the coaching staff (which is just as needed). Of course, we will need to have the inside track on someone good to come in and replace him, but even still...it's a good move. A lot of people say that firing him now would be more damaging than keeping him. Well, how can you have a bigger disaster? He's 28-20 currently, which is comparable to both his predecessors, he lost to an eight loss team for the first time in ND history and has registered 14 losses in his last two seasons. Rebuilding years or not, that's horrendous in college football. This isn't the NFL where teams sometimes go 8-8 and it's not a big deal. Because every loss is so magnified in CFB, 14 losses in the past two seasons is incredible.

The simple truth is that the issue extends beyond the "cupboard was bare" problem people like to toss around. The real issue is, the program has been horribly mismanaged since Holtz left. Some might say that he had his own problems, and that's a question for the moral majority to deal with, but he won and won consistently. Since his tenure, Notre Dame has gone from mediocrity, to irrelevant to a punch line. The time for this to stop has come. We need to overhaul the football program by getting it more inline with the current college landscape. Playing a reasonable schedule for a change was a good start, but now the next step is getting in a quality, experienced coaching staff that can implement a creative offense and a dominating defense. This extends further than just recruiting ability or classes...it's scheming, knowledge of the college game, experience in the trenches as a head coach, etc. These are things that Charlie Weis simply doesn't seem to possess.

Coming from the NFL, and inheriting Willingham's better than realized talent he had his early successes and everyone thought the world of him. However, it's when you don't have much to work with we see how creative and skilled a play caller, motivator and coach he is. Obviously, he's nothing special because the product on the field stinks. Simply put, Weis does not give us an advantage to win a football game as our head coach. If he's not an asset, then he's either a liability or simply taking up space. I say it's time we get someone that actually makes our football team better.

100% accurate. It's time for a change NOW! He doesnt bring anything on the field. He brings in good talent but as soon as it hits the field its dead. Notre Dame stadium is a boneyard for great talent (at least is has been for the past 15 years or so). Time to go Charlie!

 

[irishfan1122]

I think Charlie Weis should be shown the door. Weis had every intention of being successful and bringing ND back to the promised land; however, he has failed, and not due to a lack of effort. It's easy to fire someone when it's clear they aren't putting forth 100% effort, but I don't think that is the case with Charlie. Deep down, I think he is giving 150%, but he has no idea how to manifest that 150% into being a successful HC. Let's face it, some guys are 2's, some are 1's.

 

[dre1919]

Exactly. Sure, Weis was a successful offensive coordinator in the NFL but that doesn't really mean anything. Many coaches are good in college then reach the pros only to find they aren't nearly as successful (Steve Spurrier, Dennis Erickson, Bobby Petrino, Nick Saban). Lots of NFL coaches come to college and think they will have the same success they did at the pro level and it doesn't materialize either (Al Groh isn't exactly lighting up Virginia football for example, and Bill Callahan was a disaster at Nebraska). Sure, there are exceptions...(Carroll at USC), but someone like him was a terrible NFL coach anyway and he found his true niche in the college ranks.

My point is, all these men tried and failed on both sides of the fence and they were head coaches. Charlie was merely a coordinator (albeit a good one for a multiple Super Bowl champion, but still). There is so much more to be taken on as a head coach in the first place, but a head coach in college football is truly a different animal...unlike high school or the pros. I think Charlie gave it a great shot, and as a person he seems like a nice enough guy. But, this isn't a popularity contest. It's about winning football games and producing a quality product. This isn't taking place. Notre Dame would be better off without him at the helm, and some NFL club would get to hire a good "pro" offensive coordinator. It's win-win.

 

[aaronb]

Firing Charlie does a lot actually. Namely, it gets rid of mediocrity at the head coaching position and would ensure an overhaul of the coaching staff (which is just as needed). Of course, we will need to have the inside track on someone good to come in and replace him, but even still...it's a good move. A lot of people say that firing him now would be more damaging than keeping him. Well, how can you have a bigger disaster? He's 28-20 currently, which is comparable to both his predecessors, he lost to an eight loss team for the first time in ND history and has registered 14 losses in his last two seasons. Rebuilding years or not, that's horrendous in college football. This isn't the NFL where teams sometimes go 8-8 and it's not a big deal. Because every loss is so magnified in CFB, 14 losses in the past two seasons is incredible.

The simple truth is that the issue extends beyond the "cupboard was bare" problem people like to toss around. The real issue is, the program has been horribly mismanaged since Holtz left. Some might say that he had his own problems, and that's a question for the moral majority to deal with, but he won and won consistently. Since his tenure, Notre Dame has gone from mediocrity, to irrelevant to a punch line. The time for this to stop has come. We need to overhaul the football program by getting it more inline with the current college landscape. Playing a reasonable schedule for a change was a good start, but now the next step is getting in a quality, experienced coaching staff that can implement a creative offense and a dominating defense. This extends further than just recruiting ability or classes...it's scheming, knowledge of the college game, experience in the trenches as a head coach, etc. These are things that Charlie Weis simply doesn't seem to possess.

Coming from the NFL, and inheriting Willingham's better than realized talent he had his early successes and everyone thought the world of him. However, it's when you don't have much to work with we see how creative and skilled a play caller, motivator and coach he is. Obviously, he's nothing special because the product on the field stinks. Simply put, Weis does not give us an advantage to win a football game as our head coach. If he's not an asset, then he's either a liability or simply taking up space. I say it's time we get someone that actually makes our football team better.

Is it Charlie Weis' fault that the program has been mismanaged since Holtz left? At least Weis has shown that he can get results with talented upperclassmen. Have we forgotten how Lou's last couple of years went? Lou was fired for a reason. So was Davie, So was Ty Willingham. At some point you are going to have to give SOMEBODY a chance to sink or swim. If not Charlie now, then WHO and WHEN? Do we throw money at an unproven Dantonio or Brian Kelly and fire them in 3 years when they fail to deliver a National Championship? I said it here before. The worst think about the firing of Ty Willingham is that it set a dangerous precedent. Now the fanbase wants blood after every loss. Give a guy a full recruiting cycle to prove himself. Next year will be the 4th year for Charlie's "guys". If he fails to win 9 games next year. Then it might be time to make changes.

 

[jonesman]

I am sick and tired of hearing people say that we should give CW one more year and that 9 wins is the acceptable bar. Keeping him for one more year does not bother me near as much as 9 wins. What the hell are you people thinking??? Take a freakin look at our schedule. It is so easy that we should be able to sleep walk to 10 wins. Other than USC, there is not one program that should beat an ND program returning every single playmaker on Offense and 9 starters on D. Further, a team that is loaded with more 4 and 5 star players on its roster than any opponent other than USC. We also have 7 homes games. 1 game on a nuetral site which will be ND fan dominated. That means we go into 4 hostile environs. Further, the toughest game of the year is at home, USC.

If you people want mediocre go root for Purdue or Indiana. We are not a program which should have the occassional BCS bid every 6 years. We should be competitive for the BCS every year. Next year is BCS or find a job in Arena Football, Charlie.

 

[midwestguy]

I am sick and tired of hearing people say that we should give CW one more year and that 9 wins is the acceptable bar. Keeping him for one more year does not bother me near as much as 9 wins. What the hell are you people thinking??? Take a freakin look at our schedule. It is so easy that we should be able to sleep walk to 10 wins. Other than USC, there is not one program that should beat an ND program returning every single playmaker on Offense and 9 starters on D. Further, a team that is loaded with more 4 and 5 star players on its roster than any opponent other than USC. We also have 7 homes games. 1 game on a nuetral site which will be ND fan dominated. That means we go into 4 hostile environs. Further, the toughest game of the year is at home, USC.

If you people want mediocre go root for Purdue or Indiana. We are not a program which should have the occassional BCS bid every 6 years. We should be competitive for the BCS every year. Next year is BCS or find a job in Arena Football, Charlie.

You sir, are a scholar and a gentleman. And you happen to be 100% right.

 

[mooneytostle]

I am sick and tired of hearing people say that we should give CW one more year and that 9 wins is the acceptable bar. Keeping him for one more year does not bother me near as much as 9 wins. What the hell are you people thinking??? Take a freakin look at our schedule. It is so easy that we should be able to sleep walk to 10 wins. Other than USC, there is not one program that should beat an ND program returning every single playmaker on Offense and 9 starters on D. Further, a team that is loaded with more 4 and 5 star players on its roster than any opponent other than USC. We also have 7 homes games. 1 game on a nuetral site which will be ND fan dominated. That means we go into 4 hostile environs. Further, the toughest game of the year is at home, USC.

If you people want mediocre go root for Purdue or Indiana. We are not a program which should have the occassional BCS bid every 6 years. We should be competitive for the BCS every year. Next year is BCS or find a job in Arena Football, Charlie.

for anyone to expectations below the ones you talk about is ridiculous. You are precisely right. The damning fact is that we should have slept walked through the schedule this year up until USC. The best team we've played so far is Michigan State, and they are only an above average football team.

 

[Clausen2Kamara]

Is it Charlie Weis' fault that the program has been mismanaged since Holtz left? At least Weis has shown that he can get results with talented upperclassmen. Have we forgotten how Lou's last couple of years went? Lou was fired for a reason. So was Davie, So was Ty Willingham. At some point you are going to have to give SOMEBODY a chance to sink or swim. If not Charlie now, then WHO and WHEN? Do we throw money at an unproven Dantonio or Brian Kelly and fire them in 3 years when they fail to deliver a National Championship? I said it here before. The worst think about the firing of Ty Willingham is that it set a dangerous precedent. Now the fanbase wants blood after every loss. Give a guy a full recruiting cycle to prove himself. Next year will be the 4th year for Charlie's "guys". If he fails to win 9 games next year. Then it might be time to make changes.

Agreed 100% Aaron..I wish we could just find a coach and stick with him whether CW is that guy or not, it remains to be seen..I do not want a revolving door at HC. What great coach in their right mind would want to come here if they know they only have 3 years or less to get this program back on top and win a MNC? Talk about pressure. I know this University strives for greatness and thats one of the reasons why I love ND but there is a fine line btw expecting greatness and being realistic.

 

[wahoo]

I don't think CW is the answer...I hate seeing the lack of progress and I am really unhappy with the lack of a good defense. I would not fire CW just for the sake of making a change. It's time to get a plan in place....use a search comittee to find a QUALIFIED candidate and go get him!

 

[MeanGreen]

I agree to give him another year and next year better be a great one. Look at the schedule and the only two tough one that stick out are MSU and USC. Hey we could get hit with a ton of injuries and be down again, but baring injuries or suspensions 9 - 2 and if you could steal one of those games it would prove you are a good coach.
However, my problem with firing him now is we have just fired two coaches after 3 and 4 years. Who would come here if they think they are on a short leash? What if the next guy wins with the 09 schedule, but if it get more difficult in 10 and 11 and he produces 6 - 6. Are we starting a merry-go-round that kills the program for sure? There really is no easy answer to this, unless there is a proven winner out there that has secretly told the BOT he wants the job, we need to see what CW can do. His first order of business is to improve his staff.

 

[Irishkid23]

I agree to give him another year and next year better be a great one. Look at the schedule and the only two tough one that stick out are MSU and USC. Hey we could get hit with a ton of injuries and be down again, but baring injuries or suspensions 9 - 2 and if you could steal one of those games it would prove you are a good coach.
However, my problem with firing him now is we have just fired two coaches after 3 and 4 years. Who would come here if they think they are on a short leash? What if the next guy wins with the 09 schedule, but if it get more difficult in 10 and 11 and he produces 6 - 6. Are we starting a merry-go-round that kills the program for sure? There really is no easy answer to this, unless there is a proven winner out there that has secretly told the BOT he wants the job, we need to see what CW can do. His first order of business is to improve his staff.

If Weis has another bad year, it will put ND back another 4 to 5 years because recruiting will be dismal.

He has to go NOW! We need a solid, experienced "college" coach.

 

[tankjeep]

Is it Charlie Weis' fault that the program has been mismanaged since Holtz left? At least Weis has shown that he can get results with talented upperclassmen. Have we forgotten how Lou's last couple of years went? Lou was fired for a reason. So was Davie, So was Ty Willingham. At some point you are going to have to give SOMEBODY a chance to sink or swim. If not Charlie now, then WHO and WHEN? Do we throw money at an unproven Dantonio or Brian Kelly and fire them in 3 years when they fail to deliver a National Championship? I said it here before. The worst think about the firing of Ty Willingham is that it set a dangerous precedent. Now the fanbase wants blood after every loss. Give a guy a full recruiting cycle to prove himself. Next year will be the 4th year for Charlie's "guys". If he fails to win 9 games next year. Then it might be time to make changes.

well put. i know that a head coach shouldn't be learning on the fly, but essentially that's what cw has been doing. he's done a great job recruiting, but he's still learning the ins and outs of college football. let's give him one more year to see if he has in fact learned something. i'll probably get ripped for saying that, but i just think that nd will make the situation worse if they fire cw now. recruiting would most likely suffer, kids would transfer and then the rebuilding would have to happen....again.

by this time next season, if cw doesn't have a bcs team, then see ya later. at least, by this time next year, he'll have more talent here and a better foundation for the next coach to come in and run with it.

let the ripping commence.....

 

[IrishAddiction]

Continuely firing coaches isnt going to improve our program..... letting charlie know he needs some improvement in the staff around him, aka latina, could help. Charlie isnt going to lose his job, and shouldnt, at least this year anyway. Link below helps explain why.

Hansen: Weis’ recruiting could save his job - Notre Dame Central- nbcsports.msnbc.com

 

[irishfan1122]

continuely firing coaches isnt going to improve our program..... Letting charlie know he needs some improvement in the staff around him, aka latina, could help. Charlie isnt going to lose his job, and shouldnt, at least this year anyway. Link below helps explain why.

hansen: Weis’ recruiting could save his job - notre dame central- nbcsports.msnbc.com

i couldn't disagree more. The choice is this:

What hurts your program more? A coaching carousel or a team that fails to meet expectations, underachieves, and loses on a consistent basis?

I'll go with the latter.

 

[mooneytostle]

Continuely firing coaches isnt going to improve our program..... letting charlie know he needs some improvement in the staff around him, aka latina, could help. Charlie isnt going to lose his job, and shouldnt, at least this year anyway. Link below helps explain why.

Hansen: Weis’ recruiting could save his job - Notre Dame Central- nbcsports.msnbc.com

1) um. letting charlie know that he needs some improvement in the staff around him? Who in their right mind would want to come here as an assistant when Weis likely has one year left? No one. Weis has lost the window of hiring good assistants to his staff. He sealed his fate by hiring a first time offensive coordinator with no play calling experience, a first time defensive coordinator with no scheming experience, a first time quarterbacks coach (who is probably poisoning clausen with everything little thing he teaches him), etc.

2) I was a Weis apologist for a long time - mostly b/c he finally started bringing in the types of recruiting classes that are expected at ND. That does not give him a free pass. Gerry Faust brought in three #1 recruiting classes in a row. Lou then brought in #1 recruiting classes. Davie had some fairly elite classes...the point is that it is expected to get the best talent in the country to come here. Just because Willingham didn't recruit well doesn't give Weis a pass b/c he is doing what other coaches did before Willingham. There is no excuse for the performance of this football team - particularly the fact that we can only get aprox. 40 yards on the ground against the 108 ranked rushing defense in the country. Weis is in over his head. He doesn't know how to fix it. And he needs to be shown the door (provided a suitable replacement is attainable - which there might not be).

 

[Echo Insanity]

im all for showing him the door if we can get a top tier coach to replace him. the next coach at ND has to be a special talent, and i just dont see anybody like that this year. I dont buy into the "anybody but weis" argument. we will most likely have to live with the next hire for at least 4 years, it is therefore imperitive that we dont settle for a mere upgrade from weis.

 

[kmoose]

If Weis has another bad year, it will put ND back another 4 to 5 years because recruiting will be dismal.

He has to go NOW! We need a solid, experienced "college" coach.

Yeah, because being 3-9 last year has really killed recruiting at ND?

If you're looking to convince someone that Weis needs to go; bringing up recruiting will only hurt your cause, not help it.

 

[aaronb]

1) um. letting charlie know that he needs some improvement in the staff around him? Who in their right mind would want to come here as an assistant when Weis likely has one year left? No one. Weis has lost the window of hiring good assistants to his staff. He sealed his fate by hiring a first time offensive coordinator with no play calling experience, a first time defensive coordinator with no scheming experience, a first time quarterbacks coach (who is probably poisoning clausen with everything little thing he teaches him), etc.

2) I was a Weis apologist for a long time - mostly b/c he finally started bringing in the types of recruiting classes that are expected at ND. That does not give him a free pass. Gerry Faust brought in three #1 recruiting classes in a row. Lou then brought in #1 recruiting classes. Davie had some fairly elite classes...the point is that it is expected to get the best talent in the country to come here. Just because Willingham didn't recruit well doesn't give Weis a pass b/c he is doing what other coaches did before Willingham. There is no excuse for the performance of this football team - particularly the fact that we can only get aprox. 40 yards on the ground against the 108 ranked rushing defense in the country. Weis is in over his head. He doesn't know how to fix it. And he needs to be shown the door (provided a suitable replacement is attainable - which there might not be).

So it isnt relavent that Willingham left the cupboard bare in the Sophomore/freshman classes? This team has less than 10 legitimate D1 players in the senior and 5th year classes. Just because we are tired of hearing about it, doesnt mean it doesnt hold water. Next year will be the 4th year of "Charlie's guys". If he fails with them then toast him.

 

[kmoose]

I was a Weis apologist for a long time - mostly b/c he finally started bringing in the types of recruiting classes that are expected at ND. That does not give him a free pass. Gerry Faust brought in three #1 recruiting classes in a row.

1) I'm not sure you can substantiate this claim, since I don't think there were recruiting services actually ranking classes back in the Faust days.

2) Even if you could, it's an unfair comparison. Faust may have had what was generally perceived to be a great class, just because of the sheer numbers. Faust didn't have an 85 scholarship limit to contend with(neither did Holtz, pre-1994). He could just offer every All-State player in California, Texas, Florida, Pennsylvania, and Ohio. The University could afford it, and then they could compete with each for the starting positions.