Yep. Five deep at every position. Let em fight it out and keep the guy that might kick your ass on your sideline instead of the other teams sideline. Remember the Nebraska teams? They had clones. Five deep!
Does firing CW solve anything?
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Yep. Five deep at every position. Let em fight it out and keep the guy that might kick your ass on your sideline instead of the other teams sideline. Remember the Nebraska teams? They had clones. Five deep!
Irishkid23
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Moose:
The team has not responded in weeks to Weis or the staff. B&G's Tom Pagna said in his article that the team basically "QUIT." Throw in the comments by team members after the game and he looks to be correct.
Last years recruiting was good because as was said we were rebuilding. What's this years excuse with having better players playing and not performing? Still rebuilding? The point is that recruiting will begin to take a hit and suffer after the Syracuse debacle. Recruits see the performance on the field and it's not pretty. My guess is that none of the visiting recruits at that game will commit to ND. I hope I'm wrong.
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ODUIRISH
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I have to say give him one more year...
I have to say give him one more year...
CW proved last year that he can land the bigtime recuits even with a horrible year on the field. He seems poised to do it again. Next year he will have 2 pretty good class's and one outstanding class of his recuits. If things show much inprovement next year, then keep it going. If it is much the same, then at the very least we are giving the incoming coach a full cubboard of talent to work with.
There were some other posts about the O line. I think we desperately need a change in the O-line coach. We have way to much talent there to be as bad as we are in the trenches. This is a prime example of poor coaching. Mendoza needs to go too. If Charlie can make these changes, keep the recruits coming in, then I think he can be successful. We will see though...
I have to say give him one more year...
CW proved last year that he can land the bigtime recuits even with a horrible year on the field. He seems poised to do it again. Next year he will have 2 pretty good class's and one outstanding class of his recuits. If things show much inprovement next year, then keep it going. If it is much the same, then at the very least we are giving the incoming coach a full cubboard of talent to work with.
There were some other posts about the O line. I think we desperately need a change in the O-line coach. We have way to much talent there to be as bad as we are in the trenches. This is a prime example of poor coaching. Mendoza needs to go too. If Charlie can make these changes, keep the recruits coming in, then I think he can be successful. We will see though...
To answer the question of the original post, does firing CW solve anything?
It solves a lot.
I've always like Weis but it's just not working he's lost the students, alumni and the media PR is killing the program.
We've got to take off the rose colored glasses and see that everything is far from being alright. These recent teams have been awful and this season's record is deceiving because the wins come from garbage teams.
There is no reason why ND is this bad beyond coaching. Sure the defense doens't have the best DL but it's decent. But the offense is a different story there is plenty of good to great talent and we get this crappy offense.
So unless ND is awesome next season under Weis it's just delaying the inevitable and delaying progress. I'm sure that we all agree that with Weis back or not the recruiting class is going to suffer and it will only be worse next season with a lame duck head coach.
However if he stay's he's already burned a lot of bridges and he threw the OC under the bus so I doubt any of the potential attractive OC hire's will want to come to ND under Weis.
So IMO now is the time to make the change and get on with things and try to rescue this recruiting class and start fresh with the next class. The offensive talent is there to be good quick but ND has to get a top notch coach that can recruit and they need to spend whatever it take to make it happen of this program will never even come close to being elite again. They need the complete package because great coaches who can't recruit can't win at the level ND is expected to play at and as we've seen with Weis it takes more than just hard work and being a great recruiter.
It solves a lot.
I've always like Weis but it's just not working he's lost the students, alumni and the media PR is killing the program.
We've got to take off the rose colored glasses and see that everything is far from being alright. These recent teams have been awful and this season's record is deceiving because the wins come from garbage teams.
There is no reason why ND is this bad beyond coaching. Sure the defense doens't have the best DL but it's decent. But the offense is a different story there is plenty of good to great talent and we get this crappy offense.
So unless ND is awesome next season under Weis it's just delaying the inevitable and delaying progress. I'm sure that we all agree that with Weis back or not the recruiting class is going to suffer and it will only be worse next season with a lame duck head coach.
However if he stay's he's already burned a lot of bridges and he threw the OC under the bus so I doubt any of the potential attractive OC hire's will want to come to ND under Weis.
So IMO now is the time to make the change and get on with things and try to rescue this recruiting class and start fresh with the next class. The offensive talent is there to be good quick but ND has to get a top notch coach that can recruit and they need to spend whatever it take to make it happen of this program will never even come close to being elite again. They need the complete package because great coaches who can't recruit can't win at the level ND is expected to play at and as we've seen with Weis it takes more than just hard work and being a great recruiter.
Fire Charlie
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Yes, it solves a lot of things.
I'm from the greater Boston area, so I'll use BC for an example: How in the hell does BC have a better record than us? We have more talent, just as easy as a schedule, everything. What's the 1 difference? Hmm. A head coach, perhaps?
I'm from the greater Boston area, so I'll use BC for an example: How in the hell does BC have a better record than us? We have more talent, just as easy as a schedule, everything. What's the 1 difference? Hmm. A head coach, perhaps?
Dacian_Irish
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Do you know anything about college football?
Did you know that BC team had 9 fifth year seniors. The BC team is not more talented they are just more experienced!
Nine guys stayed there for five years? Hell, I would have graduated from that hell-hole two years early just get out of there. Those guys are troopers for certain. No wonder they kicked our ass.
IrishAlum1997
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I'm flipping my script. Unless Urban Meyer decides heading to South Bend is a good move, give Charlie one more year to get it clickin'. I don't want us to whore for a flavor-of-the-month kind of coach. Sell your soul, or reap what you sow.
NeuteredDoomer
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T
tjirish34
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Firing Weiss not the only issue. Blame Alumni
Firing Weiss not the only issue. Blame Alumni
I am irish catholic. I went to Ireland in 96 see ND play Navy. I did not go to Notre Dame but have been a huge fan since a child until recently... The worst thing a fan can be is not angry his fav team dissapoints. But fan apathy. I have that now. Someone in a sports bar was teasing me about ND loss to Syracuse and I shrugged my shoulders. I don't even care anymore. I have watched ND sporadically this year. I saw early on that Weiss was full of bluster more than bite. CW is a b_llsh_tter. If he stays on ND success will always be just around the corner. The reason I don't like Charlie runs deeper than his coaching. I don't like Charlie the man. When Weiss was hired. He showed total arrogance at his first press conference. Talking about his SuperBowl rings as Patriot Off Co. I believe Brady did pretty well after Charlie left. I remember a reporter asking Charlie a question and Charlie was like "I don't have to answer to you because you never played the game." Well I played the game in High School. I know a fraud when I see one. Charlie is a fraud. That's partly why he does recruit well. He is a good bs'er. It's become a natonal joke regarding Charlie's blaming others riff. I get feeling the players don't like Charlie. That he blames them for his errors. Team struggling. Charlie say's he is taking over play calling. Hidden message: It's the Off CO fault. Charlie bragged about the players who will come to ND because he knows how to get players to NFL. Well John Carlson was a good player. He did nothing last year but is pretty good in NFL as a rookie. Carlson not recruited by Charlie. I want to see how many ND players go to NFL in near term. According to recruiting analysis. ND has talent. I remember last year when analalyst said ND's OFF line lacked strength. You build that in the off season with a work out program. The personal fouls and dumb penalties by ND players last couple years. That is coaching. That is a team discipline issue which is coaching. Charlie reminds me of Mike Martz. A great NFL Offensive CO but a lousy head coach. Head coach needs to know when to call gambling calls and game management. The Michigan St game is another example. ND can't run ball. Which is a physical/mental man on man issue. Instead of going into lockerroom at half time and telling the players "WE WILL RUN THE BALL IN 2ND HALF" and devising a run strategy. Charlie basically tells players "you know what. We are banging our heads here. We just are not tough enough to run on MSU. So we will pass almost every play in second half" losing any off balance and basically conceding a strategic point to MSU. This is lousy head coaching to a T.
I will get off Charlie and speak to my real point. Why alumni hurt ND's chances of winning. The ND alumni live in the past. Before fans talk about winning championships. How about ND gets ranked or wins a freaking bowl game first? I believe ND should have joined the BIG 10. Look at Penn St. They joined the Big 10 after being independent. Of course the NBC contract is lucrative which is why joining BIG 10 won't happen in football. The NBC contract was the worst thing ever happen to ND football. It gave the administration no reason to win and catered to the network. The cross country difficult schedules being another reason. Kids today know they can play anywhere and be noticed. The schedule has been softened up and yet ND still is losing. So blame Charlie their. Also blame the ND administration with it's high and might attitude that ND is different then most didvision 1 schools. Cause it is not other than being a Catholic university that has a great curriculumn. My point? If you want a great coach at Notre Dame. One with a know how of how to win at ND. ND will have to pay the piper. Whoever gave Charlie that extension should be fired. I suspect that extension was OK'd by priests involved in the athletic department. Which is something else needs to be rectified. Let the AD people run the sports dept and Priests stay out. Notre Dame should pay off Charlie. But in this tough economic environment. Finding alumni help may not be easy. ND should then pay BIG money and offer the job to someone like Bob Stoops of Oklahoma. You throw enough green at anyone they will come to Notre Dame. In short Notre Dame needs to get off it's high horse and acknowledge past mistakes and do what any other big time football school would do. Hire a great coach and pay him. Plus give said coach what he needs to win. For those of you disagree with me. I suggest you take those blue & gold colored glasses off and look at reality.
Firing Weiss not the only issue. Blame Alumni
I am irish catholic. I went to Ireland in 96 see ND play Navy. I did not go to Notre Dame but have been a huge fan since a child until recently... The worst thing a fan can be is not angry his fav team dissapoints. But fan apathy. I have that now. Someone in a sports bar was teasing me about ND loss to Syracuse and I shrugged my shoulders. I don't even care anymore. I have watched ND sporadically this year. I saw early on that Weiss was full of bluster more than bite. CW is a b_llsh_tter. If he stays on ND success will always be just around the corner. The reason I don't like Charlie runs deeper than his coaching. I don't like Charlie the man. When Weiss was hired. He showed total arrogance at his first press conference. Talking about his SuperBowl rings as Patriot Off Co. I believe Brady did pretty well after Charlie left. I remember a reporter asking Charlie a question and Charlie was like "I don't have to answer to you because you never played the game." Well I played the game in High School. I know a fraud when I see one. Charlie is a fraud. That's partly why he does recruit well. He is a good bs'er. It's become a natonal joke regarding Charlie's blaming others riff. I get feeling the players don't like Charlie. That he blames them for his errors. Team struggling. Charlie say's he is taking over play calling. Hidden message: It's the Off CO fault. Charlie bragged about the players who will come to ND because he knows how to get players to NFL. Well John Carlson was a good player. He did nothing last year but is pretty good in NFL as a rookie. Carlson not recruited by Charlie. I want to see how many ND players go to NFL in near term. According to recruiting analysis. ND has talent. I remember last year when analalyst said ND's OFF line lacked strength. You build that in the off season with a work out program. The personal fouls and dumb penalties by ND players last couple years. That is coaching. That is a team discipline issue which is coaching. Charlie reminds me of Mike Martz. A great NFL Offensive CO but a lousy head coach. Head coach needs to know when to call gambling calls and game management. The Michigan St game is another example. ND can't run ball. Which is a physical/mental man on man issue. Instead of going into lockerroom at half time and telling the players "WE WILL RUN THE BALL IN 2ND HALF" and devising a run strategy. Charlie basically tells players "you know what. We are banging our heads here. We just are not tough enough to run on MSU. So we will pass almost every play in second half" losing any off balance and basically conceding a strategic point to MSU. This is lousy head coaching to a T.
I will get off Charlie and speak to my real point. Why alumni hurt ND's chances of winning. The ND alumni live in the past. Before fans talk about winning championships. How about ND gets ranked or wins a freaking bowl game first? I believe ND should have joined the BIG 10. Look at Penn St. They joined the Big 10 after being independent. Of course the NBC contract is lucrative which is why joining BIG 10 won't happen in football. The NBC contract was the worst thing ever happen to ND football. It gave the administration no reason to win and catered to the network. The cross country difficult schedules being another reason. Kids today know they can play anywhere and be noticed. The schedule has been softened up and yet ND still is losing. So blame Charlie their. Also blame the ND administration with it's high and might attitude that ND is different then most didvision 1 schools. Cause it is not other than being a Catholic university that has a great curriculumn. My point? If you want a great coach at Notre Dame. One with a know how of how to win at ND. ND will have to pay the piper. Whoever gave Charlie that extension should be fired. I suspect that extension was OK'd by priests involved in the athletic department. Which is something else needs to be rectified. Let the AD people run the sports dept and Priests stay out. Notre Dame should pay off Charlie. But in this tough economic environment. Finding alumni help may not be easy. ND should then pay BIG money and offer the job to someone like Bob Stoops of Oklahoma. You throw enough green at anyone they will come to Notre Dame. In short Notre Dame needs to get off it's high horse and acknowledge past mistakes and do what any other big time football school would do. Hire a great coach and pay him. Plus give said coach what he needs to win. For those of you disagree with me. I suggest you take those blue & gold colored glasses off and look at reality.
NDOM
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Wowsers. Couldnt agree more from your very 1st post. Nice. I agree with EVERYTHING you said.
So, in a nutshell you are saying relax the admission standards for football players and hire Bob Stoops? Stoops aint coming. I would not rule out the Admissions Dept. lowering standards to let a few chosen ones in. I would not hold my breath though. We need some trench players thats all. We lose the battle of the line of scrimmage. More so on the offensive side but we lose on both sides by the end of the game. (4th quarter loses)
SoCalDomer
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right, because anyone who disagrees with you must be wrong. how did this site ever survive before the arbiter of truth arrived?
btw, the paragraph was invented a few years back.
kmoose
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I suggest you proofread your posts a bit, before hitting "Submit Reply".
I'm supposed to jump on board, with the analysis of a guy who can't even spell the object of his scorn's name right?
Hint: It's Weis, with one s, not Weiss.
NeuteredDoomer
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You raise some interesting points, but for some reason, I am reminded of "Blind Men and an Elephant."
"A group of blind men (or men in the dark) touch an elephant to learn what it is like. Each one touches a different part, but only one part, such as the side or the tusk. They then compare notes on what they felt, and learn they are in complete disagreement. The story is used to indicate that reality may be viewed differently depending upon one's perspective, suggesting that what seems an absolute truth may be relative due to the deceptive nature of half-truths." - I took that from Wiki
Dacian_Irish
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Irishkid23
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Yes. And if he leaves, then what? Who picks up the pieces?
This is CRAZY talk!!!
You are going to fire a guy who went to 2 BCS Bowls in his 1st 2 seasons, then had to restock the talent pool because it was bare, and now is about to land his 3rd Top 10 recruiting class...why? Next year the Irish will have at least 75 Top Flight Football players in their program (and in 2010 it will become 100!!!).
Like Charlie said last year, "Have fun now."...when responding to a question about people enjoying seeing ND loose.
This year was a 6 win season with a bunch of TRUE sophomores and freshmen...TRUE, not redshirts or 24 year-old parolees, TRUE sophomores and Freshmen!!! Next year is a 9+ season regardless of who the coach is.
You are going to fire a guy who went to 2 BCS Bowls in his 1st 2 seasons, then had to restock the talent pool because it was bare, and now is about to land his 3rd Top 10 recruiting class...why? Next year the Irish will have at least 75 Top Flight Football players in their program (and in 2010 it will become 100!!!).
Like Charlie said last year, "Have fun now."...when responding to a question about people enjoying seeing ND loose.
This year was a 6 win season with a bunch of TRUE sophomores and freshmen...TRUE, not redshirts or 24 year-old parolees, TRUE sophomores and Freshmen!!! Next year is a 9+ season regardless of who the coach is.