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NDVirginia19

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I don't think that the country should legally ban transition surgeries and therapy for adults, but I think we should for our children, and we certainly should not be using tax dollars to support/enable it at home and abroad.
 

BuaConstrictor

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Pope's John Paul and Francis have spoken in similar tones on Immigration, and I am all for a prudent and managed immigration process, not the wantonly mismanaged immigration process that has been taken advantage of by human and drug traffickers to overall ruin lives.
Might not want to vote for Trump then!


"
4. I have followed closely the major crisis that is taking place in the United States with the initiation of a program of mass deportations. The rightly formed conscience cannot fail to make a critical judgment and express its disagreement with any measure that tacitly or explicitly identifies the illegal status of some migrants with criminality. At the same time, one must recognize the right of a nation to defend itself and keep communities safe from those who have committed violent or serious crimes while in the country or prior to arrival. That said, the act of deporting people who in many cases have left their own land for reasons of extreme poverty, insecurity, exploitation, persecution or serious deterioration of the environment, damages the dignity of many men and women, and of entire families, and places them in a state of particular vulnerability and defenselessness.

5. This is not a minor issue: an authentic rule of law is verified precisely in the dignified treatment that all people deserve, especially the poorest and most marginalized. The true common good is promoted when society and government, with creativity and strict respect for the rights of all — as I have affirmed on numerous occasions — welcomes, protects, promotes and integrates the most fragile, unprotected and vulnerable. This does not impede the development of a policy that regulates orderly and legal migration. However, this development cannot come about through the privilege of some and the sacrifice of others. What is built on the basis of force, and not on the truth about the equal dignity of every human being, begins badly and will end badly."
I exhort all the faithful of the Catholic Church, and all men and women of good will, not to give in to narratives that discriminate against and cause unnecessary suffering to our migrant and refugee brothers and sisters. With charity and clarity we are all called to live in solidarity and fraternity, to build bridges that bring us ever closer together, to avoid walls of ignominy and to learn to give our lives as Jesus Christ gave his for the salvation of all.


10. Let us ask Our Lady of Guadalupe to protect individuals and families who live in fear or pain due to migration and/or deportation. May the “Virgen morena”, who knew how to reconcile peoples when they were at enmity, grant us all to meet again as brothers and sisters, within her embrace, and thus take a step forward in the construction of a society that is more fraternal, inclusive and respectful of the dignity of all.



Oh God, the Pope used the term "inclusive". This will go well.
 
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ColoradoIrish

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I don't think that the country should legally ban transition surgeries and therapy for adults, but I think we should for our children, and we certainly should not be using tax dollars to support/enable it at home and abroad.
I thought you're a proponent of small government and deregulation? Why should this be an exception to that?
 

NDVirginia19

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Please show me direct quotes from the catechism then, because when I search gender, gender ideology, or transgender nothing populates for me to back up your claims. And even if that does exist why just the country follow the Catholic churches teachings on it?
It is not directly addressed with those words, but Sections 369-373 discuss God's creation of Man and Woman as separate entities, and it's later discussion on homosexuality has been expanded upon by Pope Francis in his statements on transgenderism.
 
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ColoradoIrish

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It is not directly addressed with those words, but Sections 369-373 discuss God's creation of Man and Woman as separate entities, and it's later discussion on homosexuality has been expanded upon by Pope Francis in his statements on transgenderism.
Again why should the country and non Catholics have to follow the Catholics stance?
 

NDVirginia19

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Might not want to vote for Trump then!

Then I should vote for the party that advocates for on demand abortion? There won't ever be a candidate or Party that uniquely fits with my beliefs, and because I am an adult, I can reason between the choices and find who I think fits best with my values.
 

NDVirginia19

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Again why should the country and non Catholics have to follow the Catholics stance?
I think there are other a priori reasons that these principles can be shared among catholics and non catholics. Also Catholicism is the plurality religion in the US, it goes to figure that a great deal of policy will be impacted by Catholic sensibilities
 

BuaConstrictor

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ColoradoIrish

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Pope Francis called Gender Ideology "ideological colonization" that threatens human identity. In a 2015 interview, he said, "Gender ideology is demonic!"
And he has since been more welcoming. Allowing transgender people to be baptized and serve as God parents
 

BuaConstrictor

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Also Catholicism is the plurality religion in the US, it goes to figure that a great deal of policy will be impacted by Catholic sensibilities
Two issues here
1. "Protestant" is something close to 40% of the US population. Catholics hover around 20%.
2. Even ignoring Protestants, 30% of the country doesn't even affiliate with any religion. Shouldn't we be listening to them?
 

NDVirginia19

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And he has since been more welcoming. Allowing transgender people to be baptized and serve as God parents
You can still think that Transgender individuals can be baptized and serve as God parents while still thinking that the ideology and affirmation is wrong. Adulterers and drunkards can still be baptized and serve as God Parents, but that doesn't mean that the Church thinks those things are okay and continue to preach against it
 

BuaConstrictor

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In a 2015 interview, he said, "Gender ideology is demonic!"
and in 2019 he said that transgender individuals can be baptized and receive the sacraments!

and around we go!

Pope Francis has also welcomed transgender persons into the Church openly. There are isolated cases of transgender Sisters as well as transgender godparents. The Catholic Church isn't a monolith around the world.

and since we are so worried about taking our political queues from the Catholic Church I'm interested to know what the Church's views are on people that are adulterers, sexually assault women, and mock people with disabilities
 

NDVirginia19

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Yeah and there are other nuns and priests who commit sin every day. That doesn't mean that the Church believes those sins are okay and we should affirm them
 

NDVirginia19

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Two issues here
1. "Protestant" is something close to 40% of the US population. Catholics hover around 20%.
2. Even ignoring Protestants, 30% of the country doesn't even affiliate with any religion. Shouldn't we be listening to them?
We do, they get to vote as well
 
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ColoradoIrish

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You can still think that Transgender individuals can be baptized and serve as God parents while still thinking that the ideology and affirmation is wrong. Adulterers and drunkards can still be baptized and serve as God Parents, but that doesn't mean that the Church thinks those things are okay and continue to preach against it
Accepting transgender people into the church is literally an act of affirmation. It says the church sees them as people and that the church accepts them for who they are
 

NDVirginia19

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You welcome them into the church, you don't affirm the idea that they are actually supposed to be of the opposite sex and that they should transition.
 
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ColoradoIrish

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You welcome them into the church, you don't affirm the idea that they are actually supposed to be of the opposite sex and that they should transition.
That's exactly what they are doing tho. So it's counter to your taking points. They're not saying trans people that don't transition are welcome. They're welcoming transgender people who have transitioned into the church.
 

NDVirginia19

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That's exactly what they are doing tho. So it's counter to your taking points. They're not saying trans people that don't transition are welcome. They're welcoming transgender people who have transitioned into the church.
And they welcome people who are adulterers into the church, yet they still don't preach "actually adultering is okay". There are sinners who become priests, yet they don't "affirm" the sin.
 
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