Chris Stewart?!

[Irishtat]

In two years, we will be saying...that we wish we had Stewart starting at RG as a senior instead of some freshman. Crappy senior recruiting classes are the exact reason that we are in this position (0-4 start).

Now, the '06 class takes another hit. That class according to Rivals had two 5*, ten 4*, 15 3* and one 2*. We can talk about how we don't believe in the star ranking, but the fact of the matter is that we have now lost four of those 4* players.

Right now, this program is lower than it was during the Faust days, and I can't figure it out.

I doubt in two years we'll be saying that about Stewart. If he can't hit the field alongside fellow Sophomores & Freshmen that have beat him out now will it even matter then? Those fellow Soph/Frosh will be 2 years advanced at that point too. Sometimes upside just doesn't cut it... especially since we are all praying that are O-line we have now reaches theirs, and sooner rather than later (2 yrs) would be much better.

Maybe this link will help answer your question/comparison to the Faust days...or at least its a decent attempt...
http://www.irishenvy.com/forums/fig...ience-fair-project-post172968.html#post172968

 

[Irishtat]

This is getting blown way out of proportion. Every very successful program has transfers that are talented (the USuCk ones as noted).

One of the side effects of the ND youth movement are these transfers. Normally someone who is as talented as these guys would be ok with riding the pine for a while, but when everyone on the damn team is so young, and you are third/fourth string.... well it just looks bleak for your prospects of starting. Me personally, I would think 'Hey I'm the baddest mofo out there and I'm going to outwork them and take their spot'. For some I guess it's just a business decision where they will move on to better their odds of making it to that pro career.

I'd like for every player to come to ND willing to stick it out and be happy finishing with a fantastic degree at the end of their time in South Bend. But the fact is these kids want a pro career and if that means making academics a secondary priority, some are willing to do just that. I'm not suggesting Big Stew is not smart in any way, he just wants to take those 340 lbs to play on sundays, and didn't think he could do it here.

Once we are only starting one or two freshman tops, there won't be as many transfers because players will realize they have to wait to play. This is just another crappy side-effect of our previous recruiting issues and the bottom-heavy classes.

Good luck wherever you go Big Stew.

Exactly! Props

 

[Irish93]

Trust me...I remember the Faust days. The only good thing about those days was that there was no NBC contract and we didn't have cable. So, I was forced to listen those games on the radio, instead of seeing the games in all of their glory.

You can never have enough OL. Sometimes it takes players longer to reach their potential. This is a kid that I hope comes back and realizes that he needs ND and ND needs him.

The 2006 is so crucial because it is CW's first class. We can ill afford to have this class dwindle because of a little competition. Even if Stewart never hits the field, he could be a tremendous role model for the younger kids coming in. Right now, there are few in the upperclasses that fill that mold.

 

[Irish93]

Exactly! Props

Every program doesn't have two sucky classes in the junior and senior ranks. Normally, I wouldn't necessarily have a problem. And, frankly I really didn't have too much of a problem with the first three that left.

But, this is getting out of hand, and happening at a time when the program can least afford a PR hit.

 

[piyachi]

PR is spin, pure and simple. It's what feeds the (that guy that does Page 2) and Mark Mays of the world. It's the lack of concern about PR (that makes some people nuts about ND not defending itself), that makes ND, ND. Relaxxxxx. The recruits coming in have already said they are excited to see the other talented players in their class and aren't changing their minds, so who cares if this gives fodder to people who have no in-depth knowledge of the program. They were idiots to begin with, and will continue to be idiots. The things that attract kids to Notre Dame don't change because NDSPN decides to write negative stories to attract readers (or attempt to attract them - I no longer read/watch espn).

There isn't anything getting out of hand. If you're 21 have a beer and sit and chill. If you're under 21 have a beer, sit and chill.

Also a side note - he hasn't decided to transfer yet, he's taking a break to talk things over with his parents who want him to stay.

GO IRISH

 

[Irish93]

I think that you are missing the point. All signs point to something being very wrong with the program. Even in the worst of times you didn't have 0-4 starts and players transferring.

I'm not normally a guy that freaks out at these things. But, I've been following ND football for 30 years, and had a close up view for 4 years. I've never seen anything like this. I just hope I'm wrong.

 

[johnnd05]

Guys, just FYI, it's not 100% clear that he's left for good. His father says Chris is just homesick, and he's going to try to get him to go back. I just wrote something about this for the Roundup - here you go: The Irish Roundup: A bit more on the latest news.

 

[piyachi]

I think that you are missing the point. All signs point to something being very wrong with the program. Even in the worst of times you didn't have 0-4 starts and players transferring.

I'm not normally a guy that freaks out at these things. But, I've been following ND football for 30 years, and had a close up view for 4 years. I've never seen anything like this. I just hope I'm wrong.

Not to get snippy, but I don't think I am.

We have an unusual situation in that there are starters across the board who are youngsters, and backups that are also youngsters. Some are going to leave, its reality. As for 0-4.... not much to say about that other than beat Purdon't.

Color me worried when players like Allen or Hughes or Clausen or Kamara or Neal or Smith start to leave. Or even when a player says how they don't like the direction the program is going in. Or that they have issues with Coach Weis. Or when we aren't holding the nations top recruiting class with players that WANT to come here and play for Weis (and are smart, skilled, and seem to love the school). Even the people that leave (including DD under some not-so-happy conditions) have nothing to say but good things.

I know an 0-4 start makes some people panicky, and it's cool if you're included in that group. But I can't seem to find a real analysis where things point to a bleak future as opposed to a bright one. Worrying doesn't win games unless you're a head coach, so nothing to do about this one but see what happens.

GO IRISH

 

[JeremyND07]

OK if this is a "youth movement" why are all the guys transfering sophomores? 17 players have transfered under Weis' watch....that is a lot!!!! I cannot imagine any top program having close to that many. I agree with Irish93 something is VERY wrong! I also agree that Weis needs to start treating the players like the kids they are not restricted free agents!!!

 

[Junkhead]

Its not a good trend, even if the kids aren't starters. I think Weis might still be learning that these are kids, not NFL prima donnas. I hope it doesn't mean anything, but it sure doesn't look good to have so many is 3 weeks.

 

[piyachi]

OK if this is a "youth movement" why are all the guys transfering sophomores? 17 players have transfered under Weis' watch....that is a lot!!!! I cannot imagine any top program having close to that many. I agree with Irish93 something is VERY wrong! I also agree that Weis needs to start treating the players like the kids they are not restricted free agents!!!

OY

Ok see my post on the previous page because I don't feel like explaining my thoughts on it for a third time. What makes you think that Weis is treating them like 'restricted free agents'? Have you been in the lockerroom with them? Have you been at the practices? One thing Weis has publicly stated that he stresses is the need to treat each player differently, since different people react positively/negatively to certain ways of being coached (ie yelling at one player fires them up while only demoralizing another).

From their 2006 class, the USuCk Trojans have lost 6 players, who are almost undoubtedly 4/5 star players since thats the bulk of their roster. That's with a coach that has won a NC there and has been there for over 5 years. Maybe the USuCk fans should freak out? We have lost a lot of transfers due to:

a - The coaching turnover - this always happens when coaches switch
b - The talent levels - we have young players who can overtake older players
c - The program growth - High level programs lose people because they recruit great players who dont want to ride the bench

 

[Irish93]

Again, I think that a program like USC is better equiped to withstand the loss of 6 players. We may get to that point, but we aren't there now.

Let's not kid ourselves. The reason why so many freshman and sophmores are starting is because there are no juniors or seniors to compete with them. I'm not saying that those players aren't good, but the lack of depth has caused this situation. Again, I blame the lack of depth on Willingham, not Weis. But, if we continue to lose players that will make up the core of our future team, we will be talking about the lack of depth in 2009, and at that point, it will only be Weis to blame.

I really hope that Stewart decides to return. I truly believe that there is a substantial role for him on this team.

 

[johnnd05]

OK if this is a "youth movement" why are all the guys transfering sophomores? 17 players have transfered under Weis' watch....that is a lot!!!! I cannot imagine any top program having close to that many. I agree with Irish93 something is VERY wrong! I also agree that Weis needs to start treating the players like the kids they are not restricted free agents!!!

The whole "Weis has had 17 players transfer" (actually it's only 16, since Stewart's situation is still up in the air) statistic is really misleading, and I wish people would stop citing it. (Thanks, SB Trib!) The vast majority of those transfers were "Ty's Guys", and they left because of the head coaching change, which was hardly Weis's fault. Let's keep our heads on straight.

 

[Akron Irish]

Its sad to have a society in which 20 yr olds get mad and quit when they don't get the playing time they believe they deserve. Try going out and earning it. Blow guys up in practice, be the first one to practice, and the last one to leave, work harder than everyone else. I can tell you CW doesn't play favorites. If you show that you have it off the field, you'll get a fair shot on the field.
This crap about transferring to another school for PT is ridiculous. If you were good enough to make it to ND, you are good enough to play at ND. But nobody is going to give it to you, you have to take it.

 

[SillyIrish]

Look at the guys that left to this date Zach who was burried in the QB depth chart. DD who couldn't stomach not starting. Konrad who was also on the bottom with a freshman above him, and now possibly Stewart who hasn't even seen the field this year.

I'm going to walk around looking up for the rest of the season since so many ND fans will be jumping off of buildings and bridges.

 

[Irish93]

The whole "Weis has had 17 players transfer" (actually it's only 16, since Stewart's situation is still up in the air) statistic is really misleading, and I wish people would stop citing it. (Thanks, SB Trib!) The vast majority of those transfers were "Ty's Guys", and they left because of the head coaching change, which was hardly Weis's fault. Let's keep our heads on straight.

I agree that the quote is very misleading. Those transfers were clearly a result of players that did not fit into Weis' system, and were arguably not as talented as the players that Weis was bringing in.

Look at the guys that left to this date Zach who was burried in the QB depth chart. DD who couldn't stomach not starting. Konrad who was also on the bottom with a freshman above him, and now possibly Stewart who hasn't even seen the field this year.

I'm going to walk around looking up for the rest of the season since so many ND fans will be jumping off of buildings and bridges.

I agree that the transfers will probably not hurt on the field so much. But, I think that it shows that the perceived quality of the 2006 recruiting class was bolstered by depth positions. When you take those recruits off the list, the 2006 class looks rather ordinary (good, but ordinary).

Today is not problem. I'm worried about when this 2006 group are seniors. That is when their losses will be felt (maybe not Zach and DD), but certainly KR and Stewart (if he leaves). We can say that KR and Stewart aren't contributing today, but who knows what injuries could happen, etc. Depth is your friend, and the losses of KR and CS are reducing that depth.

 

[jonesman]

I will say that if you look at the kids who transferred up until this year it is because they should have NEVER been at ND in the first place. Most were barely D-1 caliber athletes. If you look where these kids transferred to, this will tell you what kind of athlete they are. Most are at schools like Middle Tennessee, Delaware, and the likes. Not exactly football powerhouses. If these kids were great athletes, they would be transferring to another high level D-1 program. Reality is most of them were last minute bandaids to save Willinghams 04 and 05 classes. Shame on you Ty. He did not just short change ND, but also these kids by giving them a false sense that they belonged at ND. They would have been better starting where they fit in, MAC level programs.

 

[piyachi]

Again, I think that a program like USC is better equiped to withstand the loss of 6 players. We may get to that point, but we aren't there now.

Let's not kid ourselves. The reason why so many freshman and sophmores are starting is because there are no juniors or seniors to compete with them. I'm not saying that those players aren't good, but the lack of depth has caused this situation. Again, I blame the lack of depth on Willingham, not Weis. But, if we continue to lose players that will make up the core of our future team, we will be talking about the lack of depth in 2009, and at that point, it will only be Weis to blame.

I really hope that Stewart decides to return. I truly believe that there is a substantial role for him on this team.

I agree with almost all of this - but I would lay the accountability on the individual, not the coach. Weis has played a ton of kids, and does seem to live up to his promise to play the best player - whether it be a 5th year or a freshman. Can't really expect him to do much more than that to retain people unless he wants to act like Carroll (HA! that's a girls name) and be buddies with everyone. Kids leaving is their decision, and as DD said, if he talked to Weis he thought Weis would have talked him out of transferring.

We aren't built to withstand losing too much depth but it's a steadily improving situation. I think we will be just fine in 09.

 

[Sureal]

If our coaches feel that they shouldn't be getting any PT then I trust their judgement.
If they think they can do better elsewhere then God Bless You and I wish you the best. Are we gaining these scholarships? If so when? Move on. Plain and simple.

 

[The Polish Irishman]

My agruement would be a lot of people have pointed to the 06 and 07 recruiting classes as the rebirth of ND Football. Claiming before this year, a NC in 08, but not I hear 09 perchance beyond that. A lot people said CW's 06 recruiting class is great, but we have lost 4 players buried in the depth chart, but was not the Shark buried in this depth chart once. Kids grow a ton when they are in college, heck I put on 60 pounds. Losing these recruits is goign to hurt ND in long run. I believe all of us saw Stewart as a project, but a future starter along the line. He is a mountain of a man and needed some great coaching. I hate to say it right now the program is in bad shape..think about this, If I would have said before the season started that ND would be 0-4 giving up over 30 points a games and only scored 2 offensive TDs and lost 4 4star recruits...everyone would have calle me nuts...yes the future is bright, but can not come fast enough..GO IRISH..we need a win in the worst way possible, winning cures all

 

[PADOMERNUT]

The program is not in bad shape and anyone that thinks that is just misguided. Lets think outside the box people. This 0-4 start has everyone blinded. This will all just be a distant memory soon. They will have everyone back next year and possibly the #1 recruiting class

 

[Sureal]

This program is taking hits right now but it isn't in bad shape. Like you said look to the future...

Adversity--Perseverance--Character

ND will be ok.

 

[JeremyND07]

I keep hearing the "youth movement" argument...these are soph that still have a lot of potential! I still see Stewart and Reuland being great players. The only transfer that I can remember in awhile that did anything great after leaving ND was Greg Olsen. I am not as concerned with the 0-4 start as I am about all this depth leaving and the lack of development along the OL. I have a lot of the hope for the future but the present...well we are in bad shape!

 

[PADOMERNUT]

i dont see stewart ever being a great player. if he was he would have at least gotten a look so far. He is big yes, but it takes more than size to be a great offensive lineman. That being said, i wish him nothing but the best in whatever he decides. good luck chris.....

 

[Akron Irish]

I keep hearing the "youth movement" argument...these are soph that still have a lot of potential! I still see Stewart and Ragone being great players. The only transfer that I can remember in awhile that did anything great after leaving ND was Greg Olsen. I am not as concerned with the 0-4 start as I am about all this depth leaving and the lack of development along the OL. I have a lot of the hope for the future but the present...well we are in bad shape!

I agree Ragone will be great. But Reuland is the one that is transferring

 

[JeremyND07]

Wow...maybe that was just premonition. We do have (2) very talented TE's coming in next year

ok I messed up...all fixed.

 

[Z-Bo]

So what your telling me is a kid who couldn't manage to get his pads low on defense and weighs 350 was getting blown off the ball in practice and is now transferring?

Where's the problem?