Chicago White Sox... The thread.

[Crazy Balki]

Bring back Ozzie!

Hard pass.

Ozzie has managed in the majors in 8 years, and he really lost his touch in his final few years in Chicago.

His schtick would be endearing for a few years, but wear thin after awhile. And that is a best case scenario.

 

[Rogue219]

Sandy Alomar Jr.
Mike Espada
Bob Geren

In that order.

Would not touch Hinch, Cora, Ozzie, Pierzynski, Bochy, Showalter, Gardenhire, LaRussa or any former Sox player or former dinosaur manager that isn't with the times.

Take your Hawk Harrelson list and toss it. Think better.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Sandy Alomar Jr.
Mike Espada
Bob Geren

In that order.

Would not touch Hinch, Cora, Ozzie, Pierzynski, Bochy, Showalter, Gardenhire, LaRussa or any former Sox player or former dinosaur manager that isn't with the times.

Take your Hawk Harrelson list and toss it. Think better.

Alomar is a name that's been discussed ever since Ozzie was getting the axe. I think if he was going to be a big name manager, it would've happened by now, but he's been a coach in Cleveland for a decade and nobody has decided to take him.

Espada and Geren are intriguing options, but I'm definitely not with you when it comes to not touching Hinch or Cora.

I think most fans would chastise Bill Belichick as a cheater for Spygate, but if Belichick decided he wanted to leave New England and coach the Bears, I think every fan in Chicago would welcome him with open arms.

It's similar to how we feel about Urban Meyer. Yeah, we detest him and find him morally reprehensible, but if he decided to come to ND, I'm pretty sure we'd forget a lot of that pretty quickly once he started winning games and landing high-end recruits.

 

[Rogue219]

Alomar is a name that's been discussed ever since Ozzie was getting the axe. I think if he was going to be a big name manager, it would've happened by now, but he's been a coach in Cleveland for a decade and nobody has decided to take him.

Espada and Geren are intriguing options, but I'm definitely not with you when it comes to not touching Hinch or Cora.

I think most fans would chastise Bill Belichick as a cheater for Spygate, but if Belichick decided he wanted to leave New England and coach the Bears, I think every fan in Chicago would welcome him with open arms.

It's similar to how we feel about Urban Meyer. Yeah, we detest him and find him morally reprehensible, but if he decided to come to ND, I'm pretty sure we'd forget a lot of that pretty quickly once he started winning games and landing high-end recruits.

I guess your assessment of Alomar is fair, though we're talking about one of THE good ol boy networks when it comes to hiring practices. Now that most of these front offices are being run by degreed Ivy League types, if he's not anyone's guy, he's never going to be. I think he'd be a great bench coach/assistant manager at worst.

You're getting that baggage with Hinch and Cora. Simple as that. You can also take your time and wait until the season is over with before you move to make a final decision. There are four teams still playing and they all may well have candidates on their staff you may want to talk to. There is no reason to rush into hiring Hinch or Cora.

I think you want Hinch or Cora before Ozzie, Pierzynski, Thome and the dinosaur names that were coming out. Can someone explain to me this fan base's obession with hiring former players to front office and coaching positions? This hasn't been one of the more visible post season franchises in the American League. Sentiment? Nostalgia? What gets you closest to a championship?

I was surprised at the amount of baseball pundits on Twitter who were penciling in Hinch or Cora as the next manager before the ink on Renteria's walking papers was even dry. Is this based on knowledge from sources in the Sox camp or the camps of Hinch or Cora? Nobody could have seen them hire Renteria or Robin Ventura coming, but they did. I think people may end up surprised at who winds up getting this gig. I just hope it is a good surprise.

Bob Nightengale reported that Tony LaRussa is a candidate. If that's true, go hire Hinch, Cora, Belichick or Urban Meyer. What an utter disaster of a stunt that would be.

Whoever the manager is, his pitching coach or pitching coaches is going to be vital for this team going forward. They should also open up their wallets and go find a couple more starters while their window is open.

 

[Southside Sully]

I like Sandy Alomar Jr. I don't want anyone associated with cheating, and having that cloud hangover this team, who doesn't need that distraction at every turn.

 

[Rogue219]

I like Sandy Alomar Jr. I don't want anyone associated with cheating, and having that cloud hangover this team, who doesn't need that distraction at every turn.

I like him too. Why he has not been hired to be a manager I can only guess. Could be a variety of reasons. He played in the pre analytics era, but he's also worked for Cleveland for a while, a club that embraces that and did so from the start. He's also a former catcher, and those guys tend to make good managers, in addition to being a Spanish speaking coach which would be a big plus for the White Sox right now. Maybe there are some glaring holes in his interviews that don't make him MLB 2021 manager material.

Hinch and Cora will be back. Whoever hires them, there will be stories for clickbait and most of them will chastise the club who hires them. I think some teams will be able to get away with it compared to others. The White Sox are probably not one of those.

Some of the same Chicago baseball beat guys who applauded the Cubs for firing Renteria and hiring Maddon a few years back are calling the White Sox cutthroats for doing the same thing yesterday. I am going to assume the Cubs have a bigger hold of the Chicago market compared to the White Sox, but even with that said, this doesn't seem like equitable reporting at all.

What an opportunity for this club. If they can get a fresh on field staff now and get a couple more starters into the mix, they're going to be right there.

 

[BobbyMac]

24 hrs later, I'm 100% in on Hinch.

F**k the smoke it brings, we invented & perfected cheating. Banging a trash can is child's play.

 

[Rogue219]

Whoever they hire, they need to talk to their young hitters about plate discipline. That's the one element missing from this group that would make them an absolute force. The bats are there otherwise. The discipline to work counts and get into bullpens is not.

 

[Southside Sully]

Whoever they hire, they need to talk to their young hitters about plate discipline. That's the one element missing from this group that would make them an absolute force. The bats are there otherwise. The discipline to work counts and get into bullpens is not.

100% this.. i get it TA is aggressive don't take that away from him, but the other young guys have to stop going down 0-2, regardless if you get a cookie.

 

[Rogue219]

100% this.. i get it TA is aggressive don't take that away from him, but the other young guys have to stop going down 0-2, regardless if you get a cookie.

I think getting Hinch if he is available wouldn't be a bad thing. He has the background of player, front office and manager. His staff would be critical, mostly because they would have to really work with these guys on working smarter at the plate. The talent to hit for average and power are there. They need the OBP component next.

For my money, I'd have two bench coaches and two pitching coaches going forward. It is inevitable anyway that eventually all teams will have two of each. Renteria would make a fine bench coach and I'm sure he'll get something else again. If not, he's been bought out by two teams in the same city. Good work if you can get it.

Houston has a top staff in terms of analytics and they have a very good front office, in spite of all the nonsense that was taking place with the sign stealing. Hinch, if Chicago show interest, is going to have to take a good long look at what the Chicago front office looks like versus where he was with the Astros. This is a franchise that just now let go of their pitching coach who has been involved with the club in some way shape or form since 1988.

They have been making great strides in the last few years to get caught up to speed with their analytical staffing. I am going to assume that what Hinch sees with the White Sox versus what he had with the Astros will not be the same.

And yes, that would include garbage cans.

 

[IrishFanJMercy]

I swear if they higher Tony Larussa I will quit watching them .

 

[Rogue219]

I swear if they higher Tony Larussa I will quit watching them .

I think this is a smoke screen. He clearly doesn't if the criteria their GM laid out in the presser on Monday. He's 76 years old and he's not cut for today's game or the White Sox roster (LaRussa and Tim Anderson won't have much to talk about in the clubhouse).

I think they want AJ Hinch and that's who it is going to be. Cora is going back to the Red Sox most likely.

If the White Sox are truly going in a new direction, Hinch is going to be the guy, and for a variety of reasons. He's new school, not a PR friendly hire at the moment and has zero playing days connection to the club.

 

[Southside Sully]

I think this is a smoke screen. He clearly doesn't if the criteria their GM laid out in the presser on Monday. He's 76 years old and he's not cut for today's game or the White Sox roster (LaRussa and Tim Anderson won't have much to talk about in the clubhouse).

I think they want AJ Hinch and that's who it is going to be. Cora is going back to the Red Sox most likely.

If the White Sox are truly going in a new direction, Hinch is going to be the guy, and for a variety of reasons. He's new school, not a PR friendly hire at the moment and has zero playing days connection to the club.

Also another reason why LaRussa won't be the guy, they want someone who will embrace and use analytics...
https://chicago.suntimes.com/white-sox/2020/10/13/21515008/friction-between-rick-renteria-and-front-office-had-been-growing-sox-hinch-hahn

 

[Rogue219]

Also another reason why LaRussa won't be the guy, they want someone who will embrace and use analytics...
https://chicago.suntimes.com/white-sox/2020/10/13/21515008/friction-between-rick-renteria-and-front-office-had-been-growing-sox-hinch-hahn

Right. Which shouldn't even be a question anymore. Anyone not willing to use or embrace analytics shouldn't even be on the grounds crew. Pointless endeavor.

 

[Southside Sully]

Right. Which shouldn't even be a question anymore. Anyone not willing to use or embrace analytics shouldn't even be on the grounds crew. Pointless endeavor.

This LaRussa thing is going forward, they received permission to interview him from the Angels. This makes no sense.

 

[Rogue219]

This LaRussa thing is going forward, they received permission to interview him from the Angels. This makes no sense.

The whole thing just seems silly. I realize the chairman loves him from when he was manager back in the 80s, but surely they have had a chance to rehire him prior to this.

Actually hiring him would be malfeasance and I'm guessing a segement of the fanbase would revolt over it while another would celelbrate. It seems like this club likes hiring former players to handle important jobs.

Hopefully it is all a smoke screen for the eventual hiring of AJ Hinch.

 

[Rogue219]

1. Sandy Alomar Jr.
2. Joe Espada
3. Bob Gereen
4. Matt Quatraro
5. Ron Washington

This would be my top five regardless of opening, Chicago or otherwise.

The interview process, for me, would be centered on what they intend to do with bringing in bench coaches, hitting coaches and pitching coaches. Manager should be given autonomy to hire his guys, but I'd want to know about who those guys would be.

It sounds like the front office was pushing analytics on Renteria and Cooper, they pushed back, and this had been going on for some time. It led to the eventual parting of ways coupled with how their regular season ended and the Game 3 loss to Oakland.

It also sounds like CHI really wanted to win an AL Central this year, shortened season or not, and wanted to overtake Minnesota for that flag. A lot of things led up to Renteria and Cooper getting let go from the sounds of things.

I hope they don't hire LaRussa or Bochy. I honestly think it is going to be AJ Hinch, but I have no idea how good of a manager he really is considering what we now know. I do think he's smart and buys into MLB 2021 and the direction the team actually wants to go. He is also perceived to be the best guy on the market.

Cora goes back to Boston is my guess.

 

[pumpdog20]

1. Sandy Alomar Jr.
2. Joe Espada
3. Bob Gereen
4. Matt Quatraro
5. Ron Washington

This would be my top five regardless of opening, Chicago or otherwise.

The interview process, for me, would be centered on what they intend to do with bringing in bench coaches, hitting coaches and pitching coaches. Manager should be given autonomy to hire his guys, but I'd want to know about who those guys would be.

It sounds like the front office was pushing analytics on Renteria and Cooper, they pushed back, and this had been going on for some time. It led to the eventual parting of ways coupled with how their regular season ended and the Game 3 loss to Oakland.

It also sounds like CHI really wanted to win an AL Central this year, shortened season or not, and wanted to overtake Minnesota for that flag. A lot of things led up to Renteria and Cooper getting let go from the sounds of things.

I hope they don't hire LaRussa or Bochy. I honestly think it is going to be AJ Hinch, but I have no idea how good of a manager he really is considering what we now know. I do think he's smart and buys into MLB 2021 and the direction the team actually wants to go. He is also perceived to be the best guy on the market.

Cora goes back to Boston is my guess.

You would take Ron Washington over Ozzie to coach this team? Not me

 

[Rogue219]

You would take Ron Washington over Ozzie to coach this team? Not me

Never got back with an ex-gf before. I'd assume run my baseball team the same way.

Can you answer me a question, and I'm genuintely asking: this fan base seems most interested in either individuals who have already managed the team (LaRussa and Guillen) or former players who have never managed at all (Thome, Pierzysnki, Konerko). You have three World Series, 6 AL pennants and 5 division titles since founding in 1900.

Help me understand why you'd want Ozzie Guillen back when he's been out of baseball for eight years and won't embrace analytics. Ron Washington coached with Oakland at the beginning of Beane's Moneyball movement, then he managed the Rangers under Jon Daniels where he won two AL Pennants (The White Sox have won 6 in their entire history). He's now with a successfully rebuilt Braves club and is dying to manage again. He embraces the game both past and present. He's got some personal baggage, and hes' sought help for it, so apart from having never played or coached for the White Sox...why not?

The objective here, as it should be for every team, is to win a champioship. If getting there means hiring any living human being that has already managed your club once before or has once played for the club before (or both like Guillen) then by all means proceed with hiring such said person. Something tells me they should be casting a bit wider of a net, though.

Tony LaRussa and Ozzie Guillen shouldn't even be wasting anyone's time in conversation on a message board let alone getting consideration from the front office decision makers.

 

[Southside Sully]

Never got back with an ex-gf before. I'd assume run my baseball team the same way.

Can you answer me a question, and I'm genuintely asking: this fan base seems most interested in either individuals who have already managed the team (LaRussa and Guillen) or former players who have never managed at all (Thome, Pierzysnki, Konerko). You have three World Series, 6 AL pennants and 5 division titles since founding in 1900.

Help me understand why you'd want Ozzie Guillen back when he's been out of baseball for eight years and won't embrace analytics. Ron Washington coached with Oakland at the beginning of Beane's Moneyball movement, then he managed the Rangers under Jon Daniels where he won two AL Pennants (The White Sox have won 6 in their entire history). He's now with a successfully rebuilt Braves club and is dying to manage again. He embraces the game both past and present. He's got some personal baggage, and hes' sought help for it, so apart from having never played or coached for the White Sox...why not?

The objective here, as it should be for every team, is to win a champioship. If getting there means hiring any living human being that has already managed your club once before or has once played for the club before (or both like Guillen) then by all means proceed with hiring such said person. Something tells me they should be casting a bit wider of a net, though.

Tony LaRussa and Ozzie Guillen shouldn't even be wasting anyone's time in conversation on a message board let alone getting consideration from the front office decision makers.

Sandy Alomar is top of my list, and haven't heard much of him coming in yet. I do not want LaRussa.

 

[pumpdog20]

Never got back with an ex-gf before. I'd assume run my baseball team the same way.

Can you answer me a question, and I'm genuintely asking: this fan base seems most interested in either individuals who have already managed the team (LaRussa and Guillen) or former players who have never managed at all (Thome, Pierzysnki, Konerko). You have three World Series, 6 AL pennants and 5 division titles since founding in 1900.

Help me understand why you'd want Ozzie Guillen back when he's been out of baseball for eight years and won't embrace analytics. Ron Washington coached with Oakland at the beginning of Beane's Moneyball movement, then he managed the Rangers under Jon Daniels where he won two AL Pennants (The White Sox have won 6 in their entire history). He's now with a successfully rebuilt Braves club and is dying to manage again. He embraces the game both past and present. He's got some personal baggage, and hes' sought help for it, so apart from having never played or coached for the White Sox...why not?

The objective here, as it should be for every team, is to win a champioship. If getting there means hiring any living human being that has already managed your club once before or has once played for the club before (or both like Guillen) then by all means proceed with hiring such said person. Something tells me they should be casting a bit wider of a net, though.

Tony LaRussa and Ozzie Guillen shouldn't even be wasting anyone's time in conversation on a message board let alone getting consideration from the front office decision makers.

I'm not sure why you keep bringing up all these other names with me. I've stated Ozzie and only Ozzie from the get go. I've was never a fan of Robin being the manager, and I sure the hell don't want LaRussa. I simply think Ozzie can relate to this mostly Latin team, and they are young enough that they will respect his style. Now two or three years from now, I'm sure they'll get tired of him. But he could get them to win now, in my opinion.

 

[Southside Sully]

I'm not sure why you keep bringing up all these other names with me. I've stated Ozzie and only Ozzie from the get go. I've was never a fan of Robin being the manager, and I sure the hell don't want LaRussa. I simply think Ozzie can relate to this mostly Latin team, and they are young enough that they will respect his style. Now two or three years from now, I'm sure they'll get tired of him. But he could get them to win now, in my opinion.

Sox have already told Ozzie he is not being considered. It sucks but he has been blackballed by baseball

 

[Crazy Balki]

Sox have already told Ozzie he is not being considered. It sucks but he has been blackballed by baseball

I really don't understand the buzz about reuniting with Ozzie.

Yeah, he was great for the first couple of years, but his act got old and the more spotlight he received, it became apparent that he was incapable of shutting the **** up.

On top of that, Ozzie ball was outdated back in 2010. He might as well be managing baseball on Jupiter compared to where he was a decade ago.

The Sox need somebody who is intimately familiar with the modern game, not someone who has been out of it for 8 years.

At this point, I'd be surprised if it isn't Hinch.

 

[Southside Sully]

I really don't understand the buzz about reuniting with Ozzie.

Yeah, he was great for the first couple of years, but his act got old and the more spotlight he received, it became apparent that he was incapable of shutting the **** up.

On top of that, Ozzie ball was outdated back in 2010. He might as well be managing baseball on Jupiter compared to where he was a decade ago.

The Sox need somebody who is intimately familiar with the modern game, not someone who has been out of it for 8 years.

100% need someone analytics driven.. When i said unfortunately - i meant that baseball has blackballed him, not the sox not talking to him.

 

[Crazy Balki]

100% need someone analytics driven.. When i said unfortunately - i meant that baseball has blackballed him, not the sox not talking to him.

Eh, I'd say he isn't really blackballed, but it's like what happened with Colin Kaepernick.

Both claim that the leagues they once worked under "black balled" them, but in reality, their antics and dialogue aren't worth gambling on guys who haven't been successful in years.

Ozzie was once a very good manager, but has since let the game pass him by and there is no reason a team will be willing to take a chance on him, especially given his lightning rod mouth for controversy.

 

[pumpdog20]

What are these examples that Ozzie has let the game pass him by? I totally understand that he'll eventually rub people wrong, but this is a young team who will put up with it for a couple of years, and have the talent to win it all.

I'm not saying the other candidates aren't worthy, or heck maybe better. Just don't understand the downright refusal of Ozzie. He's a proven championship level coach, and can relate to most of this team.

 

[Southside Sully]

Eh, I'd say he isn't really blackballed, but it's like what happened with Colin Kaepernick.

Both claim that the leagues they once worked under "black balled" them, but in reality, their antics and dialogue aren't worth gambling on guys who haven't been successful in years.

Ozzie was once a very good manager, but has since let the game pass him by and there is no reason a team will be willing to take a chance on him, especially given his lightning rod mouth for controversy.

This is 100% fact with Kap.The league settled his case to about $10 mill, because they knew they were going to lose the collusion case. He was blackballed, he didn't have antics, he kneeled during the national anthem, which is his right to do so under the 1st amendment, and consulted a former Navy Seal to be respectful. All reports were that Kap was a great teammate
"Kaepernick’s teammates voted him as the winner of the Len Eshmont Award as the 49ers player who best exemplifies the inspirational and courageous play of Len Eshmont. The award is considered the most prestigious team honor on which players vote."

Ozzie is more just no one throwing him a bone, Kap was cut and held out.

 

[Rogue219]

I'm not sure why you keep bringing up all these other names with me. I've stated Ozzie and only Ozzie from the get go. I've was never a fan of Robin being the manager, and I sure the hell don't want LaRussa. I simply think Ozzie can relate to this mostly Latin team, and they are young enough that they will respect his style. Now two or three years from now, I'm sure they'll get tired of him. But he could get them to win now, in my opinion.

I'm not sure either.

 

[Rogue219]

Sox have already told Ozzie he is not being considered. It sucks but he has been blackballed by baseball

There ended the lesson.

 

[Rogue219]

I really don't understand the buzz about reuniting with Ozzie.

Yeah, he was great for the first couple of years, but his act got old and the more spotlight he received, it became apparent that he was incapable of shutting the **** up.

On top of that, Ozzie ball was outdated back in 2010. He might as well be managing baseball on Jupiter compared to where he was a decade ago.

The Sox need somebody who is intimately familiar with the modern game, not someone who has been out of it for 8 years.

At this point, I'd be surprised if it isn't Hinch.

Every word of this post is excellent.