Charlie

[goldandblue]

Over the past few weeks, I've seen several posters compare Weis and Notre Dame to Saban and Alabama. Yes it is true that Alabama is having a much better season than our Irish. I think the comparison that I typically see is Weis is not a good coach because in less amount of time look at what Saban has done with Bama. Let's think about some things here:

Sabans head coaching experience: 11 years of head coaching experience In the NCAA before Weis even gets his first head coaching job. Currently Saban's experience trumps Weis by 13 years to Weis almost 4 complete years.

Roster of Teams: Lets look at recruiting rankings for the past 4 -5 years.
2004 ND - 32 Bama - 15
2005 ND - 40 Bama - 18
2006 ND - 8 Bama - 11
2007 ND - 8 Bama - 10
2008 ND - 2 Bama - 1

Obviously the 2008 recruting class has been controversial It is now said that ND holds the number 1 class because of some eligibility issues at Bama.

What the recruiting rankings do show is a very large advantage to Alabama in Upperclassmen. These upperclassmen have the experience and the leadership qualities that younger players do not have. In layman terms the cupboard was not and is not bare at Alabama.

Our progress has been slower there is no argument to that but there are factors that play a huge part in that. First our head coach has had to learn how to be a head coach. Which he is still learning today. Hopefully he will learn what he needs to throughout this season to be prepared to take the Irish back to Glory for years to come. Second, due to past recruiting classes, the cupboard was no doubt bare and the players we did/do have as uppperclassmen are not the quality players we need to be top tier in the NCAA.

These are my two cents, I just get tired of hearing look what Saban has done at Bama. Not necessarily from this board alone but other boards as well.

I do agree that after another year or so, Weis will need to be canned if he hasn't taken this program to new levels. Next year will be his 5th year, I think he has earned the right to get the five years promised with no bitching from fans with his two BCS trips and his extremely good recruiting classes.

Sure we all want to Win every game and be national champions, 20 years will take all patience away from us. This team is young, it's growing, it's learning, and it's on the way to a N.C.

 

[SoCalDomer]

Many good points g&b.

The coach at Alabama was most definitely not fired because he couldn't recruit. Nor was he fired for having losing seasons. He was fired because he didn't take them to the title game and he lost too many times in a row to Auburn.

 

[georgetwn]

I did not have this post pop up when I did a search. Your argument doesn"t hold water. Alabama has the fewest number of seniors in 1A

 

[NDOM]

Many good points g&b.

The coach at Alabama was most definitely not fired because he couldn't recruit. Nor was he fired for having losing seasons. He was fired because he didn't take them to the title game and he lost too many times in a row to Auburn.[/QUOTE]

Sounds like Charlie Weis doesnt it? Cant get to the title game, Losing too many times in a row to Boston College, Usc etc etc.

 

[phork]

Sabans head coaching experience: 11 years of head coaching experience In the NCAA before Weis even gets his first head coaching job. Currently Saban's experience trumps Weis by 13 years to Weis almost 4 complete years.

So based on that alone I think we can guess where this is going. Charlie is not the holy grail of which we seek. And that is the only valid excuse in your list of arguements. Frankly this is not a time for learning on the job.

 

[Golden_Domer88]

Yes Weis can recruit, we all know that. BUT he cannot develope them into college players. Weis doesnt get that whole strength and condition thing in college football. I mean when the navys offensive and defensive lineman push back 4-5 stars players, theres a problem. We need a coach after this season that is a proven winner and knows how to develope high school players into college players.

Just look at Florida last year. They were very young, just like us. But now look at them, they are the BEST team in the nation. Those "youngsters" from last year are now looking like upperclassman. It all comes down to coaching. Which we do not have right now. So take off the blinders and see that Weis needs to go after this season so we can get at least someone who knows how to be a head coach at ND.

 

[GO IRISH!!!]

Yes Weis can recruit, we all know that. BUT he cannot develope them into college players. Weis doesnt get that whole strength and condition thing in college football. I mean when the navys offensive and defensive lineman push back 4-5 stars players, theres a problem. We need a coach after this season that is a proven winner and knows how to develope high school players into college players.

Just look at Florida last year. They were very young, just like us. But now look at them, they are the BEST team in the nation. Those "youngsters" from last year are now looking like upperclassman. It all comes down to coaching. Which we do not have right now. So take off the blinders and see that Weis needs to go after this season so we can get at least someone who knows how to be a head coach at ND.

I don't disagree with the point of your post, but I don't think you can use the example of the physicality of the Navy players as a negative. Totally agree with you if you refer to SDSU or a school like that, but you cannot use the strength and conditioning program of a service academy as a knock against our guys. Army, Navy, and Air Force are all, historically, some of the most physically fit (even if at times undersized) players in the country. Do I think it is good that we get pushed back when the offensive line outweighs them by an average of 36 pounds per man? No. But it doesn't bother me as much as some of the other teams that have manhandled us.

Most Division 1 teams train for the season and upcoming games. The service academies train for their LIVES! Can't really compare the two - I don't care who your S&C coach is.

"IRISHMARINE for the new ND S&C coach!!!!!!"

By the way, big thanks to all our service men and women. Big reps to all of you!!!

Can't be said enough! In this or any other post.

 

[Golden_Domer88]

Yes your correct that all the service academies are those most fit players in the nation. They have to be that way. I do respect all the military men and women for what they do and our country wouldnt be the same without them. But its still football and we shouldnt be pushed back like that.

 

[phork]

Thats the lamest excuse I have ever heard. Its not like ND takes a bunch of slobs off the campus, suits them up and tells them to have at it. Sorry, that doesn't fly with me.

 

[GO IRISH!!!]

Yes your correct that all the service academies are those most fit players in the nation. They have to be that way. I do respect all the military men and women for what they do and our country wouldnt be the same without them. But its still football and we shouldnt be pushed back like that.

I said I agreed with your post. I just meant that Navy is full (top to bottom) of some of the toughest SOB's around. When I was in college, I played hoops and we played Air Force every year. Never as tall as us or as physically gifted (more than me, of course, because I rode the pine most of the time) as most of our players, but they were TOUGH and strong. I got in the game one time and went to hand check one of their forwards and I felt like I put my hand on solid granite. The training standards at the service academies are different. They don't have the 20 hour a week restriction, or whatever it is. They train morning, noon, and night 7 days a week. Bad ass mo-fo's.

Again, totally agree with you. Just not as much when I see Navy do it.

 

[GO IRISH!!!]

Army, Navy, and Air Force are all, historically, some of the most physically fit (even if at times undersized) players in the country. Do I think it is good that we get pushed back when the offensive line outweighs them by an average of 36 pounds per man? No. But it doesn't bother me as much as some of the other teams that have manhandled us.

Most Division 1 teams train for the season and upcoming games. The service academies train for their LIVES! Can't really compare the two - I don't care who your S&C coach is.

Thats the lamest excuse I have ever heard. Its not like ND takes a bunch of slobs off the campus, suits them up and tells them to have at it. Sorry, that doesn't fly with me.

Never said ND suits up slobs off the campus, but I just meant you can't compare the two. I've played against a service academy in college and they are just flat out tough and strong! The training is different and they do it every single day. You say it's a lame excuse? Why? Why doesn't that point "fly" with you?

 

[leahy's lads]

Weiss is 1-15 versus ranked opponents


the guy hasn't done anything earth shattering in the 4 seasons he has been here

if they lose to syracuse or go to a bowl...... any bowl and get shut out....... i say it is time to part company with CW


the guy needs to do something huge here to save his keister

he won't beat sc....... so he needs to beat syracuse and win a friggin bowl....... anything short of that will be viewed as shitting the bed.

 

[SoCalDomer]

no wonder you're in the red.

for the 5th or 6th time, it's "Weis" with one "s".

 

[phork]

Get over it. He will not be fired this year and probably not next year either.

 

[goldandblue]

I did not have this post pop up when I did a search. Your argument doesn"t hold water. Alabama has the fewest number of seniors in 1A

where in my post am I talking about # of upperclassmen?? Read my first post again. I'm talking about Alabama having an advantage in QUALITY of upperclassmen. Not quantity.

 

[SoCalDomer]

I did not have this post pop up when I did a search. Your argument doesn"t hold water. Alabama has the fewest number of seniors in 1A

I don't know what his argument was, but your claimed facts are wrong, unless you're using new math.

In 2005, Alabama received 32 letters of intent (obviously not all were admitted or could receive a scholarship.) Currently 18 of them are on the team. Those in bold are not currently on the roster.

Jimmy Barnes QB
Sam Burnthall DB
Evan Cardwell OL
Glen Coffee RB
Marlon Davis OL
Brandon Deaderick DE
Scott Deaton OL
Brandon Fanney
Antonio Forbes
Mike Ford RB
Bobby Greenwood DE
Prince Hall LB
Cole Harvey OL
Charles Hoke TE
Baron Huber LB
Desmond Jennings ATH
Jimmy Johns QB
Michael Johnson OL
Chris Keys DB
Nick Kyles WR
Travis McCall DE
Lionel Mitchell DB
Cory Reamer LB
Michael Ricks DB
Chris Rogers DB
Zach Schreiber DE
Ali Sharrief ATH
Travis Sikes DB
Roy Upchurch RB
Byron Walton OL
Lorenzo Washington DT
John Parker Wilson

Total 32 – 14 = 18 scholarship players on the roster from the 2005 class. ND has 12 scholarship seniors from the 2005 class.

 

[scoutgod]

Fire CW before JC graduates and ND will never get another big time national recruit for a decade.

The perception of ND is that it cannot handle big time talent or hype. Pulling the pin on CW will put that feeling in stone. Many more years of CW. Many more years of hoping for a Gator Bowl birth.

 

[NDsuperfan09]

Charlie tries way too hard to outsmart people, and he is way too stubborn. I'm not making excuses for JC or our offenses lack of production the past two games but hear me out. When we had that stretch from the 2nd half of the Michigan State game through the first half of the Pitt game where our offense had a great stretch of very good performances we were running a spread with 3-5 Wide at any given time. After the intermission against Pitt we have gone back to running this pro-style offense. That is fine and dandy but we don't have the OL or RBs to be successful running a pro-style set at this time. Why fix something if it isn't broken? I mean thats just Charlie/Haywood being too stubborn. This offense is at it's best running a spread with 4 wide and dinking and dunking with the occasional deep ball. Disagree with me all you want but I think if we want to be any good the next couple of years we need to become a spread team with the Texas Tech style of approach.

 

[TheMightyQuinn10]

Charlie tries way too hard to outsmart people, and he is way too stubborn. I'm not making excuses for JC or our offenses lack of production the past two games but hear me out. When we had that stretch from the 2nd half of the Michigan State game through the first half of the Pitt game where our offense had a great stretch of very good performances we were running a spread with 3-5 Wide at any given time. After the intermission against Pitt we have gone back to running this pro-style offense. That is fine and dandy but we don't have the OL or RBs to be successful running a pro-style set at this time. Why fix something if it isn't broken? I mean thats just Charlie/Haywood being too stubborn. This offense is at it's best running a spread with 4 wide and dinking and dunking with the occasional deep ball. Disagree with me all you want but I think if we want to be any good the next couple of years we need to become a spread team with the Texas Tech style of approach.

iawtp

 

[Dacian_Irish]

Weiss is 1-15 versus ranked opponents


the guy hasn't done anything earth shattering in the 4 seasons he has been here

if they lose to syracuse or go to a bowl...... any bowl and get shut out....... i say it is time to part company with CW


the guy needs to do something huge here to save his keister

he won't beat sc....... so he needs to beat syracuse and win a friggin bowl....... anything short of that will be viewed as shitting the bed.

Bro if your gonna bash WEIS at least spell his name correctly!

 

[Dizzyphil]

disagree - big time

disagree - big time

Goldandblue,

Of all the top recruits that have gone to other colleges or ND for that matter... which one would you trade for Anello????? A walk-on that plays not by the size of his frame, but the size of his heart. I would take three Anello type players before I took 10 of Scouts top 100. Don't get me wrong that you want to fill your team with the smartest and best players you can find, just find someone with the heart of Anello.

This is where I feel CW has failed, he lied about the 'Nasty' he was going to put in our players. That is where I feel cheated as a fan. NO disrespect to your research, but it looks like the diamonds are hidden by the rough sometimes.

Diz

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

I did not have this post pop up when I did a search. Your argument doesn"t hold water. Alabama has the fewest number of seniors in 1A

We have 3 scohlarship 5th years, how many do they have?

strip away the walk-ons, adjust for TRUE YEAR and we have the 3rd youngest Two-Deep in DivI-A

They seem to have more than a few older guys:
College Player Database - Depth Chart

On our team, Bemenderfer is so damn big, he is the backup in multiple spots.

 

[fortwayne_nd]

Charlie tries way too hard to outsmart people, and he is way too stubborn. I'm not making excuses for JC or our offenses lack of production the past two games but hear me out. When we had that stretch from the 2nd half of the Michigan State game through the first half of the Pitt game where our offense had a great stretch of very good performances we were running a spread with 3-5 Wide at any given time. After the intermission against Pitt we have gone back to running this pro-style offense. That is fine and dandy but we don't have the OL or RBs to be successful running a pro-style set at this time. Why fix something if it isn't broken? I mean thats just Charlie/Haywood being too stubborn. This offense is at it's best running a spread with 4 wide and dinking and dunking with the occasional deep ball. Disagree with me all you want but I think if we want to be any good the next couple of years we need to become a spread team with the Texas Tech style of approach.

"Dink and Dunk" You know that's what Tom Brady would do. Take what the defense gives you. Did Charlie forget that approach?

Outsmarting people - like JC split out wide with Tate taking the direct snap against Navy. Why on earth would ND rely on gimmicks against a team they should be able to line up across from and push the ball down their throats?

I still think its a coaching issue.

 

[phork]

Outsmarting people - like JC split out wide with Tate taking the direct snap against Navy. Why on earth would ND rely on gimmicks against a team they should be able to line up across from and push the ball down their throats?

I still think its a coaching issue.

Thats exactly it. Dropping CNotes on teams like this should be a regular thing.

 

[NDsuperfan09]

I still think its a coaching issue.

Thats what I was getting at. Your reading comprehension FTL.

 

[wahoo]

One thing to remember though is that besides the NFL experience Saban has been a Head college coach and CW was never a head coach until he took over at ND. That head coaching experience can make a big difference.

 

[phork]

Makes all the difference in the world.

 

[goldandblue]

Goldandblue,

Of all the top recruits that have gone to other colleges or ND for that matter... which one would you trade for Anello????? A walk-on that plays not by the size of his frame, but the size of his heart. I would take three Anello type players before I took 10 of Scouts top 100. Don't get me wrong that you want to fill your team with the smartest and best players you can find, just find someone with the heart of Anello.\
Diz

I do wish that every player we had played with the heart that Anello does. But I don't exactly see your point. I don't see what your saying has anything to do with any of my posts in this thread.