Bring Charlie Back!!!

[mick2]

So, Mick why should CW stay? And the argument the program is heading in the right direction has no legs because we keep losing. Graduations rate under Davie and Ty were also very, very good.

So convince us?

Convince you?! I'd have a better chance trying to sell ice to eskimos.

All im saying is if we are going to Fire him and bring in a new guy whats to say that this new guy can be so successful?

the 8 years of davieham were disastrous to our program, pretty much self imposed death penaltys.

This year was very disappointing to me, as i thought we could contend for a bcs, i cant make excuses but we have been pretty damn unlucky with injuries and bad calls.

i just said in my other post that neither side was wrong. but you can make an argument for both sides.

this program needs stability, and continuity, the slash and burn technique we've used with our last 2 coaches is putting us further in a hole every time we do it.

I will fully support whatever decision Swarbrick makes, if charlie goes it will be very hard for me but i will support the next coach.

And Support i think is the one thing the fans and alumni dont give enough of. if you went to work everyday with the everybody saying you were a goner if you screw up once wouldnt that affect your performance?

The coaches and players are stuck with that stigma everyday and its sad because they deserve better from the fans and alumni.

 

[IrishinSyria]

So, Mick why should CW stay? And the argument the program is heading in the right direction has no legs because we keep losing. Graduations rate under Davie and Ty were also very, very good.

So convince us?

I can't speak for Mick, but for me its a feeling that we are on the cusp of greatness and a strong scepticism that any coach out there (possible exception: Urban Meyer) is worth starting over again for.

In particular, it seems that the things that have cost this team games this year are relatively small and very fixable. This team needs to improve its defensive fundamentals, its red zone offense, and its special teams play. If it does those things, there's no reason it shouldn't be a BCS player next year. On the other hand, if you tear up the entire game plan and likely lose some of your best assets, there's no telling what ND will look like. This is the final climb. It is the toughest, and I realize that there are plenty of stats out there that argue for Charlie to go. But football isn't a numbers game, and I for one believe that Charlie and ND can achieve their lofty expectations.

 

[NDinL.A.]

He's gone guys, get used to it.

He said it himself, this was a show me year, and he showed us a 6-5 record with a tough Stanford team next. He said it himself, he'd have a hard time arguing with anyone who said he should be let go.

He's a great man who I do believe left the program better off than when he left it. I really do wish he could'vehave been the man to turn it around, as I am still a big fan. But he deserves to be fired for not getting results. We would be sending a message to all ND fans and college football that we accept mediocrity if we kept Weis.

And Weis knows this...

 

[Dizzyphil]

There are so many outside influences that have a party to this. The networks, the posting boards, web-sites, and of course the regular Irish Haters. I have read many different posts from many different sites including the big boys, cbssports, espn, etc... fans of our rivals and other teams are even calling for CWs release. Being that college football is no longer a sport, it is a business-- why? no playoffs, lets bowl for money,... they are all talking about his contract, screw them, ND brass called him in for the contract, I wouldn't think CW went in and said I have to have a longer contract and more money. (I could be wrong).

Bottom line, if ND treats this as a business decision, I would think CW is gone.

If they think this as a college football program, he will get another year.

Charlie is a good man. (You can't deny him this)

If everyone here has watched the games, alot of our woes have been self inflicted. Penalties, slips, dropped balls, fumbles, and the bad part about these mistakes is they came at very bad times of the game. Then there have been a some questionable calls by CW, granted. (some of the refs didn't help either)

All this is opinion. I want ND to win as much as the next guy. The Head Coach is responsible, no doubt. He recognizes this as much as the next guy.

Now, do I want him to stay, yes, many different reasons... Do I want him to go....very tough for me to say as an outsider, don't know all the variables that goes on inside the locker room and Swarbick's mind of what he thinks is out there that is better than CW and who would actually take on all the tasks that involve a ND Head Coach.

Diz

 

[DKSchrute]

He's gone guys, get used to it.

He said it himself, this was a show me year, and he showed us a 6-5 record with a tough Stanford team next. He said it himself, he'd have a hard time arguing with anyone who said he should be let go.

He's a great man who I do believe left the program better off than when he left it. I really do wish he could'vehave been the man to turn it around, as I am still a big fan. But he deserves to be fired for not getting results. We would be sending a message to all ND fans and college football that we accept mediocrity if we kept Weis.

And Weis knows this...

Its in his voice. hes resigned to it. Did you all hear that "6-5 isnt good enough" presser compared to his recent ones?

It is really telling how he came in with guns blazing to the point now of being resigned to his fate.

I really think he feels hes excersized all of his options and he sees that they are what they are - an average team with above average talent.

 

[Dizzyphil]

Its in his voice. hes resigned to it. Did you all hear that "6-5 isnt good enough" presser compared to his recent ones?

It is really telling how he came in with guns blazing to the point now of being resigned to his fate.

I really think he feels hes excersized all of his options and he sees that they are what they are - an average team with above average talent.

In all fairness to CW, he's being pressured by the press with the questions. He has given honest answers. His ego is taking a beating right now, I would do the same as well as many here. One thing we can never deny him, he has always been up front and honest with his answer. Some may not like the answers, but he has been honest about them.

Diz

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

He's gone guys, get used to it....

Bastage. Just when I was starting to get a boner that I don't have.

 

[The Polish Irishman]

I can't speak for Mick, but for me its a feeling that we are on the cusp of greatness and a strong scepticism that any coach out there (possible exception: Urban Meyer) is worth starting over again for.

In particular, it seems that the things that have cost this team games this year are relatively small and very fixable. This team needs to improve its defensive fundamentals, its red zone offense, and its special teams play. If it does those things, there's no reason it shouldn't be a BCS player next year. On the other hand, if you tear up the entire game plan and likely lose some of your best assets, there's no telling what ND will look like. This is the final climb. It is the toughest, and I realize that there are plenty of stats out there that argue for Charlie to go. But football isn't a numbers game, and I for one believe that Charlie and ND can achieve their lofty expectations.

I understand where you are coming from, but I can not take another year. The team makes too many dumb mistakes from all positions. They do not look well coached. If I have learned one thing this year and that is, you have to run the ball in able to contend for the BCS.

 

[IrishinSyria]

Its in his voice. hes resigned to it. Did you all hear that "6-5 isnt good enough" presser compared to his recent ones?

It is really telling how he came in with guns blazing to the point now of being resigned to his fate.

I really think he feels hes excersized all of his options and he sees that they are what they are - an average team with above average talent.

The Deflation of the Ego is another reason I feel strongly about keeping CW, despite all arguments to the contrary. Charlie loves his job and deeply cares about the University. Nobody denies that. Imagine then, what another season would mean to him. It would be an unexpected chance at redemption. A chance to earn his spot amongst the legends he grew up worshiping. I think (but don't know) that Charlie would give up his buyout for that chance. ND is a Catholic school, and while it should never settle for mediocrity, it should also know the power of forgiveness and second chances.

 

[IrishinSyria]

I understand where you are coming from, but I can not take another year. The team makes too many dumb mistakes from all positions. They do not look well coached. If I have learned one thing this year and that is, you have to run the ball in able to contend for the BCS.

And I understand where you're coming from, but I'd rather risk another disapointing season then risk hiring another coach with unrealistic expectations and watching the program stutter for another five years before coming back to this same discussion.

I also understand that I'm almost 100% likely to be disapointed here. But I don't think I'll ever get over the feeling that we quit on the final push.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

... But I don't think I'll ever get over the feeling that we quit on the final push.

Nice. Don't quit on the final push. Just one more step.

 

[edcubby]

I really don't get ALL of the Fire Charlie stuff...seriously.

He is finally stock piling HIS recruits!!! Realistically, this is his 3rd recruiting class playing now and his 4th will be top 10 again.

While he is responsible for the whole team his OFFENSE has been very good...I know, horrible in the red zone but still raching up yardage and points...

His problem has been DEFENSE!!! The defense is God awful...Brown/Tenuta combo stink. I am hoping Charlie stays and gets rid of these two.

KEEP CHARLIE!!!

 

[IrishInFl]

Convince you?! I'd have a better chance trying to sell ice to eskimos.

All im saying is if we are going to Fire him and bring in a new guy whats to say that this new guy can be so successful?

the 8 years of davieham were disastrous to our program, pretty much self imposed death penaltys.

This year was very disappointing to me, as i thought we could contend for a bcs, i cant make excuses but we have been pretty damn unlucky with injuries and bad calls.

i just said in my other post that neither side was wrong. but you can make an argument for both sides.

this program needs stability, and continuity, the slash and burn technique we've used with our last 2 coaches is putting us further in a hole every time we do it.

I will fully support whatever decision Swarbrick makes, if charlie goes it will be very hard for me but i will support the next coach.

And Support i think is the one thing the fans and alumni dont give enough of. if you went to work everyday with the everybody saying you were a goner if you screw up once wouldnt that affect your performance?

The coaches and players are stuck with that stigma everyday and its sad because they deserve better from the fans and alumni.

That's it! I'm sold! Go Weis!

 

[WaveDomer]

Where I'm coming from.
-the guy can't coach. Sorry, he can't. You lose to Navy and the next game you come out flat. Guys can't block or tackle. Between the 20's you rock, but in the redzone you have trouble gaining 2 yards versus an undersized line. KISS. Keep It Simple Stupid. I'm glad you can scheme crazy wildcat garbage, but how about scheming a consistent running game?

-Recruits. His recruiting has been good, but way focused on star positions. Also, this is college. Guys are going every year due to graduation. And you know what? There are teams like Boise State with much lower recruiting classes who would roll ND. At some point recruits are going to realize they don't develop under Weis, unless they are at QB.

-The right direction. Seems like people think ND is heading in the right direction based on recruits and based on close losses. Well, this team still makes the same mistakes they have been making for years now. How is that progress? The O Line is better than it was, granted, but they are still giving up crucial sacks to undersized teams.

The final push is not losing close to teams like CT and Navy. The final push is playing consistent football and winning the games you are supposed to win and getting close in the tough ones while winning one or two of them. ND just lost to the team that got their fourth string QB from 3 years ago.

 

[thetuna]

After reading the posts in this thread I now finally understand the dynamic of why battered women continue to stay with their abusive husbands.

You HAVE got to be kidding me.

Someone above just said this was only his 3rd year with his recruits? WHAT? This is his 5th year. I don't want to hear about excuses involving when he got hired. He has had 5 years and finished the last 3 with a 16-20 record and 1-6 against Navy & the Big Least. He has exactly won NO BIG GAMES. NONE. Not a single one.

I mean, WTF is going on in this thread?

 

[WaveDomer]

I really don't get ALL of the Fire Charlie stuff...seriously.

He is finally stock piling HIS recruits!!! Realistically, this is his 3rd recruiting class playing now and his 4th will be top 10 again.

While he is responsible for the whole team his OFFENSE has been very good...I know, horrible in the red zone but still raching up yardage and points...

His problem has been DEFENSE!!! The defense is God awful...Brown/Tenuta combo stink. I am hoping Charlie stays and gets rid of these two.

KEEP CHARLIE!!!

The HC is the adminstrator of the team. This includes hiring the right people. 5 years in and he can't hire the right DC. The administrator sets the tone for everything. Same for a company CEO etc. That's why he gets the big bucks. If you are going to completely delegate responsibilities, you better make sure to hire the right guys. If there is something wrong in a sub department, the administrator fixes it or makes sure that it gets fixed.

 

[enrico514]

Bottom line, if ND treats this as a business decision, I would think CW is gone.
Diz

For what it's worth, I think that if ND treats this like a business decision, CW is back for one more year. If his buyout is anywhere near what has been made public it is simply to much for any institution not to consider. No matter the size of your endowment!!! Therefore, getting rid of CW cost too much $$$$$ while keeping him one more year has no negative impact on the the revenues generated by the program. If he does indeed suck, buyout is a little less (and should be restructured this year if JS is smart and CW confident in his abilities) and it cost us fans one more year. Personally, I think that one extra year is worth it when you consider how long it's been since we have been relevant. I'd rather be sure that he sucks before rolling the dice on yet another coach. Most of the coaches we are mentioning, if they are interested today will be interested next year for a job at ND. If he ends up being good and/or lucky we could possibly have a great year. Then again, prior to the last couple of games I also thought that Golden and JC (after DC's injury) were going to stay an extra year... so what do I really know!!!

 

[The Polish Irishman]

Recruiting is the reason to keep CW. Please go look at the 2006 class. It is how you develop the players.

 

[enrico514]

The HC is the adminstrator of the team. This includes hiring the right people. 5 years in and he can't hire the right DC. The administrator sets the tone for everything. Same for a company CEO etc. That's why he gets the big bucks. If you are going to completely delegate responsibilities, you better make sure to hire the right guys. If there is something wrong in a sub department, the administrator fixes it or makes sure that it gets fixed.

Very few people disagreed with the personnel changes he made last year. Latina didn't forget how to coach once he arrived in South Bend. Our defensive problems are mostly due to personnel that doesn't quite fit the scheme yet and a lack of success at first recruiting great defensive players. This defense has the potential to be significantly better next year!!!

 

[WaveDomer]

Very few people disagreed with the personnel changes he made last year. Latina didn't forget how to coach once he arrived in South Bend. Our defensive problems are mostly due to personnel that doesn't quite fit the scheme yet and a lack of success at first recruiting great defensive players. This defense has the potential to be significantly better next year!!!

Everything has the potential to be better in the future. Everything. But it also has the potential to be worse or the same. I was a Weis supporter until the Navy game this year. This is not about personnel getting to know schemes. This is about a team that doesn't know fundamentals. ND can't get short yards on crucial situations. That is consistent. The defense can't tackle or stop the run. That is consistent. Things like that, that I see when they play, clue me in to the fact that this coaching staff isn't doing their job. There is no reason for this team to struggle with these basics. No reason. Except bad coaching. If Weis is kept, I hope he does well. But I know in my bones that we will be having this same conversation and talking about bad tackling etc.

 

[enrico514]

Everything has the potential to be better in the future. Everything. But it also has the potential to be worse or the same. I was a Weis supporter until the Navy game this year. This is not about personnel getting to know schemes. This is about a team that doesn't know fundamentals. ND can't get short yards on crucial situations. That is consistent. The defense can't tackle or stop the run. That is consistent. Things like that, that I see when they play, clue me in to the fact that this coaching staff isn't doing their job. There is no reason for this team to struggle with these basics. No reason. Except bad coaching. If Weis is kept, I hope he does well. But I know in my bones that we will be having this same conversation and talking about bad tackling etc.

Let me ask you how you felt about the changes in the coaching staff over the last 2 years when they were announced...

 

[WaveDomer]

Let me ask you how you felt about the changes in the coaching staff over the last 2 years when they were announced...

Good, for the most part. Although, I don't understand how my feelings on a coaching hire when it happened are relevant. I understand that everyone thought Tenuta was a great hire. But I'm also not in the interview process. He could seem like a good hire and be a poor one that a good interview process would have discovered.

My point is, we are ending the season and the squad still struggles with the same problems. The HC should realize that despite schemes, if something isn't working, stop trying to fit that square peg in the round hole and get it working. That D should spend whole practices on how to tackle. If the "great hire" is having problems, it is the HC's job to help sort it out.

 

[dskoo65]

The HC should realize that despite schemes, if something isn't working, stop trying to fit that square peg in the round hole and get it working. That D should spend whole practices on how to tackle. If the "great hire" is having problems, it is the HC's job to help sort it out.

exactly, when are people going to get it through their thick skulls that in college football, the head coach has ultimate control over all facets of the team and his failure to either see problems or implement change in regard to those problems (see: ND's defense) he is seeing is his failure.

 

[Irishlew]

Do not refer to Charlie as the fat man, you'll get an infraction. Just FYI.

 

[no.1IrishFan]

i dont have rose colored glasses on, i realize this was a terrible year for our expectations. But i believe Charlie has this program headed in the right direction.
You have your opinion and i have mine.

neither set of fans are wrong, we are too quick to say youre wrong, Charlie needs to go. In your eyes maybe he does, does that make it right?

This thread was called Bring Charlie Back, not fire charlie so why dont all of the people that want him gone go to the other millions of threads and spread your infinite wisdom there.

Its not as black and white as you all make it out to be. i pray to God that Swarbrick is not like some of the fans on this board.

You do realize we are on the verge of 4 straight losses to end the year, what about that is headed in the right direction?

 

[Dizzyphil]

For what it's worth, I think that if ND treats this like a business decision, CW is back for one more year. If his buyout is anywhere near what has been made public it is simply to much for any institution not to consider. No matter the size of your endowment!!! Therefore, getting rid of CW cost too much $$$$$ while keeping him one more year has no negative impact on the the revenues generated by the program. If he does indeed suck, buyout is a little less (and should be restructured this year if JS is smart and CW confident in his abilities) and it cost us fans one more year. Personally, I think that one extra year is worth it when you consider how long it's been since we have been relevant. I'd rather be sure that he sucks before rolling the dice on yet another coach. Most of the coaches we are mentioning, if they are interested today will be interested next year for a job at ND. If he ends up being good and/or lucky we could possibly have a great year. Then again, prior to the last couple of games I also thought that Golden and JC (after DC's injury) were going to stay an extra year... so what do I really know!!!

I really don't believe that money is the object regarding the payout clause. What's reported and what's real are two different things.

And your post is fairly on target. I think keeping CW the extra year for different reasons. But to each his own. We started this love affair with CW when he came in and announced what he was going to do and what ND was going to be. So far, it has been the opposite - almost.

Diz

 

[Mjrosko]

If you think Weis should stay post in here

If you think Weis should stay post in here

For profiling reasons.

 

[WeisWeisBaby]

Weis should definitely stay

 

[DKSchrute]

Weis should definitely stay

I think he should really have an evaluation and not just a token sit down and get canned, but why are you so definite that he should stay on every post? Is it just a schtick or are you serious?

 

[IHateMarkMay]

I think if we cannot get Stoops... maybe Meyer as much as I don't like him... then we should keep him. A lot of people say don't change just to change. I agree with that. We need a good hire. I think I would take a look at Charlie Strong too, just to get a bit more defensive...