Bring Charlie Back!!!

mick2

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Ok, I'm Making the thread, i dont give a rats ass what others think.

Charlie has worked his tail off for this university. Got us to 2 BCS bowls. 3 heisman hopefuls. tons of other awards, broke the bc streak, broke the bowl losing streak. he even broke his damn knees and stood the rest of the game on crutches!!

The players love him, the admin loves him, former greats love him(tim brown, Tony Rice, Lou holtz etc.)

I am just as disappointed as you guys are with this years record, but let Charlie, Jimmy, and Tate have there swan song in 2010!!!!!

GO IRISH!!!

and remember it could be worse.....we could be michigan fans!!!
 

Irish4Life09

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Ok, I'm Making the thread, i dont give a rats ass what others think.

Charlie has worked his tail off for this university. Got us to 2 BCS bowls. 3 heisman hopefuls. tons of other awards, broke the bc streak, broke the bowl losing streak. he even broke his damn knees and stood the rest of the game on crutches!!

The players love him, the admin loves him, former greats love him(tim brown, Tony Rice, Lou holtz etc.)

I am just as disappointed as you guys are with this years record, but let Charlie, Jimmy, and Tate have there swan song in 2010!!!!!

GO IRISH!!!

and remember it could be worse.....we could be michigan fans!!!


well, apparently 6-5 football isnt even good enough for weis, but it's good enough for u?
is 3-9 ok too? or 7-6?
call me crazy...but i thought this was Notre Dame, and i might be spitballing, but 16-20 over the last 3 seasons just doesnt cut it.
 

NDMontana

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Ok, I'm Making the thread, i dont give a rats ass what others think.

Charlie has worked his tail off for this university. Got us to 2 BCS bowls. 3 heisman hopefuls. tons of other awards, broke the bc streak, broke the bowl losing streak. he even broke his damn knees and stood the rest of the game on crutches!!

The players love him, the admin loves him, former greats love him(tim brown, Tony Rice, Lou holtz etc.)

I am just as disappointed as you guys are with this years record, but let Charlie, Jimmy, and Tate have there swan song in 2010!!!!!

GO IRISH!!!

and remember it could be worse.....we could be michigan fans!!!

In all honesty, go ahead rip me a new asshole, I'd prefer to see one more year as well. But I've got a bad case of cognitive dissonance; I know the results aren't acceptable, I know there is no reason that this team shouldn't have won nine games before their bowl game and ended up with at least 10 wins. I guess I tried, prior to last week, to rationalize why I felt CW should stay from a many angles: he's got the recruiting back to standard, he's an alum that cares about the University, he's worked his ass off....etc. al.

But, at the end of the day, there's no just rationalization for keeping him. He's recruited four and five star players all over the place. 2007? Fine, I can live with it, the cupboard was bare. 2008? A step in the right direction. 2009? 6-5 with a junior and senior laden team. Now we're heading into a road game against a Heisman caliber running back with a defense that has been torched by Navy, Pitt and UConn's respective running games in the last three weeks. It all adds up to a one bleak looking Saturday evening.

CW said 6-5 isn't good enough, I'm not going to throw that back in his face because I don't have to--it's a fact, I know it, you know it, CW knows it and even the people in the media whose heads are so far up their asses that their proctologists can't find them know it. At some point close losses just don't count anymore. CW isn't being fired for losing to Navy in 2007 or even this year. He's being fired because he has the most losses in a three year span in school history, he's the first coach to suffer a three game losing streak in three consecutive seasons.

I'm sorry, I like CW. Every single component was in place for this team to excelerate and they just looked flat all season. A good 15 minute stretch every game was this team's calling card and other teams figured out that, if you could weather that storm, you had ND by the nuts. Plus, going back to Michigan in 2006, everbody said the offense was predictable and different formations didn't mean anything; it was all window dressing. Now the defense is on the receiving end of the same comments and Coach Edesall reitterated that the offense is predictable, three seasons after UM players said the same thing.

A win is a win, I always say that so by the same token a loss is a loss. You can say the team lost five games last year by a combined 77 points and have lost five games this year by a combined 21 points but that doesn't change the bottom line.
 
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Irish4Life09

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i completely agree with u montana.
the one and only thing im worried about is who we hire.
and this is one thing no one can reall argue with, but who would really want to come coach for us right now?
our program has been spiraling out of control for roughly 13-15 years.our fanbase(although great), is full of crazy nonsense who want a brand new coach to win 11 games out of the gate.our defense is in shambles,and will probably take a good coach 3 years to fix.
yes,we have a great tradition...20 years ago and beyond.since then we havent done shit.
it's hard for a rational coach,let alone one with a great track record to take a chance to try and build our program back up.

id love to see a great coach like stoops or meyer come in here,but we most likely wont.
what i believe will happen is we'll get someone like brian kelly.not a bad hire at all, but he will never live up to the gawdy expectations that our community and fanbase has come to expect.
he'll probably average 8-4 seasons over a period of 4-5 years and then we'll go through the same process again.this is then the time to get a big name coach to bring us back to prominence,most likely meyer in about 5 years.

like i said,i love ND.they take up much of my life, but the job position isnt attractive like it once was.and until we can do something to disprove that,then we're going to be stuck in mediocrity.
 

NDMontana

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i completely agree with u montana.
the one and only thing im worried about is who we hire.
and this is one thing no one can reall argue with, but who would really want to come coach for us right now?
our program has been spiraling out of control for roughly 13-15 years.our fanbase(although great), is full of crazy nonsense who want a brand new coach to win 11 games out of the gate.our defense is in shambles,and will probably take a good coach 3 years to fix.
yes,we have a great tradition...20 years ago and beyond.since then we havent done shit.
it's hard for a rational coach,let alone one with a great track record to take a chance to try and build our program back up.

id love to see a great coach like stoops or meyer come in here,but we most likely wont.
what i believe will happen is we'll get someone like brian kelly.not a bad hire at all, but he will never live up to the gawdy expectations that our community and fanbase has come to expect.
he'll probably average 8-4 seasons over a period of 4-5 years and then we'll go through the same process again.this is then the time to get a big name coach to bring us back to prominence,most likely meyer in about 5 years.

like i said,i love ND.they take up much of my life, but the job position isnt attractive like it once was.and until we can do something to disprove that,then we're going to be stuck in mediocrity.

In my opinion, this job is much more attractive than it was five years ago.

One: CW proved that you can recruit outstanding talent to the school. No more of the "academic standards are too high to recruit" stigma that Davie and Willingham unwittingly attached to the job as they were scrambling to cover their asses after failing miserably.

Two, ND still has a sweet television contract, has a wealthy base of alumni and is obviously relevant in the national media.

Three, it's a dream job for many coaches. There is and always will be something special about the University. The media can try to discredit the program but they can't take away tradition, national championships, Touchdown Jesus or an 80,000 seat stadium (yeah, this ain't Utah or Cincinnati).

Four, the program is nationally recongized with far reaching appeal. Seriously, I live in MT and I see ND shit everywhere. Do you know how many Florida fans I know? Exactly one and I've spent extensive time in Washington, Idaho and Oregon too. Guess what? Same story in those places. I know more ND fans in Washington than Husky fans.

Five, ND is still a premier job (look at the money) and there are no other elite programs with job openings this year....unless we should happen to lure away one of their coaches.

Six, just look at Alabama. They were 67-55 from 1997-2006. That's pretty mediocre. Now look at the program. From 1986-1997 Texas was 72-54-2. You get the idea, bringing dormant national powerhouses back into the NC picture is not without precedence.

Seven, ND has that sweet deal with the BCS. Tying into that is the fact that ND, despite their much talked about irrelvance, has three BCS appearances since 2001. That may not be good enough for all of us but lets not act as if that's entirely unimpressive.

Eight, If you think the expectations aren't high at Florida, Bama, USC, etc. than you're kidding yourself. Hell, I saw an article in a Los Angeles pub regarding how unacceptable it is that Pete Carrol seems to incur at least one headscratching, National Championship derailing loss every year. Never mind that the school was (another good example) teetering on the brink of irrelvance prior to his arrival. Expectations come with the business.
 

jason_h537

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i loveWeisbut this was not supposed to be a .500 year. It just doesnt look good for him.
 

tankjeep

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as much as i was a cw supporter....it's time for a change and this is the best time to get a top notch coach.
 

dskoo65

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id prefer a real head coach. i's also prefer not to see coach weis drop dead on the sideline next year. he has become obese, has trouble walking, and gets winded even from talking. he is a medical emergency waiting to happen.

this IS NOT to say it affects how players respond to him or his ability to coach, but who can argue that he needs to take a year to focus on his obesity before he drops dead.
 

phork

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Ok, I'm Making the thread, i dont give a rats ass what others think.

Charlie has worked his tail off for this university. Got us to 2 BCS bowls. 3 heisman hopefuls. tons of other awards, broke the bc streak, broke the bowl losing streak. he even broke his damn knees and stood the rest of the game on crutches!!

The players love him, the admin loves him, former greats love him(tim brown, Tony Rice, Lou holtz etc.)

I am just as disappointed as you guys are with this years record, but let Charlie, Jimmy, and Tate have there swan song in 2010!!!!!

GO IRISH!!!

and remember it could be worse.....we could be michigan fans!!!

No, ND is in a worse spot. ND lost to them. Yes he got ND 2 BCS blowouts. Yes he killed the bowl streak, even if it was Hawaii. Yes he killed the BC streak, barely, over a bad BC team. Yes ND came within a TD of a very bad USC team. And he even killed 43 year old Navy streak.

You do know that even if they all come back ND will have an 8 win ceiling next year, right? Sorry, his ticket is punched and this train is leaving the station.
 

NeuteredDoomer

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No, ND is in a worse spot. ND lost to them. Yes he got ND 2 BCS blowouts. Yes he killed the bowl streak, even if it was Hawaii. Yes he killed the BC streak, barely, over a bad BC team. Yes ND came within a TD of a very bad USC team. And he even killed 43 year old Navy streak.

You do know that even if they all come back ND will have an 8 win ceiling next year, right? Sorry, his ticket is punched and this train is leaving the station.

ND lost to the officials in the Bitchagain game.
 

JefMaj

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My sense of despare says it's over... I can't do it another year... I want to be the guys who says "We Rule... and you don't!" My heart as a romantic says that if he comes back: Come on Charlie, show 'em... WE ARE ND!!!

I can accept either... one more year.

God, grant me the serenity...
 

Irishlew

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Dude hasn't won anything with HIS players, top 10 recruiting classes year after year. He won with Willingham's players, hopefully someone else can win with his.
 
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PADOMERNUT

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No, ND is in a worse spot. ND lost to them. Yes he got ND 2 BCS blowouts. Yes he killed the bowl streak, even if it was Hawaii. Yes he killed the BC streak, barely, over a bad BC team. Yes ND came within a TD of a very bad USC team. And he even killed 43 year old Navy streak.

You do know that even if they all come back ND will have an 8 win ceiling next year, right? Sorry, his ticket is punched and this train is leaving the station.

I really dont think ND is in a worse spot that UM, regardless of the outcome of that one game. The cupboard at ND is stocked with much more talent than UM. Also possible NCAA sanctions arent looming over us.
 

RECON Daddy

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Unless we have a big name hire ready, I wouldn't be surprised to see Charlie back next year.
 
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IrishinSyria

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I'll go ahead and agree with everything. Sure, its going to be tough to argue if CW does get fired, but I for one would love to see him come back. In fact, I've been imagining a scenario where he agrees to restructure his contract to a one year deal with the option to extend it conditional on a BCS appearance. Not that its going to happen, but if it did perhaps it would pacify some of those out for blood.

CWs virtues and vices as a coach have been gone over countless times, and I see no reason to recount them here, but there is one change I would like to see: Charlie's love of hard hitting strong safeties. Don't get me wrong, I love a good open field hit as much as the next person, but throughout CW's time at ND it seems like the safeties have been great leaders and capable of giving thundering hits, but pretty weak on coverage. I still have nightmares of the angle Zbikowski took to get to the receiver on that long pass in the USC game that made the Bush push possible.

Anyways, that one caveat aside, I think it is undeniable that CW has taken this program in the right direction. In many ways, he is a victim of his own success, as the fact that he has assembled what seemed to be a very talented team is now being used as evidence of his own incompetence. And no matter what the ESPN "talent" may have to say about his record compared to Davie or Wilingham, in my heart I'm terrified we as a community are going to quit on CW on the final climb before the summit. Add to that the fact that CW has run a program that Notre Dame can be proud of (#1 in the country in graduation success, and I firmly believe that that number should matter just as much as a BCS ranking) and that he has brought the program out of the blowout era and it seems that we are risking a whole lot on the ability of some miracle head coach to come in and return the ND program to the glories of the early 90s.
 
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mick2

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Unless we have a big name hire ready, I wouldn't be surprised to see Charlie back next year.

swarbrick says there has been no contact between the school and any possible coaches even through third party services.

which could possibly be a load of crap, but if thats true then that leads me to believe Charlie has another year.
 

mick2

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I'll go ahead and agree with everything. Sure, its going to be tough to argue if CW does get fired, but I for one would love to see him come back. In fact, I've been imagining a scenario where he agrees to restructure his contract to a one year deal with the option to extend it conditional on a BCS appearance. Not that its going to happen, but if it did perhaps it would pacify some of those out for blood.

CWs virtues and vices as a coach have been gone over countless times, and I see no reason to recount them here, but there is one change I would like to see: Charlie's love of hard hitting strong safeties. Don't get me wrong, I love a good open field hit as much as the next person, but throught CWs time at ND it seems like the safeties have been great leaders and capable of giving thundering hits, but pretty weak on coverage. I still have nightmares of the angle Zbikowski took to get to the receiver on that long pass in the USC game that made the Bush push possible.

Anyways, that one caveat aside, I think it is undeniable that CW has taken this program in the right direction. In many ways, he is a victim of his own success, as the fact that he has assembled what seemed to be a very talented team is now being used as evidence of his own incompetence. And no matter what the ESPN "talent" may have to say about his record compared to Davie or Wilingham, in my heart I'm terrified we as a community are going to quit on CW on the final climb before the summit. Add to that the fact that CW has run a program that Notre Dame can be proud of (#1 in the country in graduation success, and I firmly believe that that number should matter just as much as a BCS ranking) and that he has brought the program out of the blowout era and it seems that we are risking a whole lot on the ability of some miracle head coach to come in and return the ND program to the glories of the early 90s.

exactly! who knows what the next guy will bring? proven success elsewhere doesnt mean proven success at ND.

Right on dude, this is what my original post would have looked like if i were that smart and eloquent.

REPS
 

IrishinSyria

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exactly! who knows what the next guy will bring? proven success elsewhere doesnt mean proven success at ND.

Right on dude
REPS

Time to get the keep Charlie ball rolling, I know there are more people out there who feel this way, they're just not as vocal as the head-hunters.
 

DKSchrute

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ND lost to the officials in the Bitchagain game.

But in retrospect, that game shouldnt have come down to officials. That game threw up the red flag to me.

On the surface it looked like a hard fought rivalry game.

Dig deeper and youre scratching your head asking "how did we lose this game?"

Then the season played out and Michigan really was a terrible team.

They beat directional Michigan schools and a 1AA opponent, Indiana,...........and Notre Dame. After the dust settled, we can look back and see we were more Michigan than we were BCS contender.
 

AlbuquerqueIrishFan

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As college football fans we lose touch with reality regarding our team more than any other sport. I now realize that I was blind for the past couple of years to the reality that Weis must go.

I love him, but his body of work speaks for itself.

1) Never beat USC
2) Lower winning percentage than Davie or Willingham
3) Embarrassing loses in bowls, LSU & Ohio St.
4) Loses to teams he shouldn't (Navy twice, Syracuse, UCONN, among others)
5) Bottom line, underachieved with this talented 2009 team and this was the last chance. Everyone knew going in there were no excuses for 2009.

Please take off the rose colored glasses and accept the inevitable. It sucks, but it needs to happen.
 

Catsudon

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id prefer a real head coach. i's also prefer not to see coach weis drop dead on the sideline next year. he has become obese, has trouble walking, and gets winded even from talking. he is a medical emergency waiting to happen.

this IS NOT to say it affects how players respond to him or his ability to coach, but who can argue that he needs to take a year to focus on his obesity before he drops dead.

look at mangino, he looks like he ate a man, and still have the ability to choke players.
 

The Polish Irishman

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CW is comparable to TY in the fact he was a good coach Sunday-Friday. He just didn't play golf all the time. Saturdays left a lot to be desired.

CW is a goner. He said all the right things, but the inability to build offensive and defensive lines will end his tenure.
 

NeuteredDoomer

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I'll go ahead and agree with everything. Sure, its going to be tough to argue if CW does get fired, but I for one would love to see him come back. In fact, I've been imagining a scenario where he agrees to restructure his contract to a one year deal with the option to extend it conditional on a BCS appearance. Not that its going to happen, but if it did perhaps it would pacify some of those out for blood.

CWs virtues and vices as a coach have been gone over countless times, and I see no reason to recount them here, but there is one change I would like to see: Charlie's love of hard hitting strong safeties. Don't get me wrong, I love a good open field hit as much as the next person, but throughout CW's time at ND it seems like the safeties have been great leaders and capable of giving thundering hits, but pretty weak on coverage. I still have nightmares of the angle Zbikowski took to get to the receiver on that long pass in the USC game that made the Bush push possible.

Anyways, that one caveat aside, I think it is undeniable that CW has taken this program in the right direction. In many ways, he is a victim of his own success, as the fact that he has assembled what seemed to be a very talented team is now being used as evidence of his own incompetence. And no matter what the ESPN "talent" may have to say about his record compared to Davie or Wilingham, in my heart I'm terrified we as a community are going to quit on CW on the final climb before the summit. Add to that the fact that CW has run a program that Notre Dame can be proud of (#1 in the country in graduation success, and I firmly believe that that number should matter just as much as a BCS ranking) and that he has brought the program out of the blowout era and it seems that we are risking a whole lot on the ability of some miracle head coach to come in and return the ND program to the glories of the early 90s.

Nice post. Especially agree with the summit statement. Fantastic.
 

DKSchrute

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CW is comparable to TY in the fact he was a good coach Sunday-Friday. He just didn't play golf all the time. Saturdays left a lot to be desired.

CW is a goner. He said all the right things, but the inability to build offensive and defensive lines will end his tenure.


Very true. Charlie Weis is a guy who loves his toys - aka a offensive creator. The teams really reflect on his coaching. His teams, since day 1, have always revolved around skill players on the offensive side of the ball.

Charlie has been building teams from the outside in. He shouldve been building from the inside out. He shouldve gone after lineman on both sides of the ball as his top initiatives.

We can see the stockpiling of offensive skill guys and the thining of line recruits. This is a recipe for same ole same ole with Charlie. Flashy players but ultimately average football.
 

mick2

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As college football fans we lose touch with reality regarding our team more than any other sport. I now realize that I was blind for the past couple of years to the reality that Weis must go.

I love him, but his body of work speaks for itself.

1) Never beat USC
2) Lower winning percentage than Davie or Willingham
3) Embarrassing loses in bowls, LSU & Ohio St.
4) Loses to teams he shouldn't (Navy twice, Syracuse, UCONN, among others)
5) Bottom line, underachieved with this talented 2009 team and this was the last chance. Everyone knew going in there were no excuses for 2009.

Please take off the rose colored glasses and accept the inevitable. It sucks, but it needs to happen.

i dont have rose colored glasses on, i realize this was a terrible year for our expectations. But i believe Charlie has this program headed in the right direction.

You have your opinion and i have mine.

neither set of fans are wrong, we are too quick to say youre wrong, Charlie needs to go. In your eyes maybe he does, does that make it right?

This thread was called Bring Charlie Back, not fire charlie so why dont all of the people that want him gone go to the other millions of threads and spread your infinite wisdom there.

Its not as black and white as you all make it out to be. i pray to God that Swarbrick is not like some of the fans on this board.
 

The Polish Irishman

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So, Mick why should CW stay? And the argument the program is heading in the right direction has no legs because we keep losing. Graduations rate under Davie and Ty were also very, very good.

So convince us?
 
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