Biggest concern after week one.

[LOVEMYIRISH]

Implicit in this statement, which I don't think you realize, is YOUR belief that either the offense can't score with the top teams in the country or our defense can't stop them.
Or both.
Either way offensive capability or defensive ineptitude is really you primary concern.
Your field goal kicking concern is an excuse.

No. You are flat out wrong.

My concern is that if we really are a top team...we need to assume there are other top teams out there. And that we/they need multiple weapons to win. All teams that win big never win with ONE weapon. And they do not win with gaping holes in their team.

You need to be complete, or you will never win the big one.

I am not assuming the Defense or Offense are incompetent. I am assuming that kicking is PART of the Offense. Without that, the rest of the Offense has to be EVEN BETTER. The Defense has to be EVEN BETTER. Because they have to cover for a HUGE gap in the Offense.

Care for an example or two?

1988 - Reggie Ho - Kicks a field goal with 1:13 left on the clock. We beat Michigan 19-17. That year we win the National Championship.
1973 - Bob Thomas - Kicks a field goal with 4:26 left on the clock. We beat 'Bama in the Sugar Bowl 24-23 and win the NC.

If Reggie misses, we don't win the Title. If Bob misses, we don't win the title.

So, I believe the kicking game is critical. Not because other aspects of the team are INCOMPETENT, but because ALL aspects of the team are IMPORTANT.

Apparently, it saved us two titles...

 

[NDAlumSon]

All right I give. Let's take Gioia out back and shoot him.

 

[NDOM]

My main concern is the offensive line. Too many veterans to be allowing that pressure all game by georgia tech. If you ask me I personally think that sam young did the best on the line all game. Also the kicking game needs to improve and improve fast with michigan and michigan state around the corner. The defensive line is fine for now. we got some pressure but I think we didnt want to get too much because if we flush reggie ball out of the pocket; that could have spelled DISASTER. We all know what happens when we face a mobile QB.

 

[Sir John]

I tink Deerocks on the right path here

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

All right I give. Let's take Gioia out back and shoot him.

I have no beef with Gioa. It's not personal. I am simply saying that the kicking game MUST improve for us to have a shot at the title. We could get lucky and pull it off without a good kicker.

But both the 1973 and 1988 teams required a kicker who made some key kicks...I have no reason with this team to think that they are better than the '73 or '88 teams.

So, all I am saying is that the kicking game is my key concern. I am not labeling anyone a failure.

 

[jiggafini19]

Gioia will knock home his next FG attempt, and it will be Saturday vs. PSU.

 

[scooper]

Gioia will knock home his next FG attempt, and it will be Saturday vs. PSU.

Which will give us a 17 point lead. grin:

 

[NDAlumSon]

I have no beef with Gioa. It's not personal.

Yeah I know. It's strictly business. But remember....Sonny got killed anyway.

I am simply saying that the kicking game MUST improve for us to have a shot at the title. We could get lucky and pull it off without a good kicker.

Shouldn't there be an OR in there?

But both the 1973 and 1988 teams required a kicker who made some key kicks...I have no reason with this team to think that they are better than the '73 or '88 teams.

God, I get tired of these historical references. As if they have any bearing whatsoever on the here and now. Yes, yes a good field goal kicking game is nice. It's a great weapon to have. But if you don't have it, then what? Call Joe and cancel the game?
We can't find Osama either........so should we give up on the war against terrorism?

So, all I am saying is that the kicking game is my key concern. I am not labeling anyone a failure.

Now you tell me. I already shot him !

Gioia will knock home his next FG attempt, and it will be Saturday vs. PSU.

This is right.
But be prepared to hear from our fellow brethren that Notre Dame NOW has the best kicking game in the history of college football.......because back in 1887 and then again in 1923 we made a kick that not only won us a game but saved the world from imminent doom.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

God, I get tired of these historical references. As if they have any bearing whatsoever on the here and now. Yes, yes a good field goal kicking game is nice. It's a great weapon to have. But if you don't have it, then what? Call Joe and cancel the game?

Well, they prove a point which is that amongst ND's best teams a critical field goal pushed them over the top.

It's important to note, because it shows that even 2 of the very best teams in ND History required FG support to win. It's just some perspective.

As I stated before, not because the D or O was incompetent, but because kicking is an important part of the O.

 

[NDAlumSon]

Well, they prove a point which is that amongst ND's best teams a critical field goal pushed them over the top.

It's important to note, because it shows that even 2 of the very best teams in ND History required FG support to win. It's just some perspective.

As I stated before, not because the D or O was incompetent, but because kicking is an important part of the O.

You are absolutely right. Historically, you're first sentence, is absolutely factual. No doubt about it. I'm no doubt guilty of jumping the gun on the Weis decade where his/our/ND's teams will be so explosive, like (...insert team here...) in (...insert year here...), that field goal kickers are much less of a worry than we see here after 1 week.
I realize that those squads are probably down the road a bit but....one, this team has the capability to do something special, and as for the future....well, I've already drunk the elixir and I'm starting to feel the effects.

 

[tommy]

win win win the 3 key things for nd

 

[BGIF]

How did Gioia win the placekicking job?

That's based strictly on statistical information that we've drawn through the whole camp. Carl's kicked quicker and more accurately than anybody else.

Charlie Weis

 

[NDAlumSon]

How did Gioia win the placekicking job?

Quote:
That's based strictly on statistical information that we've drawn through the whole camp. Carl's kicked quicker and more accurately than anybody else.


Charlie Weis

There you go. That's an assist.
Now, if the Penn State game comes down to a field goal and he misses....then we shoot him.

 

[BGIF]

OK...Field Goal unit is my biggest concern....

A disproportionate concern.

Why? Because against top teams we will need every point we can muster....

Why disproportionate? Because FGs are worth 3 points. TDs gross 7 points.

Gioa gave up 6 points to a mid-tier ACC team. ...

Then by your logic the Offense gave up 56 points to that same mid-tier ACC team. The Offense had 10 possessions and only score twice. They failed 80% of the time. Nine penalites, 6 dropped balls, how many overthrown, too many missed blocks to count.

Too harsh a guideline? OK the Offense got into the Red Zone three times so they only failed 70% of the time. 42 yd FGs are outside the Red Zone.

What happens when the game is on the line with PSU, UM, UCLA, USC, or MSU? ...

Is the game on the line because the Offense failed to execute any passing TDs like they didn't do against a mid-tier ACC team?

Will the running game one again fail to produce a 100 yd rusher like they did against a mid-tier ACC team? (ND was 6-1 last season when Walker ran for 100 yds.)

Will the Offensive line get 18 penalties when facing the athletes of PSU, Michigan, and USC?

How many GT players would start for PSU, UM, or USC?

Will he choke and cost us the game?...

Choke? Choke?

Charlie Weis said he planted his left foot incorrectly. That's mechanics not psychological. Thank you, Dr Freud for your elegant analysis.

I am not saying that anyone else is a better kicker than him... I am saying it's my biggest concern....

Charlie will be relieved as he stated before the GT game that Gioia was the best. And he repeated it since the game.

Another reason it's my biggest concern is that FG units are much harder to make successful adjustments in...

Really?

The FG unit had perfect snaps.

The FG unit had perfect holds.

The FG unit had proper protection.

The FG KICKER planted his left foot wrong twice. His kicks were still HIGH and DEEP. His improper stance resulted in a hooking the ball.

I've got to believe it's easier to get one man to point the toes on one foot in a slightly different direction than it is to get the 5 man OLine, the TE(s) and the blocking back(s) to read the defenses the same, to coordinate their blocking assignments, adjust those assignments for stunts and blitzes, and then execute those 6 or 8 blocks so Quinn doesn't have to run for his life like he did against a mid-tier ACC team. Maybe then Quinn won't consistently overthrow open receivers downfield and the FG kicker can sit on the bench and focus on kicking 10 extra points.

 

[BGIF]

No. You are flat out wrong.

My concern is that if we really are a top team...we need to assume there are other top teams out there. And that we/they need multiple weapons to win. All teams that win big never win with ONE weapon. And they do not win with gaping holes in their team.

You need to be complete, or you will never win the big one.

I am not assuming the Defense or Offense are incompetent. I am assuming that kicking is PART of the Offense. Without that, the rest of the Offense has to be EVEN BETTER. The Defense has to be EVEN BETTER. Because they have to cover for a HUGE gap in the Offense.

Care for an example or two?

1988 - Reggie Ho - Kicks a field goal with 1:13 left on the clock. We beat Michigan 19-17. That year we win the National Championship.
1973 - Bob Thomas - Kicks a field goal with 4:26 left on the clock. We beat 'Bama in the Sugar Bowl 24-23 and win the NC.

If Reggie misses, we don't win the Title. If Bob misses, we don't win the title.

So, I believe the kicking game is critical. Not because other aspects of the team are INCOMPETENT, but because ALL aspects of the team are IMPORTANT.

Apparently, it saved us two titles...

Your needing all the points comment struck me the same way it did NDAlumSon. I like your reference of prior games to support your point even if it doesn't

Well, they prove a point which is that amongst ND's best teams a critical field goal pushed them over the top.

It's important to note, because it shows that even 2 of the very best teams in ND History required FG support to win. It's just some perspective.

As I stated before, not because the D or O was incompetent, but because kicking is an important part of the O.

If you're gonna cite examples why not tell the whole story.

You know the part about the '88 Michigan game where Rice missed his first 9 passes! Where he only completed 3 passes in the entire game for a paltry 40 yards!

Where ND scored no passing TDs!

Where ND scored NO Rushing TDs!

You do recall the ND Offense was SHUTOUT!

All ND points were scored by Special Teams. Watters had the only ND TD on a 81 yd PUNT RETURN!

Ho scored the other 13 on an Extra Point Kick and 4 FGs, 31 yds, 38 yds, 26 yds, and 26 yds. Reggie was perfect but did you notice that none were over 40 yds?

Yes, Reggie scored the deciding points but only because the vaunted Irish Offense was shutout that game. Some, not I mind you, even commented their performance was, dare I say it, incompetent.

The '73 Sugar Bowl as an exciting game. Yes, Bob Thomas scored the deciding points but only because Bama's kicker missed an EXTRA POINT when Bama took the lead midway through the 4th quarter on a razzle dazzle halfback pass to the Bama QB (that nobody on the ND defense bothered to cover. I won't even mention competence). Without that botched Extra Point by Bama's (incompetent?) kicker. The game ends in a 24-24 tie. Unless of course, we note that ND didn't score an Extra Point on it's first TD when the snap from center was bad.

I guess we shouldn't discuss the 4 ND fumbles (3 lost) nor the 5 Bama fumbles (2 lost) and the pass Bama had intercepted. The game had 3 turnovers in 90 seconds! Those TOs shouldn't garner any consideration as factors in the game I suspect. I guess we shouldn't mention either that Bob Thomas MISSED TWO FG ATTEMPTS earlier in the game.

Nor should be mention what is usually considered the deciding factor in the game. With 3 minutes to play with a 23-21 lead Bama' punter booted a 69 yd punt that backed the Irish up to their own 1 yd line. The kicker was fouled which would have change the down to 4th and 5. But Bear Bryant declined the penalty believing his defense hold the Irish with no manuvering room at the own one. That set the stage for the Pass Heard 'Round The World, Clements to Weber, 37 yds out of the ND end zone. The Irish then marched down to the Bama 3 where Thomas finally made a FG (1 for 3).

One Missed Extra Point snap.
One Missed Extra Point.
One INT
One Coaching Gaff
Two Missed FGs.
9 Fumbles (5 lost)

There was a lot of 'competence in that game, all around.

Regardless of the final scoring play, all the points counted. The final score is the sum of the parts. The effort of at least 24 players on each team, and the decisions their coaches make.

When the Offense and Defense execute properly the kickers don't usually have a significant role.

 

[scooper]

BGIF is a machine.

 

[NDAlumSon]

BGIF is a machine.

With a crack research department.
BGIF= Big Gobs of InFormation.
Case closed.

 

[jiggafini19]

Carl Gioia does not kick the ball with authority or power. His approach when he kicks the ball looks very casual. He needs to start blasting the ball between the uprights, which is his job.

He starts doing that, debate over. For now, since the Blue and Gold game, he's 1 for 5 kicking field goals. When talking about kickers, Charlie Weis mentioned the "pop" sound the ball makes when the kicker strikes it. Gioia did not have that vs. GT.

Gioia needs to find the pop in his leg.

And please don't shoot him.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

A disproportionate concern.

Why disproportionate? Because FGs are worth 3 points. TDs gross 7 points.

Not disproportionate at all. I believe the Offense can pull it together. They did quite well last year.

I have seen Gioia struggle with easy kicks...so he is my greatest concern.

Then by your logic the Offense gave up 56 points to that same mid-tier ACC team. The Offense had 10 possessions and only score twice. They failed 80% of the time. Nine penalites, 6 dropped balls, how many overthrown, too many missed blocks to count.

That is not my logic in the least.

Too harsh a guideline? OK the Offense got into the Red Zone three times so they only failed 70% of the time. 42 yd FGs are outside the Red Zone.

Apples and Oranges.

Is the game on the line because the Offense failed to execute any passing TDs like they didn't do against a mid-tier ACC team?

Will the running game one again fail to produce a 100 yd rusher like they did against a mid-tier ACC team? (ND was 6-1 last season when Walker ran for 100 yds.)

Will the Offensive line get 18 penalties when facing the athletes of PSU, Michigan, and USC?

How many GT players would start for PSU, UM, or USC?

All these points are irrelevant to my concern over the kicking game.

Choke? Choke?

Charlie Weis said he planted his left foot incorrectly. That's mechanics not psychological. Thank you, Dr Freud for your elegant analysis.

The two go hand in hand. And you are welcome.

Yeah, he choked. Two botched FGs...not particularly tough ones either.

He choked. Or he sucks.

If I tried the kick I would miss it too. But I suck.

Charlie will be relieved as he stated before the GT game that Gioia was the best. And he repeated it since the game.

And hence my concern for now.

The FG KICKER planted his left foot wrong twice. His kicks were still HIGH and DEEP. His improper stance resulted in a hooking the ball.

I've got to believe it's easier to get one man to point the toes on one foot in a slightly different direction than it is to get the 5 man OLine, the TE(s) and the blocking back(s) to read the defenses the same, to coordinate their blocking assignments, adjust those assignments for stunts and blitzes, and then execute those 6 or 8 blocks so Quinn doesn't have to run for his life like he did against a mid-tier ACC team. Maybe then Quinn won't consistently overthrow open receivers downfield and the FG kicker can sit on the bench and focus on kicking 10 extra points.

Tough to say. Some kickers have it, some don't. Until Gioia shows us that he can be successful I will worry about the kicking game most... The offense has a track record of success last year...and I think they will return to that greatness.

 

[jiggafini19]

The Carl Gioia battle cry.

 

[BGIF]

The Carl Gioia battle cry.

Amen!

 

[NDStevie]

It's the kicking game, as soon as giona or whatever his name is missed that field goal against g tech it gave them the momentum, the kicking game needs to improve or we might lose some games because of the kicking game

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

The Carl Gioia battle cry.

Hell ya!!!

Honestly, I don't care WHO makes the kicks. I just want them made. A la Nick Setta's 15 for 17 effort a few years back.

 

[gipper2nd@yahoo.com]

to lovemyirish: Remember that in '88, when we won the NC, Reggie Ho was barely even considered an average kicker. So if Gioia turns out to be even average, we got a good shot.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

to lovemyirish: Remember that in '88, when we won the NC, Reggie Ho was barely even considered an average kicker. So if Gioia turns out to be even average, we got a good shot.

I guess it all matters when you make the kick.