'24 MO OT Andrew Sprague (Michigan Verbal)

[irishfan]

Sadly, at this moment in time, I think there is going to be a theme here. Gross. Even that is hard to type.

There will still be people arguing he’s overrated and that we should be happy Michigan is stuck with him

 

[CoachB]

The problem is Michigan has been an above average team with a joke of a schedule these last two years so people think they are good. If they start getting some recruits, they may actually start to become good. That can't happen. Too bad their schedule is a joke again in 2023.

 

[MacIrish75]

The problem is Michigan has been an above average team with a joke of a schedule these last two years so people think they are good. If they start getting some recruits, they may actually start to become good. That can't happen. Too bad their schedule is a joke again in 2023.

It’s brilliant, really. I can’t blame them.

ND on the other hand…

 

[CoachB]

It’s brilliant, really. I can’t blame them.

ND on the other hand…

Very true. Good point. Why wouldn't ND do something like this and have to win one competitive game to go to the playoffs? I would still pay the money to go watch them beat up on East Carolina or IU.

 

[Luckylucci]

The problem is Michigan has been an above average team with a joke of a schedule these last two years so people think they are good. If they start getting some recruits, they may actually start to become good. That can't happen. Too bad their schedule is a joke again in 2023.

While this may be true.

Consider that, to close out 2021, they beat then #23 PSU on the road, housed #2 OSU at home, and then housed #15 Iowa to win the BIG10 championship. They beat the #2 and #15 teams by a combined 84-30 in back to back games. If that was ND, I'd be plant a flag on that hill and die on it.

Then, in 2022, they beat the then #10 PSU 41-17 and #2 OSU 45-23. So, at the time it was two top 10 wins by a combined score of 86-40. Again, if this is ND, I'm dying on that damn hill.

Say what you want about Harbaugh (I hate the guy, with a passion) but he has this thing rolling at the worst possible time for ND. And, it looks like it could get tough on the recruiting trail because of it. Freeman needs to win big this year.

 

[CoachB]

While this may be true.

Consider that, to close out 2021, they beat then #23 PSU on the road, housed #2 OSU at home, and then housed #15 Iowa to win the BIG10 championship. They beat the #2 and #15 teams by a combined 84-30 in back to back games. If that was ND, I'd be plant a flag on that hill and die on it.

Then, in 2022, they beat the then #10 PSU 41-17 and #2 OSU 45-23. So, at the time it was two top 10 wins by a combined score of 86-40. Again, if this is ND, I'm dying on that damn hill.

Say what you want but Harbaugh (I hate the guy, with a passion) he has this thing rolling at the worst possible time for ND. And, it looks like it could get tough on the recruiting trail because of it. Freeman needs to win big this year.

I agree with all you said. Especially the Freeman winning part. However, IMO, OSU was the only good team you mentioned in that. Ths others were just byproducts of a crappy schedule. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter how overrated they are, we just need to win.

 

[ndfanatic78]

I agree with all you said. Especially the Freeman winning part. However, IMO, OSU was the only good team you mentioned in that. Ths others were just byproducts of a crappy schedule. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter how overrated they are, we just need to win.

You could say that about every major win ND has had over the past decade.

 

[Luckylucci]

I agree with all you said. Especially the Freeman winning part. However, IMO, OSU was the only good team you mentioned in that. Ths others were just byproducts of a crappy schedule. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter how overrated they are, we just need to win.

Unless you have an extremely narrow view of what "good" is, I just don't see how you can reach that conclusion. They beat 4 teams that finished in the S&P+ top 25. Which includes beating the #4 and #6 teams by a combined score of 86-40. Dude that's impressive. Their only loss was to the #8 team, in a hotly contest ball game.

PSU finished the season at #6 in S&P+. They won the Rose Bowl last year by beating, then, #7 Utah by a score of 35-21. The same Utah team that completely embarrassed USC the week before. The same USC team that completely embarrassed ND the week before that. If PSU wasn't a good team last year then ND was a terrible team.

Again, we have to ask ourselves, what would we be saying if these were ND's wins? We'd be freaking the fuck out. Just like everyone did when Freeman beat an insanely overrated Clemson team last year. People literally called it the greatest win of the last two decades while Michigan had two wins more impressive than that.

 

[IrishMoore1]

Unless you have an extremely narrow view of what "good" is, I just don't see how you can reach that conclusion. They beat 4 teams that finished in the S&P+ top 25. Which includes beating the #4 and #6 teams by a combined score of 86-40. Dude that's impressive. Their only loss was to the #8 team, in a hotly contest ball game.

I don't follow SP+ and the final rankings appear to be behind a paywall on ESPN, so I can't give any credibility to it. The final AP Top 25 poll had Penn State finish at #7 and OSU at #4, so 2 ranked wins, not 4. Who are the other two in your final ranking??

PSU finished the season at #6 in S&P+. They won the Rose Bowl last year by beating, then, #7 Utah by a score of 35-21. The same Utah team that completely embarrassed USC the week before. The same USC team that completely embarrassed ND the week before that. If PSU wasn't a good team last year then ND was a terrible team.

This type of logic doesn't ever hold up or make sense in college football. Marshal beat ND, who beat Clemson. By your logic, Marshall is a better team than Clemson.

Again, we have to ask ourselves, what would we be saying if these were ND's wins? We'd be freaking the fuck out. Just like everyone did when Freeman beat an insanely overrated Clemson team last year. People literally called it the greatest win of the last two decades while Michigan had two wins more impressive than that.

We would be saying the same thing. We played a weak ass schedule and had 2 good wins over the only 2 good teams on the schedule. Ohio State was the better win because it was at the horse shoe, against a top 2 opponent. We didn't get to tune up and play high school teams up until game 7. We started at the horse shoe.

 

[MacIrish75]

Perception is reality.

These kids don’t follow S&P+ or stuff like that. They see 12-1 with a loss in the CFP. It is what it is.

 

[Luckylucci]

I don't follow SP+ and the final rankings appear to be behind a paywall on ESPN, so I can't give any credibility to it. The final AP Top 25 poll had Penn State finish at #7 and OSU at #4, so 2 ranked wins, not 4. Who are the other two in your final ranking??


This type of logic doesn't ever hold up or make sense in college football. Marshal beat ND, who beat Clemson. By your logic, Marshall is a better team than Clemson.


We would be saying the same thing. We played a weak ass schedule and had 2 good wins over the only 2 good teams on the schedule. Ohio State was the better win because it was at the horse shoe, against a top 2 opponent. We didn't get to tune up and play high school teams up until game 7. We started at the horse shoe.

Illinois and Iowa finished in the top 25 of the S&P+. Illinois at 21 and Iowa at 23.

I agree that I hate the transitive property in sports. You're getting lost in the one line about ND being a terrible team. At least that wasn't my intention. I'm saying that if PSU isn't a "good" team, than none of Utah, USC, or ND were either. And, if none of those teams are "good" then the expectation one has for "good" is far too narrow. ND will likely rarely be "good" if that's the case. Which is where the transitive property has some value. Look at teams in groupings. Likely, these are all "good" teams.

The fan base pissed it pants when we beat an incredibly overrated Clemson team. No, we wouldn't have. My whole point is, it's very easy to see why recruits and the Michigan fanbase is hyped up right now. As difficult as it is to accept, they deserve it.

 

[CoachB]

Penn State was a good team. Elite? No. If Utah was at full strength that may have been a different game. I think UM is highly overrated. Lost to a TCU team with the #78 D in the country. However, like you said, recruits will see 12-1 and CFP berth. It's disgusting, and will keep on happening with their weak, weak schedule

 

[notredomer23]

I despise Michigan but they were a great football team last year regardless of who they played. Why does their have to be all these circular debates?

 

[TorontoGold]

I despise Michigan but they were a great football team last year regardless of who they played. Why does their have to be all these circular debates?

I think not enough people are giving BK credit for his successes, he was able to bring ND back from the dark ages under Wieiss. He may have been a prick, but he won a lot of games and hired Elko who started a run of great DC hires. I think his recruiting was underrated as we have seen Freeman have similar recruiting results as Kelley. Although I'm not happy that he hired Thommy Reece, but he's gone now. Freeman needs to go 13-1 this year to prove all the doubters wrong that he doesn't have the chops, not me because I'm impartial, but it's a VERY important year for Freeman to prove himself. He was brought in to recruit but he's just doing what Kelely was doing, but the ND BOT isn't helping him but the onus is on Freemen to prove he can do it. Look at Michigan, how can they continue to have success but ND is failing so miserably??? hmmmm IB was right....

- You mean you don't like seeing this paragraph in every thread?

 

[CoachB]

I despise Michigan but they were a great football team last year regardless of who they played. Why does their have to be all these circular debates?

Great? I don't think so. Top 10 likely. I just live in UM country and I hate their cocky fans thinking they were better than they were.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

Penn State was a good team. Elite? No. If Utah was at full strength that may have been a different game. I think UM is highly overrated. Lost to a TCU team with the #78 D in the country. However, like you said, recruits will see 12-1 and CFP berth. It's disgusting, and will keep on happening with their weak, weak schedule

So does anyone with eyes. We can hate on them as much as we desire, but I'm taking a 12-1 season and CFP appearance wherever I can get one. Nobody said anything about their schedule when they were going 10-3. Suddenly it's an issue when they win every game? Any time Notre Dame has anything remotely resembling a good season we hear the same argument about their schedule. In most cases, even if the analysis is accurate, it stems from bias.

Everyone can choose bias while also accepting reality. I don't like Michigan, but they have gotten a lot more right in the last two seasons and that comes simply by winning games that are on their schedule.

This being said, I think there could be a reckoning coming soon based on some of the players Michigan is losing and how they've recruited. It's going to depend on the portal for them heavily. They had a vpery good OL transfer into their team last season who played a huge role in anchoring their offense. Let's see what it all looks like now.

Sprague is a prize to whatever program signs him. I wish it could have somehow been ND, but I fully understand why he's choosing Michigan even though I don't like it.