2014 Depth Chart Predictions

[koonja]

I'm not trying to be a contrarian, but I think the 3 players will be missed in order of their talent, but in descending order.

Ishaq is the least talented of the 3, but he's our only starting senior DL, and we were already counting on 3-4 not very highly touted true freshman to play meaningful minutes. The last place you want to play true freshman is in the trenches/QB.

DD is our only proven WR, IMO. He's big, fast, strong. He would have been a work horse for us this year. Robinson, Fuller, Brown are all solid players, but none of them are a complete package like DD. Our offense would have been much better with him.

KVR is a rock star, but we have Cole Luke and Cody Riggs starting. That should be a good top 2. After that, Josh Atkinson and Devin Butler have at least seen the field before, and Watkins might be the most ready true freshman based on early reports. Worst case scenario, we can always move Farley back to corner. Maybe this makes Shummate the nickel corner again, which I'd also be comfortable with.

Anyone want to take a shot at the revised 2-deep with me? Let's see what we're working with.

 

[koonja]

I would love to see Justin Brent just take over. He's our biggest bodied received, as far as strength. I think that's important to have. Fuller, Brown, and Robinson are all twigs compared to DD and Brent.

 

[Irish YJ]

I'm not trying to be a contrarian, but I think the 3 players will be missed in order of their talent, but in descending order.

Ishaq is the least talented of the 3, but he's our only starting senior DL, and we were already counting on 3-4 not very highly touted true freshman to play meaningful minutes. The last place you want to play true freshman is in the trenches/QB.

DD is our only proven WR, IMO. He's big, fast, strong. He would have been a work horse for us this year. Robinson, Fuller, Brown are all solid players, but none of them are a complete package like DD. Our offense would have been much better with him.

KVR is a rock star, but we have Cole Luke and Cody Riggs starting. That should be a good top 2. After that, Josh Atkinson and Devin Butler have at least seen the field before, and Watkins might be the most ready true freshman based on early reports. Worst case scenario, we can always move Farley back to corner. Maybe this makes Shummate the nickel corner again, which I'd also be comfortable with.

Anyone want to take a shot at the revised 2-deep with me? Let's see what we're working with.

Koon I agree whole heartedly.

Talent/NFL Order
DD 1A
KVR 1B
IW distant 3rd

Depth concerns
DE 1 by a huge margin
CB 2A Great talent, some proven (Riggs and others), but very young (Luke, Butler, Watkins)
WR 2B - we have an embarrassment of riches here. CR will catch anything thrown to him. CB has been killing it this year and will break out big time IMHO.

DD and KVR's NFL order and talent can be debated, but I think we can all agree IW is the least talented, but DE is by far the biggest area of concern from a talent/experience/depth perspective.

 

[irishfan]

Wonder if this pushed a guy like Bonner out to SDE? Our depth at DT and SDE are both brutal. I feel better about moving Bonner to be the #2 SDE and bumping someone like Utupo/Cage/Mokwuah/Hounshell up the depth chart than I do about keeping Bonner at DT and relying on Blankenship or Hayes to be the #2 SDE.

This just kills us because I thought Rochell was going to be the ultimate utility man on the DL and moved all over the place. Really thought he was the "next man in" at SDE and both DT spots. Now, he's seemingly locked in at SDE. He seemed to be far our most established backup.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Here is one thing.

In '12 when Mathias Farley had his "best season." The popular thinking was that it was due to the fact that he was not "exposed."

When I watched the tapes, that year Kelvarie Russell received the same benefit.

In '13 Russell had a great second half against Rutgers in the Pinstripe Bowl, and some other outstanding play in the season. But he also had the Michigan game. And, ND still played a lot of zone last year. Maybe Russell is the second coming. But he is far from a proven commodity.

I really think that we should not treat Russell like he is guilty, before he is charged, and we should not treat him like an All-American before he gets a chance to play and prove it.

Is he the best we have had lately? Maybe. Likely. Is he irreplaceable. His own career shouts out that he isn't.

 

[Irish YJ]

Here is one thing.

In '12 when Mathias Farley had his "best season." The popular thinking was that it was due to the fact that he was not "exposed."

When I watched the tapes, that year Kelvarie Russell received the same benefit.

In '13 Russell had a great second half against Rutgers in the Pinstripe Bowl, and some other outstanding play in the season. But he also had the Michigan game. And, ND still played a lot of zone last year. Maybe Russell is the second coming. But he is far from a proven commodity.

I really think that we should not treat Russell like he is guilty, before he is charged, and we should not treat him like an All-American before he gets a chance to play and prove it.

Is he the best we have had lately? Maybe. Likely. Is he irreplaceable. His own career shouts out that he isn't.

Yup, yup, and yup.

 

[NDWorld247]

Wonder if this pushed a guy like Bonner out to SDE? Our depth at DT and SDE are both brutal. I feel better about moving Bonner to be the #2 SDE and bumping someone like Utupo/Cage/Mokwuah/Hounshell up the depth chart than I do about keeping Bonner at DT and relying on Blankenship or Hayes to be the #2 SDE.

This just kills us because I thought Rochell was going to be the ultimate utility man on the DL and moved all over the place. Really thought he was the "next man in" at SDE and both DT spots. Now, he's seemingly locked in at SDE. He seemed to be far our most established backup.

I don't share the "depth" concern that some have on the DL. We are 4-deep at every position with 16 players (assuming Ishaq doesn't return):

DE: Rochell, Trumbetti, Okwara, Williams, Hill, Rabassa, Blankenship, Hayes
DT: Day, Jones, Bonner, Cage, Hounshell, Matuska, Utupo, Mokwuah

"Quality depth" is the real concern most have (and what they mean when they say "depth"), and it's a legitimate one. Of the 16 players, ten are in their 1st or 2nd year and only two are playing out their last year of eligibility. Only two or three (Day, Jones, Rochell?) have started a CFB game in their career and Day is the only one that's started more than a handful of games. "Quality depth" is a big question mark because we haven't seen any of the 12 non-starters play meaningful (or any at all) minutes in a CFB game (13 if you add starter Trumbetti to that group).

But, I'm confident in the unproven talent that we have. Trumbetti and Bonner are stars in the making and should have freshmen moments, but will contribute right away. Okwara has shown enough IMO to warrant some confidence. Cage, Williams and Hill will be put in positions to succeed in limited but much needed roles. Blankenship, Hayes and Mokwuah need some time to development but could surprise and anything from Rabassa, Hounshell, Matuska or Utupo is a bonus. Of those last seven names, we need one, maybe two, to step up as we're probably not going to play 10+ DL.

I think you're right about Bonner, and I don't think he's the only candidate to potentially slide out. BK has said we're going to play a lot of guys, but our packages will be specialized to highlight our players' strengths. We have a few guys (e.g. Day, Rochell) with great scheme versatility that will allow BVG to mix-and-match along the DL to fit the game situation. Obviously Ishaq's absence changes Rochell's "utility" role, but it puts him on the field more which IMO is a GREAT thing, and I think he still ends up moving around a bit.

If we lose some guys to injury we could be in trouble, but as of right now I'm excited to see what this group can do.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I don't share the "depth" concern that some have on the DL. We are 4-deep at every position with 16 players (assuming Ishaq doesn't return):

DE: Rochell, Trumbetti, Okwara, Williams, Hill, Rabassa, Blankenship, Hayes
DT: Day, Jones, Bonner, Cage, Hounshell, Matuska, Utupo, Mokwuah

"Quality depth" is the real concern most have (and what they mean when they say "depth"), and it's a legitimate one. Of the 16 players, ten are in their 1st or 2nd year and only two are playing out their last year of eligibility. Only two or three (Day, Jones, Rochell?) have started a CFB game in their career and Day is the only one that's started more than a handful of games. "Quality depth" is a big question mark because we haven't seen any of the 12 non-starters play meaningful (or any at all) minutes in a CFB game (13 if you add starter Trumbetti to that group).

But, I'm confident in the unproven talent that we have. Trumbetti and Bonner are stars in the making and should have freshmen moments, but will contribute right away. Okwara has shown enough IMO to warrant some confidence. Cage, Williams and Hill will be put in positions to succeed in limited but much needed roles. Blankenship, Hayes and Mokwuah need some time to development but could surprise and anything from Rabassa, Hounshell, Matuska or Utupo is a bonus. Of those last seven names, we need one, maybe two, to step up as we're probably not going to play 10+ DL.

I think you're right about Bonner, and I don't think he's the only candidate to potentially slide out. BK has said we're going to play a lot of guys, but our packages will be specialized to highlight our players' strengths. We have a few guys (e.g. Day, Rochell) with great scheme versatility that will allow BVG to mix-and-match along the DL to fit the game situation. Obviously Ishaq's absence changes Rochell's "utility" role, but it puts him on the field more which IMO is a GREAT thing, and I think he still ends up moving around a bit.

If we lose some guys to injury we could be in trouble, but as of right now I'm excited to see what this group can do.

Another really good post! Not two-gapping and playing an aggressive defense, as opposed to a passive one should help. Good rotations, which may cause heart palpitations from fans, may help stave off injuries promoted by fatigue. This is going to be the science in the spotlight, this year.

 

[Irish YJ]

BVG didn't need this extra challenge, but it will certainly be interesting to see it all unfold. I do believe it will make us better for 2015, but I want to see something this year.

 

[NDWorld247]

Here is one thing.

In '12 when Mathias Farley had his "best season." The popular thinking was that it was due to the fact that he was not "exposed."

When I watched the tapes, that year Kelvarie Russell received the same benefit.

In '13 Russell had a great second half against Rutgers in the Pinstripe Bowl, and some other outstanding play in the season. But he also had the Michigan game. And, ND still played a lot of zone last year. Maybe Russell is the second coming. But he is far from a proven commodity.

I really think that we should not treat Russell like he is guilty, before he is charged, and we should not treat him like an All-American before he gets a chance to play and prove it.

Is he the best we have had lately? Maybe. Likely. Is he irreplaceable. His own career shouts out that he isn't.

Why not? KVR was a freshman All-American and has been named to several Pre-Season All-American teams this year. While he hasn't proven it during a game (he hasn't had the chance) in a new system that extenuates his strengths and has drawn rave reviews from coaches and observers, everything we've heard and seen leads us to believe he's an All-American talent who erases WRs and is a leader of the position group/defense.

Is he irreplaceable? No, we have other players to step in and replace his snaps, but who among those players has shown what KVR has the past two seasons? Who has pushed him or come close to him in practice? He's proven enough in his career as a starting caliber CB from day one on campus, and potential 1st/2nd rd pick, that his absence changes the dynamic of the position group and the way BVG calls the game, which won't be easily replaced if it comes to that.

I agree it seems KVR receives more benefit of the doubt than Farley, but I think it's deserved as he's shown us more and drawing comparisons between the two is a stretch. Re: Farley, I'm hopeful, and think, he plays more like '12 than '13 in '14.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Why not? KVR was a freshman All-American and has been named to several Pre-Season All-American teams this year. While he hasn't proven it during a game (he hasn't had the chance) in a new system that extenuates his strengths and has drawn rave reviews from coaches and observers, everything we've heard and seen leads us to believe he's an All-American talent who erases WRs and is a leader of the position group/defense.

Is he irreplaceable? No, we have other players to step in and replace his snaps, but who among those players has shown what KVR has the past two seasons? Who has pushed him or come close to him in practice? He's proven enough in his career as a starting caliber CB from day one on campus, and potential 1st/2nd rd pick, that his absence changes the dynamic of the position group and the way BVG calls the game, which won't be easily replaced if it comes to that.

I agree it seems KVR receives more benefit of the doubt than Farley, but I think it's deserved as he's shown us more and drawing comparisons between the two is a stretch. Re: Farley, I'm hopeful, and think, he plays more like '12 than '13 in '14.

I agree with everything you say.

My comments are rarely addressed to the more centered posters. What I was trying to do was address the sky is falling posters. Sure KVR is the hardest of the players to replace. But tomorrow, ND will do just that. They will field Cole Luke, who is further ahead of where KVR was in '12!

 

[jimmymac]

Honestly, you dont deserve to call yourself a ND fan after this post. Absolute disgrace.

He's an definite leader, and I can speak from first hand experience. He is one of the best people I have met while on campus.

Can't wait for him to have a great year this year (he will be playing a lot), and shove it right in your face. But then you'll have to go find another student athlete and say they suck, a shitty leader.

Not to toot my own horn, but... (about Farley, I was replying to a post trashing him)

 

[Rocknes Ghost]

Not to toot my own horn, but... (about Farley, I was replying to a post trashing him)

It's a fair toot. I posted in the Farley thread, but frankly he is playing better than I thought he had in him and its time to eat some crow. I still have difficulty getting over his play in the Stanford game, but I hope matthias keeps it up.

The crow is so tasty...

 

[Irish YJ]

Wasn't sure where to put a couple notes, but so trying here.

Looking at Rivals updated depth chart (I know, not always the most accurate...)

1. Sanders now listed on both KR and PR
2. Chris Finke (FR, I think PWO or just WO, no profile), now listed in PR as well.
3. ESB now listed as #2 behind Fuller. Holmes #3.
4. Aliz'e now number #2 TE

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Maybe rename this Depth Chart Predictions, or replace 14 with 15?

I think it would be nice to keep past years predictions handy, don't you?

 

[koonja]

Maybe rename this Depth Chart Predictions, or replace 14 with 15?

I think it would be nice to keep past years predictions handy, don't you?

Bogs I love your energy!

 

[Irish YJ]

Maybe rename this Depth Chart Predictions, or replace 14 with 15?

I think it would be nice to keep past years predictions handy, don't you?

yippers