10 Must Do List for 2008!!!!

jonesman

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I posted this info before but made a couple changes and added number 10. Since the season is completely over, CW is now working on 2008 which makes this relavant. Further, since we have seen the door given to about half the college coaches these last few days, Charlie better know that in 2008 there will be no air conditioning in the kitchen. His Super Bowl rings, two BCS appearances, offensive genius and transformation of Brady Quinn are all OLD news that not a sole cares about anymore. For 2008, he will be on that list of coaches on the hot seat. The nation is not expecting him to win the national title in 2008, but he better demonstrate major improvement and a better grasp of developing college players. What many will be pointing to is the fact that NFL coaches continue to fail at a high rate in college. Callahan, Galey, Wandstadt. The Poodle is about the only one to show lasting success and I believe much of his has been purely the freaky good talent he brings to USC and his kid like persona. CHUCK, WE ARE ROOTING FOR YOU AND PRAYING FOR YOUR SUCCESS IN 2008, DO NOT LET US DOWN!!!!!!!!!!


1. Win 9 Regular Season Games - This is important because we must show the rebuilding is almost complete and ND again is winning the games that they should. I will tolerate 8 wins if the losses are close.
Reasons This IS Achievable>>
SCHEDULE: If you look at the 2008 schedule, it has been softened and there are only two teams on the schedule where we will be underdogs. Maybe two that we will be a pick um. W's -(San Diego, Pit, Navy, Syracuse, Stanford, N. Carolina, Washington, Purdue), Pick-ums(MSU, BC), L's(USC, UM). As for the W's, these are all programs that should never beat ND. I know that Carolina and Stanford are on a bit of an upswing with new coaches, but if those guys can get there programs to a level higher than ND in two years CW is in trouble. BC loses many many starters, so they should drop a notch. USC will be loaded as usual, but UM loses Henne and Hart which will be huge. 8-4 can be excepted IF these are very very competitive losses or due to significant injuries. 7-5 or worse will signal the end.
ROSTER: We are going to be returning almost complete starting line-ups. On offense, we will have 2 QB's with extensive playing time. The RB's and FB's return as a whole and at RB we will have the more depth and talent than the last 10 years. The OL will be all upper classmen and all have started at a minimum a full season. The back ups will be talented and big. At TE we lose a talented Carlson, but we return Yeatman who is a great blocker, Ragone who will stretch the field and bring in the number 1 rated freshman. WR will have both speed, size and experience. With Parris, Tate, Kamara, Grimes, West, Hord and whatever talented freshman comes aboard, the cupboard is FULL. On Defense, we basically lose two starters. Laws who will be a big loss and Zibby who will be replaced by a bevy of talent. The safety position is freakin loaded. Bruton will be the leader. McCarthy, Harrison Smith, Gaines and the incoming class will have ND the envy of many because of our talent level here. At CB, we will be able to line up with any receiving corp around. Walls, McNeil, Gray, Prince, and Lambert if he decides to return will be rock solid. OLB is a position on the rise. With Neal and Smith having a year to grow and get stronger, they should dominate. Ryan and Mo Richardson will give us a change of pace and depth. Add in Fleming and wow were deep. ILB will probably still be anchored by Mo Crum and Toryan Smith, however guys like Paskorz, Filer and McDonald will all be providing depth and talent. DL will have the only major hole to fill, Laws. Kuntz will be bigger, stronger and more at home at DE. Brown, Hand will hold down the other DE with support from Ethan Johson and Cwynar. NG will be anchored by Ian, but he will loads of help from Omar, Newman, Hafis. Special Teams finally should be an asset. We have a good FG kicker in Walker. Whitacker has shown good ability on KO's. Maust was good while substituting for Price. We have very capable return people.

2. Beat WASHINGTON - He better not lose to Ty after 4 years of rebuilding ND or the media and anti ND folks will go crazy with the CW is worse than Ty biz.
Reason this is achievable>> We have a better level of talent at ND. If you look at both rosters, there are far more 4 and 5 star athletes on ND's roster. Further, if CW cannot out coach Ty next season, the Mark May's of the world will have his head on a platter.

3. No More One Sided Losses - One sided losses tend to put CW in the bucket of Ty and Davie. Lou never got slaughtered like we are making a regular habit of. Even when Brady was here, we received beatdowns from OSU, LSU, UM, USC.
Reasons this is achievable>> For the first couple years that CW was at ND the excuse in the big losses was that ND did not have the speed and talent to stay with the programs like LSU, OSU, USC. Well, there is only ONE program on our regular season schedule that will have us out manned, USC. But, the talent gap between ND and USC will have closed dramatically. Further, if CW is the offensive guru he claims, then after 4 years with these kids that should shine thru.

4. Go Bowling and WIN!!!! - Every ND fan is tired of hearing that we are 0-forever since our last bowl win. Furhter, CW has gotten thumped in both bowls.
Reason this is achievable>> We should finish the season with 3-4 losses which means no BCS. That is good because we are a year away from whooping the LSU's, Florida's and OSU's of the world. We will end up in a second tier bowl like the Gator. This will pit us against a mid level program which we better start dominating. I actually hope we do NOT end up winning enough to get into a BCS because we tend to get a bad match-up which spells disaster. I want us to wait until 2009 when we will be loaded and be able to dominate. ND cannot afford another BCS debacle where we lose and get battered by the media.

5. Make Coaching Changes over 2008 winter!!!! - Einstein says the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. Latina, BYE BYE
Reason this is achievable>> Well this decision is in CW's hands. It is obvious that certain positions are underachieving. OL and special teams are two in particular. We cannot stand pat with underperformers. CW has shown the moxy to make changes in the past, so I think this one is easy.

6. Close out 2008 Recruiting Class!!!! We have the number 1 ranked class and are a fav with several remaining prospects.
Reason this is achievable>> He already has 21 super commits. He only has to add a few pieces at WR and OL. I am not even going to hold him accountable if we have another Little incident in this class. Recruiting is soo crazy that I expect someone to de-commit just to make it a typical recruiting season. But, CW must also close on atleast two of our WR prospects and one great OL player to make this class complete. Everything else is just icing on the cake.

7. Top 10 Recruiting Class for 2009!!!!!!! CW will have his hands full filling this class since there is no great season to talk about and kids will see a depth chart filled with youth.
Reason this is achievable>>> Kids should be really excited now that talent has returned to ND. Further, CW has demonstrated that he will play the best play regardless of age. Finally, he will not have to add huge numbers so he should be able to fill the smaller number of spots. This will mean we will not be number one in recruiting, but if we are getting top caliber athletes to fill out holes that is what matters.

8. Demonstrate Player Development!!! In 2005 I think we all thought that CW could elevate players. In 2006 the players did not take the next step. In fact, most would argue that some players level slipped. OL play got worse. In 2007, the play has been very dissapointing. Not just inexperience, but mistake ridden.
Reason this is achievable>>> With about 9-10 starters returning on both sides of the ball, improvement should be very evident. Further, many of these kids have spent atleast 3 years in the program.

9. Show me "NASTY"!!!! Part of showing Nasty is playing hard for your coach and bringing enthusiasm to the field. You have to want to play hard for the coach. There have been some games where the kids absolutely did NOT play for CW this season.
Reason this is achievable>>> When a player is comforable in a system, they can fly around the field and play with aggression. Brown is starting to show that with the D. They are starting to get comfortable which is resulting in aggression. Now, CW must show that his O can do the same. Especially the OL which should be at a point of dominating people next season.

10. Demonstrate Flexibility!!! Charlie needs to show that he is learning how to coach college kids and learning the college game, not just trying to bring the NFL to South Bend.
Reason this is achievable>>>> He has seen that his NFL way got them into big trouble this season. His soft contact practices, complicated schemes cost them this season.
 

jonesman

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Do you remember this many lopsided losses by Lou???? I think not. We have been soundly beaten in both bowls. We have taken 2 straight beatdowns by both UM and USC. We also have taken beatdowns by teams like Purdue, MSU and PSU.
 
M

Moostache

Guest
The margin of defeat is sometimes misleading...

Take the 2005 Fiesta Bowl loss....34-20....2 TD loss, yet for as bad as ND played in that game, the score was still just 27-20 with a couple minutes and change to play before Smith made the plays on consecutive 3rd downs and then Pittman broke the long TD run to seal it.

THAT "beat-down" is markedly different than the 2006 USC game where we entered as #6 (10-1) against #3 USC (9-1) looking to avenge the Bush Push and stamp our season as a success regardless of bowl outcome...well, didn't go so well....down 28-10 after pissing away chances in the first half...eventually "closed" to within 37-24 under 2 minutes and then gave up a TD return on an onside kick to lose 44-24.

Many ND fans talk about those two games as if they were equal beatings....they were not. In the Fiesta Bowl, there was a plausible chance that a turnover COULD have tied the game or even given ND a chance to win it with a 2-point conversion...in the SC game, the only thing we could have hoped for was not just one but TWO successful onside kicks, TWO TD drives and TWO conversions to win the game...obviously a much different beast.

Take a couple of 2007's "beatdowns" as well....Say 33-19 to Purdue....well, that is one of the losses that stings the most to me this year simply because it was there for the taking in an epic comeback fashion. I believe that with Brady Quinn (or a similarly experienced QB) at the helm in the second half of that game that ND WOULD have overcome the 23-3 halftime deficeit to win it. At any rate, it did not happen and many people look at the margin of defeat only and assume that ND was blown out the entire game by Purdue - which is not true because every Purdue fan I know (my dad is a class of '66 PU alum and I have many friends from PU classes cira '92-'94) has since admitted they were scared shitless that at 26-19 ND would actually get the ball back and win the game 27-26.

By contrast to the Purdue game, take PSU or MSU from 2007. The offensive futility in those games made it seem like a 14 point lead was really a 140-point lead. By teh early 4th quarter of either game you could see the result getting only one thing the rest of the way...WORSE.

The differences in score differential between Purdue 2007 (-14), OSU 2005 (-14) MSU 2007 (-17), USC 2006 (-20) and PSU 2007 (-21) are fairly close in terms of scores needed to tie or have a chance to win (PU/OSU were 2-score games; USC, PSU and MSU were 3-score games), but if you look at each game closer you can see that 14 point losses look a whole lot different than 17 points.

*also meaningless is the opponent's "rank" at the time of the game...for instance right now would ANYONE take BC over USC on any field? BC's ranking at the time of the ND game was #2! USC at kickoff was #13! No way if that an accurate reflection of reality now....a lot of talk has been tossed around about Weis not beating "top teams"....well, if you mean top teams in year end bowl games (the only ranking that matters really), then no, he has not yet beaten those teams....but overall talk of records versus top-25 is a meaningless stat among many....
 
S

solo

Guest
Nice post. But this:



... is not true: Her Loyal Sons » What Does It Mean To Be “Competitive?”. Holtz lost his fair share of games by 2 TD+ margins.

ND has lost by 17+ points 102 times. Weis has 10 of those. Holtz has 9 of those (but over 11 years).

ND has lost by 21 points 60 times. Holtz 3, Weis 6

ND has lost by 25+ points 39 times. Holtz 1 Weis 5

Weis is losing big at an alarming rate whereas Holtz's big losses were at a much more normal rate. I think that was the point of the original posters statement.
 
S

solo

Guest
I posted this info before but made a couple changes and added number 10. Since the season is completely over, CW is now working on 2008 which makes this relavant. Further, since we have seen the door given to about half the college coaches these last few days, Charlie better know that in 2008 there will be no air conditioning in the kitchen. His Super Bowl rings, two BCS appearances, offensive genius and transformation of Brady Quinn are all OLD news that not a sole cares about anymore. For 2008, he will be on that list of coaches on the hot seat. The nation is not expecting him to win the national title in 2008, but he better demonstrate major improvement and a better grasp of developing college players. What many will be pointing to is the fact that NFL coaches continue to fail at a high rate in college. Callahan, Galey, Wandstadt. The Poodle is about the only one to show lasting success and I believe much of his has been purely the freaky good talent he brings to USC and his kid like persona. CHUCK, WE ARE ROOTING FOR YOU AND PRAYING FOR YOUR SUCCESS IN 2008, DO NOT LET US DOWN!!!!!!!!!!


1. Win 9 Regular Season Games - This is important because we must show the rebuilding is almost complete and ND again is winning the games that they should. I will tolerate 8 wins if the losses are close.
Reasons This IS Achievable>>
SCHEDULE: If you look at the 2008 schedule, it has been softened and there are only two teams on the schedule where we will be underdogs. Maybe two that we will be a pick um. W's -(San Diego, Pit, Navy, Syracuse, Stanford, N. Carolina, Washington, Purdue), Pick-ums(MSU, BC), L's(USC, UM). As for the W's, these are all programs that should never beat ND. I know that Carolina and Stanford are on a bit of an upswing with new coaches, but if those guys can get there programs to a level higher than ND in two years CW is in trouble. BC loses many many starters, so they should drop a notch. USC will be loaded as usual, but UM loses Henne and Hart which will be huge. 8-4 can be excepted IF these are very very competitive losses or due to significant injuries. 7-5 or worse will signal the end.
ROSTER: We are going to be returning almost complete starting line-ups. On offense, we will have 2 QB's with extensive playing time. The RB's and FB's return as a whole and at RB we will have the more depth and talent than the last 10 years. The OL will be all upper classmen and all have started at a minimum a full season. The back ups will be talented and big. At TE we lose a talented Carlson, but we return Yeatman who is a great blocker, Ragone who will stretch the field and bring in the number 1 rated freshman. WR will have both speed, size and experience. With Parris, Tate, Kamara, Grimes, West, Hord and whatever talented freshman comes aboard, the cupboard is FULL. On Defense, we basically lose two starters. Laws who will be a big loss and Zibby who will be replaced by a bevy of talent. The safety position is freakin loaded. Bruton will be the leader. McCarthy, Harrison Smith, Gaines and the incoming class will have ND the envy of many because of our talent level here. At CB, we will be able to line up with any receiving corp around. Walls, McNeil, Gray, Prince, and Lambert if he decides to return will be rock solid. OLB is a position on the rise. With Neal and Smith having a year to grow and get stronger, they should dominate. Ryan and Mo Richardson will give us a change of pace and depth. Add in Fleming and wow were deep. ILB will probably still be anchored by Mo Crum and Toryan Smith, however guys like Paskorz, Filer and McDonald will all be providing depth and talent. DL will have the only major hole to fill, Laws. Kuntz will be bigger, stronger and more at home at DE. Brown, Hand will hold down the other DE with support from Ethan Johson and Cwynar. NG will be anchored by Ian, but he will loads of help from Omar, Newman, Hafis. Special Teams finally should be an asset. We have a good FG kicker in Walker. Whitacker has shown good ability on KO's. Maust was good while substituting for Price. We have very capable return people.

2. Beat WASHINGTON - He better not lose to Ty after 4 years of rebuilding ND or the media and anti ND folks will go crazy with the CW is worse than Ty biz.
Reason this is achievable>> We have a better level of talent at ND. If you look at both rosters, there are far more 4 and 5 star athletes on ND's roster. Further, if CW cannot out coach Ty next season, the Mark May's of the world will have his head on a platter.

3. No More One Sided Losses - One sided losses tend to put CW in the bucket of Ty and Davie. Lou never got slaughtered like we are making a regular habit of. Even when Brady was here, we received beatdowns from OSU, LSU, UM, USC.
Reasons this is achievable>> For the first couple years that CW was at ND the excuse in the big losses was that ND did not have the speed and talent to stay with the programs like LSU, OSU, USC. Well, there is only ONE program on our regular season schedule that will have us out manned, USC. But, the talent gap between ND and USC will have closed dramatically. Further, if CW is the offensive guru he claims, then after 4 years with these kids that should shine thru.

4. Go Bowling and WIN!!!! - Every ND fan is tired of hearing that we are 0-forever since our last bowl win. Furhter, CW has gotten thumped in both bowls.
Reason this is achievable>> We should finish the season with 3-4 losses which means no BCS. That is good because we are a year away from whooping the LSU's, Florida's and OSU's of the world. We will end up in a second tier bowl like the Gator. This will pit us against a mid level program which we better start dominating. I actually hope we do NOT end up winning enough to get into a BCS because we tend to get a bad match-up which spells disaster. I want us to wait until 2009 when we will be loaded and be able to dominate. ND cannot afford another BCS debacle where we lose and get battered by the media.

5. Make Coaching Changes over 2008 winter!!!! - Einstein says the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. Latina, BYE BYE
Reason this is achievable>> Well this decision is in CW's hands. It is obvious that certain positions are underachieving. OL and special teams are two in particular. We cannot stand pat with underperformers. CW has shown the moxy to make changes in the past, so I think this one is easy.

6. Close out 2008 Recruiting Class!!!! We have the number 1 ranked class and are a fav with several remaining prospects.
Reason this is achievable>> He already has 21 super commits. He only has to add a few pieces at WR and OL. I am not even going to hold him accountable if we have another Little incident in this class. Recruiting is soo crazy that I expect someone to de-commit just to make it a typical recruiting season. But, CW must also close on atleast two of our WR prospects and one great OL player to make this class complete. Everything else is just icing on the cake.

7. Top 10 Recruiting Class for 2009!!!!!!! CW will have his hands full filling this class since there is no great season to talk about and kids will see a depth chart filled with youth.
Reason this is achievable>>> Kids should be really excited now that talent has returned to ND. Further, CW has demonstrated that he will play the best play regardless of age. Finally, he will not have to add huge numbers so he should be able to fill the smaller number of spots. This will mean we will not be number one in recruiting, but if we are getting top caliber athletes to fill out holes that is what matters.

8. Demonstrate Player Development!!! In 2005 I think we all thought that CW could elevate players. In 2006 the players did not take the next step. In fact, most would argue that some players level slipped. OL play got worse. In 2007, the play has been very dissapointing. Not just inexperience, but mistake ridden.
Reason this is achievable>>> With about 9-10 starters returning on both sides of the ball, improvement should be very evident. Further, many of these kids have spent atleast 3 years in the program.

9. Show me "NASTY"!!!! Part of showing Nasty is playing hard for your coach and bringing enthusiasm to the field. You have to want to play hard for the coach. There have been some games where the kids absolutely did NOT play for CW this season.
Reason this is achievable>>> When a player is comforable in a system, they can fly around the field and play with aggression. Brown is starting to show that with the D. They are starting to get comfortable which is resulting in aggression. Now, CW must show that his O can do the same. Especially the OL which should be at a point of dominating people next season.

10. Demonstrate Flexibility!!! Charlie needs to show that he is learning how to coach college kids and learning the college game, not just trying to bring the NFL to South Bend.
Reason this is achievable>>>> He has seen that his NFL way got them into big trouble this season. His soft contact practices, complicated schemes cost them this season.

GREAT POST. I agree 100%
 

GoshenGipper

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I posted this info before but made a couple changes and added number 10. Since the season is completely over, CW is now working on 2008 which makes this relavant. Further, since we have seen the door given to about half the college coaches these last few days, Charlie better know that in 2008 there will be no air conditioning in the kitchen. His Super Bowl rings, two BCS appearances, offensive genius and transformation of Brady Quinn are all OLD news that not a sole cares about anymore. For 2008, he will be on that list of coaches on the hot seat. The nation is not expecting him to win the national title in 2008, but he better demonstrate major improvement and a better grasp of developing college players. What many will be pointing to is the fact that NFL coaches continue to fail at a high rate in college. Callahan, Galey, Wandstadt. The Poodle is about the only one to show lasting success and I believe much of his has been purely the freaky good talent he brings to USC and his kid like persona. CHUCK, WE ARE ROOTING FOR YOU AND PRAYING FOR YOUR SUCCESS IN 2008, DO NOT LET US DOWN!!!!!!!!!!


1. Win 9 Regular Season Games - This is important because we must show the rebuilding is almost complete and ND again is winning the games that they should. I will tolerate 8 wins if the losses are close.
Reasons This IS Achievable>>
SCHEDULE: If you look at the 2008 schedule, it has been softened and there are only two teams on the schedule where we will be underdogs. Maybe two that we will be a pick um. W's -(San Diego, Pit, Navy, Syracuse, Stanford, N. Carolina, Washington, Purdue), Pick-ums(MSU, BC), L's(USC, UM). As for the W's, these are all programs that should never beat ND. I know that Carolina and Stanford are on a bit of an upswing with new coaches, but if those guys can get there programs to a level higher than ND in two years CW is in trouble. BC loses many many starters, so they should drop a notch. USC will be loaded as usual, but UM loses Henne and Hart which will be huge. 8-4 can be excepted IF these are very very competitive losses or due to significant injuries. 7-5 or worse will signal the end.
ROSTER: We are going to be returning almost complete starting line-ups. On offense, we will have 2 QB's with extensive playing time. The RB's and FB's return as a whole and at RB we will have the more depth and talent than the last 10 years. The OL will be all upper classmen and all have started at a minimum a full season. The back ups will be talented and big. At TE we lose a talented Carlson, but we return Yeatman who is a great blocker, Ragone who will stretch the field and bring in the number 1 rated freshman. WR will have both speed, size and experience. With Parris, Tate, Kamara, Grimes, West, Hord and whatever talented freshman comes aboard, the cupboard is FULL. On Defense, we basically lose two starters. Laws who will be a big loss and Zibby who will be replaced by a bevy of talent. The safety position is freakin loaded. Bruton will be the leader. McCarthy, Harrison Smith, Gaines and the incoming class will have ND the envy of many because of our talent level here. At CB, we will be able to line up with any receiving corp around. Walls, McNeil, Gray, Prince, and Lambert if he decides to return will be rock solid. OLB is a position on the rise. With Neal and Smith having a year to grow and get stronger, they should dominate. Ryan and Mo Richardson will give us a change of pace and depth. Add in Fleming and wow were deep. ILB will probably still be anchored by Mo Crum and Toryan Smith, however guys like Paskorz, Filer and McDonald will all be providing depth and talent. DL will have the only major hole to fill, Laws. Kuntz will be bigger, stronger and more at home at DE. Brown, Hand will hold down the other DE with support from Ethan Johson and Cwynar. NG will be anchored by Ian, but he will loads of help from Omar, Newman, Hafis. Special Teams finally should be an asset. We have a good FG kicker in Walker. Whitacker has shown good ability on KO's. Maust was good while substituting for Price. We have very capable return people.

2. Beat WASHINGTON - He better not lose to Ty after 4 years of rebuilding ND or the media and anti ND folks will go crazy with the CW is worse than Ty biz.
Reason this is achievable>> We have a better level of talent at ND. If you look at both rosters, there are far more 4 and 5 star athletes on ND's roster. Further, if CW cannot out coach Ty next season, the Mark May's of the world will have his head on a platter.

3. No More One Sided Losses - One sided losses tend to put CW in the bucket of Ty and Davie. Lou never got slaughtered like we are making a regular habit of. Even when Brady was here, we received beatdowns from OSU, LSU, UM, USC.
Reasons this is achievable>> For the first couple years that CW was at ND the excuse in the big losses was that ND did not have the speed and talent to stay with the programs like LSU, OSU, USC. Well, there is only ONE program on our regular season schedule that will have us out manned, USC. But, the talent gap between ND and USC will have closed dramatically. Further, if CW is the offensive guru he claims, then after 4 years with these kids that should shine thru.

4. Go Bowling and WIN!!!! - Every ND fan is tired of hearing that we are 0-forever since our last bowl win. Furhter, CW has gotten thumped in both bowls.
Reason this is achievable>> We should finish the season with 3-4 losses which means no BCS. That is good because we are a year away from whooping the LSU's, Florida's and OSU's of the world. We will end up in a second tier bowl like the Gator. This will pit us against a mid level program which we better start dominating. I actually hope we do NOT end up winning enough to get into a BCS because we tend to get a bad match-up which spells disaster. I want us to wait until 2009 when we will be loaded and be able to dominate. ND cannot afford another BCS debacle where we lose and get battered by the media.

5. Make Coaching Changes over 2008 winter!!!! - Einstein says the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. Latina, BYE BYE
Reason this is achievable>> Well this decision is in CW's hands. It is obvious that certain positions are underachieving. OL and special teams are two in particular. We cannot stand pat with underperformers. CW has shown the moxy to make changes in the past, so I think this one is easy.

6. Close out 2008 Recruiting Class!!!! We have the number 1 ranked class and are a fav with several remaining prospects.
Reason this is achievable>> He already has 21 super commits. He only has to add a few pieces at WR and OL. I am not even going to hold him accountable if we have another Little incident in this class. Recruiting is soo crazy that I expect someone to de-commit just to make it a typical recruiting season. But, CW must also close on atleast two of our WR prospects and one great OL player to make this class complete. Everything else is just icing on the cake.

7. Top 10 Recruiting Class for 2009!!!!!!! CW will have his hands full filling this class since there is no great season to talk about and kids will see a depth chart filled with youth.
Reason this is achievable>>> Kids should be really excited now that talent has returned to ND. Further, CW has demonstrated that he will play the best play regardless of age. Finally, he will not have to add huge numbers so he should be able to fill the smaller number of spots. This will mean we will not be number one in recruiting, but if we are getting top caliber athletes to fill out holes that is what matters.

8. Demonstrate Player Development!!! In 2005 I think we all thought that CW could elevate players. In 2006 the players did not take the next step. In fact, most would argue that some players level slipped. OL play got worse. In 2007, the play has been very dissapointing. Not just inexperience, but mistake ridden.
Reason this is achievable>>> With about 9-10 starters returning on both sides of the ball, improvement should be very evident. Further, many of these kids have spent atleast 3 years in the program.

9. Show me "NASTY"!!!! Part of showing Nasty is playing hard for your coach and bringing enthusiasm to the field. You have to want to play hard for the coach. There have been some games where the kids absolutely did NOT play for CW this season.
Reason this is achievable>>> When a player is comforable in a system, they can fly around the field and play with aggression. Brown is starting to show that with the D. They are starting to get comfortable which is resulting in aggression. Now, CW must show that his O can do the same. Especially the OL which should be at a point of dominating people next season.

10. Demonstrate Flexibility!!! Charlie needs to show that he is learning how to coach college kids and learning the college game, not just trying to bring the NFL to South Bend.
Reason this is achievable>>>> He has seen that his NFL way got them into big trouble this season. His soft contact practices, complicated schemes cost them this season.


While you do have some good points I still think that you need to be more patient. Don't you think it's a little ridiculous to be rattling off all these demands that CW must accomplish next year or else you're going to speak for all Irish fans and demand that he be gone at the end of next year. The season's only been over for two days, don't you think it would be smarter to at least wait untill spring practice is done, or better yet fall camp or after the first game or two? One last thing, you have to tone it down with all the excessive exclamation marks that you include in every thread title and post. We understand that you are really passionate about the point you are trying to make, but it's actually starting to get a little annoying to look at. I'm not saying you are one, because I don't think you are, but it can at times make you come off as an immature teenager.
 

BestBIrish47

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Good posts all around in this thread. I do have an issue with the point comparison in the losses. Lou was for the most part, a conservative coach offensively and defensively. We all remember the bend but don't break of the early 90s. Charlie will take chances, much more than any coach in college football. So if we are down by 10, and he goes for it on 4th and 7 from our 30 late in the game we can't hold that against him. If we convert and score on that drive, it is a 3 pt game, if we don't and they get a garbage td we lose by 17. I would rather we stay aggressive and try to win instead of not to lose by a large margin. I think we all agree that this year, many of our games were decided by the 4th qtr. Charlie stayed aggressive to try to find what would work. With a young team, why not ..that game is decided and aggressive play will develope a never give up culture. Please, don't let us Irish fans start taking pride in close losses. A win is a win no matter if it is by 50 or 5. This is Notre Dame, we should win most of the games we play including USC, scUM, LSU whatever. We are a loyal fan base, but we should expect more.
 
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johnnd05

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ND has lost by 17+ points 102 times. Weis has 10 of those. Holtz has 9 of those (but over 11 years).

ND has lost by 21 points 60 times. Holtz 3, Weis 6

ND has lost by 25+ points 39 times. Holtz 1 Weis 5

Weis is losing big at an alarming rate whereas Holtz's big losses were at a much more normal rate. I think that was the point of the original posters statement.

The complaint about getting "blown out" is one that was around for a LONG time before this year. OF COURSE the results in 2007 were unacceptable - but what the original post said was that "Even when Brady was here, we received beatdowns from OSU, LSU, UM, USC." As has been said, the OSU loss was not really a blowout, but even so, that's four losses by 2+ TD's in two years, all of them to teams with lots more talent on the field than ND (and all of them largely attributable to the defense). If ND gets beat badly a couple of times next year, then people have to be willing to see that that's just how it goes sometimes.
 

jonesman

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Goshen,
Do you think that these are really things that a 4th year coach should not achieve. Tell me which of these ten are so tough if the program is going the right direction??? All these are signs of a program going the right direction. It is not as if I am asking for undefeated and a national title. I am asking for Notre Dame to back among the relavent in college football. That means we should be winning 8-9 regular season games, being competitive among the best teams on our schedule, continue solid recruiting, beat the coach you replaced, show the nasty you promised 4 years ago, show that all your genius can translate to player development and finally go win a bowl game. Not even a BCS game, it can be the Bluebonnet Chick-Fil-A.com bowl. None of this is unreasonable in any way. If you look around at the number of guys unemployed today, you will see the patience level of many college programs. Remember that Charlie himself said, "if I can't win a National Title in 5 years, then I should be fired." Well, if he is gonna live by that quote, 2008 cannot be a 6-6 lumpy year. We will need to demonstrate growth and development.
 

piyachi

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Jonesman - The one issue I disagree with you about is the media. Who gives a damn what they say, especially idiots like Mark May. If someone were to take up judging you at your job would it matter to you what they said?

No coaches listen to that crap and I doubt any of the players do either. It doesn't matter what some idiot at ESPiN is getting paid to spew, it won't mean anything to this team or their performance. So no it doesn't matter about silencing any critics.

I think Purdon't may still be a tough game to win - they lose their QB (I think) but they aren't bad on both sides of the ball and can win a shootout if you let them hang in there. I also am not sure that scUM will be nearly as tough as USuCk next year. I think that is a tossup game now that their offensive production goes out the window with: coaching change, losing Hart, Henne, Manningham (presumably), Arrington, and Long.

I too would like to see them win a bowl, although you could always get someone in BCS that is more of a paper tiger. Frankly I just want to see a bowl win since I was 7 when they last won one and I don't even remember anything that long ago.

Oh and lose all the exclamation points!!!!!!1!!1!!1!!! :)
 

GoshenGipper

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Goshen,
Do you think that these are really things that a 4th year coach should not achieve. Tell me which of these ten are so tough if the program is going the right direction??? All these are signs of a program going the right direction. It is not as if I am asking for undefeated and a national title. I am asking for Notre Dame to back among the relavent in college football. That means we should be winning 8-9 regular season games, being competitive among the best teams on our schedule, continue solid recruiting, beat the coach you replaced, show the nasty you promised 4 years ago, show that all your genius can translate to player development and finally go win a bowl game. Not even a BCS game, it can be the Bluebonnet Chick-Fil-A.com bowl. None of this is unreasonable in any way. If you look around at the number of guys unemployed today, you will see the patience level of many college programs. Remember that Charlie himself said, "if I can't win a National Title in 5 years, then I should be fired." Well, if he is gonna live by that quote, 2008 cannot be a 6-6 lumpy year. We will need to demonstrate growth and development.

No, not all of them anyway. That's why I said you had some good points, but you're already putting win totals on him like 9 or at the very least 8 games. remeber that this team just went 3-9, so 7 wins would be a four game turnaround and it would be a good start. Not that I wouldn't hope for more, but it's not like I'm going to want him out if he wins 7 instead of 9. As for the bowl game we all know that everyone wants to win one, but ND is going to get the best possible bowl for their record just like always, so it's going to be really hard to win one untill the team is playing at an elite level. I'm just sayin that it's till a year away, and we haven't even made it to NSD, let alone spring ball, fall camp or even a game or two. Blowouts will ocassionally happen and with ND's front loaded schedule they are more susceptible to them, so it's not like we should want him out if he has a good season, but there was one blowout loss or something. I'm just saying the smart thing to do is be patient. I don't care if everyone else is or not, we're not everyone else. We are ND, and I still give him plenty of credit for what he did the first two years. I'm not to quick to forget what it was like under Ty and Davie.
 

Junkhead

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I can see how we need to be patient with the current roster, with nearly no upperclassmen. At the same time, its hard to be patient when the program hasn't won a bowl game in 13 years. We are tired of patience. Next year MUST begin the upswing, and I'm confident it will.
 

LOVEMYIRISH

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1. Win 9 Regular Season Games - This is important because we must show the rebuilding is almost complete and ND again is winning the games that they should. I will tolerate 8 wins if the losses are close.

Tolerate 8?

You are in for a long ass year next year...you are going to be mega-unhappy I suspect.
 

kjones

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I just think after the massive letdown of this season, people would be a little more gun-shy of making very optimistic predictions. That being said, i fully expect to win 9 games and a bowl game to boot. But then, I'm a crazy man! :krazy:

Go Irish!
 
S

solo

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Good posts all around in this thread. I do have an issue with the point comparison in the losses. Lou was for the most part, a conservative coach offensively and defensively. We all remember the bend but don't break of the early 90s. Charlie will take chances, much more than any coach in college football. So if we are down by 10, and he goes for it on 4th and 7 from our 30 late in the game we can't hold that against him. If we convert and score on that drive, it is a 3 pt game, if we don't and they get a garbage td we lose by 17. I would rather we stay aggressive and try to win instead of not to lose by a large margin. I think we all agree that this year, many of our games were decided by the 4th qtr. Charlie stayed aggressive to try to find what would work. With a young team, why not ..that game is decided and aggressive play will develope a never give up culture. Please, don't let us Irish fans start taking pride in close losses. A win is a win no matter if it is by 50 or 5. This is Notre Dame, we should win most of the games we play including USC, scUM, LSU whatever. We are a loyal fan base, but we should expect more.

I hope that Charlie's aggressive nature has been because we have been outmanned and not because he simply has a gunslinger mentality. There is a reason why most coaches punt on 4th down. There is a reason why many coaches are conservative by nature. It's called playing for field position. It's usually better to punt and play defense rather than to take a big risk. I am hoping that once we have a good defense that can shut the other team down and get the ball back, Weis will start calling games like a normal coach rather than a desparate coach.
 

jonesman

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Guys,
I was not meaning to come off as the ogre with no patience, but we are going into the Fourth year with CW and at ND we should have expectations of returning to excellence. This list are things he should be doing to demonstrate that. As for the most defining one of all, 8-9 win season I did not just pick a number. I looked at our schedule, what the opponents rosters will most likely look like, when and where we play the games and who ND's roster will be. Here is my thinking.
San Diego St. - There is no way on earth we better lose that game at home to this team. They are 4-7 this season and getting thumped by average teams. WIN
U of Mich. - I gave this one a loss, however I would not be suprised we pull of the win. They lose Hart, Henne, and Jake Long. Plus do not be suprised if Manningham leaves early for the NFL. LOSS
MSU - This game never makes sense, so I will give MSU the nod. However, they lose Caulqik who has killed us the last two seasons. LOSS
Purdue - They lose every offensive weapon. QB, both WRs, RB and TE. This game is at ND. No way we lose. We actually could have pulled it off this season. WIN
Stanford - We just watched that one. At home. We should have blown them out last week. WIN
UNC - They are improving, but there is no way that Davis should have that program ahead of ND in just two seasons vs. CW 4th season. WIN
Washington - Do we need to say much here. UW was 4-8, there recruiting has been Losingham and Ty better not outcoach us. WIN
Pitt - We have Wanny at home. Pitt is not anywhere close to ND in talent or coaching. WIN
BC - They lose there starting QB, RB and WR. Plus several OL. They were a hugely senior laden team this season and we still almost pulled it out. I will give folks a toss-up on this one even though I think we win solid. TOSS-UP
Navy - They got there one victory for the next 50 years. We will have way too much O and our D will be better. Plus I believe we can kick a FG or two. WIN
USC - Ouch. This one will hurt. USC will be loaded and playing for BCS. LOSS
 

jonesman

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I forgot Syracuse in the post above. We know what that one is. W!
Guys,
I was not meaning to come off as the ogre with no patience, but we are going into the Fourth year with CW and at ND we should have expectations of returning to excellence. This list are things he should be doing to demonstrate that. As for the most defining one of all, 8-9 win season I did not just pick a number. I looked at our schedule, what the opponents rosters will most likely look like, when and where we play the games and who ND's roster will be. Here is my thinking.
San Diego St. - There is no way on earth we better lose that game at home to this team. They are 4-7 this season and getting thumped by average teams. WIN
U of Mich. - I gave this one a loss, however I would not be suprised we pull of the win. They lose Hart, Henne, and Jake Long. Plus do not be suprised if Manningham leaves early for the NFL. LOSS
MSU - This game never makes sense, so I will give MSU the nod. However, they lose Caulqik who has killed us the last two seasons. LOSS
Purdue - They lose every offensive weapon. QB, both WRs, RB and TE. This game is at ND. No way we lose. We actually could have pulled it off this season. WIN
Stanford - We just watched that one. At home. We should have blown them out last week. WIN
UNC - They are improving, but there is no way that Davis should have that program ahead of ND in just two seasons vs. CW 4th season. WIN
Washington - Do we need to say much here. UW was 4-8, there recruiting has been Losingham and Ty better not outcoach us. WIN
Pitt - We have Wanny at home. Pitt is not anywhere close to ND in talent or coaching. WIN
BC - They lose there starting QB, RB and WR. Plus several OL. They were a hugely senior laden team this season and we still almost pulled it out. I will give folks a toss-up on this one even though I think we win solid. TOSS-UP
Syracuse - This should not be close. WIN
Navy - They got there one victory for the next 50 years. We will have way too much O and our D will be better. Plus I believe we can kick a FG or two. WIN
USC - Ouch. This one will hurt. USC will be loaded and playing for BCS. LOSS
 

irish4ever

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Good analysis, but I would change UoM from LOSS to TOSS-UP (playing at home and we lost the last 2 years ... little revenge factor). Plus, new coaching staff could impact their fluidness as a team.
Also, I would change MSU from a LOSS to TOSS-UP because ND finds ways to beat MSU on their home field.
My prediction would be 1 LOSS, 3 TOSS UPS and 8 WINS .... somewhere BETWEEN 8-4 and 11-1.
 

jonesman

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Irish,
I agree with you in regards to your thoughts. I was just pointing to how I got to a 8-9 win season and how 6-7 wins is not acceptable if this program is headed the right direction. So, if you really look at it, there is only 1 team where we would go in expecting a loss. 3 toss-ups which we should be able to win one of those. That gets us to 9 wins. Would we really be accepting of a loss to any of the 8 other teams where I predict wins. There is no way in CW's 4th year we should be losing to any of those team. GO IRISH!
 

piyachi

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scUM also loses Arrington who doesn't get the recognition of Manningham but is just as productive (I think). Our O may struggle a bit now that they are going to be returning a bunch of players on D but I really can't see their offense clicking at that point in the season with everyone they have to replace. I imagine they will look like ND 07 offense except with an actual OL. Winning this game would make me believe we are really starting something next season.

While factually all of those make sense we are still bound to have some inconsistency. I do see us ending up with at least 3 times the wins of this year but I wouldn't be surprised to see us win one we shouldn't and lose one we shouldn't as well.

Another side note - next year we really take a step down in terms of teams ability to score against us. Purdon't, scUM, and Fredo all lose very key pieces to their offense. We don't have AFA who put a bunch on us and we add SDS who we should dominate, UNC who I cannot imagine would be tough, Ty... 'nough said, and Syracuse. I want to see Corwin's D being the strength of our team next year because giving 30 points to teams like Purdon't is not going to be ok next year (hopefully the offense won't put them in bad positions again). Really the only team that has major offensive firepower next year is USuCk and I imagine with our backfield we can just try keepaway like '05 if we have a semblance of an OL by then.

Is USuCk our last game of the season? Because if it is I really like Weis odds to get everyone fired up - we will have plenty of layover between that game and a bowl so we wouldn't be risking a letdown.
 

jonesman

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SC is the last game. The order in which I analyzed them above is the order we play them. So you can see that we do not really have any murderers row like this years beginning. We start with SDS, this should be a confidence builder. Then we have UM at HOME. MSU at MSU, which could be a tough one. Purdue at home and all their offense gone, plus there DE which has given us fits for two seasons. Syracuse and Navy the two weeks prior to USC which should be easier games prior to USC who will be ranked in the Top 5.
 
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