Where is the sanity?

[NDFan4Life]

A single turnover is on the player. However, when the team continues fumbling and the QB keeps throwing interceptions, why isn't the coaching staff to blame for not fixing these chronic issues in practice, etc.?

Don't you think they tried to fix the problems? How many times did you see Kelly get in Rees' face for throwing into double coverage? Do you think Kelly forgot how to coach when he got to ND?

 

[DillonHall]

Don't you think they tried to fix the problems? How many times did you see Kelly get in Rees' face for throwing into double coverage? Do you think Kelly forgot how to coach when he got to ND?

No, he didn't forget. But who's to say that he was that a great of a coach before he got to ND?

 

[Rhode Irish]

I think the biggest thing that irk's me is, like I stated previously, its about creating a winning culture and recruits want to be part of a winning culture and having a chance to compete on the biggest stages with the chance at playing for a national championship. Right now, depsite all the talent, Notre Dame is still an underachieving culture that can not compete with the big boys in college football and it has been that way for a long time. I think a majority of recruits consider the state of the football program first with education coming in second. Why do you think in the end Gunner Kiel chose LSU over his home state Irish when it was widely rumored that he desired to play closer to home? It's entirely possible if Notre Dame wins a couple of those games they choked away, they would be playing in a BCS game and having a lot more pull with top recruits as a returning mega power on the rise. If you need proof look no further then what Michigan has done this year in recruiting on the heels of their season under Hoke. That program was dead in the water last year and now have a top 3 recruiting class. They capitalized on success while Notre Dame in typical fashion "fumbled" it away. I couldn't be more frustrated at the results of this season when it finally appeared that the stars were alligned to make a push back into the national spotlight. Now they enter next season with a more difficult schedule, a ton of question marks on the roster, and that underachieving stink still lingering over the program.

I do get where you're coming from, but I don't think Notre Dame is struggling with recruiting right now. They did miss on Kiel, but the class as a whole is very good. In fact, you compare it to Michigan, but their class is not better than ours on a per player basis. They're just "rated" higher because the rating system is based on accumulating points and our class is only a third the size of their class at this point. I don't mean to discredit Michigan's class - they needed a good one and they're getting one. But I don't believe Michigan's class is blowing ours out of the water. Our class is a top-10 class. That is two in a row. That is why I think some patience is in order. In a general sense, I'm with you on the importance of a "winning culture", but that ship hasn't sailed. Compared to 2 years ago I think we've made strides in that regard, although I agree we have a lot more work to do. I just favor letting that process play out rather than going nuts because the change hasn't happened over night.

 

[kmoose]

No one on this board is more qualified than Kelly. So I guess no one here has the right to criticize any of his decisions. Time to shut down the website.

Sorry if your delicate sensibilities were offended. I'm not against criticism, but I'm tired of people talking about the "obvious", like Kelly screwing up the QB situation, when they don't have a leg to stand on, in terms of understanding the issue. This isn't an Engineering exercise, where 98% of the variables are known. Hendrix completed a whopping 44% of his passes; he was obviously the answer!

 

[IrishJayhawk]

No, he didn't forget. But who's to say that he was that a great of a coach before he got to ND?

His record...at every stop.

 

[DillonHall]

His record...at every stop.

Do me a favor and look up the schedules that he faced at Cincinnati. I doubt he would've been very successful facing ND's schedule.

 

[DillonHall]

Sorry if your delicate sensibilities were offended. I'm not against criticism, but I'm tired of people talking about the "obvious", like Kelly screwing up the QB situation, when they don't have a leg to stand on, in terms of understanding the issue. This isn't an Engineering exercise, where 98% of the variables are known. Hendrix completed a whopping 44% of his passes; he was obviously the answer!

It blows my mind that some people can't see that it's obvious Kelly botched the QB situation. If you're telling me Hendrix wasn't ready, that's 100% on Kelly; he's the one who always gloats about player development and built his reputation on offense. Can you honestly tell me that we're in a better QB situation heading into next year compared to the start of this year?

 

[Rhode Irish]

A single turnover is on the player. However, when the team continues fumbling and the QB keeps throwing interceptions, why isn't the coaching staff to blame for not fixing these chronic issues in practice, etc.?

This is unbelievably wrong. So one turnover is the player's fault, but repeated turnovers are the coaches fault - not a result of the player just not being very good? The one thing I will criticize Kelly for is sticking with Rees for too long, but obviously there is a reason. In the long run, he will be to blame if he fails to recruit and/or develop a QB, but at this point his hands have been tied a bit. Again, I think patience is in order here. Fans are their programs' own worst enemies by demanding that coaches have results overnight when they take over. Some guys do, but some guys can't. I believe that whether a coach turns it around instantly has as much to do with the old regime as it does with the new one. Taking the team Kelly inherited, minus possibly it's best two players (Clausen and Tate), and winning 8 games two years in a row isn't terrible. It isn't going to get Kelly into the Hall of Fame, but it shouldn't have people calling for his job either.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Do me a favor and look up the schedules that he faced at Cincinnati. I doubt he would've been very successful facing ND's schedule.

I have. But, do me a favor and look at Cincy's records prior to his arrival. Those coaches weren't successful facing that schedule. Not even Dantonio.

 

[kmoose]

It blows my mind that some people can't see that it's obvious Kelly botched the QB situation. If you're telling me Hendrix wasn't ready, that's 100% on Kelly; he's the one who always gloats about player development and built his reputation on offense. Can you honestly tell me that we're in a better QB situation heading into next year compared to the start of this year?

It blows my mind that you expect Kelly to get a guy ready, in one season, at one of the most difficult academic institutions in the world. Other schools are able to get their key players ready because those schools don't require the same academic excellence as ND, so don't tell me about all of the other schools that have developed underclassmen QBs. I can't tell you that we are in a better situation, because I don't attend the practices. I don't know what progress Hendrix and Golson have, or haven't, made. And neither do you.

 

[DillonHall]

I have. But, do me a favor and look at Cincy's records prior to his arrival. Those coaches weren't successful facing that schedule. Not even Dantonio.

There's no question that he's a good coach and is better than Dantonio and Weis. However, that doesn't mean that he's the next Lou Holtz, so I don't understand peoples' faith in him.

 

[DillonHall]

It blows my mind that you expect Kelly to get a guy ready, in one season, at one of the most difficult academic institutions in the world. Other schools are able to get their key players ready because those schools don't require the same academic excellence as ND, so don't tell me about all of the other schools that have developed underclassmen QBs. I can't tell you that we are in a better situation, because I don't attend the practices. I don't know what progress Hendrix and Golson have, or haven't, made. And neither do you.

OK, like I said earlier, if you keep resorting to saying that we don't know certain things because we can't attend practices, then what's the point of this site? We're supposed to form opinions based on what we are able to see. If your best argument is that you don't know what you don't know, then forums and discussions are moot.

 

[kmoose]

Do me a favor and look up the schedules that he faced at Cincinnati. I doubt he would've been very successful facing ND's schedule.

You're going to lose this line of debate, every time. Kelly may have played weaker competition, but he also had less talent. It's not like Kelly took over an SEC team and started playing in the Big East. I guarantee you that Kelly never had an offensive player the likes of Michael Floyd, or a defensive player the likes of Manti Teo, at any of his other stops. He had the same caliber kids as the other schools in the Conference, and he just got more out of them. Maybe he can't do that at a big time school, but it's logical to think that he can, based on his previous results.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

There's no question that he's a good coach and is better than Dantonio and Weis. However, that doesn't mean that he's the next Lou Holtz, so I don't understand peoples' faith in him.

Okay. I can understand that perspective.

I think he did wonders with two terrible programs (Central Mich and Cincy). He has won everywhere, including titles at Grand Valley. His QBs are consistently better than advertised. His offenses put up ridiculous numbers.

I think the jury is out. But, I think there is every reason to believe that he'll be successful at ND.

In fact, my personal eyeball test is that every facet of the game except for punt return and QB play is as good or better than before.

 

[DillonHall]

This is unbelievably wrong. So one turnover is the player's fault, but repeated turnovers are the coaches fault - not a result of the player just not being very good? The one thing I will criticize Kelly for is sticking with Rees for too long, but obviously there is a reason. In the long run, he will be to blame if he fails to recruit and/or develop a QB, but at this point his hands have been tied a bit. Again, I think patience is in order here. Fans are their programs' own worst enemies by demanding that coaches have results overnight when they take over. Some guys do, but some guys can't. I believe that whether a coach turns it around instantly has as much to do with the old regime as it does with the new one. Taking the team Kelly inherited, minus possibly it's best two players (Clausen and Tate), and winning 8 games two years in a row isn't terrible. It isn't going to get Kelly into the Hall of Fame, but it shouldn't have people calling for his job either.

There's a big difference between blaming the coach for a team's shortcomings and demanding that he be fired. For the record, I'm willing to give him three more years, no matter the record on the field. I just don't get why some people get so defensive when Kelly gets criticized. It's OK, we're all ND fans!

 

[kmoose]

OK, like I said earlier, if you keep resorting to saying that we don't know certain things because we can't attend practices, then what's the point of this site? We're supposed to form opinions based on what we are able to see. If your best argument is that you don't know what you don't know, then forums and discussions are moot.

The point of this site is to intelligently and maturely discuss ND football. Stating things as fact, when you don't have all of the facts, is not intelligent. I'm asking people to open their minds to the fact that there may be factors unknown to them involved, that just might change their perspective of the situation.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Do me a favor and look up the schedules that he faced at Cincinnati. I doubt he would've been very successful facing ND's schedule.

Oh man. You are really having a tough night, dude. His Grand Valley teams probably wouldn't have been great against ND's schedule, but that isn't the point. The competition that he faced in his previous stops was completely commensurate with the level of program he was coaching. This is why I called you a hater last week. Criticism is OK, but your criticism lacks even an attempt at fairness or reason. It's just pure anger and bitterness spewing through your fingertips and onto my screen. It's annoying.

 

[DillonHall]

Oh man. You are really having a tough night, dude. His Grand Valley teams probably wouldn't have been great against ND's schedule, but that isn't the point. The competition that he faced in his previous stops was completely commensurate with the level of program he was coaching. This is why I called you a hater last week. Criticism is OK, but your criticism lacks even an attempt at fairness or reason. It's just pure anger and bitterness spewing through your fingertips and onto my screen. It's annoying.

Seriously? There's an endless list of coaches who had great success at lower-tier programs and then flamed out when they received a chance at a BCS job. It's not so simple to extrapolate the success that a coach may have at different positions. Why are you so certain that Kelly isn't the next coach to be added to this list?

 

[Rhode Irish]

Ok...and? Where have I guaranteed he will be successful? All I've said is that it's way too early to say he won't. Personally, I have confidence in him, but I recognize that it isn't a certainty. Most coaches that are successful at a high level were also successful at a lower level. Kelly's success on his way up the coaching ladder doesn't ensure success, but it definitely isn't a bad thing. It is an indicator of competence. So is his recruiting this far at ND, an the obvious improvements that he has made since he showed up. I've already acknowledged there is a lot of work left to do. My opinion is that he has shown more to indicate those things will get done than to indicate they won't. But it's a process.

 

[DillonHall]

Ok...and? Where have I guaranteed he will be successful? All I've said is that it's way too early to say he won't. Personally, I have confidence in him, but I recognize that it isn't a certainty. Most coaches that are successful at a high level were also successful at a lower level. Kelly's success on his way up the coaching ladder doesn't ensure success, but it definitely isn't a bad thing. It is an indicator of competence. So is his recruiting this far at ND, an the obvious improvements that he has made since he showed up. I've already acknowledged there is a lot of work left to do. My opinion is that he has shown more to indicate those things will get done than to indicate they won't. But it's a process.

ALL successful coaches had success at lower levels. Otherwise how would they have gotten the high profile job in the first place?

For as long as I've followed ND football (not that long), it's been a disappointment. My graduating class saw the most losses of any graduating class in a four year stretch; this included a miserable freshman year in 2007 when we got consistently blown out. I've been jaded by these experiences, and I'll remain pessimistic until there are better results (knowing that my opinion won't affect the future of this program). I had complete confidence in Kelly the past two years since his hiring, but now my BCS prediction for this season looks extremely stupid, and confidence has given way merely to wary hope.

Good night, I'm going to enjoy tonight before having to drive back to school for the spring semester. Happy new year! Go Irish!

 

[OlympiaIrishFan]

Buster, you said you was this offense put up gaudy offensive numbers this year? Really?

Throwing? Really?

Tommy had 1--I mean 1 300 yard passing day. That is not gaudy. We had some good days, but Gaudy isn't even close.

We have some potential with someone else besides Tommy Rees. But, we really had no gaudy offensive stats.

Baylor yes
Washington yes
Oregon yes
OK State yes

Us nope. Good days, just not gaudy.

 

[Domer4ever]

So now you're more qualified than Brian Kelly to determine who should be the starting QB for the University of Notre Dame Fighting Irish football team? You weren't at every practice and meeting......Kelly was. So isn't possible that there is some kind of logical explanation for why Rees started in place of Hendrix and/or Golson? Nah, it can't be. You think that Rees shouldn't have started, so Kelly must have mismanaged the situation. Thanks for the input, Bear Bryant!!

Get over yourself. How can you not say the QB position was mismanaged? Hell, Kelly didn't even know himself who should be the starting QB for the University of Notre Dame!!! He benched Crist after one half of football in the season opener after annointing him the teams starting QB after a "long preseason battle." Rees was a turnover machine all year long without showing any signs of improvement and wasn't an ideal fit for his offense to begin with, so why did he continue to throw him out on the field?!?! We saw more spark from the offense in one half of football under Hendrix then we saw out of Rees all year long. I am not saying Hendrix is the answer either, but he certainly fit what Kelly wanted to do offensively by his own admission. So again, why so much Rees all season long and in the bowl game? He was flat out terrible all year long.

If there are logical explinations I sure as hell would like to hear what they are. Maybe since you are the smart guy you could enlighten us with some of your knowledge on the situation. The fact is you dont know any more than me, but trying to defend Kelly for his handling of the QB's and insinuating there is some kind of sound reasoning for what has trasnpired with the QB's this year is only making you look bad and like you are grasping at straws trying to show what a "real fan" you are. Keep beating your chest and thanks for your input.....real fan!!!!

 

[OlympiaIrishFan]

Good post.

I sure got sick of hearing "he gives us the best chance to win" How do we know, Andrew just as well could have too. He can at least run. Tommy made me sick most of the year. Over and over he could not learn from his mistakes, and this makes us better this year and next? I sure don't think so. And I think that was one of the biggest mistakes of BK's coaching career.

Good defense shows up and Tommy folds like a cheap tent over and over. Most of us saw it, why couldn't? Stubborness? Coaches aren't perfect, but BK just made a mistake here.

Tommy is a horrible QB on the big stage or major college football. Look at his 6 TDs and 13 Turnovers against good defenses.

Just horrible. I sure hope Andrew or Everett can be answer, I think they have the talent too.

 

[kmoose]

Get over yourself. How can you not say the QB position was mismanaged? Hell, Kelly didn't even know himself who should be the starting QB for the University of Notre Dame!!! He benched Crist after one half of football in the season opener after annointing him the teams starting QB after a "long preseason battle." Rees was a turnover machine all year long without showing any signs of improvement and wasn't an ideal fit for his offense to begin with, so why did he continue to throw him out on the field?!?! We saw more spark from the offense in one half of football under Hendrix then we saw out of Rees all year long. I am not saying Hendrix is the answer either, but he certainly fit what Kelly wanted to do offensively by his own admission. So again, why so much Rees all season long and in the bowl game? He was flat out terrible all year long.

If there are logical explinations I sure as hell would like to hear what they are. Maybe since you are the smart guy you could enlighten us with some of your knowledge on the situation. The fact is you dont know any more than me, but trying to defend Kelly for his handling of the QB's and insinuating there is some kind of sound reasoning for what has trasnpired with the QB's this year is only making you look bad and like you are grasping at straws trying to show what a "real fan" you are. Keep beating your chest and thanks for your input.....real fan!!!!

Rees threw for 296 yards, in one half, against S. Florida. What did Hendrix throw for?

I have said, repeatedly, that I don't know all of the facts surrounding the situation. That's the difference here......... you say that it is a certainty that Kelly bolloxed it up. I'm saying it's not a certainty. I'm asking you to consider the possibility that Kelly made the right call, at that moment in the season. But you won't even consider it. As far as you are concerned, Kelly f*cked it up, and there is no other possible explanation.

 

[Domer4ever]

The point of this site is to intelligently and maturely discuss ND football. Stating things as fact, when you don't have all of the facts, is not intelligent. I'm asking people to open their minds to the fact that there may be factors unknown to them involved, that just might change their perspective of the situation.

It appears you are here more to berate anybody who does not agree with your view on things. If you want fact's.....the fact is you dont know more than anybody else and it's completely possible there isnt some magic explination for why certain things transpired the way they did. Sometimes there is no magic unicorn to explain things and you have to accept how things look at face value and what the evidence would point to as being the truth.

 

[kmoose]

It appears you are here more to berate anybody who does not agree with your view on things. If you want fact's.....the fact is you dont know more than anybody else and it's completely possible there isnt some magic explination for why certain things transpired the way they did. Sometimes there is no magic unicorn to explain things and you have to accept how things look at face value and what the evidence would point to as being the truth.

Where did I berate you?

 

[OlympiaIrishFan]

BK should not be fired, he just has to learn from his mistakes and move forward. The biggest mistake in being Tommy Rees left as QB WAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY toooooo long. The turnover machine was too much to bare.

 

[IrishAlum1997]

BK should not be fired, he just has to learn from his mistakes and move forward. The biggest mistake in being Tommy Rees left as QB WAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY toooooo long. The turnover machine was too much to bare.

Sounds like I know who's spending the night with Tommy Rees...........

 

[N_D_Fighting_Irish]

Rees threw for 296 yards, in one half, against S. Florida. What did Hendrix throw for?

I have said, repeatedly, that I don't know all of the facts surrounding the situation. That's the difference here......... you say that it is a certainty that Kelly bolloxed it up. I'm saying it's not a certainty. I'm asking you to consider the possibility that Kelly made the right call, at that moment in the season. But you won't even consider it. As far as you are concerned, Kelly f*cked it up, and there is no other possible explanation.

What are the other explanations as to why Rees was the only QB to get playing time rain or shine? I think Kelly f*cked up satisifies occam's razor.

 

[kmoose]

What are the other explanations as to why Rees was the only QB to get playing time rain or shine? I think Kelly f*cked up satisifies occam's razor.

Golson, himself, said in an interview that he fell way behind, in learning the playbook, because he had to adjust to the academic demands of ND.

If you don't know what you don't know, then occam's razor does not apply.