Post Game Observations

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Speaking of things never changing, the "doom and gloom" atmosphere is not gone either. I don't know how to fix this, but after the Crist fumble, you could have heard a pin drop. I know that so much has been made about the "Michigan Experience" how their fans kept the energy up the entire game. Well, that was not the case at home yesterday. The same thing happened when Goodie fumbled the punt against State, but the team rallied. The "here we go again" mentality, hopefully, one day, will change.

That's 100% on the team.

 

[CarrollVermin]

That's 100% on the team.

It starts there, sure...but the mentality of the entire fan base has to change.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

It starts there, sure...but the mentality of the entire fan base has to change.

The team over the past 2 decades has proven to be a chronic disappointment. It's learned helplessness.

 

[phork]

I didn't read through this entire thread, so if this has been mentioned already, forgive me.

The game was lost on 2 plays.

You mean the play that we couldn't stop them? Errr like every drive? Or the play that we couldn't get a first down to save our lives? Errrr almost every drive.

 

[CarrollVermin]

The team over the past 2 decades has proven to be a chronic disappointment. It's learned helplessness.

Ehh...then why watch? In all honesty, don't subject yourself to something that you a) don't enjoy watching and b) don't think will end well. No disrespect intended in saying that either.

There comes a point as a fan base, alumni, subway alumni, t-shirt fan, whatever, that the switch has to flip. Yes, there is a history of disappointment, but that does not dictate the future. At some point, we have to learn to take the punches and fight back. When that happens, the program benefits and the "here we go again" mentality can finally go away. And yes, you are right, it starts with the mental toughness of your football team.

 

[CarrollVermin]

One other observation from the weekend...the pep rally needs to go back to the JACC. I miss the days when those were a tougher ticket than the actual game. The "pep" is lost at Irish Green...those need to go back indoors.

 

[OlympiaIrishFan]

I like most of that, but Tommy Rees OK?

I disagree. Not horrible, but below Average-D grade in my opinion. 5.1 Average per completion. No TD's. 1 Int. Blown TD throws. missed wide open players? That isn't OK. That is below average IMO. Like I said in other posts, he locked on players and totally ignored open receivers. Then blew through progressions so he wouldn't get hit. Sorry, it was almost a bad performance. The only thing I think puts it above bad is that he threw the ball away on a couple that saved a int or sack. But, Tommy isn't getting better which is concerning to me. He should have played better because guys got open and he blew it.

Not saying Andrew would have hit every one of those open guys, but at least he could have pulled it down and run.

We are just in a quandry right now. We have a qb that can't run and is inconsistant. And the two back-ups have issues. One has even less exp and the same age as Tommy and the other keeps shooting himself in the foot. I guess turnover Tommy is our best of a bad situation. Still kind of sick of seeing Tommy's turnovers and inconsitant play.

 

[koonja]

I've been the biggest Rees critic this season. I was starting to come around after the last two games, but reserved judgement because the competition was weak. I've taken a lot of heat for commenting about how Rees should not start, but like I said, I was coming around. If he played well in the USC game and/or we at least won (he has a solid record as a starter), I was going to create a thread and offer my apologies to him and anyone who I argued with on here about how I think he should sit. Well, no need for that anymore. Since we're not going to a BCS and he's not the QB of the future (Kelly can't continue to slide by with a QB who doesn't fit his system), I really wouldn't mind seeing Hendrix get a chance to start. We're seeing the same mistakes from Rees as we saw in week 1, and I don't see the upside of continuing to start a struggling QB who can't run in the spread.


In no way am I blaming this loss on Rees. Not all his fault. But since I was going to praise him if they won THIS game, I thought I'd share my thoughts.

One great thing that I haven't seen mentioned is that as far as the night game, I didn't see anything at the stadium that would prevent there from being future night games at ND. No one seemed out-of-control drunk and there were no fights.

 

[koonja]

Also, during the player walk I noticed:

Sheldon Day looks like Ian Williams did during Williams' last season at ND. Built like a brick **** house. About Jarron Jones, don't buy his measurables on here. He's actually around 7'3" and 350 lbs. Diamond also huge.

 

[OlympiaIrishFan]

Kue, I totally agree. We are totally out of the BCS. And now we are 4-3, enough. Time to move onto the future and IMO I don't want Tommy any where around our Future as QB. He was a very nice stop gap. But, not a future leader in my opinion. Can't run, weakish arm, and an absolute turnover machine. Time to let Andrew play and see if he is our future. Or we can keep playing Turnover Tommy and get to the Sun Bowl again. As long as we have Floyd and Harrison to save Tommy like they did in last years bowl game--we are what we are.

Time to move to Andrew, and let Tommy be the 2nd stringer. Sorry Dayne, really like you but we can't have those mistakes. Even though Tommy turns it over he is still given every opportunity to stay in. Time to see Andrew and what he has to offer. We are already out of the BCS. Oh well, stay with Turnover Tommy or an even more inexperienced Andrew not the best of choices for BK.

 

[kmoose]

Time to move onto the future and IMO I don't want Tommy any where around our Future as QB. He was a very nice stop gap. But, not a future leader in my opinion. Can't run, weakish arm, and an absolute turnover machine. Time to let Andrew play and see if he is our future. Or we can keep playing Turnover Tommy and get to the Sun Bowl again.

If you don't think Tommy Rees is the future at QB, for at least the next two years (barring injury), then you might as well move on to rooting for another team. Because you will hate ND football, in those years.

 

[pkt77242]

Kue, I totally agree. We are totally out of the BCS. And now we are 4-3, enough. Time to move onto the future and IMO I don't want Tommy any where around our Future as QB. He was a very nice stop gap. But, not a future leader in my opinion. Can't run, weakish arm, and an absolute turnover machine. Time to let Andrew play and see if he is our future. Or we can keep playing Turnover Tommy and get to the Sun Bowl again. As long as we have Floyd and Harrison to save Tommy like they did in last years bowl game--we are what we are.

Time to move to Andrew, and let Tommy be the 2nd stringer. Sorry Dayne, really like you but we can't have those mistakes. Even though Tommy turns it over he is still given every opportunity to stay in. Time to see Andrew and what he has to offer. We are already out of the BCS. Oh well, stay with Turnover Tommy or an even more inexperienced Andrew not the best of choices for BK.

BK will not give up on the season and put someone in that he feels doesn't give us the best chance to win because
1. our recruiting class depends on it. 8-4 and we probably keep the class together and add some other top notch recruits. 6-6 or worse and we might see the decommits start.
2. BK's job depends on it, maybe not this year but in the future. 8-4 this years shows some improvement over last year while 6-6 shows that we are backsliding and will shorten his leash in the future.

So in short Rees is the starter for the rest of the year unless.
A: he completely implodes
B: we have no chance at bowl eligibility
C: Rees gets injured.

 

[koonja]

If you don't think Tommy Rees is the future at QB, for at least the next two years (barring injury), then you might as well move on to rooting for another team. Because you will hate ND football, in those years.

I'm not a fairweather fan, I just don't see Rees starting in year 3 of Kelly's tenure. It's time for a QB that fits his system. I'm sure that limitation is frustrating him as well.

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

I'm not a fairweather fan, I just don't see Rees starting in year 3 of Kelly's tenure. It's time for a QB that fits his system. I'm sure that limitation is frustrating him as well.

I agree with you, Kue. It will be an open competition in the spring, no doubt. Hendrix and Golson will get every chance to win the job.

 

[pkt77242]

I agree with you, Kue. It will be an open competition in the spring, no doubt. Hendrix and Golson will get every chance to win the job.

I agree with this, during the spring it will be an open competition but not during the season unless it completely goes down the toilet.

 

[kmoose]

I'm not a fairweather fan, I just don't see Rees starting in year 3 of Kelly's tenure. It's time for a QB that fits his system. I'm sure that limitation is frustrating him as well.

And what, exactly, is "a QB that fits his system."?

 

[NDPhilly]

Being at the game Ill give some observations.

-I only saw towels being handed out at the student gate. Can Anyone confirm this?

-Music was really good except for the one song they kept doing on 3rd downs. I think that was because we scoukdnt get a stop though

-Dropkick Murphies at the beginning was great

-Standing for most of the game

-Crowd was loud for once

-12 year old girl behind me was READING A BOOK the whole game.

-Gunner Kiel texted a lot but cheered for ND as much as anyone not committed to ND

-Jordan Payton, Shaq, Treggs seemed kinda disinterested during the game

-There were at least 2 kids that aren't committed to ND whirring ND stuff

-Tay B was rockin the ND beanie as alway

-Temperachure throughout the day was high 50s through 60s and sunny. Was really nice. Got a little chilly towards the end of the game.

-USC Song Girls are as good as advertised. Some ND students applauded them as they walked off during half which was pretty funny.

 

[military_irish]

I'm not a fairweather fan, I just don't see Rees starting in year 3 of Kelly's tenure. It's time for a QB that fits his system. I'm sure that limitation is frustrating him as well.

I don't think he has a "QB that fits a system", he just has a QB that he knows can play.

At Cincinnati Tony Pike helped them to an 11-3 record in 2008 and a BCS berth. In 2009 he also helped for an undefeated regular season and a berth in the Sugar Bowl. But he rarely ran, in 2008 he ran for 47 yards and in 2009 he ran for 6 yards.

Pike did have a punt of 21 yards and 3 tackles, maybe that is the versatility we need?

 

[koonja]

And what, exactly, is "a QB that fits his system."?

Duel threat.

 

[kmoose]

Duel threat.

Like an honor duel?

Look, I'm not sure how many times it needs to be said, so let me say it with added emphasis:


Brian Kelly, the guy whose offense it is? He's already said that he doesn't need his QB to be a runner!!!

So tell me.............who do you think I should trust? The guy who runs the system, or you?

 

[IrishLax]

Being at the game Ill give some observations.

-I only saw towels being handed out at the student gate. Can Anyone confirm this?

-Music was really good except for the one song they kept doing on 3rd downs. I think that was because we scoukdnt get a stop though

-Dropkick Murphies at the beginning was great

-Standing for most of the game

-Crowd was loud for once

-12 year old girl behind me was READING A BOOK the whole game.

-Gunner Kiel texted a lot but cheered for ND as much as anyone not committed to ND

-Jordan Payton, Shaq, Treggs seemed kinda disinterested during the game

-There were at least 2 kids that aren't committed to ND whirring ND stuff

-Tay B was rockin the ND beanie as alway

-Temperachure throughout the day was high 50s through 60s and sunny. Was really nice. Got a little chilly towards the end of the game.

-USC Song Girls are as good as advertised. Some ND students applauded them as they walked off during half which was pretty funny.

Thanks for the observations.

 

[meowmix]

-How much did we miss Ethan Johnson? Was that the reason our run D was so bad? Or was it USC's OL just playing great?
-Our coaches called an awful game. Lo Wood 1v1 with Robert Woods? Completely abandoning the run? And the team was just completely unprepared to play to start the game.
-We have the most hilarious awful mistakes I have ever seen a CFB team have. Chance to tie the game... fumble return for TD. Another chance to get a drive and tie the game... fumbled lateral. You just cannot turn the ball over the way that we do.
-Tommy Rees is a really tough dude and I am interested to see what kind of injury he had.
-Ben Turk had a strong game.
-I cannot believe how not mad I am right now. I can't figure out why. Maybe I've finally subconsciously given up.

I was the exact same way. I wasn't nearly as angry as after Michigan. I think for me personally, this game only served to reinforce the fact that we're not a good team, while I still thought we were a good, but really unlucky team going into Michigan.

And as far as the Rees vs. other qb arguments, I'm in the camp propounding that this season is already in the $hitter. Hopefully the team's made appointments with reconstructive surgeons for after the Stanford game. I won't weigh in on which qb I want to start, just because I don't feel like getting lambasted by either side. But those in the Rees camp, believe he doesn't have a low ceiling, is getting better, and could be really really good next year. Those in the other camps (I won't talk about Dayne - I love the kid, but he doesn't have the mental makeup to win the job) believe since the season is essentially over, why not let Hendrix get experience the next few weeks against Navy, Wake, Maryland instead of throwing him to the wolves against OK, etc. next season (if he wins the Qb competition)

 

[meowmix]

I don't think he has a "QB that fits a system", he just has a QB that he knows can play.

At Cincinnati Tony Pike helped them to an 11-3 record in 2008 and a BCS berth. In 2009 he also helped for an undefeated regular season and a berth in the Sugar Bowl. But he rarely ran, in 2008 he ran for 47 yards and in 2009 he ran for 6 yards.

Pike did have a punt of 21 yards and 3 tackles, maybe that is the versatility we need?

Kelly doesn't have to have a duel-threat to win, but his offense clicks much better with a mobile qb (watch zach collaros highlights while Kelly was coach)

 

[meowmix]

-USC Song Girls are as good as advertised. Some ND students applauded them as they walked off during half which was pretty funny.

Keep an eye on the ND Observer viewpoints section. Every time this happens, female students write in about how chauvinistic the male students are. It's really funny. But yes, they're spectacular.

 

[OlympiaIrishFan]

Meo, I have to agree with you. I am a lot less mad than I was vs. Michigan or USF. The realization that we have been overrated (as our +9 by Vegas). I hate to feel that way, and am thinking can we be a stud team again? Right now with Rees the answer is No IMO.

The only positive is that we have Teo for a few more games, Tuitt-GAIII-Lynch-Ishaq.

But, seeing Rees the starter is starting to make me feel sick because I know he has zero chance of beating a really good team. ZERO chance. And people want to bring up the Sun Bowl. I was there and Harrison almost single handedly won that game. And Martin was dominating on the Oline, and Floyd was owning Miami. When Floyd got hurt Tommy looked like crap. Tommy is something like 9-4 or 9-5 when he plays the majority of the time. That isn't elite.

 

[pkt77242]

Keep an eye on the ND Observer viewpoints section. Every time this happens, female students write in about how chauvinistic the male students are. It's really funny. But yes, they're spectacular.

No, They're real and they're spectacular.

 

[military_irish]

Kelly doesn't have to have a duel-threat to win, but his offense clicks much better with a mobile qb (watch zach collaros highlights while Kelly was coach)

Agreed, but it is not NEED, or a must. More of a luxury.

I believe wholeheartedy he can win here. This team and fan base is use to losing and he is trying his hardest to beat that mentality out of everyones head. Us as fans just need to roll with the punches.

I've said this before but there are 120 FBS schools and most of the time 1-3 teams go undefeated and only 2 make the National Championship game. One only wins. As much as I want to see ND go undefeated, it really is a difficult task. This team has talent, and is acquiring young talent. They are headed in the right direction.

The bandwagon is very empty at the moment but I will put my whole life savings on it that once ND is headed for an undefeated season it will be packed with people who were kicking this team while they were down. I tend to put my hand out and help them up if I can.

Sorry got on a soapbox for a minute

 

[OlympiaIrishFan]

Is it kicking to speak the truth? We are 4-3. So, it is bandwagon to say what is going bad with the team?

I will never get off. Have been there since I was a kid. Got my grad cert at ND and will always be Irish. But, I am not looking through rose colored glasses. And Rees is a problem. Not his fault that he has no running ability. Is a turnover machine. Locks on receivers. And isn't a vocal leader. He is who he is.

The good thing is that our freshman class is studly. And if our commits stay we will be studley once again. But, if Rees is there we will be nothing more than average to above average.

 

[OlympiaIrishFan]

Oh, I should clarify--Rees is a problem if we want to be elite or BCS level team. I think Rees has about zero chance of leading us to that level. He isn't a problem keeping us around the Sun Bowl Level and above .500.

If fans want to be like that, he is a zero problem. But, rising to an elite level NO WAY.

 

[pkt77242]

Is it kicking to speak the truth? We are 4-3. So, it is bandwagon to say what is going bad with the team?

I will never get off. Have been there since I was a kid. Got my grad cert at ND and will always be Irish. But, I am not looking through rose colored glasses. And Rees is a problem. Not his fault that he has no running ability. Is a turnover machine. Locks on receivers. And isn't a vocal leader. He is who he is.
The good thing is that our freshman class is studly. And if our commits stay we will be studley once again. But, if Rees is there we will be nothing more than average to above average.

I will not argue that Rees is a great QB but here is his stats for the year.
163/249 65.5% 1693 yards 6.8YPA 14 tds 7 int 135.5 rating. He also has 2 fumbles (I think this is right but I can't find fumbles in the ESPN box scores and it seems the fumble was attributed to Wood in the USC game). So 9 turnovers in 7 games? hardly a turnover machine. yes he does lock onto a receiver at times but then again most young qb's do and the part about not being a vocal leader is just crap. Remember the USF game when the ball bounced of TJ's helmet and BK was yelling at him. Who was over their being a leader? Yep Tommy.

Tommy isn't an amazing QB, heck he isn't even great, but I would say that he is above average. Does he need to get better, yep, but you could say that about most of our team right now.