State of the Irish

[ACamp1900]

...and he comes out of hiding.....Sweet. When you're done enlightening everyone on how they should feel, let me know. This was a tough loss against a tough opponent. Pretty tough to eat $hit from a guy who decides to show up a month later and after a tough loss and be expected to eat your crap.

But you let me know...

It's all good, Brah...

 

[JoeyGetherall]

Could they really beat any Weis team? I mean, I definitely think Kelly > Weis, but the first 2 years of Weis were BCS teams. Sure, they weren't his recruits....and they were poor on D. But I think it could be argued that 2 Weis teams were better than this year's team.

They were BCS teams in that they made the bowl but they were embarrassed both times. 9-3 and 10-3 teams overall. Lost to USC twice and MSU and UofM once in those seasons. Charlie also had a great college QB Brady Quinn. At this point I don't think anyone can call CW > BK or BK > CW. What I do like about BK is where he is headed with the recruiting and off the field stuff but at some point that needs to translate to on the field production.

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

It's all good, Brah...

Glad to hear it.

 

[I Dont Miss Charlie]

They were BCS teams in that they made the bowl but they were embarrassed both times. 9-3 and 10-3 teams overall. Lost to USC twice and MSU and UofM once in those seasons. Charlie also had a great college QB Brady Quinn. At this point I don't think anyone can call CW > BK or BK > CW. What I do like about BK is where he is headed with the recruiting and off the field stuff but at some point that needs to translate to on the field production.

Charlie's recruiting made us optimistic too when compared to Ty Willingham & Bob Davie in their respective tenures.

We got embarassed in those BCS Games but I dont think anyone here thought we were bound for what happened the following 3 years. I think many expected us to be consistently "good" going forward rather than consistently mediocre.

Heck, I'd trade a 7-5/8-4 season this year going to the Pinstripe Bowl to get embarassed in a BCS Bowl this year.

 

[Epitome]

We went from 6-6 under Charlie to 7-5 under Kelly.

The problem is that there is no distinct difference on the field between where our program is at in the first 2 years under Kelly & the last 2 years under Charlie. We're 4-3 right now and when we look at the remaining schedule we're saying that the best case scenario is 8-4. Yet none of us can be certain we're going to get there, and the most telling part is that it wouldn't be a surprise to any of us if we didnt get there.

Some say to stop comparing Notre Dame to the other Elite programs because we're not them. But I will never put my expectations or standards to the level of a Pittsburgh or USF.

We should be an Elite program. Im tired of the excuses. If a man like Harbaugh can change the culture of Stanford football immediately with their academic standards coupled in with their lack of facilities, resources, & history. Well........I dont see why we cant expect the same of our program. All it takes is a culture change in which winning is expected, & failure makes us even stronger. We dont have that now & havent had it in a very long time.

Either Kelly becomes that guy or we need to find the guy who does.

Im done for my monthly rant.

Very good post... I remember how everyone was pumped when Kelly said "this isn't a five yaer plan, its a five minute plan" Its up to him to get these players to play with that mentality. I actually like BK, but everything said as the ND head coach gets taken to heart by many fans. He needs to get the train rolling soon.

 

[Irish4Life09]

I want to take this opportunity to apologize to anyone "offended" by a little namecalling.
I just request one thing...please stop bashing on the kids playing for ND...and give the coaches some credit and at least 3 years before calling for their heads.
It boggles my mind how people can bash players that give their hearts playing for our beloved ND...

 

[Irish_bean]

Too much unneeded fancy crap too early. End of story. lol.

 

[enrico514]

We went from 6-6 under Charlie to 7-5 under Kelly.

The problem is that there is no distinct difference on the field between where our program is at in the first 2 years under Kelly & the last 2 years under Charlie. We're 4-3 right now and when we look at the remaining schedule we're saying that the best case scenario is 8-4. Yet none of us can be certain we're going to get there, and the most telling part is that it wouldn't be a surprise to any of us if we didnt get there.

Some say to stop comparing Notre Dame to the other Elite programs because we're not them. But I will never put my expectations or standards to the level of a Pittsburgh or USF.

We should be an Elite program. Im tired of the excuses. If a man like Harbaugh can change the culture of Stanford football immediately with their academic standards coupled in with their lack of facilities, resources, & history. Well........I dont see why we cant expect the same of our program. All it takes is a culture change in which winning is expected, & failure makes us even stronger. We dont have that now & havent had it in a very long time.

Either Kelly becomes that guy or we need to find the guy who does.

Im done for my monthly rant.

Unless I'm wrong Harbaugh did NOT change Stanford football right away and I believe he went 9 and 15 in his first 2 years.

 

[military_irish]

We went from 6-6 under Charlie to 7-5 under Kelly.

The problem is that there is no distinct difference on the field between where our program is at in the first 2 years under Kelly & the last 2 years under Charlie. We're 4-3 right now and when we look at the remaining schedule we're saying that the best case scenario is 8-4. Yet none of us can be certain we're going to get there, and the most telling part is that it wouldn't be a surprise to any of us if we didnt get there.

If a man like Harbaugh can change the culture of Stanford football immediately with their academic standards coupled in with their lack of facilities, resources, & history. Well........
Im done for my monthly rant.

The last two years under Charlie it seemed like there was no hope with this team. I believe. Last year many predicted ND losing to Utah and USC, except they won both of those games. Why say the best case is 8-4 when the games have not been played yet.

Harbaugh did not change the football atmosphere immediately he went 4-8, 5-7, 8-5, then had his 12-1 season. Not really immediately.

Kelly is on the right path.

 

[Grahambo]

Very good post... I remember how everyone was pumped when Kelly said "this isn't a five yaer plan, its a five minute plan" Its up to him to get these players to play with that mentality. I actually like BK, but everything said as the ND head coach gets taken to heart by many fans. He needs to get the train rolling soon.

He can coach them like no other coach has before but it still is up to the players to execute. Some of them just aren't good enough to be a starter or playmaker on a BCS championship team.

That's just my way of looking at it though. After watching some of the same guys play for Weis and now BK, just shows me that Weis was a poor recruiter, especially on defense.

 

[dre1919]

In my opinion, the state of Irish Football is directly related to the coaching carousel we've had here since Lou left. I was not a fan of CW because of his smug attitude, lack of concern for the finer points of being a head coach, and the fact that he himself never won anything without a tremendous supporting cast.

I was a fan of the Brian Kelly hire because he did well at Cincy, but before that won national championships at the division two level and had been a head coach for quite some time. Unlike bringing in a hot shot coordinator, this man knew what it takes to mold young men into football players and still balance the media and classroom side of college athletics. However, as has been demonstrated on the field, his teams consistently keep getting out coached.

For once, I finally believe we have the talent that is equal to many big time programs. Now though, the preparations, the adjustments and the game management is failing because for whatever reason, BK and his staff are just not performing. Sure, the players have done poor jobs in spots and there has been a lot of bad luck. But, A LOT of things this season have just been mental errors, flatness in starting the game, poor execution and fundamentals, poor game planning and a failure to deliver in all phases of the game effectively.

Whether or not is BK, Bob Diaco, whomever...the blame ultimately falls on the head coach. The post saying we "are no better off than when we had Charlie" is fundamentally right. We have pretty good talent (just like then). We're winning some games we should and losing some we shouldn't (just like then). We're churning up yards, but at times failing to couple that with real points to show for it and we have players in key positions that cannot execute things that should have been second nature by high school.

Those are all coaching failures. Now, the problem is, since we have had so many coaches come and go since Lou this place has become something of a trap that any great coaches avoid. And that's exactly what we need...a great coach. We need someone that has been a head coach for awhile, won national championships, and knows what it takes to prepare and adjust on the fly in the most difficult settings. Unfortunately, I don't really think BK is that guy (not sure if he was, just coaching in a watered down Big East).

My advice on fixing the situation is having someone fly to Urban Meyer's home, throw him a checkbook containing blank checks across the dinner table and say "Write whatever you feel appropriate in there and we'll see you at work on Monday."

 

[Epitome]

Unless I'm wrong Harbaugh did NOT change Stanford football right away and I believe he went 9 and 15 in his first 2 years.

You are dead on. However he took over a 1-11 team that was about 15 schollies short and turned them around in 3 years.

 

[pkt77242]

I agree. I think there's blame there for Rees and/or Wood, no doubt, but as I was watching the game and as soon as I saw that play, I said to myself, "Why would you even have that play in your playbook? Why have a lateral swing pass like that with the RB running out into the flat?"

Despite its simplistic looking nature, that's actually kind of a difficult throw for the QB to make and the RB to catch. I was wondering why it was called myself...particularly as a lateral (or even what could be construed as a lateral).

Um, a lot of spread teams run this play. The idea is to get you playmaker (CW) the ball in space and let him make something happen. ASU ran this play against USC all the time when they played them and it worked really well. So I don't get your point. Catch the damn ball.

 

[Green Goblin]

You are dead on. However he took over a 1-11 team that was about 15 schollies short and turned them around in 3 years.

Ahhh....we might as well have been 1-11 coming into the Kelly era.

2007 - 3-9
2008 - 6-6 regular season
2009 - 6-6

and really the atmosphere around the team at the end of 2009 was just grim. Absolutely ugly.

Mediocrity had set in.

Also, Harbaugh was fortunate enough to have a guy named Andrew Luck come through the door. If Luck comes through Kelly's door tomorrow, I think ND would go farther than Stanford has...

 

[irishog77]

Um, a lot of spread teams run this play. The idea is to get you playmaker (CW) the ball in space and let him make something happen. ASU ran this play against USC all the time when they played them and it worked really well. So I don't get your point. Catch the damn ball.

Ok, now for the THIRD time-- IF YOU CALL THAT PLAY, MAKE SURE IT IS A FORWARD PASS, OR MAKE SURE YOU HAVE TAUGHT THE PLAYER TO CONTINUE ON TO THE BALL AT FULL SPEED IF THE BALL IS DROPPED.

I realize teams from high school to college to the pros run that play. But after watching the execution of that play (similar to the Rees' option play), raise your hand if you think that was a good play call??

 

[Epitome]

Ahhh....we might as well have been 1-11 coming into the Kelly era.

2007 - 3-9
2008 - 6-6 regular season
2009 - 6-6

and really the atmosphere around the team at the end of 2009 was just grim. Absolutely ugly.

Mediocrity had set in.

Also, Harbaugh was fortunate enough to have a guy named Andrew Luck come through the door. If Luck comes through Kelly's door tomorrow, I think ND would go farther than Stanford has...

Your not serious are you? ND was loaded with talent at every position besides CB and QB when Kelly took over. All he has to do is win the games he is supposed to and we would not be upset with an occasional loss like tonight.

 

[Epitome]

Ok, now for the THIRD time-- IF YOU CALL THAT PLAY, MAKE SURE IT IS A FORWARD PASS, OR MAKE SURE YOU HAVE TAUGHT THE PLAYER TO CONTINUE ON TO THE BALL AT FULL SPEED IF THE BALL IS DROPPED.

I realize teams from high school to college to the pros run that play. But after watching the execution of that play (similar to the Rees' option play), raise your hand if you think that was a good play call??

This play was called early on. If this was what we worked on during the bye week, that further identifies a poor week of preparation.

 

[pkt77242]

Ok, now for the THIRD time-- IF YOU CALL THAT PLAY, MAKE SURE IT IS A FORWARD PASS, OR MAKE SURE YOU HAVE TAUGHT THE PLAYER TO CONTINUE ON TO THE BALL AT FULL SPEED IF THE BALL IS DROPPED.

I realize teams from high school to college to the pros run that play. But after watching the execution of that play (similar to the Rees' option play), raise your hand if you think that was a good play call??

Um, it was a good call, but bad execution (and that is what you are talking about execution not play call). Why is it a bad call? Just because it didn't work? That doesn't make sense. If you want to say that the players screwed up the exectution I would agree but I am not seeing the bad play call.

 

[military_irish]

Your not serious are you? ND was loaded with talent at every position besides CB and QB when Kelly took over. All he has to do is win the games he is supposed to and we would not be upset with an occasional loss like tonight.

He has, at the begining of the season most predictied a win over USF but wasn't 100%, Michigan was a toss up, as was USC. None of them were given this year. Maybe last year he shoud have won some but not this one.

He beat every team he was suppose to 100% should have. He beat Air Force by 40 before he let the 2nd and 3rd string in. Which is that same team that almost beat Boise St.

 

[irishog77]

This play was called early on. If this was what we worked on during the bye week, that further identifies a poor week of preparation.

Thank you for getting my original point...from about 2 hours ago now! Lol!

 

[BeauBenken]

Ok, now for the THIRD time-- IF YOU CALL THAT PLAY, MAKE SURE IT IS A FORWARD PASS, OR MAKE SURE YOU HAVE TAUGHT THE PLAYER TO CONTINUE ON TO THE BALL AT FULL SPEED IF THE BALL IS DROPPED.

I realize teams from high school to college to the pros run that play. But after watching the execution of that play (similar to the Rees' option play), raise your hand if you think that was a good play call??

That play was setup and would have been money. If you go back and check out how it looked right before Cierre was going to catch the ball, it was blocked to at least get a first down. We found a way to **** it up though. Notre Dame is the epitome of Murphy's law. Execution on the players' parts has to continue to get better.

 

[Epitome]

He has, at the begining of the season most predictied a win over USF but wasn't 100%, Michigan was a toss up, as was USC. None of them were given this year. Maybe last year he shoud have won some but not this one.

He beat every team he was suppose to 100% should have. He beat Air Force by 40 before he let the 2nd and 3rd string in. Which is that same team that almost beat Boise St.

We've lost to Navy, Tulsa and South Florida over the last year and a half.

 

[military_irish]

We've lost to Navy, Tulsa and South Florida over the last year and a half.

And as I said in my post THIS YEAR they have beat everyone they should have. USF was no where near a for sure win. Most predicted it but none were 100%.

 

[Epitome]

If you want to count this year we were double digit favorites over SF and favored by more than a TD against UM and USC

 

[military_irish]

If you want to count this year we were double digit favorites over SF and favored by more than a TD against UM and USC

There is a difference from being favored (Vegas standards) and actually knowing if you will win.

The UM game was a toss up, I don't care what ANYONE says as was the USC game.

The USF game was too, considering it was the first game of the season, and USF has pretty good players.

Did anyone really think ND would smash any of those teams?

 

[irishtrain]

As I watched the game I noticed how flat Notre Dame was and it was killing me until the kick-off return. They played on the edge of losing rather than carrying the hammer at southern cal. southern cal was more at ease with this spotlight. I also would say Notre Dame was outcoached. This one hurts a ton. Hope the recruits dont get discouraged-we need all the help we can get. When Jonas scored I thought allright they'll get this done. Its only a game but this one sets the program back alot in my mind. 9/3 or 8/4 now wouldnt mean much-this team could have done better. They do not know how to win yet-15 years of mediocrity will do that. The way college football is today I do not know anymore what else Notre Dame can do. Keep playing it straight and hope to get quality players with the will to win. Tonight they looked uncomfortable as soon as southern cal came out and smacked 'em in the mouth. Tonight the better team won know matter what or who you try to blame.

 

[WaveDomer]

I think the state of ND football is that the team laid an egg. What are you going to do? That happens. It's way too early to have a verdict on Coach Kelly yet, in terms of his career at ND.
This fanbase is way too high and way too low. There needs to be a middle ground here. We lose to Navy last year and people are going nuts. We then win November and the Sun Bowl and we are ready to go to the BCS this year. Then we lose to S. FL and Mich. and (see Navy above). Then win 4 and we are off to the races again. I'm annoyed as the next person at the ups and downs, but this is what it is. It might be that Kelly isn't the right guy, but it's too early to tell that now.
I also understand that other schools turn it around quick when they get a great coach in, but ND isn't any other school. There is a lot more to ND than to most other schools. Kelly has done it before and I tend to believe that he can do it again. Davie, Willingham, and Weis had not done it before as HCes.
This isn't to say that people can't discuss what went wrong. I just don't think it's worthwhile to throw everything out because of a loss. They happen.

 

[Epitome]

There is a difference from being favored (Vegas standards) and actually knowing if you will win.

The UM game was a toss up, I don't care what ANYONE says as was the USC game.

The USF game was too, considering it was the first game of the season, and USF has pretty good players.

Did anyone really think ND would smash any of those teams?

Listen we handled MSU, who proved tonight that they could play with anyone. We have all the talent in the world and if more than 10% of ND fans were scared of an upset at the hands of USF I'd be shocked. Furthermore, you're justifying mediocrity by saying that losing to bad teams last year doesn't count and every team on ND schedule is better than what they are.

 

[Veer option]

This fanbase is way too high and way too low. There needs to be a middle ground here..

^ I would take the middle ground at this point rather than these ups and downs, its not good for my abused liver.

 

[BeauBenken]

As I watched the game I noticed how flat Notre Dame was and it was killing me until the kick-off return. They played on the edge of losing rather than carrying the hammer at southern cal. southern cal was more at ease with this spotlight. I also would say Notre Dame was outcoached. This one hurts a ton. Hope the recruits dont get discouraged-we need all the help we can get. When Jonas scored I thought allright they'll get this done. Its only a game but this one sets the program back alot in my mind. 9/3 or 8/4 now wouldnt mean much-this team could have done better. They do not know how to win yet-15 years of mediocrity will do that. The way college football is today I do not know anymore what else Notre Dame can do. Keep playing it straight and hope to get quality players with the will to win. Tonight they looked uncomfortable as soon as southern cal came out and smacked 'em in the mouth. Tonight the better team won know matter what or who you try to blame.

I agree with a lot of this. (I would say all, but I'm afraid I missed some things in the that massive block of text. lol) This team still has to learn how to win. We have guys on this team that are use to .500 seasons. Winning is a mentality.