What I don't get about the ND boards.

[tommyIRISH23]

So you won't question our starting QB based on the fact that BK chose Tommy to start, therefore Tommy is the best QB for our team.

And about Tommy throwing 40 passes a game, when in your opinion, he should only be throwing 25, are you questioning BKs play calling? If you can question BKs gameplan, why can't we question his judgement in a starting QB?

Let's look at your 1-4 then.

1) You say Theo needs the ball more, via wildcat. Well, if the wildcat was good for the offense, don't you think BK would have ran it by now?

2) Obviously BK must be seeing something in practice that shows we can't get our playmakers in space, so why do you think ND should do that?

3) If BK eludes to it, why haven't we seen it? There must be a reason, right?

4) Why more Jonas Gray? Are you questioning BKs personnel? If BK only gives him 8 carries a game, there must be a reason for it, right? Perhaps Jonas can't handle 12 carries. How can you question the # of carries Jonas gets when BK is in charge of his carries?

Why isn't BK making the changes that you apparently think he should? He must be right, so I don't even know why you'd bring it up.

See how that sounds? We're asking for a different QB than one that throws 3 TOs per game and requires the rest of the team to play perfect, just to have a chance in the 4th quarter.

Maybe BK is wrong and should start Crist or Hendrix and he does make the change. Then, were we still wrong to call for it a week early?

1. I am not questioning the starting because BK started him, I am not questioning him because I have seen Dayne Crist play, and I don't like him. It's really that simple. Now, that kind of negates your whole argument. But I'll keep going.

2. I don't think BK wants Tommy throwing 40 passes a game. I think he hasn't had a choice because of the turnovers. I don't think BK is sitting in his office drawing up plays based on 3 turnovers.

3. Theo in the wildcat- Um. It worked fairly well last year for us, it was used to make up for the lack of a running game, but sure, maybe it is not a good fit?

4. There is always ways to get your playmakers in space. And, for a WR who is struggling to get open (Theo) running the offense, plays designed specifically for him are easier to grasp for the player.

5. I am sure there is a reason why Jonas Gray is not getting more then 8 carries a game...like he isn't comfortable in pass protection or something along those lines. But, you can have him set up with his own package, where he doesn't have to pass block, where he gets the ball 1-1 with a corner whom he can just bulldoze. Again, getting him the ball in space 3-4 times a game, which isn't difficult, may benefit the team.

6. It's not "if" BK eludes to it, he does, and it's been well documented. He plans on doing it in the middle of the season. He told Urban Meyer that the players are more then capable, and understand their packages. I don't think he wanted to try it against SF/UM/Pitt because of the game situation. I think now, that we have 2 "easy" games, we will see different looks from either Hendrix or Golson, so that they are comfortable, and get experience in game situations where a mistake won't cost the game. Timing is everything.

I don't think BK is happy with Rees, and wouldn't pick him from a long list of QB. But, I think Rees is the best ND has. Sure, Dayne may not have any turnovers a game, but he also won't score any points because he is so conservative. Tommy is a gunnslinger. He'll throw the ball regardless, you'll get a perfect drive one series, and a dud the next. But, he still will put points on the board, I do not think Dayne can do that.

I think BK has been spending practice time trying to correct the bone head mistakes his team makes (not just Rees), and trying to get the bread and butter to be executed, and does not have enough time to insert "gimmicky" plays. Now, I am willing to bet that BK see's what he's got, and has a chance, with Purdue and AF, to throw different looks in game situations because he can afford to do it, so that he is comfortable doing so against USC. ND is going to need the big play to beat USC, they are not going to beable to run their normal offense, and beat them. Especially since our secondary is going to have trouble with Woods and co.

Listen, we really agree on a lot of points. I do not think Tommy Rees is the QB of the future. I think he is the best that we have now. Tommy Rees reminds me of Brett Favre, he will throw 23 INTS but also throw 30 TD's, and put points on the board. Dayne will protect the ball, but at the same time won't move the ball as well as Tommy.--That is where we disagree

 

[sharksamardzija8345]

I have a hard time believing Rees is the best QB ND has.. I'm sorry, I just can't see an immobile pocket passer who turns it over 3 or 4 times a game in a spread offense who has the arm strength of a 10 year old as the best QB on our roster.. sorry, and maybe I'm wrong, but I just can't wrap my head around the idea that this is the best we can get from the QB position

 

[NankerPhelge]

Don't have a heck of lot to say these days. But when I read all this debate about the QB position, I just think back to a couple or three years ago reading this board. A lot of people weren't satisfied with Clausen, and there was quite a bit of talk about how we needed to get Crist in there right now, because he was the future. As a matter of fact, from quite a few of the posts, you would have thought that Crist was going to be the next coming of Christ (some even spelled his name like that, which used to crack me up. . . "Wait till Christ is leading this team, we'll be great!" Yeah, we should be if that were the case.

So, when I hear people screaming to get Golson in there right now, I just think of all the confident high expectations for an untried Crist. Man, do so many people actually think they are more perceptive and better coaches than Kelly and his staff?

 

[koonja]

1. I am not questioning the starting because BK started him, I am not questioning him because I have seen Dayne Crist play, and I don't like him. It's really that simple. Now, that kind of negates your whole argument. But I'll keep going.

2. I don't think BK wants Tommy throwing 40 passes a game. I think he hasn't had a choice because of the turnovers. I don't think BK is sitting in his office drawing up plays based on 3 turnovers.

3. Theo in the wildcat- Um. It worked fairly well last year for us, it was used to make up for the lack of a running game, but sure, maybe it is not a good fit?

4. There is always ways to get your playmakers in space. And, for a WR who is struggling to get open (Theo) running the offense, plays designed specifically for him are easier to grasp for the player.

5. I am sure there is a reason why Jonas Gray is not getting more then 8 carries a game...like he isn't comfortable in pass protection or something along those lines. But, you can have him set up with his own package, where he doesn't have to pass block, where he gets the ball 1-1 with a corner whom he can just bulldoze. Again, getting him the ball in space 3-4 times a game, which isn't difficult, may benefit the team.

6. It's not "if" BK eludes to it, he does, and it's been well documented. He plans on doing it in the middle of the season. He told Urban Meyer that the players are more then capable, and understand their packages. I don't think he wanted to try it against SF/UM/Pitt because of the game situation. I think now, that we have 2 "easy" games, we will see different looks from either Hendrix or Golson, so that they are comfortable, and get experience in game situations where a mistake won't cost the game. Timing is everything.

I don't think BK is happy with Rees, and wouldn't pick him from a long list of QB. But, I think Rees is the best ND has. Sure, Dayne may not have any turnovers a game, but he also won't score any points because he is so conservative. Tommy is a gunnslinger. He'll throw the ball regardless, you'll get a perfect drive one series, and a dud the next. But, he still will put points on the board, I do not think Dayne can do that.

I think BK has been spending practice time trying to correct the bone head mistakes his team makes (not just Rees), and trying to get the bread and butter to be executed, and does not have enough time to insert "gimmicky" plays. Now, I am willing to bet that BK see's what he's got, and has a chance, with Purdue and AF, to throw different looks in game situations because he can afford to do it, so that he is comfortable doing so against USC. ND is going to need the big play to beat USC, they are not going to beable to run their normal offense, and beat them. Especially since our secondary is going to have trouble with Woods and co.

Listen, we really agree on a lot of points. I do not think Tommy Rees is the QB of the future. I think he is the best that we have now. Tommy Rees reminds me of Brett Favre, he will throw 23 INTS but also throw 30 TD's, and put points on the board. Dayne will protect the ball, but at the same time won't move the ball as well as Tommy.--That is where we disagree

If you count last regular season and the games so far this year (excluding Tulsa and USF because both played), when Crist was our QB we put up 30+ points 5/9 games and with Tommy 2/7 games.

Also, this year's team is better than last year's, and that's where all 5 of Crist's 30+ point games came from.

I don't believe that our offense can't move the ball with Crist. He's not as accurate as Tommy, I agree with that. But he can run, and a running QB puts pressure on the defense who's trying to stop a spread offense.

If Pitt, who's dead last in passing defense can confuse Tommy so much, what do you think an average defense is going to do?

Teams are going to load up the box, stop the 5 yard passes and just wait it out until Tommy inevitably turns the ball over. And yes, it's basically quota at this point for Tommy to turn the ball over at least 2, probably 3 times per game.

At this point, I'll take my chances with a QB who can run, was the starter after a summer of practice, and has twice as many 30 point games as Tommy.

 

[pkt77242]

I have a hard time believing Rees is the best QB ND has.. I'm sorry, I just can't see an immobile pocket passer who turns it over 3 or 4 times a game in a spread offense who has the arm strength of a 10 year old as the best QB on our roster.. sorry, and maybe I'm wrong, but I just can't wrap my head around the idea that this is the best we can get from the QB position

Really 3-4 times a game? His career average isabout 2. Please try again.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I have a hard time believing Rees is the best QB ND has.. I'm sorry, I just can't see an immobile pocket passer who turns it over 3 or 4 times a game in a spread offense who has the arm strength of a 10 year old as the best QB on our roster.. sorry, and maybe I'm wrong, but I just can't wrap my head around the idea that this is the best we can get from the QB position

If athleticism was all that mattered for a QB, you'd be absolutely right. Rees is the least athletic QB we have by a country mile.

The mental aspect is more important though. Kelly only has one QB who can run his offense well in Golson, and he's not ready. The rest are pro-style left-overs from the Weis regime, and Tommy must have a better handle on the playbook than the other two.

 

[Irish Fam]

I think Rees is not as good a quarterback as Crist. I don't think he is a better quarterback than Golson or Hendrix. However, I'm very okay with the results with him at quarterback.

 

[sharksamardzija8345]

Really 3-4 times a game? His career average isabout 2. Please try again.

what's his average this year? there's my try

 

[koonja]

what's his average this year? there's my try

Last year, in 4 starts plus Tulsa game, he had 8 INTs (I don't know how many fumbles).

This year, in 3.5 games he has 9 TOs.

 

[sharksamardzija8345]

and I'm not advocating for Golson or Hendrix like I know they'll be better than Rees.. however, I'm not going to say they'd be worse either.. the thing is, none of us know (including Kelly) until we see them on the field in game situations.. you can be a practice all-star then suck on Saturdays, and on the flip side you can't be abysmal in practice but when the lights come on you can light it up.. I guess what I'm advocating is the idea that we find our future QB now, and in my personal opinion, if that QB is Rees our future is going to mirror our last 10 years

 

[pkt77242]

what's his average this year? there's my try

In 4 games he has 9 turnovers so that is 2.25. Not even close to 3-4. Please try again. You are entitled to your own opinion not your own facts.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

If you count last regular season and the games so far this year (excluding Tulsa and USF because both played), when Crist was our QB we put up 30+ points 5/9 games and with Tommy 2/7 games.

Also, this year's team is better than last year's, and that's where all 5 of Crist's 30+ point games came from.

I don't believe that our offense can't move the ball with Crist. He's not as accurate as Tommy, I agree with that. But he can run, and a running QB puts pressure on the defense who's trying to stop a spread offense.

If Pitt, who's dead last in passing defense can confuse Tommy so much, what do you think an average defense is going to do?

Teams are going to load up the box, stop the 5 yard passes and just wait it out until Tommy inevitably turns the ball over. And yes, it's basically quota at this point for Tommy to turn the ball over at least 2, probably 3 times per game.

At this point, I'll take my chances with a QB who can run, was the starter after a summer of practice, and has twice as many 30 point games as Tommy.

How much can Dayne even run at this point? He's got two reconstructed knees. I honestly dont know, I am not being a smart ***.

The Pitt defense is 1 game, he did fairly well against MSU/SF whom are not dead last in defense. But, I think you are right about teams loading the box/disguising coverages, that will throw Tommy off. Thats why I think we need to get packages for the other guys/ and set our play makers up for the big play (especially since running plays to get Riddick (example) the ball opposite of the double coverage on mike is a coverage-mismatch. Eventually, that will free Mike)

 

[sharksamardzija8345]

fair enough.. then I don't want my immobile pocket passing QB in the spread system who has the arm strength of a 10 year old to turn it over 2.25 times per game.

 

[koonja]

In 4 games he has 9 turnovers so that is 2.25. Not even close to 3-4. Please try again. You are entitled to your own opinion not your own facts.

Since we're in the business of correcting each other, it's actually 9 TOs in 3.5 games, which equates to 2.57.

He didn't start the season, remember?

 

[tommyIRISH23]

and I'm not advocating for Golson or Hendrix like I know they'll be better than Rees.. however, I'm not going to say they'd be worse either.. the thing is, none of us know (including Kelly) until we see them on the field in game situations.. you can be a practice all-star then suck on Saturdays, and on the flip side you can't be abysmal in practice but when the lights come on you can light it up.. I guess what I'm advocating is the idea that we find our future QB now, and in my personal opinion, if that QB is Rees our future is going to mirror our last 10 years

Our QB of the future isn't Rees. It's Everett Golson, but since he is only an 18 year old true freshman, he is not ready yet to lead the team

 

[koonja]

How much can Dayne even run at this point? He's got two reconstructed knees. I honestly dont know, I am not being a smart ***.

The Pitt defense is 1 game, he did fairly well against MSU/SF whom are not dead last in defense. But, I think you are right about teams loading the box/disguising coverages, that will throw Tommy off. Thats why I think we need to get packages for the other guys/ and set our play makers up for the big play (especially since running plays to get Riddick (example) the ball opposite of the double coverage on mike is a coverage-mismatch. Eventually, that will free Mike)

He looked pretty fast when he tried to run down the DB who returned Jonas's fumble 96 yards.

Little did he know, he was probably running for his 'life' as the starting QB.

If ND punches it in and goes up 7-0 on that beautiful drive, Crist settles in, nobody panics, BK doesn't turn purple and we have a different season IMO.

 

[sharksamardzija8345]

Our QB of the future isn't Rees. It's Everett Golson, but since he is only an 18 year old true freshman, he is not ready yet to lead the team

you don't know that until he gets in the game.. that's all I'm saying, I don't know that he IS, but on the other hand you don't know that he ISN'T.. he needs an opportunity to prove either case

 

[Whiskeyjack]

you don't know that until he gets in the game.. that's all I'm saying, I don't know that he IS, but on the other hand you don't know that he ISN'T.. he needs an opportunity to prove either case

I don't buy this theory that Kelly has to toss a freshman (Golson) or a RS freshman (Hendrix) into a game in order to "know what he's got". He knows what their completion % and TO margin is in practice. He knows how proficient they are at recognizing coverages in the film room.

If one of them was competitive in those categories, I'm sure he would have seen the field by now. Odds are that they're not competitive in those critical areas yet, and the chances that they're going to suddenly turn into a stone-cold gamer when you toss them in the pressure cooker are extremely slim.

 

[koonja]

I don't buy this theory that Kelly has to toss a freshman (Golson) or a RS freshman (Hendrix) into a game in order to "know what he's got". He knows what their completion % and TO margin is in practice. He knows how proficient they are at recognizing coverages.

If one of them was competitive in those categories, I'm sure he would have seen the field by now. Odds are that they're not competitive in those critical areas yet, and the chances that they're going to suddenly turn into a stone-cold gamer when you toss them in the pressure cooker are extremely slim.

Agreed. So we need Crist to be our savior.

 

[sharksamardzija8345]

I don't buy this theory that Kelly has to toss a freshman (Golson) or a RS freshman (Hendrix) into a game in order to "know what he's got". He knows what their completion % and TO margin is in practice. He knows how proficient they are at recognizing coverages.

If one of them was competitive in those categories, I'm sure he would have seen the field by now. Odds are that they're not competitive in those critical areas yet, and the chances that they're going to suddenly turn into a stone-cold gamer when you toss them in the pressure cooker are extremely slim.

extremely slim, agreed. but not impossible. all I'm saying is we give them a shot

 

[koonja]

The one thing I'm getting sick of is people and BK saying that Tommy is still learning and that he's a young QB.

Yes, he is young being only a sophomore, but there are red-shirt seniors that are starting for the first time this year, and he has over twice as much game experience as they do.

Are they still young and learning?

The window is short in CFB. You don't have 14 year careers like you do in the NFL. Tommy's in his second season in the system and he started 4 games last year. It's not like he's that inexperienced so I'm sick of that excuse.

His learning curve looks like a dead pulse right now.

I'm not saying Crist will come in and be head and shoulders better. However, with the expectations I had for this team, I'd rather give him another shot rather than live week to week hoping our defense can give us a chance to win against average teams, knowing Rees with have 2-3 TOs.

 

[PJWhitfield]

Man, do so many people actually think they are more perceptive and better coaches than Kelly and his staff?

I find I become the smartest man in the room after about four beers and three shots of whiskey. It also helps if everybody leaves the room.

 

[sharksamardzija8345]

^this

 

[Blue]

Why can't anyone be happy after a win? People expect their team to play a perfect game every week and when they don't they complain even if their team wins. I'll take an ugly win over a well played loss anytime. The Irish came from behind to beat a good team on the road you guys need to relax.

 

[BobD]

There isn't a perfect answer to our QB situation, but we gotta try something new.....anything. I'd rather be excited about the possibilities, than discouraged about our current abilities.

 

[PatsandBostonfan1975]

This what boards are for to vent, get excited , disapointed whatever. I love this board and love this team I read this board almost everyday . I thought this team was alot better and I couldn't even believe our loss at Michigan I felt like someone killed my dog or something in front of me. i don't post after loss like that cause all I feel is negative and I couldn't comment without swearing. This team is underachieving and something should be said between fans . Notre Dame is one most popular college football teams ever and we our playing very average football at best.

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

extremely slim, agreed. but not impossible. all I'm saying is we give them a shot

We got a COUPLE people on this board who get it.

 

[IrishinSyria]

The only thing I don't get is why did Kelly even bother making Crist the starter if he was going to give him such a slim margin: one half of inconsistent football was all it took for him to pull the plug on Crist. And after showing almost 0 confidence in the player Kelly had chosen as starter, he then goes on to tolerate some pretty terrible play by Rees, who is supposed to be a "game manager". If we're going to be getting inconsistent play from our QBs, I'd rather have it from a guy who can, at least on occasion, do this:


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/rI_I70F0XjI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[#1irishfan]

Do you mean the 3 TOs per game or the debate about who we want to start?

We should be happy about an ugly come from behind win against an average team just to get back to .500?

So we should celebrate mediocrity and pretend like we didn't have high expectations for this team?

so then I guess you are due an apology from the team for them not living up to your standards!!?

 

[IrishLax]

The only thing I don't get is why did Kelly even bother making Crist the starter if he was going to give him such a slim margin: one half of inconsistent football was all it took for him to pull the plug on Crist. And after showing almost 0 confidence in the player Kelly had chosen as starter, he then goes on to tolerate some pretty terrible play by Rees, who is supposed to be a "game manager". If we're going to be getting inconsistent play from our QBs, I'd rather have it from a guy who can, at least on occasion, do this: <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/rI_I70F0XjI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Such a good point.