Superconferences & Realignment

[Cali_domer]

I said that the Big 10 is a cleaner conference and you brought up OSU's recent debacle to prove that it wasn't. Exceptionmust=rule for you to have an argument there, unless you can name some other big 10 schools that have faced sanctions recently?

Michigan is on probation,they have there share of dirt, google it. **** the mother ****ing piece of **** big 10. Off to the ACC.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

I said that the Big 10 is a cleaner conference and you brought up OSU's recent debacle to prove that it wasn't. Exceptionmust=rule for you to have an argument there, unless you can name some other big 10 schools that have faced sanctions recently?

And you are saying that because FSU, Miami, and UNC had scandals we would be guilty by association when clearly that doesn't happen everywhere. Where is your argument for that?

 

[Rocket89]

And you are saying that because FSU, Miami, and UNC had scandals we would be guilty by association when clearly that doesn't happen everywhere. Where is your arguement for that?

Seems like it's the "people are going to make fun of us argument."

The B1G schools will make fun of us for joining a mostly southern conference with a more checkered history with violations.

Join the B1G, and the southerners will make fun of us too, for a whole variety of reasons.

ACC still is a better fit. People will hate on us no matter what.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

Nobody really cares about BC, Virginia, or Vanderbilt. People across the country care about ND. I just personally don't want to be playing in a conference that has had so many NCAA issues when the big 10 seems like such a perfect fit.

And Rocket, yes, I live in Wisconsin so I am bias about this!

I was merely pointing out that BC, UVA, VA Tech, and Vandy are not guilty by association as you claim we would be. Do you think people in New York and all along the east coast would continue to care about ND in 20 years if we were in the Big Ten? I believe we would lose a lot of the national brand over time. Obviously this is subject to much debate as ND has never had to think about this sort of thing in the past.

This is all of course just my opinion and you are welcome to yours. Those Badgers are clouding your judgement!

 

[PLACforever]

I really don't care if we join a conference or not as long as:

-We still are able to play Navy, USC, UM, MSU, Pitt and Purdue (in that order of importance) (Pitt and Purdue I wouldn't get too upset about losing off the sched.)

-I can still watch all of the games without having to go to satellite or get some crazy $$$ sports package through cable.

 

[koonja]

And you are saying that because FSU, Miami, and UNC had scandals we would be guilty by association when clearly that doesn't happen everywhere. Where is your arguement for that?

I should have said stained by association, not guilty. My bad. But you can't compare the integrity of the big 10 to the ACC.

And Michigan's trouble was nothing compared to the likes of Miami and North Carolina. Michigan had to practice less and was restricted like 2 assistant coaches. Big deal, nobody was getting paid.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Most of issues being debated in this thread right now are really not that important in the big scheme of things.

The ACC would allow ND to maintain and increase its influence in virtually all of its major markets. The B1G would do just the opposite; it would regionalize ND, thereby decreasing the brand's value tremendously.

Protecting the national brand and our major markets trumps all other considerations.

 

[IrishGiant]

Uhhhh how does staying independent "control our own destiny"???

Seriously?

 

[koonja]

Most of issues being debated in this thread right now are really not that important in the big scheme of things.

The ACC would allow ND to maintain and increase its influence in virtually all of its major markets. The B1G would do just the opposite; it would regionalize ND, thereby decreasing the brand's value tremendously.

Protecting the national brand and our major markets trumps all other considerations.

I'm not arguing with you, just looking for clarification. Are you talking about other sports?

And yes, I am bitter and bias because I want ND in the big 10. I live with so many badger fans and I would love to see that. I still think it'd be a great fit, I think the big 10 has more 'excitement' with it in playing Michigan, OSU, Negraska, and Wisconsin (who's on the rise big time) compared to FSU, Miami, and NC, but obviously I'm not calling the shots.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Seriously?

Yeah, seriously. Because this entire discussion is premised on the idea that superconferences will lead to a playoff, and ND will be frozen out of meaningful postseason play if we're not in one of those superconferences.

Remaining independent is obviously the top priority if possible, but it's looking less possible with each passing day.

 

[koonja]

Yeah, seriously. Because this entire discussion is premised on the idea that superconferences will lead to a playoff, and ND will be frozen out of meaningful postseason play if we're not in one of those superconferences.

Remaining independent is obviously the top priority if possible, but it's looking less possible with each passing day.

Since evolution is inevitable, can we add on a jumbotron while we're at it.

 

[FrankMA]

Most of issues being debated in this thread right now are really not that important in the big scheme of things.

The ACC would allow ND to maintain and increase its influence in virtually all of its major markets. The B1G would do just the opposite; it would regionalize ND, thereby decreasing the brand's value tremendously.

Protecting the national brand and our major markets trumps all other considerations.

I don’t believe that the BIG 10 would allow ND to keep its NBC football deal either because they hate ND. I think the ACC most likely would. That would be a major selling point for going to the ACC and protecting the national brand.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

The best thing about joining the Big Ten would be easy travel games to Northwestern, Purdue, OSU, IU, Illinois, and Michigan. Great game for bringing road fans. However the ACC is superior in every other way.

 

[koonja]

I don’t believe that the BIG 10 would allow ND to keep its NBC football deal either because they hate ND. I think the ACC most likely would. That would be a major selling point for going to the ACC and protecting the national brand.

Hate doesn't blind decision makers if money's involved. If ND could keep their contract and it benefited the big 10, they'd let them keep it. In 10 years from now there will be at least one team from every conference with their own network.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I'm not arguing with you, just looking for clarification. Are you talking about other sports?

The revenue sports are the main drivers, but the ACC is a better conference for ND's Olympic sports as well.

And yes, I am bitter and bias because I want ND in the big 10. I live with so many badger fans and I would love to see that. I still think it'd be a great fit, I think the big 10 has more 'excitement' with it in playing Michigan, OSU, Negraska, and Wisconsin (who's on the rise big time) compared to FSU, Miami, and NC, but obviously I'm not calling the shots.

I understand where you're coming from. But "excitement", "prestige", and "tradition" simply are not relevant factors in where we'll end up. It's purely business.

 

[koonja]

The revenue sports are the main drivers, but the ACC is a better conference for ND's Olympic sports as well.



I understand where you're coming from. But "excitement", "prestige", and "tradition" simply are not relevant factors in where we'll end up. It's purely business.

True, but aren't the more exciting games (Michigan, OSU, etc) going to generate more $ and improve business (that is, if you did believe that the big 10 games were going to be more 'exciting' than the ACC games)?

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

Pitt and Syracuse can't join the ACC until 2014. Would it be safe to assume that nothing would happen until then from our side?

If we went Big Ten they would probably want us to join right away and let us just run out the NBC deal correct?

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

@McMurphyCBS Brett McMurphy

Multiple Big East sources said they have been told by WVU officials that WVU rejected by ACC & SEC

They realized they offer no media market, no academics, and really the sports aren't amazing either.

 

[IrishGiant]

Yeah, seriously. Because this entire discussion is premised on the idea that superconferences will lead to a playoff, and ND will be frozen out of meaningful postseason play if we're not in one of those superconferences.

Remaining independent is obviously the top priority if possible, but it's looking less possible with each passing day.

Just because it seems like every school is jumping conferences and playing mercenary for the biggest bucks doesnt mean we have to. There's no guarantee there will ever be any type of playoff, and if there was I'm sure the indy's would have a playoff as well. Everyone needs to calm down, and stop believing all the mega conference propoganda that you must join to be relevant.


Regardless of what USC, Texas, Nebraska, Miami, Florida, Florida State, Michigan, and others think Notre Dame IS still the most popular college football team in the land. Notre Dame was ignored in it's early years when they attempted to join the Big Ten. So what did ND do? If you can't join em, beat em. By playing top teams all over the country (USC and ARMY) ND was able to spread the popularity of a tiny Catholic school in the midwest, into a national college football powerhouse, that could control it's own destiny. The national TV contract is a by product of Knute's efforts of a national stage for the Irish, and as long as we still receive TV $, and Bowl $, we can remain an independant indefinately. Remember, if you are in a conference yes you are guaranteed a cut of the conference Bowl $, and a cut of the TV $, but Notre Dame would lose $ as they don't have to share any $ with anyone, and can make their own schedule, and control their own destiny. Notre Dame is proud of their independant tradition, and the Catholic Church is very resistant to change. I don't see us joining any conference any time soon IMO.

BTW nice avatar Tim

 

[Whiskeyjack]

True, but aren't the more exciting games (Michigan, OSU, etc) going to generate more $ and improve business (that is, if you did believe that the big 10 games were going to be more 'exciting' than the ACC games)?

No, because the $ comes from huge multi-year TV deals. If they were negotiated on a game-by-game basis, maybe. But they're not.

 

[IrishGiant]

No, because the $ comes from huge multi-year TV deals. If they were negotiated on a game-by-game basis, maybe. But they're not.

Please don't give the networks any ideas.

 

[NDFan4Life]

Just because it seems like every school is jumping conferences and playing mercenary for the biggest bucks doesnt mean we have to. There's no guarantee there will ever be any type of playoff, and if there was I'm sure the indy's would have a playoff as well. Everyone needs to calm down, and stop believing all the mega conference propoganda that you must join to be relevant.


Regardless of what USC, Texas, Nebraska, Miami, Florida, Florida State, Michigan, and others think Notre Dame IS still the most popular college football team in the land. Notre Dame was ignored in it's early years when they attempted to join the Big Ten. So what did ND do? If you can't join em, beat em. By playing top teams all over the country (USC and ARMY) ND was able to spread the popularity of a tiny Catholic school in the midwest, into a national college football powerhouse, that could control it's own destiny. The national TV contract is a by product of Knute's efforts of a national stage for the Irish, and as long as we still receive TV $, and Bowl $, we can remain an independant indefinately. Remember, if you are in a conference yes you are guaranteed a cut of the conference Bowl $, and a cut of the TV $, but Notre Dame would lose $ as they don't have to share any $ with anyone, and can make their own schedule, and control their own destiny. Notre Dame is proud of their independant tradition, and the Catholic Church is very resistant to change. I don't see us joining any conference any time soon IMO.

BTW nice avatar Tim

This is all well and good, but what happens when there are 4 "super conferences"? The conferences will have the juice. An independent ND will probably be ignored for NC consideration. When that happens, you can either kiss independence good-bye or good-bye to football.

 

[phork]

Wasn't that long ago that most people around here were saying this was all done. I hate being right.

I always wanted ND in the B10, but the more I think about it, I like the ACC more and more. Frankly I didn't really see an option with the BigEast gone. But if this ACC stuff is true then we can tell the B10 to go pound salt, again.
Yes I am a bitter miser recalling the days of Yost et all who banished us from the conference and playing Michigan for a lot of years for reasons you can look up if you want. But one more big FU to the B10 would make my day.

The sad reality is that tradition is dead. If you thought it was still kicking I am sorry to break the news to you. I think everyone knew this day would come at some point, but you just didn't want to admit it. The tradition I mean is the old AP system voting, the bowl alliances etc etc.

As far as the NCAA goes I am sure they are crapping their pants right now wondering where they all fit in to this scenario. Because as you know the member schools can pull out whenever they want and the NCAA can't do a damn thing about it.

For those who feel that NDs independence should be held on to, that ship has passed. So unless you want in on the Mountain Conference West USA, or the Big Least (League Slogan: No one else wanted us so we are banding together the remnants of shattered bank statements to try and form some relevance), then saddling up at the ACC corral is the way to go.

 

[IrishGiant]

This is all well and good, but what happens when there are 4 "super conferences"? The conferences will have the juice. An independent ND will probably be ignored for NC consideration. When that happens, you can either kiss independence good-bye or good-bye to football.

Lets see where the chips fall before we jump into a pool without water. Believe me Notre Dame will be highly sought after, and won't be left on the outside looking in.

 

[koonja]

Wasn't that long ago that most people around here were saying this was all done. I hate being right.

I always wanted ND in the B10, but the more I think about it, I like the ACC more and more. Frankly I didn't really see an option with the BigEast gone. But if this ACC stuff is true then we can tell the B10 to go pound salt, again.
Yes I am a bitter miser recalling the days of Yost et all who banished us from the conference and playing Michigan for a lot of years for reasons you can look up if you want. But one more big FU to the B10 would make my day.

The sad reality is that tradition is dead. If you thought it was still kicking I am sorry to break the news to you. I think everyone knew this day would come at some point, but you just didn't want to admit it. The tradition I mean is the old AP system voting, the bowl alliances etc etc.

As far as the NCAA goes I am sure they are crapping their pants right now wondering where they all fit in to this scenario. Because as you know the member schools can pull out whenever they want and the NCAA can't do a damn thing about it.

For those who feel that NDs independence should be held on to, that ship has passed. So unless you want in on the Mountain Conference West USA, or the Big Least (League Slogan: No one else wanted us so we are banding together the remnants of shattered bank statements to try and form some relevance), then saddling up at the ACC corral is the way to go.

Ever since Ishaq was told he reminded someone of Lawrence Taylor and Ishaq's response was: "Who's that?", I no longer believe in tradition as a recruiting tool.

I know you weren't talking about recruiting, but this is what it made me think of.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

There's no guarantee there will ever be any type of playoff, and if there was I'm sure the indy's would have a playoff as well.

Superconferences are happening as we speak. The Big12 and the Big East are both imploding. Playoffs are inevitable once the superconferences form.

An "indy" championship will mean less than a MAC championship after realignment.

Everyone needs to calm down, and stop believing all the mega conference propoganda that you must join to be relevant.

Tell that to aTm, Texas, Oklahoma, Okie State, Pitt, Syracuse, and WVU. They're all just panicked over nothing, right?

Regardless of what USC, Texas, Nebraska, Miami, Florida, Florida State, Michigan, and others think Notre Dame IS still the most popular college football team in the land. Notre Dame was ignored in it's early years when they attempted to join the Big Ten. So what did ND do? If you can't join em, beat em. By playing top teams all over the country (USC and ARMY) ND was able to spread the popularity of a tiny Catholic school in the midwest, into a national college football powerhouse, that could control it's own destiny. The national TV contract is a by product of Knute's efforts of a national stage for the Irish, and as long as we still receive TV $, and Bowl $, we can remain an independant indefinately. Remember, if you are in a conference yes you are guaranteed a cut of the conference Bowl $, and a cut of the TV $, but Notre Dame would lose $ as they don't have to share any $ with anyone, and can make their own schedule, and control their own destiny. Notre Dame is proud of their independant tradition, and the Catholic Church is very resistant to change. I don't see us joining any conference any time soon IMO.

I'm well aware of the history. Tradition doesn't mean much in the face of billions of dollars of TV revenue. CFB is an industry, and the money is driving it in an inevitable direction.

BTW nice avatar Tim

Of course it's a nice avatar!

 

[NDFan4Life]

Lets see where the chips fall before we jump into a pool without water.

I don't think we have the luxury of waiting this out. Once the ACC or B1G fills up, we're on the outside looking in. It's inevitable, ND will join a conference in the very near future. I'm not happy about it, but the alternative is just as disturbing.

 

[koonja]

I feel like I'm preparing for the Armageddon.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Lets see where the chips fall before we jump into a pool without water. Believe me Notre Dame will be highly sought after, and won't be left on the outside looking in.

Waiting is a huge risk. The conferences aren't going beyond 16 teams. The ACC is currently at 14, and has 2 waiting in the wings with UConn and Rutgers. The ACC has essentially put them on hold to give ND and Texas a chance to join, but they won't wait forever. Once they hit 16, that avenue is forever closed, and we have less leverage than we did before.

As important as tradition is, the future is far more important. Dodds and Swarbrick aren't going to gamble here. They'll make sure that Texas and ND respectively have the best possible seats when the music stops; sadly, the independent seats aren't in play anymore.

 

[IrishGiant]

I feel like I'm preparing for the Armageddon.

Yep. So much for ever being able to watch Notre Dame live in the NYC area. What becomes of Army, Navy, and Air Force?